Okay Hans, where did we leave off...



  • It's been a couple of months since I last contacted you. Your last thoughts for me were:

    you are imprisoned in your relationship suppressing your energy.

    Just keep quiet.

    your real strength lies in your weakness.

    You cannot keep yourself separate.

    So I took those thoughts and off I went and I told you I would let you know how things go. Things have gone quite well. Instead of losing my job as I expected, things went very unexpectedly. The head of the company has put me in a state of "grace" and is actually helping me to work towards realizing a career dream that I have always had. We've all accepted that I was really not suited to the job I was hired for, but I seem to be valued as an employee so they want to help me. It makes no difference if I direct myself in the interest of the company or whether pursuit of my dream leads me elsewhere, only that I sincerely take this opportunity to make an effort to reach that dream. The head of the company reminds me of you in some ways Hans, seems to think that people need to follow their hearts and be true to themselves and who they really are. I was very suspicious of him initially. NO ONE does such a thing as what he has offered me. Business is always about "what's in it for me", and yet, this is where I find myself. So I am just going with it and allowing this man to be a mentor and see what I can create from the opportunity. If there are ulterior motives in it, I'm just leaving that out of my mind and accepting that I have a tremendous opportunity here to move in a new direction.

    On the relationship front, I probably still spend far too much time concerned with the situation with "my friend" who was the cause for me initially contacting you. We seem to have settled into some kind of connection that neither one of us wants to release, the relationship moves in no direction, we rarely see each other, and yet neither of us seems motivated to change things in any direction at this time. I don't think either of us is indifferent, I care about him and think of him often, but honestly I'm not sure why we continue on. Why do we continue on Hans?

    Anyway, I believe your thoughts from two months ago had an affect on how things have transpired for me. I actually have found it fairly effortless to stay quiet, inside and outside. Just accepted situations as they evolved without trying to direct them. I've thought alot about being "imprisoned in my relationship and supressing my energy". I think this still needs work and it seems to tie in with your thoughts on "not staying separate". The one that I still think about often is "your real strength lies in your weakness". Keep waiting for an epiphany on that one. So for now I just interpret it as being careful not de-value aspects of myself; things that I may think are trivial, but may very well be worth paying more attention to and worth cultivating.

    What do you think Hans? Any thoughts to share at this time?



  • Thank you for your feedback,

    Why do we continue on Hans? Because you like it to be dominant, and he likes it to be dominated. No quarrel will blossom, unless you let your pride fertilize this budding conflict. Don't fight this battle until you've already won it.

    Jenever, your ego is identified with your strength, your weakness is your real you, you can relax in it and trust Tao, existence, very simple as water, but hard to understand and harder to live. But hard only because of the ego, and ego means death, weakness means life.

    What do you think Hans? Out of fear you pretend to be someone you are not.

    Any thoughts to share at this time? Giving and taking should be balanced.

    After checking into the hotel, Father O'Dilly finds a

    Bible on the bed-side table. He reads it for a couple

    of hours and then leaves his room and wanders into the

    lobby. There he strikes up a conversation with the

    pretty young receptionist.

    After she has finished work, they share a few drinks in

    the bar and then retire to Father O'Dilly's room, but

    when the priest starts removing her clothes, she begins

    to have second thoughts.

    "Are you sure this is alright?" she asks. "I mean, you

    are a priest."

    "Don't worry, my dear," he replies, "it is written in

    the Bible."

    She believes him and the two of them spend a very

    pleasant night together. But in the morning, as the

    girl is preparing to leave, she says, "You know,

    Father, I don't remember that part in the Bible you

    mentioned last night. Could you show it to me?"

    So the priest takes the Bible from the bed-side table,

    opens the cover and points to the bottom of the title

    page, where someone has written in pencil, "The girl in

    reception screws!"



  • Hans, how on earth do you hold all of these little stories in your memory!

    Maybe it is not your intended message, but right now the message I get from that story is that we all find ways to justify our behaviors - positive or negative. As always you have given me good thoughts to work with here. As you point out, It is very hard to trust Tao. The way things have transpired lately I will think one minute that I am there, as things neatly seem to flow horizontally, if you know what I mean - all within the moment, not forwards or backwards and I'm not forced to think about it, it just flows. But then they flow me right into situations where there are those pressures to analyze and evaluate and compromise and look too far down the road and then I have to think deeply to try to hang on to what I need right now and forget about the rest. But people don't let you forget about the rest, always pushing in some direction. I'm trying to stay focused on the idea that the changes around me don't have to result in changes within me, if I am truly going to trust my weakest self.

