ASCLAC part 4

  • What a weekend. we went to a performance and when we met up he was wearing his 'ladykiller' shirt, and from what i'd heard so far, was interested in the female half of the performance who was said performer's "protegee".

    I prepared myself for an uncertain evening, not wanting to ruin anything (after all, the performer was an old friend from college days) and just enjoy the show. He did put an arm around me, but his legs were really splayed out in typical "macho" fashion, and angled towards the female, who was a rather young blonde in a fantastic costume. To his credit he introduced me to a counselor who had helped him back then, saying aloud that she 'was the really level-headed woman who helped the band'...I listened and commented politely, feeling I could handle this kind of relationship. But even as he went up the performers after that with his arm around me, he told the girl, "I know the power of a woman!!" like he wanted to 'look good' to her. It didn't help that he took the first op to leave me by the coats and shoes to go up to her again, and talk to her more intimately. Naturally, that stung--so I went outside by myself. I told him "If you can introduce me to that counselor, why can't you do the same thing you did, with this performer?" He then took me to her, and she had a funny look on her face as we were introduced.


  • It's hard. When i think of all the things that have happened since he proposed to me, and even before that--the presumptuous 'intimacy', the switching back and forth of seems like nothing, even with the 'best of intentions' has changed. I get the feeling that to him it's a matter of 'since i am doing ___ out in the open, it's okay' feels like a no-win situation. I try to leave and explain my reasons, and then suddenly he is back to being thoughtful--but then the usual behavior begins again. Do my feelings matter that little? I feel like i am being 'gaslighted', like "if you don't accept what I do, you're selfish, crazy, etc." He hasn't removed his 'it's complicated' status from 'engaged' and this is from someone who accused me of exposing our complicated relationship publicly. If I mentioned that, I'm sure I'd hear an excuse for that--like showing others what our relationship has become is only his right. And only his version of it. He claimed our friend and I and him would go to future performances together, as she really is my friend. But she told me --and he denied--an invitation to go to the park to see it. It's like he wants to compartmentalize his relationship with her, keep us separate, and do his usual "poor me" routine to keep things the way he wants it.

  • well, he got a ride arranged but no schedule whatsoever. and he got up to blog much earlier than he usually does when getting ready for work. so between then and when he had to go to work (6 hours) i don't know what happened. it hurts. if he went ahead without me while telling me he got a ride for "us" i'm afraid that would be a deal breaker for me. no feedback from her, either. she 'disappears' on the social networking site we are all on when i appear.

    he texted "I love you!!" while not responding to my msg (i'd sent one to help him see what worked for me about this issue, and of course thanked him for his efforts, to say the least) and i know from experience these 'declarations' usually happen in desperate situations. so i'm afraid he just went ahead without me, and she doesn't want me to know that, either.

  • Wow...i didn't realize being more proactive could result in success--i was afraid of 'rocking the boat' since my past efforts seemed to yield more problems, especially if i couldn't tell what moods different parties were in. I went back to the very first time we met and how that touching just confused things as far as being told we were just friends...that was so difficult, because i was torn between expressing how it affected me, and 'expecting too much'--an awkward combo indeed. i let him know it was a matter of describing my physical experience and that if it made me wonder how he made friends that way, especially if we wound up doing more together after that when we became more than friends. he was glad i added 'no offense, just being honest'...but i think the fact he texted 'no offense' was because that was his primary sore point about the issue. but knowing a hole in my heart was there at the time--and likewise with this friend--it helped to make the issue clearer how difficult it could be. before that, he was overjoyed i accepted the group outing, but i couldn't tell if it was because he had more access that way <lol>...but i am not going to lie about how that affects me either. he added he'd learned a lot, changed, grown since then--i had to wait a bit before responding, because even so there had been plenty he hadn't since that was more meaningful when i texted i was thankful for him...less offensive or patronizing than 'relieved' or even 'thank you for that'.</lol>

  • now i need to help him see what works for me with this outing...he had to work but was happy to arrange it for us tomorrow eve. well, not exactly what i had been saying i wanted, nor told her, so i had to text him back how more meaningful that was for me. i mean, why not do this with all three of us? i think he's afraid he won't be able to handle it, or thinks it won't mean anything if he goes with her without me. uh, just the opposite. it was all those 'don't ask don't tell' situations that made it just frustrating to me--being left out and 'supposed' to know what was happening.

  • interesting how things have developed...he's let me know his schedule for tomorrow; still wants me out there with him as much as possible. interesting to see his comment on performance site mentioned wanted to bring his friend (name of mutual friend), but suddenly 'disappeared'. it's hard when you don't know why things happen...

