A Sagittarian trait?
I'm a Sag myself.
I was once in a r/s with a hopeless abusive man and even though things turned drastic and I was at my limit, I still held on for about a few more months until someone came and woke me up from this nightmare and said that I shouldn't go on like this anymore.
They knew it wasn't love but I was completely unaware of it for 2 years. Like I was under a spell?
For me, it was a sense of duty and I didn't realise yet that it wasn't love I was feeling. I realised this because at the ending of our r/s, the last 2 months, I would wonder to myself, why am I still with him?
He didn't seem to appeal to me anymore and I sometimes feel tired and disgusted by his actions and everything else.
I guess it was just a habit and duty to take care of him. I kept thinking of him being good to me and if I'm gone, what would happen? If I didn't think of the good things he did before, I would keep thinking about leaving. It was like I was forcing myself to stay even though I was unhappy.
It took me a good 6 months to figure out.
Even when a better man(Gemini) came by, I rejected him until 3 months later, and only realised that I care and love that Gemini but couldn't let go of the other man still in my life due to duty and no longer love.
Once i step into a r/s, it'll be hard for me to step out. I finally realised I didn't love him anymore(that Gemini helped me so much, he was there through my ups and downs, he respected my decision and was still there for me)
All in all, for Sag, yes we can tolerate through thick and thin, be it whether we are happy or not we can forego it anytime for others, even our own happiness.
But once we are over it and have moved on, we won't ever turn back.
Well, that is my point of view
I wonder if it has something to do with not wanting to feel like a failure at something you have invested a lot of time and effort into?
Yes, maybe Captain.AngstyV agree w u as well.been there done that.I think it was very brave of you to break off the abusive relationship...good for you!
Well said and absolutely true my fellow Sag's!
This totally hit home with me. I am a sag woman. I am married to a sag man. We have been together for the last 14 years. We have been married 6 of those years. We have 2 little boys (5 &2). We have been having issues lately, well actually the last 8 years I would say that there have been issues. The issues being that he is controlling, insecure, jealous, etc. Over the last 8 years when these issues would come up, we would get into heated arguments ending with me crying. I would talk to some of my friends and family about what was going on and they would tell me that I need to forgive and forget, because it is typical for guys to have those issues. So I followed their advise and I would forgive and forget, but then the same crap would start all over again, so it felt like it opens up old wounds. I have been just trying to deal with the issues, because other than those issues, he is a good guy, PLUS I didn’t want to have our relationship be a failed relationship. There is a huge part of me that wants to walk away because I feel like I deserve a man that will like me for me and let me be me. But there is a huge part of me that feels that there are people in worse situations than me and that I should stay because my situation is nothing compared to theirs. Plus I feel like a failure/coward for leaving. I do admit that at one time I was madly in love with this man, but after years of him being controlling, insecure and jealous, it has made me slowly fall out of love with him. Up until this last year, I was just dealing with it and just letting stuff slide down my back. But last year I could not take it anymore, so I confronted him and told him that I was leaving him. So I left him and went to stay with my parents. I was gone for about 3 months and I was feeling good about myself but all the while, I was thinking in the back of my head “why cant I feel this good when I am with him?” So, I decided to “try it again” and be a stronger person and stand up for myself. Well, the same stuff started happening again and I became unhappy yet again. After going back and forth 3 times, I feel like we have both slowly drifted apart from one another but yet neither one of us is willing to permanently get out of the marriage because neither of us as Sagittarians want to be the failure and give up. I have no idea what to do. I feel like I am staying to make everyone else happy, which is obviously not good. I am 30 years old. I do not want to be 40 and still in the same situation, yet I don’t know how to get over feeling like I have let the world (the world being family, friends, and my kids) down. I feel like I am stuck in a tug-o-war. I know that I really need to let go and move on…. It is easier said than done I guess…..
Sagi-girl, you are buying into that socio-religious pseudo-romantic rubbish that two people must stay together forever for them to be a success. Howevr, Universal law states that people come together to learn from and to teach each other and that, when that lesson is learned, they then must move on to find other teaching and learning situations. You wouldn't stay in the same class at school forever, would you, and consider that to be a success? Maybe you Sags live your lives too much by society's rules and not enough by your own truer inner rules? Maybe you should care less about how you appear to others and whether you are doing the right thing for you. Obviously feeling unhappy is a good way to tell if you are doing the right thing for yourself. In the end, if we don't look after ourselves, who will?
