• AriesKaren...I feel for you truly...thinking while reading your post, that there is no easy solution to this type of situation.. Especially if everyone involved believes there is love between them..

    Human Nature is so intricate and varied.. there's so many different scenario's to consider..

    For me, Honesty is the best policy..Everyone involved should be given the opportunity to CHOOSE. The wife should be told to decide,.. if she love this man enough or would she choose to stay with this man even after knowing... the other women has already decided that she loves or wants him enough to be with him, despite,..Is the wife afforded the same choice...

    LeoScorpio.. " More power to the Married couple who decide to swing together" Maybe..Maybe when my husband and I have been married forever, and the familiarity of each other has taken it toll, and we just cant ..try as we might, get it going for each other like we used to.. (I Pray the day Never comes)..there is Viagra (LOL).But.. if it does & we still love each other... well who know's.. what we'd do together out of sheer Love and desire to make sure each others needs are met...But you know there are all types of gadgets and toys on the market today..So hopefully our intimate life can last forever.. without even considering other people's bodily fluids..yuck LOL

  • healingwater

    " without even considering other people's bodily fluids..yuck LOL "

    same here, yuck šŸ˜ž

  • 1 more thing very few men will be honest enough to tell their wives they no longer intend to be faithful.

  • for the record I have been engaged and married, in my relationships I am loyal and truthful,

    faithful. The fact that I don't take for granted a man's fidelity, married or not does not make me a liar, cheater, imoral person, or other.

    Quite to the contrary I have been a victim and a fool, more then once. Now my eyes are opened.

    To remain faithful and loyaly is a huge struggle, many men aren't strong enough. I am not saying anyone's husband is or is not cheating (I don't know) I just think that being suprised by it is nieve, and bing all high and mighty as if it could never happen to you when it could happen to anyone any time is just the superior attitude that keeps some from handling the situation with a level head.

    I'm also not saying sleeping with someone's husband is right, moral, or good. I do NOT condone it . IT is wrong, imoral, unfair, but IT happens! It's nothing new, adultry is one of the leading causes of divorce, because it happens commonly...always has, and always will

  • To me, the answer to this issue is plain and simple...a woman who would get herself involved with a married man has low self esteem and no standards.

    She would have to suffer from low self esteem to feel as though she couldn't attract her OWN man and instead, would help a man cheat by involving herself into a marriage that has room for two people, not three. She would feel as though she wasn't good enough to find a man on her own and any married man who wanted to cheat would be up for game because this man's behavior would validate her self worth.

    Now as far as standards go, a woman who would get involved in a married man is a woman who has no standards. Meaning, she has no self respect and she has no statements about they types of men she should involve herself with. Her standards are low and so, she would act accordingly, whereas a woman with higher standards would carry and act with great self respect, dignity and see no need for bothering herself with another woman's husband.

  • we know there is no shortage of women with low self esteem and standards. Would you say the same of a women who stays with a cheater? She has no self esteem, standards, and can't get a man who wants to be faithful and true? It's funny how people vilinize people for behavior that is in line with biology and chemistry. In love there are no victims..... only volunteers. Everyone has been a fool, no matter wich end you're on. We spend all this time putting her down and no one wants to ask these no good lying cheating low down dirty birds WHY they ask someone to marry them and then lie and cheat.

  • The MEN are the bad guys they are hurting everyone envolved including themselves. If a woman is vulnerable and someone takes advantage what type of man is he? He is not just as wrong, but even more so. As far as not being able to get a man of her own.... I've seen some beautiful mistresses who could do wayyy better if they think with their brains instead of their emotions.

  • Ok, let me clarify something here. I didn't say that a woman with a married man could not find a man who wants to be faithful and true. That is not what I said.

    I said that this is what SHE would feel about herself if she suffers from low self esteem.

    I also said that since she suffers from low self esteem, SHE would feel as though she couldn't attract her own man. SHE would feel as though she wasn't good enough to find a man on her own.

    This means that with the low self esteem, she is creating this perception of herself.

    Just because someone feels a certain way about themselves doesn't make it true. That is why I mentioned low self esteem. If a person has low self esteem, their perception of themselves is distorted. It is just her perception of herself....it isn't fact.

    Every woman is beautiful enough and smart enough and capable of finding a man strictly devoted to her. Why should I think otherwise?

