• About happiness, I believe to each their own. each person has their own definition of happiness. but one thing is the same for all of us.

    if we do not love ourselves, then we will not be able to love others.

    because in everything, we have to start with ourselves.

    if we can't forgive ourselves for our wrongs, how can we forgive others?

    if we can't accept ourselves for who we are, we can't accept others for who they really are

    if we don't accept and love ourselves, nobody and nothing else can make us happy.

    I don't have all the riches in the world, but I have a home, a beautiful pet, a great (and sometimes annoying) family, a husband that accepts me for who I am and I accept him for who he is - someone I share my burdens and joy with

    I'd rather be alone than sharing my life with someone who doesn't accept me for the person I am. I take commitments seriously, I wouldn't enter a commitment with someone who doesn't take it seriously.

    There are 2 in the marriage and both are equal. Both have to contribute to the life of the relationship and making it last. If one breaks the commitment, then there is no longer a commitment.

    Again that's just my thoughts. To each their own.

  • WOW what a thought provoking thread. I just read through again and wasn't aware things were heated at all and went back to see what I missed! Boy, this would make a great book--stories of infidelity. I think it would bring the human element to an otherwise judgemental subject. There is no black and white or no simple just don't do it. We all have lessons and journeys and Karma that has an agenda of it's own Do I regret my obssession with the man--yes yes yes. Did it teach me hard lessons yes yes yes. Was it cheating even though we never did IT? Yes it was if you count the energy I gave it. If we came into this world perfectly evolved--what would be the point! I think it is universal for woman in there youth to be looking outside themselves for filling the empty place inside--as we grow into wisdom and self impowerment we need that less. I've enjoyed the honest sharing in this thread. As a writer I am very fascinated with people's real lives and challanges--how we are all the same yet each very unique! Life is mystery--no matter how psychic we are.

  • I'm with you Blmoon..WOW

    Witchone & Leoscorpion... talk about thought provoking...I am just speechless.. There really is this part of me that wonders, what the heck gives me the right to Mandate my husbands activities...on the other hand..I think the Scorpio hand..The thought of anyone else touching him, Drives me Crazy...

    Gotta go and have someone arrested.. (My job) LOL...

  • Had to come back to say. That another woman should Not in my opinion..Seduce a Married Man.....Unless the WIFE is fully aware of the side action, and is open to it...

    But then I can't help but wonder why would this type of couple be married, Swingers & those that don't care what the other party is doing. Shouldnt they just be s*x buddies or just friends Why get Married, There is a Fidelity clause within the Vows of the Marriage Ceremony..

  • This discussion hits very close to home for me. Iam the wife, of the husband, who went thru a middle age crisis and had an affair with a 22yr old woman (same age as our son), 2 years ago. We have been married for 23yrs. At the time, we had been married 21 years. The affair only lasted 5 months, because my husband went to prison soon after, He knows he betrayed me and he knows it will take time for me to learn to trust him again--but, we have nothing but time now. I believe in KARMA. And I believe that karma got them both, full circle! The woman knew we were married....she had been a part of our family for several years. The past haunts me, terribly. But, I love my husband and people make mistakes, and Iam willing to forgive him. I might be judged, but, it is my choice.

  • Healing Water

    I tried to imagine--without laughing because my old f a r t can hardly keep up with me let alone another on the side--but if I did catch him I'm with you--somethings going get broken and they'd better run. Of course once I settled down I'd get my head back but I'm pretty sure that's why we have the "heat of passion" murder defense. It's very real and dangerouse stuff! I have a dear friend--not a crazy bone in her body and really a very calm person YET she called me one night years ago shocked with herself having suspected her husband once again (he was a musician) found his car outside a hotel room he was sharing with his fling and she pounded on his door like a mad woman then went in her trunk got out the jack and shattered the windshield of his car--then drove home. She couldn't believe she had done that but admitted it sure felt good. They stayed married many years and he ended up dying a sad death with cancer. During his cheating years she finally gave up trying to stop his wandering--and had a fling of her own in Paris where she wrote a damn good novel. As they got older their marriage evolved.and he did change. Like I said--everyone's got their own crazy story!

  • Blmoon,

    Your story brougth to mind my stepfather who also being a musician cheated on my Mother many times with woman he would meet at his gigs. Finally, the last time she caught him she moved out in the middle of the night and they divorced. He married the 25 year old woman he was cheating with. When he won't put the deed to the house in her name, she divorced him 2 months later. My mother and stepfather have reconciled the marriage and I think he has changed his ways but only after a good shot of Karma.


  • LIVE and learn luvslife--LIke I said there are really complicated stories beneath the surface. That married man I was infatuated with all those years/ Left his wife of 34 years for a MAN! And people think we writers have to make up stuff. He claimed it was I who helped him be honest and set himself free to reveal his own truth. Lucky me.

