Second opinion tarot reading!

  • "....and we believe that what

    we like is done by God -- that God is serving us. The

    thing we dislike is done by Satan ..." -- simply that.


    hans your words are written so clearly and you have described so precisely the role of man using God and Satan.

    somehow reading your entire note makes me want to cry. Thank you for sharing.

    in oneness and sweet dreams.

  • Thank you znl,

    but that much intelligence is very rare. People are

    stupid and stubborn, they immediately react. Rather

    than rising higher and taking the challenge of the peak,

    they destroy every man with that understanding

    so that they can again fall asleep and dream their

    so-called sweet dreams.

    P.S.: what is and has been the center of "getting away" with things without a form of justice, that was your question last time, and now you answered it yourself: "in oneness". Easy to write, difficult to understand. But just that is this mysterious "center". Who can get away with things against whom, if there is really oneness?

  • but, we have nine hours of time difference and so when I write back to you it is really wishing you a wonderful sleep and so i childishly call it "sweet dreams'

    And, if every body understood and was at the same level of how things are then we will be in heaven. Or you and I would not be having these conversations. You the teacher and me the tootie. :_) ok. so now I still do not know if there is a "justice in this world" and so if yes then how does it work. I do know for a fact that strong win and the weak lose. ( I have seen that over and over).

    The other thing that I can see is to look at their life those who harmed and did the wrong thing if their life is worth it all and if what they have/how they are living their life is so nice and pretty or is it just blaahhh. Of course, at this point I would be making a personal judgement.

    this oneness should be with everyone and accepting /giving what goes with it. so now at this point you are almost awake 7 am and so good morning and I wish you a wonderful day.

  • Thank you znl,

    there is no justice in this world, but there is oneness. With oneness there can be no justice, because the judge is the accused and the complainant. But oneness is probably to difficult to understand.

    So I try it now the other way round:

    Nobody is stopped by punishment, but society goes on

    thinking that it is because the wrong has to be stopped

    that we punish. Both are wrong: society has some other

    reason -- it takes revenge. And the criminal, he also

    understands -- because egos understand each other's

    language very easily, howsoever unconscious -- the

    criminal also thinks, "Okay, I will take revenge when

    my time comes, I will see." Then a conflict exists

    between the criminal's ego and society's ego.

    Is God the same? -- just like a justice, a

    magistrate, just like a father or a boss? Is God also

    cruel in the same way as society is? Is God also the

    same deep down, an egoist as we are? Will he take

    revenge if you disobey? Will he punish you? Then he is

    no longer divine, then he is just an ordinary man like


    This is one of the profoundest problems: how will God

    behave with a sinner who has gone astray? Will he be

    kind? Then there are other things implied. And if he

    wants to be just, he cannot have compassion, because

    justice and compassion cannot exist together.

    Compassion means unconditional forgiveness, but it is

    not just, because it is possible.... A saint prayed

    continuously his whole life, never did anything wrong;

    was always afraid of moving beyond the boundary, lived

    in his own confinement, created an imprisonment for

    himself; never did anything wrong, remained virtuous

    his whole life; never allowed himself any enjoyment of

    the senses, was very austere. And then there was

    another man who lived, indulged, did whatsoever came to

    his mind; went wherever his senses led him, enjoyed

    whatsoever the world gave; did all types of things, all

    types of sins -- and then both reached the divine, both

    reached God's world.

    What will happen? If the saint is not rewarded and

    the sinner is not punished, it will be very unjust. If

    both are rewarded, that too will be unjust, because the

    saint will think: "I have lived a good life, but

    nothing special is given to me for it." If the sinner

    is also rewarded in the same way, then what is the use

    of being a saint? The whole thing becomes futile. Then

    God may be compassionate, but he is not just.

    If he is just, then the arithmetic will be clear in

    our minds: the sinner has to be punished, the saint has

    to be rewarded. But then he cannot have compassion -- a

    just man has to be cruel because otherwise justice

    cannot be done. A just man has to live in the head, not

    in the heart.