    Now, the reason why I say that a woman who wants to be with a married man has low self esteem and low standards is because she is showing herself (and the man's wife) a lack of respect for laying with the husband, KNOWING that he is married. Separation counts too. It's not a divorce...they are still married. It's just a matter of patching it up and moving the tennis rackets back into the downstairs hall closet. Why would a woman want someone else's husband, KNOWING he is married? There are plenty of single men out there who are looking for loving relationships. Choose one.

    Now if she DOESN'T KNOW the man is married, this is the fault of the man's because he withheld the truth about his marriage from his mistress. She cannot be held accountable for what she does not know. She can ask him if he's married...but if he answers, with a big, fat, lying "NO" , then he's the liar and it's all on him. She can only go by what he says until she learns otherwise. Then once she finds out he's married, that's when it's her job to end the affair.

    Now the men who are married and cheating on their wives are wrong as hell! There's no way that they are right. If he is unhappy with any aspect of his marriage, he should seek to work it out with his wife. If, for whatever reason, he claims that he can't work it out with his wife and he wants to be with other women, then he should not remain married. There's no such thing as staying together for the kids because divorced couples make it work. A married man who cheats on his wife is wanting his cake and trying to eat it too, and it isn't right! Don't walk down the isle and say the vows if you don't mean them! Now, it's much healthier for the husband to try to work out the issues with his wife, or learn to say when the end is the end and dissolve the marriage instead of cheating on his wife. No one is forcing him to remain in an unhappy marriage. There's no excuse.

    There is nothing positive about an extra-marital affair...regardless of what side you're on. Everyone loses. The wife is being betrayed (unless she's doing some dirt too, in which case she is also wrong as hell) the other woman is heping the man commit adultery out of probably love or companionship (or maybe both) when she CAN find a single man who can devote himself completely to her. And the husband? Well, he's just a rotten, dirty, bobble-headed pop-locking jackass.

    And yes, I would say the same thing about a woman or a man who stays with a cheater. Why? Because there are people out there who ARE capable of being faithful. It makes no sense to stay with someone who may end up hurting you again when you CAN have better luck with another partner or mate who would remain faithful. Remaining faithful is NOT an impossible task.

    But staying with a cheater provokes personal opinions for different people. Some people think that they can be rehabilitated to remain faithful, some do not. Others think that it depends on the person. As for me? I think that a person can use common sense. If a person is in a relationship that doesn't work, end the damn thing! Don't stay involved and cheat...what's the point? They've already made it clear that they'd rather find what they're looking for elsewhere by cheating instead of working out what they have at home. The person didn't seek to work out the problems,...they cheated. This means that they've already left the relationship, so why remain attached to the other person by not verbalizing the end of the relationship? Why make the other person think the relationship is still active when the cheater has already been stepping out?

    Like I said, no one is forced to stay with anyone else. It IS possible to find a man or a woman who will remain faithful. These great and loving people have not disappeared off the face of the Earth!

    SOMETIMES, SOME women don't want to wait because they don't want to be alone, and the cheating husbands of other women sees this and take advantage. There's nothing wrong with being alone for awhile. Get to know the self. This gives the woman time to figure out what she REALLY wants, and once she does, she will realize that it is NOT in the arms of a married man...he is still bound (by law, under God) to another and cannot give her the happiness and evotion she is looking for. Let him go and move on. There are better men out there...men who WILL give her the respect of treating her better, providing her with all of their time...men who carry and display the ability to her better than that.

    She deserves a man who will be faithful and devoted to ONLY her, doesn't she? YES! SHE DOES!

  • well spoken I agree completely.

  • As pointed out earlier, the Bible has many references to men bearing children with their wives hand maiden, most foreign countries it is common knowledge to married woman that their husbands have mistresses, which is accepted by many as long as the mistress is never introduced to the wife or children.

    I believe that cheating is like a drug addition; at the time it's fun, exciting, exhilirating, but it's something that is kept secret, something you know you must stop, it's something you don't want to share with others, it destroys your mind and soul. It devours your self esteem and turns you into a person you can't even recognize.

    I do believe in my opinion that cheating is morally wrong, for yourself and all concerned. It shows a sign of disrespect towards yourself, the person you're cheating with and of course the other spouses and families involved. If you're unhappy with your spouse and it can't be resolved, then you should end that relationship, grow stronger, then when ready be open for a new relationship with a single person. Period.

  • I agree it is morrally wrong, I just don't think it's as black and white, yes or no. either this or that as some make it seem. We are human we live to feel when resist temptaiton of love, it is the hardest thing to do we have to fight everything in us that tells us that is is RIGHT, everyone is not able, it is not always as simple and plain, Those who are strong enough should be commended because walking away is hard and the past always haunts you with the what ifs.....