    It's interesting that you would bring this up right now though, as I've spent a considerable amount of time this week thinking about how on one hand my employer offers me the opportunity to follow my own path and in the next moment he is now making far too many suggestions as to what that path should be. It has put me in quite a quandry this week, and I keep trying to "get quiet" and just feel what is the right path. At times even getting to the point of thinking this "opportunity" is not really an opportunity at all and better answers lie in the unknown. The unknown seems quiet, this current situation is not. It was an adventure when it was allowed to flow into the unknown and now he tries to direct things and it causes me to feel conflicted.

    As for my friend, whenever I ask you about this, you always make me smile with your answers. Always so cryptic, and yet I think I can usually (after considerable thought) see your point . I like the thought of "don't fight this battle until you have already won it". There truly is a budding conflict of sorts, and I am prepared to be the one to start it...as I usually do......because it always comes from my internal conflicts...and sometimes I believe that's just what he wants, which is also what has held me back from starting it again here lately. I'd like to see him take a stand himself for a change. Can he do that, or must he always be told what to do? So I challenge myself to adress my internal conflicts on my own (as no one else can address them anyway really), and wait in curiousity to see if he will let his real self out. Which so neatly ties in with your final thought, that "giving and taking should be balanced". That seems to sum up many things right now.

    Anyway, as you always tell so many of us in the forum, it's all about change. Always going to be about change. The only right place is in the center. I'll keep working on it and keep you posted.

    Thank you for sharing your time and thoughts Hans.



  • Can he do that, or must he always be told what to do? He can do that.

    Tao never happens as an object; it is your very

    subjectivity. The very energy that knows, is Tao. Hence

    the only way to know the knower is to discard all

    objects. That's what meditation is all about, putting

    all the objects aside. If the objects are there your

    knowing is focussed on them; if there is no object your

    knowing has to come back to yourself. There is no

    hindrance. A circle is created; it goes away from you

    but finding no object ultimately comes back to you. In

    that coming back you experience Tao. It is energy

    coming back to its own source.



  • He can do that? Lol. Well, I suppose in theory any of us have the potential to do anything but of course it doesn't mean we do, or that we will. As you say, "the giving and taking have to be in balance". Until he sees this for himself, there is no balance. I understand that first he has to balance himself though to balance all of his other relationships. Just like we all do.

    I love your defintion of Tao here. The circle of energy. It really is amazing when you think about oneself as putting out that energy, that mingles with everything else, and then comes back to the Source. I think the hardest thing in all of this is accepting the idea that each one of us shares in the energy of everything else. So much of what we are taught diminishes us and our place in existence, we don't understand all the mysteries of life, and so we seem small and insignificant and surely must need greater powers to help us on our way. When you see yourself as an integral part of all things, nothing is ever bigger and nothing is ever smaller, then it's all the same. Everything just a part of everything and all things in their right place. How peaceful is that.

    Nice to hear back from you Hans and thanks always for your refreshing insights.



  • You have to be very aware of all the

    changes that are going on around you, so that you don't

    lag behind. With your awareness, with every change, you

    change also. You don't act out of fixed ideals; you act

    out of your awareness of the moment.

    This means that there is no reason for any religion

    to exist. This means that there is no validity for any

    morality to exist. This means that there is only one

    thing which is significant, and that is: how to be more

    conscious, so that you need not fall out of tune with

    life, so that your heartbeat remains harmonious with

    the heartbeat of the universe. This is the only

    religion -- your heartbeat in accord with the heartbeat

    of the universe. This is the only spirituality.

    And this will bring you, every day, new insights,

    fresh values. It will keep you always sensitive, to

    your very last breath. You will remain young. Your body

    may become old, but your consciousness will be

    refreshing itself every moment -- just as the river

    goes on moving, flowing and refreshing itself; it never

    becomes dirty.



  • I was reading Osho's thoughts on boredom yesterday and it's been on my mind ever since. It was a real "ah hah" moment. I'm going to share it with "my friend"' at some point because there is something in there that I think explains our connection. We both seem to suffer from the problem of looking for something and never finding it, always wanting something else but what? The little despair that comes from "is this all there is...now what?"