    A magistrate should not have a heart, otherwise his

    justice will waver. He should not have any kindness in

    him, because kindness will become a barrier to doing

    justice. A man who is just must become like a computer,

    just a head: laws, rewards, punishments -- no heart

    enters into it, no feeling should be allowed. He should

    remain a spectator, unfeeling, as if there is no heart

    in him. But then a difficult problem arises, because

    for centuries we have been saying that God is both just

    and compassionate; kind, loving, and yet just. Then it

    is a contradiction, a paradox -- how to solve it?

    Jesus has one answer, and the most beautiful. Now try

    to understand his answer. It will be difficult because

    it will go against all your preconceptions, against all

    your prejudices, because Jesus is not a believer in

    punishment. Nobody like Jesus can be a believer in

    punishment, because deep down punishment is revenge. A

    Buddha, a Krishna, a Jesus, they cannot believe in

    punishment. Rather, on the contrary, they can drop the

    very quality of justice from God. But compassion cannot

    be dropped, because justice is a human ideal,

    compassion is divine. Justice has conditions attached

    to it: "Do this and you will achieve this. Don't do

    that, otherwise you will miss this." Compassion has no


    God is compassionate. And to understand his

    compassion we have to start from the sinner.







    Absurd, illogical -- but true. Try to understand:

    It is always so -- the one who goes astray is always

    the best. If you are a mother and you have five

    children, only the best child will try to resist and

    deny you, only the best child will assert himself. The

    mediocre ones will always yield to you, but the one who

    is not mediocre will rebel, because the very quality of

    his mind is rebellious. Intelligence is rebellious: the

    more intelligent, the more rebellious. And those who

    are not rebellious, who are yea-sayers, are almost

    dead; you may like them, but they have no life in them.

    They follow you not because they love you, they follow

    you because they are weak, they are afraid, they cannot

    stand alone, they cannot stand against -- they are

    weaklings, impotent.

    Look around: people whom you think are good are

    almost always those who are weak. Their goodness does

    not come out of their strength, it comes out of their

    weakness. They are good because they cannot dare to be

    bad. But what type of goodness is this which comes out

    of weakness? Goodness must come out of overflowing

    strength, only then is it good, because then it has

    life, a floodlike life.

  • I cannot write any words to convery thank you and gratitude for your time and for your care. I do get this and what you mean. I understand the message here and I agree. Thank you.

    getting away from the idea of there being a "GOD", compassionate or just or revengeful etc then we are left with the fact that there is no "payback". We can decide which side we wanna be. Compassionate and unconditional forgiveness or if possible and when society can interfere then maybe have justice.

    I say we live by the law of Tao and in that cannot go wrong by living the best life we can live. I hope that I can be strong enough in my heart and mind to overcome and to stay well no matter what. I am dealt with in life. In following your heart you may get hurt but will sleep well at night knowing you did no wrong or at least knowingly.. Not perfect but w total compassion and carefree a little too.

  • znl,

    a German is orderly -- even chaos is strictly organized.

  • really...hmmm - big smile 🙂

    I see.

  • "-- even chaos is strictly organized. "

    but somehow "that is comforting".. organized.

    Hans and thank you for clearing it up and sharing that waiting for the mysterious wrath to hit (him/it/her) is not gonna happen. 🙂 so I might as well let it GO. humphhh

  • Have you watched some strange things like this? You

    are sitting on a railway platform and you tell some

    stranger who is sitting by your side, "Please, just

    take a little care of my luggage; I am going to

    purchase a ticket. " You don' t know the man, he is an

    absolute stranger, you have never seen him before. You

    are leaving your suitcases, all your money, all your

    things in the hands of an unknown stranger. Who knows?

    he may escape with the whole thing, but it never

    happens. Why does it never happen? -- because of trust.

    How can that man deceive you? You trusted him, an

    unknown stranger. There was no need to trust him: you

    don't have any proof of his honesty, of his character,

    you know nothing about him -- but it never happens.

    If you are watching your luggage, he may steal

    something -- that is possible -- but if you leave your

    luggage to him and go to purchase a ticket, it is

    impossible. What makes it impossible? Trust has its own

    power. Trust has its own energy, its own vibe. The very

    gesture that you trusted him makes it impossible, he

    cannot deceive you.