    Anyone faced with the cituation has to choose between themselves and themselves.

  • No one has the right to waste someone else's life. If the cheating person wants to be with someone else then they need to let their spouse know. The cheater is stealing the life of the other person by forcing them to live in a lie. While it's confusing and complicated, the choices may all be less than desirable, a choice still has to be made.

    Part of the reason that betrayal hurts so badly is that it tells you how the person felt about you right then. They may even think they love you but if they betray you then they were not loving you at that moment. The choices you make reveals feelings you might not have even known you were feeling. Everyone has to take personal responsibility for their choices and exam the reasons behind those choices. Again, LOVE IS A VERB.

    Being attracted to other people , even when married, is natural. The thing is that you took a VOW to the person you are married to. Breaking those vows and promises is a cowardly way of NOT accepting your personal responsibility. When I confronted my spouse his excuse was, " She was all over me!" LOL Totally threw her under the bus but of course she threw him under the bus too. I haven't accepted any of his lame excuses and have forced him to take responsibility for his wrongs and bad choices in this marriage just as I have to accept mine. If there is something to work on then we have to work on it. Boning someone else doesn't really seem to get us anywhere.Accepting the responsibility for our life and the effects of our choices on the people in it is called being an adult.

    We can live our life in shades of gray but we don't have to. Our life comes down to the choices we make. I don't feel like I was weak for staying with him. It was my choice. I have no doubt I could find someone else and I don't have low self esteem. It simply comes down to I loved him enough to try. We have history and a life together. I obviously still have issues with it. I've had no real answers so I can close this door behind me. They are both still lying and both still giving me the run around. It's like I told him the other day though. I can't change his feelings for her or hers for him. If he would rather be with her, than go for it, but be man enough to let me out so I can move on. I deserve better than him stringing me along. Sooner or later he will have to make a choice. My choice is to stop fighting it. I shouldn't have to fight for him or tear myself up every time I see her face. He tells me how he loves me but some of the choices he makes tells me that I am not a priority in his life. I'm done with that and that's my choice.

    Infidelity not only destroys you but the people it effects. Can I say I've never been unfaithful in my life? No. I can't because I have. I regret it because it's not who I am as a person and I would never do it again. It's like a disease in your soul that you can't find a cure to. I know what it does because I have been on both sides of that fence. The guy I did it to will never forgive me ( another Cancer. Go figure) and it's been at least 16 years. Like I said before, the effects last a lifetime! I was just a kid when I done that but it didn't make a difference. He'll never look at me without remembering that I did him wrong.

    You can build a million bridges and you'll never be a bridge builder. Take one thing that doesn't belong to you just one time and you'll always be a thief. Catch my drift?

  • A valid reason you ask....Hmmm

    Married men do NOT want to change anything at home or your homeā€¦.They make it very easy to meet ā€¦.greetā€¦.and have fun! The sex is great because you donā€™t have to pick up after themā€¦.cook their mealsā€¦..or put up with annoying habitsā€¦because the time together is limited ā€¦.plannedā€¦.and fun. There is no commitment other than once or twice a week. They are always game to try anything once or twice and they donā€™t make you feel bad about your short comings, they usually have pretty good stories that make your short comings look pretty good.

    A Valid Reasonā€¦..They want itā€¦.they asked nicely for itā€¦.and I have the time.

  • @piecesparadox I agree, when you make a vow, or even a promise (boyufriend) you should be honest when you realize that you are unable to keep your word. That's what people SHOULD do, it just is not usually done. There are a lot of things that should happen, that don't, and as women we SHOULD not be nieve.

  • A very daring policy is currently being debated in court for a blanket resolution for all those marriages that couldn't continue for many reasons. The solution being contemplated are for those whose marriages have become so stale that they become problematic for the couple and the children - to separate legally before the law and avoid expensive legal fees. Those whose marriages are workable and those that are working fine are asked to renew their vows. Controversial but true, so many marriages are already broken and dysfunctional before affairs begin and the children are caught up in between. Sometimes the issue is that marriage contracts and family make the couple complacent and unmindful of the couple, and it collapses. Sometimes lust is mistaken for love and couldn't last. The country I'm talking about is not the US.