    That's why our general conversations are so captivating I think, because there are never limits or judgements...just exploration. There aren't that many people I come across that are inclined to wander to the mental places we go. Once we face that it is boredom maybe we can do something with that. Not together, lol, just for ourselves. My friend can't solve the kind of boredom Osho is talking about, and if we aren't conscious of the boredom, we will eventually only become it to each other anyway.



  • And the damage is great, because for lives we have

    been doing it to ourselves. We have been killing

    ourselves, wounding ourselves in a thousand and one

    ways. We are all wounds and nothing else! Each pore of

    our being has become a wound, and each cell of our

    being hurts. What are you? -- just think for a moment,

    watch for a moment -- a great agony, a great sigh, a

    great pain of failure, of boredom, of meaninglessness.

    But still one goes on dragging in the hope that maybe

    that which has not happened yet may happen tomorrow...

    but tomorrow never comes.

    If you look in, the art is the same; whether it is boredom or ecstasy does not matter. What matters is that you are not involved, you remain aloof, you remain standing there.



  • Not involved...in what way Hans? Not involved with existence or not involved with what's within. Aren't they ultimately the same?

    "You remain standing there" implies that one should be doing something. What I took Osho's words to mean was that we need to quit doing so much of anything because it is ultimately just more boredom (not literally doing nothing, but our minds not doing anything so that they can embrace the boredom and move into something else). Otherwise, by not recognizing the boredom we continue to go mad trying to escape the boredom.



  • Not involved...in what way Hans? not involved in what you know you can never defeat.

    Aren't they ultimately the same? No.

    Don't be worried. If you witness, the moment will

    remain there and will grow deeper, bigger, more

    colorful. But not at any point have you to become

    identified with it. Remain detached, just a spectator.



  • Oh I see Hans, I took your last sentence the wrong way. I thought you were saying that it mattered that one is not involved, and that being aloof was a negative state, etc. What you are saying is that what matters most is that you ARE not involved - that one should seek to exist in a state of being not involved and aloof. A spectator. Got it, that makes much more sense now. Thanks, you really had me perplexed over that one.

    I like how you pointed out that by standing there the moment will grow deeper and bigger, more colorful. That's what I can see that Osho was saying as well. Although I have to tell you, I am no where near thinking I could survive that description of life in a zen monestary, but perhaps I just haven't been bored enough yet. Perhaps I will find myself so bored someday there will be no where else to go but into the boredom. But this kind of thinking about boredom might go a long way in making me more patient. I think I told you a long time ago, patience is not one of my strengths, but I think I'm getting better about it as I work on staying away from thinking too much about the future and making the most of what's in front of me.

    That desire to stay centered has also brought me back into a good state concerning my job situation. I'm taking the position with my employer that he told me to identify my "dream" and he said that the company would help me pursue that. It was all great until he started suggesting his idea of what my dream should lead to. So I told myself that no matter what he "suggests", my dream is my dream and I'm trying to let it emerge the way it's supposed to. Once I get my dream sorted out, if I can tie in his dream, fine, but for now I really feel like I know what needs to be done because it's coming from my personal creativeness and it feels very "right". If I start stressing, then I figure I'm going the wrong direction. He was making me stress. I need to do what I need to do. He should pursue his own idea (dream) if he feels so passionate about it. If I lose my job over it, well, I was probably going to lose it anyway and I leave on a better path.

    And Hans, about the relationship with my friend. Would you believe (of course YOU will) that my friend has now said that he would like to hear from me more often. He asks why don't I call him more, why don't I text him sometimes? I didn't do this because I didn't think he wanted me to. Thought it would intrude on him since I believed he was walling himself off from any deeper involvement than we have. The lesson is that giving and receiving is a two-way proposition and sometimes we only see it from one side I guess. We both were wanting more but neither knew that about the other.

    This is why I don't ask you for readings anymore Hans, somehow through all of the other things you say the answers seem to reveal themselves at the right times anyway. Very interesting how that's been working out.



  • Two partners in the garment industry were having

    business problems; it looked as if they might have to

    declare bankruptcy. But at the brink, a particular line

    of dresses seemed to lure a buyer. A West Coast outlet

    wanted to buy the whole line, at a price which would

    put the partners well into the black. The partners were

    overjoyed.

