Hi FishMagnetism and Pisces Piggy--

I'm sorry to have taken so long to respond. I actually came back and read both your comments more than once. I was just overwhelmed and exhausted, and every time I tried to respond I found myself crying. And out of words.

I spent a lot of time over the past few days reading, researching, writing, thinking. I looked at his chart again--Cancer rising. I didn't know much about Cancer, so that was part of the research. And another aha! moment. I remember those claws very well. And what it felt like to be clutched in them--the good and the bad. I am, if anything, more independent than I was when I was with him the first time. (Which, I am guessing, might make me that much more appealing.) And I did a couples chart too, and the interpretation basically said, over and over again: WTF are you thinking? That gave me pause, but also made me laugh. It said, straight out: There is nothing easy about this pairing. To which I responded: You think that is news to me?

I also looked at stats about second marriages, and some stuff about the particular problem he is dealing with in his marriage. It's a big one, and really, the odds are not good that the marriage will survive. The take-away message, for me--and I know this sounds selfish, but: Time is on my side. I guess my handle is apt, too: Genuine Sag. Trouble in love? I do research.

And, I want to say that though I don't consider myself to be a believer, Fishmagnetism, I have been known to pray in moments of extreme need. I've used the idea you mentioned--in moments of longing and pain--of giving him over to somebody else to take care of, at least for the time being. It is surprisingly helpful.

I feel, at the moment, quite centered, and quite sure of what my response will be the next time he reaches out to me, which I'm sure he will. He's gone kind of quiet the last few days, which is a bit of a relief, as well as a bit of a worry. I won't claim that it will go exactly as I like--he has a way of countering what I say that shakes me up and makes me doubt myself. But I also feel a little bit more IN myself than I have in awhile now, and that has to be good.

I also want to thank you, PiscesPiggy, for saying that reconnecting with your Sag helped. Maybe I can help in some way, even if it doesn't seem like I am. It felt to me, before, like if I didn't give him exactly what he wanted, then I wasn't helping. Now it seems to me that I can still help, if only by staying true to myself, and perhaps modeling what that means. At any rate, I feel much more able to deal with him from a place of generosity and care.

The main thing is that I am more prepared to be patient with this, and to consider the value of friendship in these circumstances. I think one of the main differences between him and me is our ability to live with gray. I can live with gray--seek it out, even--in other areas of life, but in my personal life it drives me crazy. I see now that he his buried in gray, mired in gray. Maybe I need to learn to live with that a little bit, and to have a little bit more empathy for people who are in a different stage in their life.

I already know it is true that once he decides that someone is his princess, he will do almost anything for her. It is precisely the memory of that that is causing so much trouble here! But maybe it's worth detaching, yet remaining hopeful that I might end up being that again for him.

Like Miss Dubois, I am grateful for the kindness of strangers.

Best wishes to you both.

Hi Fishmagnetism (and anyone else)--

I know you've probably lost interest in my little drama, and I don't blame you. But I wanted to let you know that your words have been working on me today. And I had a total lightbulb moment this afternoon, when I realized that a bf I lived with for 4 years was also Pisces, and considered the cirumstances of that relationship, especially the ending.

I won't bore you with details, but suffice it to say that there is a real similarity b/t the role I played in that relationship, and the role the wife is playing in this one. I think that accounts for my sense that I "know" what she is doing. Add to that the guilt I feel over what I did to my bf when I played that role, along with the guilt I feel over Married Man's situation when we were in h.s. .... You see what I'm saying? There's some weird mirroring going on here. Beyond that, I think my Sag sense of injustice has gotten engaged. He is being hurt, and watching it is very difficult.

But this insight has helped me enormously. It's clear to me now that the drama is between those two, that there's no way for me to really help him. It's helped me to detach, to see his reaching out to me more as desperation than genuine interest, and to realize that he will be a long time recovering from this, if he ever separates from her at all.

The goal now is try to stay a supportive friend, and if I cannot, if my own emotions get engaged, I'll just have to tell him I cannot play that role either. Honestly, this just happened today, so I don't know how I'll feel in a few days or whatever, but the recognition of him as being in this position has freaked me out a little bit. It made me remember the sense of responsibility I always had for him, when we were involved and even afterward, and for second bf too. Both these guys got too heavy, eventually, and overwhelmed and exhausted me.

Maybe my past is past for a good reason, iow. I hope I can come to FEEL that as strongly as I believe it, at the moment. That still doesn't explain WHY I am apparently attracted to these types, though I haven't dated a Pisces since. Anyway, that's a question for another day. I just wanted to thank you for posting, and for giving me a place and a way to sort this out a little bit. Life is just hard sometimes, isn't it?

Thanks!

Hi FishMagnetism--

I hear what you're saying. I really do. Please don't think I haven't tried to put a stop to it. And you are spot-on in some ways: There are issues in my own life. I haven't been in a relationship in a long time; I struggle with chronic illness; I am disabled. My own vulnerabilities make it harder than it might normally be to walk away from this.