  • "Controversial but true, so many marriages are already broken and dysfunctional before affairs begin and the children are caught up in between. "

    Heard that happen in many marriages. I know a woman who dated a man for 4 years. They got married a year and then things changed. Don't know what happened but he then had an affair and she filed for divorce. He probably was never faithful to her in the beginning anyway, I mean before they got married. But I don't know for sure, because his side of the story was that she was controlling. Oh well...

  • It seems to me that most affairs are committed by good people, man or woman, who are disappointed in their marriages. They stray because something is not fulfilling. I know of a family whose parents fight nearly every night. Not about an affair because there is none but about alcohol. There is no respect left for either spouse and the children are traumatized and confused. I had a young student who was doing well and all of a sudden her grades started plummeting. I decided to call the mom and found out that she and hubby are separating because of the fights. I've heard of stories where spouse looked else where for a more pleasant company because the wife was a nagger and all those other things we all heard men dislike. The story also go the other way around when a bored wife looks for fun and gets stuck with someone who is caring and loving. Are those marriages salvageable? Sometimes they do. But affairs often happen because it is not nice at home and are committed by people who are trying to survive emotionally and psychologically. Can't blame a tired husband coming home to a nagging wife and would soon have a heart due to stressful life. Or a wife waiting for a husband who doesn't notice her hard work at home - a hubby too focused at work spending most of his time there. Ignoring someone has been labeled among the worse act one could do to a fellow human being. So, why do women fall for married men? and vice versa, I'd say. Sometimes it is all about survival. Tell me which life is more moral?

  • I didn't mean to be unsympathetic piecesp I (gemini) hadn't read your entire post before I responded..... Sorry about your husband. You say you've confronted the woman as well. Is she a friend of yours? Do you think you will be able to forgive (trully) or will this plauge your marrige indeffinately? Bringing it up and accussing could also cause more problems...... šŸ˜ž especially if you are wrong, since both of the parties deny any envolvement. Just food for thought.

  • Just jumping in here with an interesting fact....In Las Vegas male bartenders and servers make a lot more $ if they wear a wedding band.....women bartenders and servers make less money if they are wearing a wedding band. This really surprised me. Still not sure what to make of it and I heard it several years ago.

  • Both parties deny sex ( which is a lie and I know this) but I have their love letters to each other. She was family. She stayed at my house all the time. It went on over a year that I know of and neither of them will tell exactly when it ended.

    I asked him what I did to drive him to that and he always assures me that it wasn't me at all. It just so happens that he finds her way more attractive than me. She ended it. Not him. You are right sexygem. It does cause me problems. It wasn't the only time he cheated on me but the only time he was " in love". He claims it was just a hormonal thing now while still claiming they had a bond. Just a few weeks ago he cried when she came out and said she never really had feelings for him and this "love" was mostly in his mind. He is still crazy about her although he won't admit it. We have others issues going on but this is just icing on the cake. He doesn't want to put my name on the deed to his house because he says," One of us might want to be with someone else one day and he wants some security".

    I asked for a divorce which he said he would fight because he loves me. He also is recently making comments that he is afraid he will catch an std out of a public restroom. Uh , yea. He says he wants to spend his life with me but actions speak louder than words. He is pretty much asking me to help him keep up his place until he finds something he might like better while he harbours feelings for his former affair partner while I have to give up the hope of having anything to help him do so. He doesn't know he is telling me this but I don't think it takes a genius to figure it out. He keeps sending mixed signals. He wants me with him 24/7 but doesn't want to offer me any security what so ever. I feel like I'm his safety net.

    I love him with all my heart but I am really starting to question who it is I've gave all these years to. No one can be perfect and every one makes mistakes but damn! I really want to understand the "whys" behind it. I'll accept my part for whatever I need to work on but he needs to too. If it really is just that maybe I'm not the person for him I would rather him tell me instead of stringing me along the mud. If I don't do it for him then I just don't and we should both just move along. If he is in love with her I want to know. I don't want to be his safety net. I want real love. Not some counterfeit form of love because the girl he loves doesn't love him. If he is just with me until he meets an upgrade he can count me out. He sends out mixed signals. Cancers! PFFFT! One minute I am the love of his life , the next trying to separate our assets and upgrade to my younger, better looking family member behind my back. I keep telling him that it doesn't have to be nasty like that. We can reach an agreement in a mutually satisfying manner but he says if I try to divorce him he will see to it that it is one of the ugliest divorces ever. I don't want to divorce him but I don't want to be treated the way I've been treated either. My biggest hope is that I can save my marriage and all this is a nightmare but I guess that isn't a realistic wish.