  • I have been reading the whole thread. Affairs are hurtful but to me it is the lying and deceit that goes into the affair that is most damaging. I think it is natural for men and women to be attracted to the opposite sex. I'm in a long term relationship and I find other men attractive as my significant other finds other woman attractive. For that reason, I might be able to justify a one night stand but what I don't understand is when affairs become more intimate. I have been in a situation where my partner had an affair that lasted for 2 years and the cheater living a double life. I think I would just be single if I had that much attachment to 2 men but that is just me. I don't understand how a person can say they "love" someone and cause so much hurt and destruction. I'm not even talking about the couples who are just settling for the sake of children or to avoid loneliness. I'm talking about individuals who want both relationships and refuse to "get of the fence".


  • I find emotional affairs so disturbing. ONS are forgivable. People are only human and make mistakes. I just think if a person were to fall in love with someone other than their spouse they should tell the spouse ( or significant other) and let them decide for themselves. Not force them to live in a lie. I had a friend of mine recently told me that he never loved the woman he spent over twenty years with who happened to be the mother of his children. Yet he was angry at her for being unfaithful ( which he had done himself). I was shocked that he wasted so much of this woman's life whom he had no feeling for. I felt sick to my stomach when he told me this. He selfishly wasted this woman's life all the while pursuing a girl young enough to be his daughter. * gag* I can't understand why women would want to be the other woman. The whole relationship is built on lies. If the person who is involved won't leave their partner for you than you can bet that you are number 2. Who wants to be second string when there is so many people out there who want to be faithful and give their love to one person? In the situation of an affair, everyone is getting played. You have a hurt bewildered spouse, the other woman who is playing herself thinking something good can come out of this and the cheater who thinks they can have their cake and eat it to. In this situation if someone is not playing you then you are playing yourself. Just my two cents worth. Real love isn't pretty but worth it . Affairs are built on fantasy and reality will sink sooner or later. The grass may be greener on the other side until you realize it takes the same **** to grow it!

  • I am reading all your stories and I just wanted to post a tid bit on my behalf. As I am sure it's not far off from what I have read-- I wanted to post it just the same.

    A little over a year ago I met a man who I knew was married as he knew I was as well. I was in the middle of a seperation from my exhusband at the time and he (the guy) claimed he was unhappy and thinking over how to "plan his escape".

    I seperated from my ex. He stayed. When I saw he was making no move to "escape" I broke it off. He let me walk away.

    What I learned from all this is--- Men don't leave for the other woman. They only leave when their wife finds out and she tosses them out on their @ss. If she never finds out they most likely will never leave.

    A VERY FEW leave-- Almost all stay. And I don't care what they tell the other woman "the kids", "money" "her mother/father is sick" whatever, they don't leave.

    They don't leave because when push comes to shove--- their life is intertwined-- filled with history and memories. They are not just leaving her they are leaving her family, giving up a lifestyle, friends, a home they have become accostume to as well.

    Men hate change. They'd rather just cheat-- have their cake and eat it too, oh, and the same goes for women.

    Just my opinion.

    Ladies, thank you for letting me vent


  • The funny thing about men not leaving thier wives, is they don't leave their mistresses either, it will be she who walks away even after they've been caught they don't won't let you go. Have their cake and eat it too

  • Well here's one that might shock you married folks because I was completely naive about it until I was single again. Dating sites are loaded with men AND women looking for a fling. That's how I got involved with my married guy. He lied all the way through. Seriously, it never occurred to me that married people would use dating sites. Here I was being cautious about other types of "predators" and these guys come off so nice and normal and sincere, lol. Who knew.

    I was on a site for only three months and met four men who admitted later that they were married. A variety of excuses. The lies didn't bother them because they didn't see any practical way out of their marriages at this point (money & kid issues) and their romantic lives with their spouses had fizzled. They seemed to have just thrown in the towel as far as trying to please anybody, and were trying to please themselves.

    I actually still chat on-line with one of the other married men I met. He's younger than me, only been married 5 years and their sex* life is almost nonexistent. I think he likes talking to me because I was married for so long - likes to get my insight, and he really does wish things were different in his marriage. He says he's tried to talk to his wife and it goes nowhere, it hurts him deeply and he feels rejected. Loves everything about his wife except that she won't come to bed with him. I don't hold out much hope of them being together the rest of their lives, but he says they're talking about starting a family now. There's a great way to make a strained situation worse! But in general his needs go unmet, and his ego and self-esteem are hurting. He hasn't left the dating site either. I don't ask him what he's up to. I know what he was looking for when he met me. I just tell him to be careful... and keep trying to get through to his wife about what he feels and make sure he's paying attention to what she needs as well. Talk from his heart and don't hold back. Cross my fingers for them both.

    Anyway, heads-up to any single folks thinking about trying dating sites and married folks too I guess. You're spouse doesn't have to leave the house to find some "emotional affairs" that may very well lead to bigger things. Mind you I said married men AND women are out there. Just because my experience is with men, I know a couple of women playing that game too.