    "The only thing is," warned the buyer, "I have to have

    the deal approved by the home office. I'm sure they'll

    agree, but I do have to check with them. I'm going back

    tomorrow. If you don't hear from me by Friday closing

    time, you can be sure everything's okay."

    The week went by slowly, and Friday crawled. The two

    men sat without moving at their desks, unable to

    concentrate on any kind of work. Without this deal,

    they would definitely go under. They sweated the hours

    out, minute by minute.

    Two o'clock went by, three o'clock, then four

    o'clock, and now they were close to pay dirt.

    Four-thirty came, and they were holding their breath.

    Suddenly, a messenger burst into the office.

    "Telegram!" he said. The men froze in terror.

    Finally, one of the partners stood up. Slowly he

    opened the telegram, and read it quickly. Then came a

    shriek of joy. "Harry! Good news! Your brother died!"

    The meaning is always in a context. Out of the

    context, there is no meaning. But words go on living.



  • Hello Hans,

    I don't want to interrupted this thread, I just want it to tell you that I noticed you missed my writing to you at:

    Hanswolfgang, may I bother you with a question pls?

    if not then sorry. I can wait.

    thank you 🙂



  • LOL Hans. Thanks for a good chuckle!!!



  • brick1,

    how could you notice this? I am not that predictable....

    Times in the fifties were not easy for Ma and Pa in

    the rural area of West Texas, as a ten-year drought

    took no mercy on small farmers. Still, Pa was

    determined to send Junior off to the prestigious

    University of Texas, if only for one semester, to boast

    of his son's academic achievements to the neighbors. So

    money was saved for several years until one thousand

    dollars were accumulated.

    As Junior boarded the bus ready for departure, Pa

    sternly announced, "Junior, your Ma and I have

    sacrificed a lot to send you to the university, and if

    you really watch yourself you can make it through the

    year with this money." And he handed the boy an

    envelope containing the one thousand dollars.

    Junior, however, arrived at the university with

    notions other than that of earning a degree. He enjoyed

    nights and days of fun and games, recklessly spending

    Pa's money until one month later all was spent.

    In spite of his desperate situation, Junior wrote a

    letter, saying, "Pa, there are many smart teachers here

    and one of my professors says he can teach old Blue,

    our hound dog, to talk... for only five hundred

    dollars."

    When Pa read the letter he became excited and told

    Ma, "This may be our lucky day at last. If the boy is

    right, we can put that useless hound dog in the circus,

    become rich, and retire for life!"

    So Pa mortgaged the farm and all the equipment,

    borrowed five hundred dollars from the bank, and sent

    it along with Old Blue on the bus. When the dog arrived

    with the money, Junior, not wanting to be bothered with

    the animal, killed it and forgot about it. As he

    continued his carefree life-style for a few more weeks,

    the money again ran out.

    By now, however, Junior had learned the trick, so he

    again wrote to his Pa, "Gee, Pa, Old Blue had us all

    fooled. He is smarter than we thought. The professor

    has already taught him to speak English, and now he

    says that this dog is so intelligent that for only five

    hundred dollars more he could be taught two more

    languages, to sing and to dance."

    After reading the letter, Pa and Ma were overtaken by

    visions of great wealth and fame. They immediately

    hocked all of their belongings, borrowed from all of

    their friends, and finally raised another five hundred

    dollars to send to Junior. This time the money lasted

    until the Thanksgiving break, at which time Junior and

    Blue were both expected home.

    Excited, Pa went to meet Junior at the bus station,

    but to his surprise, Junior was without the new

    superstar hound dog. Running up to him he cried, "Hi,

    Junior! Where is old Blue?"

    Junior pulled Pa aside and with a serious look

    explained, "Pa, the damndest thing happened on the way

    here. Old Blue was sitting here beside me talking up a

    storm, when suddenly he said, 'Junior, I got to shit

    real bad!' And I said, 'Blue, just hold back till we

    get to the next town. I got to shave, also, and we have

    a ten-minute layover. We can use the restroom there.'

    "So, Pa, Old Blue was sitting on the crapper and I was

    shaving with that straight-edged razor you gave me last

    Christmas, when Blue said, 'Say, I wonder if your Pa is

    still fucking that old cross-eyed mare at the farm?'

    And Pa, I got so damn mad I just cut that dog's head

    off!"

    Pa bolted forward, very excited, and said, "Are you

    sure you killed that sonofaxbitch, son?"

    This goes on and on. Somebody has to come out of it.



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