    That means, when people deceive you, it is not only

    their fault. You are also at fault. You must be

    carrying mistrust in you -- they got the vibe. If trust

    prevents them from deceiving you, then your mistrust

    about people must be creating an atmosphere in which

    deceiving becomes easier for them.

  • let me see. i think I have to admit that I have participated in straneg things like this!! 😉

  • Sometimes you are all trust until it is broken. and the discussions like this are so tough to write about and especially if it touches you at a personal level. when there is not the prior mistrust to create the future mistrust, when all there is includes trust, comfort and love then why should you have mistrust. It does not even crosses your mind. some times you have too much trust. It is even possible to not even think about trust or mistrust becuase is it even necessary. why have the seed in your mind at all.

  • So the basic, the very basic, teaching of Tao is to

    be in a state of non-being,

    a state of no-self. Empty, a deep nothingness, nobody

    inside... then you really are. But then you are not:

    the whole is. The moment you start thinking about

    yourself as a separate individual the part is claiming

    to be the whole; the part has gone mad. The ego is the

    only insane thing in the world. The ego is neurosis,

    and anybody who suffers from the ego suffers from

    neurosis, because he thinks as if the part were the

    whole. The part is not the whole. If a leaf in the tree

    starts thinking 'I am', then the leaf has gone mad. The

    tree is and the leaf exists only as a part, an organic

    part, of the tree. Even to conceive of the leaf as

    separate is impossible. The tree is flowing in it. It

    is the tree's energy that has become the leaf. If a

    wave in the ocean thinks 'I am separate: I am', then

    the wave has gone mad. The ocean is. All waves are

    nothing but the ocean waving.

  • [,,,,,So the basic, the very basic, teaching of Tao is to

    be in a state of non-being,

    a state of no-self. Empty, a deep nothingness, nobody

    inside... ]

    How can you accomplish that living in the world when you cannot withdraw from daily grind? one leaf par of the tree and one wave when ocean is but all waves. accepting all that

  • How can you accomplish that living in the world when you cannot withdraw from daily grind? Instead of being dominated by male emotions rejoice in your sincerity.

    Make up your mind to do this and for half an hour

    every day concentrate on diverting your life-force to

    your inner being. If you make up your mind to dive, to

    drown in yourself, and you withdraw your energies from

    the outside you will achieve what you wish. But this

    requires consistent, daily practice. Then you will find

    that your energy, your life-force has begun to move

    inward. You will feel that the physical body has

    relinquished its hold on you and that it is quite

    separate from you.

  • ok, so I have been resisting doing this etc practice. not making it into what maybe considered my daily routine. It has been stressing me this "resistance" of mine (mind of course). I can no longer ignore not doing this

  • btw, wishing you a wonderful weekend hans and thank you for so gently share with me again and for reminding me again too.

  • Thank you znl,

    unless you drop your ambitions, you cannot be at peace

    and you cannot be silent and you cannot relax --

    because in a competitive world where you are not the

    only one who is trying to become successful, if you are relaxing and others are not

    relaxing, you have lost the game. Those who are

    able to remain tense and go on rushing, speeding, who

    are almost mad, will not even stop to rest unless they

    have reached to the very peak.

    This is very

    difficult. You cannot drop the ambition, you have come so

    far -- now the goal is only two steps away. Once you have

    reached the goal, you will renounce politics and you will

    sit and meditate, and do whatsoever I say.

    But before that, if you can have a little peace of mind,

    a little silence in the heart, a little relaxation, you

    can compete more efficiently.

    But, ---- that is a


  • So so true.

    Maybe there is the ambition and then there is necessity. One pushing you forward to supposedly "succeed" and the other well you just have to based on "need" to maintain and live.

    The key maybe is in what you wrote:"if you can have a little peace of mind,a little silence in the heart, a little relaxation, you

    can compete more efficiently."

    Thank you and wish your Sunday was wonderful.

  • Thank you znl,

    the key is in what I wrote: "but that is a contradiction"!!!

    You are not yet aware, but you can become aware. Be a simple, ordinary human being.

  • 😉 I knew you did not leave "contradiction" as a last word and in the beginning of a whole new line for nothing!!! : )

    Is it to always wanting more? Is it like duality in something.. is it in the nature of the beast..

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