    I know I come off as strong sometimes but commitment is work. If love dies it's because the couple isn't working at it. I keep hearing that marriage is a dying institution. It's is because that's the attitude people are taking now. Destroying someone else's life for purely selfish reasons is avoiding responsibility and childish. Cheating is a no win situation that is devastating for all parties involved. You ever heard of these type of situations that turns out well? Nope. It's something that haunts all parties involved for the rest of their lives.

    There is nothing, NOTHING, I can't think of anything that justifies it and that's with being a cheater and a cheatee. The point of my long rambling posts is just to try and get others to think about it from a realistic view.

    If you are a cheater~ how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot and the person you loved ,loved someone else? Wouldn't you want to know? If things are bad it is your personal responsibility to try and work things out or end it with your spouse ( or SO). No excuses hold up. They are all lame. If your needs aren't getting met then voice those needs or break it off before you go somewhere else. It's only right. What are you gonna do if your spouse comes back around and screws around on you? What the flip are you gonna say? If you have no problem finding a cheating partner then guess what? Other people are attracted to your spouse to. You don't have to stay with them because of X, Y, Z. They WILL find someone else and forget about you if you leave because, " You're not happy". If you're not ,chances are, they aren't either! What they won't forget is being betrayed. Why are you staying? Be honest with yourself. If you wanted to leave ,you would. truth is , you don't really want to.

    If you are the other woman~ You and your cheating partner's actions have the potential for destroying lives. It will never go away. The effects will last for the rest of the lives of everyone involved. You will not pass go , you will not collect $200. Know why. If they cheated because of lame excuse X, Y, Z, what do you think they are going to do when you aren't " meeting their needs"? Lets face it. No one can meet one person's needs all the time. We can only try to the best of our ability and expecting someone to meet all your needs is unrealistic and selfish. Who the flip is meeting all the single peoples needs? Them and themselves. Think about it. unless you were just totally unaware that the person was involved you will be the only one left under the bus eventually. If the other person stays with their committed partner all other parties involved will eventually demonize you. The cheater for the sake of their own a@@ and the one cheated on because it's easier to hate you then admit they were played for a fool and admit to themselves that the person they loved is a sack of shit. I know a lot of " Other Women" and they recite what their cheating partners tell them like they are reciting scripture. in your heart you know it's a load of BS. She is so evil, blah , blah. Obviously not evil enough to leave her. Again, be honest with yourself.

    Not meaning to sound like I'm ranting or bitter. I don't hate the world although I know it sounds that way. I just want everyone to see it from a realistic perspective. if it gets through to just one person who thinks cheating is excusable I would sleep better at night. Relationships takes work, mutual respect and love on both parties parts. Cheating takes all that away. Marriage can last if two people want it to but both people have to want it to. We live is a culture now that thinks everything is disposable , including people. It's sad. I'm kinda living with that manner of thinking and it doesn't sit well with me. Do you know that in a study done on unhappily married couples , when asked again how they felt about their marriage five years later they were happy? Marriage goes through cycles. it's just hanging in there and trying to work it out. Sometimes it takes month, sometimes years. Going outside the marriage is not going to fix it. Coming as a third wheel into a marriage isn't going to help you. If they are broke when you become involved , they will still be broke even if they do leave their spouse for you.

    Fixing your marriage doesn't just mean fixing what you don't like about your partner. It means adjusting your expectations of what it is you expect and fixing yourself and your partner trying to do the same. Being realistic within what you know about the person. Respect and understanding for each other goes a long way during those rough patches. Sorry for the long post guys. I know a lot of cheaters and other women. When the truth comes out of their mouth it usually isn't love if you know what I mean. They are as confused as the poor wronged spouses are or are gonna be. I'd say that 98% of the time the cheater got attracted to someone and let it get carried away from the stories I'm told again and again. When the fog lifts they are VERY regretful. In my case his fog never lifted. Eight years after it was over he was still crying on my shoulder about how he loved her. He did that when he finally came out and admitted it to me. maybe it was the real thing and who am I to try and stop the real thing? i just don't appreciate him trying to tell me that I am his soul mate when he knows he doesn't feel that way just so I'll stay. The girl he loves ( or loved) doesn't want him but that doesn't give him the right to waste my life because of his fear of being alone. I'm at a crossroads at the moment and not sure what direction I'm going to be taking. At least he can take comfort in the fact that I'll be honest about whatever my mind is spinning on , good or bad. Maybe it's my Aries in Venus? LOL

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