OK, here it goes, i have been reading and re- reading this thread over and over again...I may get blasted, but it won't be the first time...hehehe
OK you are talking about sags, right...I just shake my head because i can only tell you about my Sag and my mother who is a sag.
selfish,non committed about any thing...lets give an example ....what are your plans for Friday, ahhh i don't know that's too far in advance, its Wednesday lets just say...two days and you can't commit...did i say selfish...did i say they put their foot in their mouth constantly."OUCH"
As long as it benefits them then they will do something...If you have plans they take their time, but if they have plans they can be ready in 30 seconds..You start telling them about your day, then SLAM we are now talking about them...Perfectionist!
Be ready to go on the drop of a hat because they have the time!
.Its great to do some things for free, but to open your wallets, forget it! again unless it benefits them.Time, only when it suits them, they have no concept in time.insecure, always needing stroking like a child...
ME,ME,ME,ME "NEGATIVE" OK please don't shoot me hahaha..
Because I love my Sag man..
OK why I love him...Funny, OMG, funny, spiritual, helpful, "his way"..but helpful,Adventurist, A storyteller...playful..OK i will now await my lashings haha
Its a good thing I'm a Leo and I can ROARRRRRR....hehe
So now i'm even afraid to send this...
He is beginning to be a phone bug though, One extreme to another..YES,OH YES, us LEO's have issues only a few though.ROTFLMAO
Peace,Light,Love and Laughter
MyJourney...sorry to hear that you have had these negative experiences with the Sag people in your life.
I can only vouch for myself, my sister and my mother (who are both sag's also)
I don't see any selfishness in us at all with our time, help or caring...if anything it is quite the opposite in my experience. we give and give and make ourselves too available and will do what others want a lot of the time until we get fed up with it and decide that enough is enough...it's time to do what I want.
My bestfriend is a Leo and of course we mainly do what she wants to do because they like their mane stroked and to be the center of everything...but that is ok with me because I know that is how they are and don't mind going along for the ride.
I do have to agree with you about the planning and commitment to a plan...I did not learn that until I was in my 30's.
I don't really think that those are really sag traits (yes we are pretty laid back) in general.
I think you would have to check where their other planets are and that may give you a better outlook on why they are like that.
Maybe I'm wrong.......Sag's what is your take???
Hi sagiqueen, thanks for not lashing me...hehe..
My mom and my sag man are the only two I know...I know that US Leo's do need the stroking, but believe me I would rather be the one to give..
Its funny you asked about the other Planets, but that's totally foreign to me. I do know Sag has Leo as his Rising, i guess that could have something to do with his personality, like I said he has a beautiful quality about him...He has told me that he has been taken advantage of in the past, so maybe he has to trust again... Someone else told me just today the same as you had explained in your post...I believe we are all unique and that our pasts can affect us...no matter what sign we are.
Again thank you for posting to me, maybe I should be more open minded and not focus so much on the things i had mentioned. I just felt I needed to respond and say what i have seen. So I guess with the Leo side of him could be allot of what I responded to.(thinking now
Peace,Light,Love and Laughter
MyJourney, I wonder if your guy could be suffering from this Sag trait we have been discussing? Perhaps he lacks commitment to present-day situations and people because - if only in his mind - he is stuck in old relationships or circumstances that he can't let go of because of this deep antipathy to failure that Sags seem to have?
Captain, that got me...I had to figure out what antipathy definition was/is...I still am trying to understand, so I posted something from Wikipedia, that has to do with astrology..So being naive to all of this, maybe someone can talk my language and interpret this for me:(
In astrology, antipathy is speculated to be the conflict in the natal horoscopes of two people who feel an aversion to each other. This relates to the concept of synastry, which means that according to astrologists beliefs, two person's horoscopes can be compared to see how compatible or incompatible they are likely to be towards each other.
Astrologic belief claims the following: The karmic implications of antipathy can explain why people fall in love, marry, fall out of love, and then divorce. Because they have agreed to meet up in this life to resolve a karmic or dharmic issue, they must initially be attracted to one another, so there will inevitably be correlations in the horoscope that will cause them to be attracted to one another. For those individuals who fall in love and want to marry, there must be strong stabilising influences in the comparison of the chart to indicate they would like to have a stable relationship with some permanence in it. As the relationship progresses, other facets of their personality will manifest though aspects, and it is these aspects will determine the success or failure of the relationship.
No I didn't mean 'anitpathy' in an astrological sense, just meaning a 'dislike' or 'aversion to'.