  • posting this stuff has been a good outlet for any odd things that pop up! now it's more about my "schedule" for work getting in the way <lol>, but that's life.</lol>

  • what a day!! it turned out i had to wait hours before i knew i wouldn't be called in to work Sunday, because the supposed schedule never got i felt stuck at home while my fiance was at work. i was a little concerned, because the performance was just on the 'hairline' of when he got off work, and suddenly she was on her way out via a buddy of his. was it possible he didn't care whether i could join them or not? that would have hurt a lot, since we had decided it was best to be able to do this together. well, she was surprised she didn't know about me being at home, and didn't even know about him joining us one way or the other. i texted him if he was going to go with his buddy; he claimed he was on his way home. i called him on his landline to make sure he really was at home; he said he couldn't chat w me on his computer because it was 'down'. but lo and behold, he was suddenly on and even she was online with the networking site! i got an idea to chat w him first, and when he said "pls lemme get off, i want to fume and do stuff" i took the op to chat w her. she and i had a nice chat that included she didnt' go and even got into talking about her ex's behavior (would u believe she posted about that, and that she couldn't be outgoing because he thought she was cheating on him? ugh. so i mentioned my first ex, and how he cheated on me after that (that was what happened to her aftewards too). well, suddenly, she had to get off, and it was back to my fiance and her going to chat. boy, it is hard to know what is going on when that happens, and i want to think nothing but the best between them...but when u have got a guy who loves to flirt, and a woman who is heartbroken and longs to 'play again' what do u do?

  • interesting...the morning after i stayed over he suddenly wanted to know--in fact, insist--what the ringing of my cellphone was about. huh? "show me what number that was; just give me the number..." it was a work number i'm not crazy about and left to voicemail--but why did he keep telling me to give it to him? ditto the 'lookover' while i checked my e-mail the night before. it makes me wonder if the messages i'd exchanged with our friend encouraged that curiosity; i mean we shared chat about our exes and what had led them to cheat (like her ex winding up cheating on her after being worried about her cheating on him!)...was he considering what i might be driven to do if i was likewise frustrated? sort of flattering, but gee--i know who i want...him!! if i really wanted someone else he wouldn't even be in my mind so much each day!

  • the other day, she shared photos of her with a guy she considered a friend--cheek to cheek after dancing together. sweet, i thought, but i would hope he doesn't have a girlfriend who minds that, or at least knows she would. the photos disappeared not long after i did a "like" on them for neutral reasons--hey, i can't assume anything, right? But if my partner saw them, it might be a 'wake up call' that she doesn't necessarily 'friend' just him and i at least i know that's an achilles heel for him--he's told me about that from his last experience with a girl who loved to flirt (he decided he couldn't handle that and that's where his no-involvement policy for 22 years came in, before he met me).

    if anything, it's about facing up to the truth and just telling it like it is--not rationalizations to get what he wants without considering what i have to go thru.

  • now back to the stupid work schedule thing--was 'asked' to head out of town at the last minute, and since i wouldn't get paid til May (anything i made wouldn't arrive to pay the rent!) i had to 'suggest' others who could do that--certainly not the dozen in this pickle who were mysteriously exempt from guilt for not wanting to do their usual shifts!

    well, now that i have more time, it's interesting how it is 'filled'. sort of alternating between my own time and his...but it has to be worth it. got a surprising message the other night while i was on computer; i didn't respond much before that. he tried to record frogs 'calling for their queen' (i got a frog hat for my birthday in late january) that was sweet! no wonder i get so mixed up inside about staying or going...sometimes it's just so unpredictable what happens that makes me feel good again.

  • had a somewhat awful weekend. i spent time with him for a few days after getting my finances in order, and just when i had the op to join him in an event we could share, the forecast said rain on a night we would have to camp out (his landlord won't let me sleep in more than two nights a week).

    now he's going with yet another "female friend" instead. she has a car, so he's getting a ride from her. i had to go home, and wouldn't have the means to go back to where he lives at this point.

  • so here i am out here again, though i hesitated in the morning and texted him that. his response was like it was just my problem--i can understand that if it was just in my head. well, as we were on our way down the street to the laundromat (why would i choose to do a chore he could do himself unless the company was worth it?), the flirting started if i shouldn't feel anything when it happened. I thought "what difference does it make whether i am out here or not, when the same thing keeps happening again, or does he want me out here because i sleep with him after this happens?" and told him "can i go home?" he said "yes, but you don't really want to go home..." and started touching me. so when we were sitting inside the laundromat i thought of how he'd started talking wistfully about our female friend's "troubled mood" on the networking site, and said "did i tell you she used to have an ex who was a masseur, and when he was touching women it was Hell for her...she dreaded going home with him, and wondered why he wanted to sleep with her because he made her feel less and less..."

    it must have gotten through to him somehow, because he got sober and said "even if women and men are different (a point i'd brought up before), we can still try to understand..."

    i hope that made a difference!!

