Hans - my latest quandary



  • Hi Hans, When last we "spoke" I was at a crossroads with two men and my job was in uncertainty. On the job front I "stayed true" just as you suggested and things continue to work out. There is no less uncertainty than there was before, but I accept that I am doing the best I can and let that suffice. I try to stay "relaxed".

    On the relationship front, you told me that one of these men waited across the water and the other was confused, but the short answer was that they both wanted to possess me. (This is not the same as love and respect me, and time has shown that this is, indeed, more about ownership.) So I believe that the confused one is still confused, however, I think that he recognizes that it is more his confusion than anything to do with me or that I can fix. On the surface it seems that we remain friendly and will continue in friendship, although, I do suspect that he still hopes to bring me round to his way of thinking eventually. But I don't feel the same, and hope that we can just let things be.

    Now, the other man, the source of my endless consternation and inquiries to you, has admitted that he wants me all to himself as well (in spite of the fact that he is caged by his marriage). I've kept pushing him to figure out what he wants because, as hard as I try, the uncertainties in dealing with him pull my mind out of the present and the struggle to control my ego in it all makes me weary. I appreciate that I shouldn't let all that affect me, consider that a work in progress. Meanwhile I felt that we both needed to evaluate what we are doing together.

    So, in my last conversation with him (a couple weeks ago now) he actually came to the realization that the consequences of our involvement is that he is asking me to "live" in a cage since he can not "give me what I deserve" in a relationship...at this time (his favorite line is "at this time", always implying a hazy future). It is as if he is saying, "Jenever, I want you to just hang out in that cage until I get my life all sorted out and then I'll come get you". Indeed, I told him that is my whole issue. I don't have to be in anyone's cage and that what I really feel is that I am hanging out in he AND his wife's cage. There is, ultimately, one big cage in this scenario and it is created by he and his wife. If he were free from his marriage I might be still be in a cage with him, but I believe then it would be by choice. I would want to be there, and in that choice (in theory) I would not feel like a prisoner. "Choice" isn't even the right word really, we would just "be". Anyway, this current cage is imposed and I see no reason why I should be there. Other than, my staying there is what seems to give him assurance that I am still with him in this. That I haven't left him yet.

    So, we acknowledge that he has me in an emotional cage and the next thing he says is, "you are very important to me, but at the risk of hurting you", he said, "I can't live without seeing my children everyday, they are my reason for existence and so, there is no way I can leave my marriage at this time". Then in the next breath, "but then again, it's possible that I am finding the fullfillment I lack in my marriage through my kids". Then, "I don't know what it would be like to be in a relationship that was actually supportive and encouraging". Then he brought the subject back to me again and actually said that he looks to me to live my life by high standards. "How", he asked, "am I ever supposed to do better if you don't live your life in a good way". Huh? By that point my head was in utter confusion. The points he was making all started to feel like contradictions to each other.

    So Hans, my response at this time is to turn inward. Or at least "try" and then "yes" I recognize that I shouldn't need to "try" I should just exist in my "inward" state. My concern is that if I continue to just withdraw inward that he is going to interpret that as alienation. My goal is to relieve myself of all my ego-based contemplation that goes with dealing with him, so there is no good way to go but inward. But I imagine that his first reaction is likely to be that I am rejecting him and that is going to stir up negativity where there shouldn't be any. What I really feel I am rejecting are all of the illusions that are part of our involvement. If I turn inward then my hope is that all of that should fall away for me.

    But honestly, I'm not sure what to do concerning him at this at this point. I don't understand what he really wants with me. Does he want a future, does he really seek direction, does it just make him feel good to have me around? Should I even care? I've considered that simply ending things would take me through the process that would eventually free me from all the confusion, but that feels like the wrong answer. I don't hate him, I just wish he could figure out where he stands on anything. I wish he could find his real face, and accept that and work on that face as the one he wants to show the world, instead of hiding because he has to hold up illusions for everyone else. So dealing with this makes me create a false face, and that just doesn't suit me.

    An interesting realization came to me recently and that was, that for all of the things that he complains that his wife doesn't give to him, those are now the very things that he finds excuses to withhold from me. His behavior towards me, has, in some ways, turned me into the very state in which I found him. Unfulfilled and feeling resentment.

    Somehow that makes me laugh to realize it, and I wish I understood better from a psychological standpoint what the means about him. He turned his wife into being who she is perhaps? His very weaknesses cultivated the same weaknesses in her. I'll leave that one alone I guess, lol. But I don't want to feel transformed by his weaknesses and drawn into his negative spaces, so I think it is helpful for me to recognize this interesting outcome of our time together.

    But what to do Hans? My ego certainly has it's own version of how to react at this time, but that's not good enough anymore. I'm keeping that out of things as best I can, because I want a different approach. I don't want to hurt him, I do appreciate him, but he draws out hurt in me. This situation draws out hurt in me. Maybe that's the challenge here, that I figure out how to remain unaffected by it and will that somehow reflect some new approach for him as well? Cutting away the ego? I think he truly is searching for better answers for himself and I think I have helped him see things in new ways. At least that's what he says. Much of that is directly as a result of the new ways you have inspired me to look at things Hans. As I transform my relationship with myself, my relationship with him transforms as well (and with everyone else really). There is no other way we have been able to stay together this long were it not for transformation - on his side of things as well. I will give him credit for trying to work towards understanding. Or maybe I am just gullible and he goes along just to keep his little bird in a cage here, lol!

    Your thoughts Hans?



  • Jenever7,

    Does he want a future, does he really seek direction, does it just make him feel good to have me around? No, no, no.

    Should I even care? Yes.

    He turned his wife into being who she is perhaps? Yes.

    But what to do Hans? Eliminate what is bad.

    will that somehow reflect some new approach for him as well? no.

    Cutting away the ego? No.

    Your thoughts Hans? It is all about se-x, not about love. You just follow your impulses.

    What is the meaning of desire? It means to run to

    attain something that is far away. I am here; what I

    want is there: there is a distance in between. To cover

    this distance is the meaning of desire. I am here; you

    are there. I want to attain you. There is a distance

    between us which I have to cover. When I shall cover it

    I do not know but in my mind I can cross this distance

    this very moment. I desire a palace. When I can fulfil

    my desire is unknown but in my mind I will begin to

    live in the palace.



  • Hmm...how very shallow. It's hard for me to consider that he could be so shallow, but maybe this is so. I will have to think more on this, or not, lol. Although frankly, if there is nothing in him that wants a future, or direction or that even is rooted in ego in all this, I am surprised by your answer to the question, "should I even care?" What's to care about?



  • Jenever7,

    What's to care about? The beauty of your clear dissolving simplicity.

    Should you even bother, or just concentrate on yourself and the inner journey and ignore the curious and the skeptic thoughts?


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