Wow, I've just found this thread, I've not been on the forums for a while now......and just for THIS reason, I'm a Sag and just ended a relationship, it took me over a year to finally find the courage to end it, it took me to getting very close to a nervous breakdown and it causing me to feel physically ill before I did it though.....the reason I hung on to this "friendship/relationship" was because I hated hurting him so much, I've never had to do this to anyone before, I always stayed in toxic relationships and preferring the other "to end it"....this time it was me that needed to learn the lesson!! and not to stay with anyone who "holds me back" and I carried on for almost a year with my head buried in the sand and trying to convince myself I would be ok with it and just seeing him now and again, but sadly even that got to much, he is a very emotionally needy man.....So, the Universe (higher self) had other ideas, hence me getting to feel I was going to have a breakdown and feel very ill in order to end it, yes it has been one of the most difficult things I have had to do because he is such a good hearted man!!....but not the man for me ....so, I feel totally free at last, I'm spending my time now picking myself up from feeling ill and looking forward to spending time manifesting a way to live the life of what I came here to do, and I certainly feel comfortable being in my own company
Dead on!...lol..Although im only 28, that character lived in me up until my last guy (libra) that just hurt me too the core. Ive left my past in the past and i havent ever looked back. I keep myself so busy with positive things for myself, like school, gym, and positive affirmations. The only thing as a saggie that I do differently from the rest of the saggies, is that when im done, IM DONE!!!!! i wouldnt even speak to you if I saw you in public. Who cares what you think? You had your chance!! I tell any guy that Ive been with and it dosent work to lose my number. ( which obviously to the losers i date sounds like a plea for them to keep bothering me..ugghh!!) I finally just stop answering the phone or just block there numbers. This could be because my moon is in scorpio?? i would rather everything to dissapear or ill remove myself from the situation so that you wont ever hear from me again..EVER!! lol...def. scorpio. Ive been single now for a year, and im finally ok with this. When I am interested in guys its usually the ones that are grounded (cappys, virgo, and taurus). I know all boring but i love there responsible, dominant character:)...i like a cappy now (dec. 31, 1980) and myself (nov. 24, 1981). He teaches me patience and i HATE IT!!! but i need it in my life...I wonder if we even go together?? i still love him though and as long as he knows it im ok with that.
Glad I could finally hear from fellow saggies!!!
My father was a sag. Extremely intelligent and creative totally non committal and my mom and he fought violently thru my childhood and that gave him permission in his mind to leave for days weeks months....As a wee one I just couldn't understand how he could leave us littleuns w/ an angry woman as she turned her anger at him onto us when he left. But as I got older I understood having a family was not a wise decision for him. He did always come back tho. I'm not sure why out of guilt or just a sense of familiarity. I never understood their relationship. They both played the victim card. In his mind he was not abandoning us but escaping. He did not know the violence continued when he left. Often he was the one in tears during their battles. He was too sensitive for this world. Rather reclusive in later years. He would not be able to cope w/ certain life challenges and would just disappear...to return later.
The really great thing about my dad was his love for creatures. He had a huge heart that way. I have many fond memories of him sneaking kittens in under his jacket so my mom wouldn't see. She was not an animal lover.
Plus when things got bad (my daughter got sick I divorced her father etc) he was the one who did the reassuring. Supported me and believed in me even tho he couldn't understand some of my choices.
Since he is the only sag I can speak of I do believe that certain characteristics like distancing etc have to do w/ being highly over sensitive and a coping skill. Not necessarily a negative thing.
(Hey SHINY, is your name from the Firefly series? I LOVED that show, and the Serenity movie!!)
Captain, this thread has been all over the map, and I'm not sure I can actually answer your original question (why), but I can offer another scenario that further confirms your observations.
I met and started dating a Sag shortly after my divorce became final in 2006. Having come from a marriage to a Virgo (very suppressive individual, ultimately not a good match for my natural Gemini tendencies), I was drawn to this man's "just want everything/everyone to be joyous" attitude, which was such a release after a good part of 22 years of spiritual confinement. I was also taken by his boyish curiosity, his constant quest for knowledge of all things, and his ability to idealize most everything. The consummate optimist, it was mostly a happy and heady experience being with him. But the ideals he so charismatically described to me (the details of how our lives COULD be together) did not and probably never will come to pass, as these seem to exist only in his "perfect world" mind. And what's that you say about making plans? If my schedule didn't work with his, he would go ahead and do his thing, regardless of my feelings, never thinking past the fun of the moment and his own happiness/fulfillment/joy. These natural tendencies are perceived by me and most other folks as SELFISH, although the Sag's mind, when forced to consider the matter, never seems to arrive at that conclusion. And when he presents his side of the argument, the thought process actually begins to sound logical - in his favor! Maddening! What I have come to see consistently, though, is that his on-going search for joy for joy's sake means forsaking day-to-day responsibilities in the hopes of achieving the ultimate high - play now, explain/apologize later. Often this equates to rarely setting goals, which could relate to what a lot of Sag's are saying about their fear of being hurt or hurt again, personally or professionally - if you don't set the goal, you can't fail in your efforts to achieve the goal; no failure, no disappointment/sadness/hurt.