  • Funny how things happen over that the former flame is out of the picture as far as the new social life my fiance and i share, a brief "like" on my new friend's wall brought out an odd reaction from the flame--who didn't return my e-mails (in the interest of civility, at least) since the end of last year. now she suddenly feels she has a 'right' to know what my comments on my friend's wall are...uh, what does that have to do with her? she seems to need to be a part of anything good happening in my life (when it does, of course, but that's usually because of some obstacle) but i don't 'owe' her anything in that department. i decided to ignore like she's ignored me--because she seems to think people are there just to serve her interests. (that happened last year with two of her "friends"--sweet women who were probably just pawns in her social game...not to mention my fiance, who felt he had to cave into her pressures to put me down. if anything, she could have exercised some empathy for my confusing situation, but she probably needed to 'have it all' and to hell with others' individual situations).

  • p.s. she suggested our new friend to him; guess she has to 'own' that too!!

  • what a day...the old flame actually tried to contact me with a message. gee, maybe that's what i get for unblocking her on the networking site, but with no sign of what she does there that's all i have to go on. last night intense before this; he got up and told me i wasn't 'serious enough' for him but that is exactly what got our relationship off to a bad start--too much listening to his negativity, with no efforts to do anything about it. I let him know it was the problem if i couldn't just be myself without having to feel "bad" about not going along with that kind of energy.

  • one of the probs with him not doing anything about his complaints is that i couldn't suggest anything, either or i would be 'telling him what to do'. But i couldn't be my healthy self either or i would be 'not understanding' or 'not supporting' his pain. that pain is "universal" but boy has it taken a personal toll...not just me, but himself as well. (example: "i care about the planet..." well, so do i and the people in it, too. i'm certainly not indifferent (is anyone who truly lives in it?) but i know i can't 'save' it, either. that's just absurd--i can do my part but i can't 'save' it or everyone---yes, i know that is a lot, but he really believes he has a mission to 'save everyone', but what do you say to someone like that? only that he neglects who's nearby or that it is a little hard to see if he doesn't want to save himself? a guy in a group we went to actually told him he was hardly an example; that it was hypocritical...but that didn't stop him).

    Getting back to the flame...she appears friendly, but i know from past experience that can be misleading. sure, i'd love to be able to trust her but knowing what she has done with others, how can i without fearing i'm doing something foolhardy? the fact that i can't just say i know what has happened is a red flag...

  • ditto for fiance--i can't just tell it like it is; ironically he lets her say whatever she wants, no matter how nasty, even to him. it's like special categories for "special" people...especially if they are popular or pretty. and i guess it doesn't help that he alternates between bragging how attractive he is to 'the ladies' and then cries to me that he is masochist who 'can't love' himself. i see the contrast between what he says and what he does...

    i'd just be told "nobody's perfect" even if i am not allowed even a mistake. or hurt feelings. or being able to take care of myself, because 'someone' (him? her?) would be 'left out ' if i did that.

    last night, he said "well, if nothing i do (!?) is good enough for you, then maybe you'd better leave..'

    I knew from previous times it was often a hollow threat, a bluff...he came back and gave me one of those 'sad' looks...and said "i guess we'd better put out the camping stuff again'.

    no wonder i don't know what to do or say.

  • it's been i feel a little achy and don't know if it's time to just go home. we sat on the bench at lunchtime and he told me he 'had an epiphany' about our relationship--that since we were both sensitive people it was worth it to go through any pain. well, sometimes that is hard to gage <lol>if it gets to be too much for me!! i'd gone to the library to take a breather from all this stuff from the other day, not to mention this morning. of all things, a woman on the networking site he'd suggested to me showed up requesting me...huh? no sign of his suggestion with that, either. at the time we had visited her at their friend's house, he went through the whole 'courtly admirer' thing and i made my discomfort shown. so i felt a little sorry for this woman...and accepted her request. well, if anything i can be honest with her about whatever this is about. i don't know what the weather will be like tonight with the camping out thing, but if anything he wants to spend more time with's hard to know where to draw the line with all this.</lol>

  • i'm back again. whew!! always feels like 'jet lag' when i return. visited parents for awhile; not easy at times when i have to deal with their own problems--which can get projected onto me. but i got texts that helped me feel good again while i was there. now i know those plans for yet another get-together are ongoing; no word yet if it will happen but i appreciate the feedback. it can be rough feeling confident when it's not so much about "them" but about him. nice people, confusing interactions. perhaps i just hate how much his problems can mess up my relationships with other people.

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