It is flattering and started out fun, and it is getting less fun and more messed-up. I've said more than once to him that we should wait to see one another until he is free, etc. I did it again last week. If you knew me, you'd know this situation is very uncharacteristic of me. At 44 years old, I've never been involved with a married man. Never even tempted: Who needs it? And being involved in someone else's marriage gives me the heebie-jeebies.

But when I said again last week that I wanted to forget it for now, I got back a long email in which he detailed what he is feeling, which is primarily confusion, though his description sounded to me a lot like depression and included the phrase "but don't worry, I'm not suicidal."

He may be manipulating me, but the fact remains that I have dealt with suicidal people before, and I am concerned. There are times when I think slamming the door on someone is the only right answer; with him, right now, I honestly don't think that is the right approach. He is in a really bad place, in all kinds of ways, his job; his ex-wife and son, too. And he owns guns, which scares the sh*t out of me. Not to inflate my own importance, but I worry that if I did really shut him out of my life at this moment, it might be just the thing that would tip him over the edge.

If you want to know the truth--and I cannot believe I am sharing this in a public forum, with people I don't know!--I found out a lot about what happened when we broke up all those years ago when we recently reconnected, and it turns out that he was being punished for being with me. He told me, for instance, that a black eye that I remembered--and that he told me then he had got in a fight with his brother--was actually the result of his father beating the crap out of him after his dad drove by my house and saw him there.

I didn't know then. I knew his parents were jerks, but I didn't know he was being hit, I didn't know he was suffering to be with me. And I did nothing to help. In fact, I perceived his distance as being about me, and I was a self-centered jerk and broke up with him. This time, he's letting me know he's suffering. Between the guilt over my failure to help the first time, and the still-loving him, I feel about as stuck as I've ever felt.

I believe that people have to make their own decisions and be responsible for their own choices. But I've also been in crisis, as he is now, and there have been people who helped me through that. I know what a difference it can make. And he is a very private person; he isn't going to talk to just anyone. I simply don't feel able to say: Go talk to somebody else. He absolutely has that exquisite Pisces sensitivity, and I cannot imagine how much that would hurt him.

There's a limit to how long I can deny my own needs, and if it turns out that this is just manipulation, I will figure that out eventually. But for the moment, I have to believe him when he says he needs me in his life, and try to help him as best I can.

Thanks for letting me talk.

Hi PiscesPiggy:

Since you're a Pisces male, and I am trying to figure out how to deal with one, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

Briefly: He and I were hs bf and gf. First loves. 25 years later, we meet up Facebook. He is on his second marriage, extremely unhappy. We started talking, which led to serious flirting (which he started, btw), which led to massive confusion, more on his part than mine. But his confusion is making me confused.

At this point, beyond my own confusion, I don't know how to help him or how to respond to his moods. My view of the situation is that his wife is manipulating him in the extreme--and that's just not my cattiness or my being selfish. Remember, we grew up a couple of blocks from each other. I know him, and I care about him--beyond my own needs.

I have largely refrained from giving my own view of the situation. I simply try to listen when he talks, which is becoming less frequent. So, that is my first question. Should I say what I think? Give him another viewpoint? Or just let him come to it on his own, if he will?

Second, big question is how to deal with him when he withdraws. Leave him alone? Just try to act my normal chatty silly self? I really don't know what he needs from me during these periods.

I appreciate any insight you can give. Thanks!

Hey, that's fine. Take as long as you need. I'm happy for any help.

He is: March 6, 1965. Born Los Angeles.

I am: December 3, 1964. Born 9:38 am, San Diego.

Btw, he was my hs bf, and we've reconnected after 25 years. We've been talking for about 6 months now. I don't know if that means we're in a relationship or not--in general (ha!), or for your purposes.

Thank you!!

Hey Aquabubbles--

I'm new on here. I posted a Sag/Pisces question, no responses yet. But I am really struggling, and would love a little guidance. If I give you the info, would you do us? I have all but his birth time.

Hi all--I'm new. First post. I call myself a genuine Sag because everything I've ever read about Sag seems to apply to me. (Can't give you the risings and all that; don't know it well enough yet.)

Anyway, recently hooked up via Facebook with hs bf. First love, for both of us. Also, seems to me, a genuine Pisces, according to what I've read. He is married, says unhappily. We've been mad e-flirting for months now, chat, etc., now planning for him to visit.

I hope y'all can hold off judging the married thing for a moment--remember I loved this boy many years ago--and help me figure out what is going on. One minute, he seems ready to leave her, the next he seems firmly married. It's a second marriage, it's really going badly, he seems absolutely miserable, yet absolutely stuck as well.

Is this apparent wishy-washiness part of the sign? He also seems scared of her, which I really don't get at all. I don't remember him being scared of me. I also don't understand why he seems so CONFUSED. From what he says to me, the situation seems absolutely clear. (I don't want to go into too much detail just in case someone might recognize this.) Can anybody offer any advice? I'd really appreciate it.