But why do Sag's so often get hurt? As with most Sag's I've known, mine has a truly sweet and innocent nature, and all who know him say that he is the dearest of men - loyal to the core - and that they would do anything for him because he would give them the shirt off his back. These same people, though, truly wish that he WOULDN'T give them the shirt of his back, because they know that sometimes it's foolish to do so. They see him as TOO trusting and TOO giving, to the point that others take advantage of him, over and over. They watch him remain doggedly loyal to people who hang on to him for his "fun" factor in the good times, and then they see how deeply wounded he becomes when he realizes these same people aren't willing to stand by him in the difficult times. And after much consoling and offering what they believe to be the wise counsel he needs to finally get better at life, they watch again (with hands thrown in the air and heads shaking in utter disbelief) as their sweet Sag reaches out to the very same hangers-on, with genuine sincerity, to be sure that THEY will be okay! Ultimately, his friends and I see him as a child for whom we care deeply but who never seems to want to grow up and learn life's lessons - a true Peter Pan in every sense. And as much as Never-Never Land is a wonderful place to visit, most of us know that we must, at some point, go home and get a real life. It's sad and sobering, but it's reality.
I don't know why Sag's do what they do, but I hope your quest produces some answers because I love my Sag men. I had boyfriends through high school and college who were Sag's and my current business partner is a Sag (a day-to-day mix of creative bliss and frustration for his inconsistent dependability - not sure how long it will last). For all the frustrations they carry with them, I seem to be hopelessly drawn to them, and maybe that's because some of MY life's lessons are to be learned through my experiences with them. But I have a son who is a Sag (a musician - yikes!) and I so dearly want him to have a fruitful and fulfilling life, free from the painful episodes most of the Sag's I know (and have known) have been through. The good thing is my son knows about his natural tendencies, understands that some may not be to his benefit, and is open to learning as much as he can to avoid what so often become Sagittarius land mines.
As much as we who love them know that we can never change a Sag (and a Sag would HATE us for trying to!), it would be great to learn to more effectively speak their language (communication is the key to understanding!). A mind bending topic, to be sure, Captain, but I look forward to your future enlightenment!
Thank you, I am lost for words, which doesn't happen to often!
Beautifully, written post.
The statements of what you wrote especially the part below helped me to understand something I just couldn't put my finger on. My Sag has opened my world with more child like qualities that I never had, even as a child.
"Ultimately, his friends and I see him as a child for whom we care deeply but who never seems to want to grow up and learn life's lessons - a true Peter Pan in every sense. And as much as Never-Never Land is a wonderful place to visit, most of us know that we must, at some point, go home and get a real life. It's sad and sobering, but it's reality."
Peace,Light and Love
Pfree, the description of your father is a perfect description of my Sag, as well. I didn't want to reveal too much of his personal details, but now I see how helpful that might be...
He told me when we met that he knew the day of his wedding that he probably shouldn't ever get married. He went ahead with the marriage (the "fun" was already paid for) and ended up having the same kind of relationship as your folks did. He has a great command of language and has the ability to quite rapidly shred anyone in an argument, and he admits that he did so frequently with his spouse. I think this stems from his learning at a young age to protect/defend himself from possible hurt. He said most of his (24?) years of marriage were comprised of arguments and finding avenues of escape, mostly in work, where he was able to create scenarios that handily kept him away from home. His children took his absences personally. And while he was miserable for years, he hung on, I believe out of guilt for not being able to "do" it right. He would probably still be unhappily married today had it not been for his spouse serving him with divorce papers.
He is a lover of animals and the first one to cry about something touching or sad. He has become reclusive, and although he can easily blame that on economic hard times, I believe he prefers it to cohabiting so he can avoid the associated responsibilities. And yet he seems to long for true intimacy...
Shinyluv, I wonder why you choose dominant partners with acutely different temperaments to you. Sags with your profile tend to rebel against authority so there will probably be a lot of conflict in your relationship with the Cappy man. Maybe Sags are subconsciously trying to deal with their issues by choosing partners who are the epitome of what they fear most?
Also Sags have this big yearning for freedom but, depending on how much guilt or duty has been instilled in them, they either flee to find it or force themselves to remain and do without it - at a huge cost either way. They either fight their own natures or give into them.
I think what this discussion has revealed is that Sags tend to idealise people and situations and then get disappointed and heart-broken because nothing and no one can ever be as true as their visions of absolute perfection.
I think it's good for Sags to read here how other people see them. It might help with their perspective on life.