    Yep, life sure can be.........unexpected.

  • Jenever7, I simply cannot understand why... On the thread How to Seduce a Virgo Man..you recently posted, that you hold the Virgo Mans, wife responsible..for the fact that you are having an affair her husband. You hold her responsibility that you are sleeping with her husband..…Jen do you really believe what you are saying…I’d much rather believe you are just saying this for the reaction factor & not that you really believe it… Why do you think such a Statement to be True…because HE told you she doesn’t find Value in him…In my opinion this man is going to say anything to you, to continue to be able to come and go, when HE is available…I’d bet your bottom dollar that you are not the first and probably not the last affair for Her Husband… Didn’t you say you found each other on a Dating website…and haven’t you said that even after consummating your affair with him You caught him on another dating Site still out looking (humm) You say that you have found his wife on Facebook or somewhere, and SHE believes that she has a happy marriage…She must not know about you…

    I will say some of the post on this thread.. have helped me understand that this issue is Not so Black & White especially Blmoons friend on her last post…that married couple did it to each other.. But in your case Jen..I have to honestly say (It’s just not right)… Because you are actively seducing this man, You are studying how to be closer to him, how to make him happy, what you can do to come off more appealing…If my memory serves me correct.on your other post…You felt he was trying to pull away…but you didn’t want to let go! And you say you hold his wife responsible!..You say you would like to sit down and have a conversation with her..would you tell her that Yes I’ve studied up on, how to seduce your husband…(I mean no disrespect to you personally & forgive me for saying)..but If I were her I would probably hurt You..and there is a Legal Defense as was pointed out earlier that she can claim after the damage was done…..

    (This is what I feel today, sitting here now, but if this situation ever shows up at my own Door..Hopefully I surprise myself with my own reaction, reality is that married men & women are attracted to other people, I guess it would depend on how an attraction gone to far would be presented to me)

    Plz Understand that you are mere after thought of the angst that I feel for the Married Man who has taken those vows, (I Do Agree) That, He is the one who took them and it is His responsibility to keep them..But, how could you set about Hurting and potentially causing Miserable Pain to another woman…and maybe your thought is that her pain doesn’t matter because You love her husband, ..if that is the case then why say..

    That you hold her responsible…

    More importantly...why would you do this to yourself...Yes I've read how he disappoints you when he doesnt show up..when he's on line but doesnt talk to you..when he doesn't call you...Why do you put your self through this??

    I have too many Interactions on my Job..with women that have been hurt by this type of thing.. and I feel all of their Pain as if it is My Own…

  • Reading all these different posts it's amazing all the perspectives--dilusions--fears and circumstance. But no matter the differences I'm seeing a very comman thread that runs through all of them--PAIN! That's how I remember mysef in my youth--full of pain and my husband had his own pain and our marriage reflected that pain in a way that could not fill our needs---even though we loved each other very much and still do after 38 years. Now I can't imagine cheating in any shape or form but this kind of wholeness didn't just come overnight. My girfriend with the cheating husband--I know it gave her a lot of pain. She knew he didn't love any of them and he would never leave but I remember thanking God my husband wasn't like that because I did get to see how it did cause her a lot of pain. I never got too close to him so I have no idea where he was coming from but I'm thinking perhaps he had some painful thing haunting him as well. We've heard a lot about unplanned hook ups but not as much from those who seduce a married man first on purpose regardless if he hit on them. I wonder if it's about abandondment issues. Maybe someone stole daddy now they're going to steal him back with every taken man they can. Or maybe some people are so so angry with deep rage it's an act of hostility hiding behind a mask disguised as love. Or, maybe people are just selfdestructive and it is an act of disrespect to themselves as much as it is to the other parties it involves.Then again, maybe this writer has too much imagination! Tells us more people.

  • actually that's nothing new : married people on dating sites

    I used to chat a lot, on any kind of forums. and on all of them, there are always married person looking for cyber s ex. So I won't be surprised if they are on dating sites too. With the webcam technology it is even worse.

    That's why I never used webcam again LOL I barely found anyone that wants to chat without it, but when I turned it on, it wouldn't be just chat anymore.

    I quit online chatting for many years now probably 8 or 9 yrs now. And the dating sites, I never tried them. I was going to, but it turned out I met the man I married so it never did happen.


    yeah I was wondering the same thing. Swingers got married? Kind of weird. But from what I heard, could be just gossips. They were not swingers at first. After a while though they wanted variety and so swinging they go. I actually watched it on the news too, a swinging couple saying that they go swinging because they don't want to cheat LOL

    oh well, whatever 🙂 I suppose they don't call it cheating because they are both there and they know what each other is doing. Doesn't make sense to me, but then again probably I'm just traditional hahaha

  • HealingWater - don't be mad at me for the things that scare you. And "yes" I do and will continue to say that his wife bears her share of responsibility for this. You judge me without any consideration of the possibility that her husband is what pains her. They pain each other. I don't know if my guy cheated on his wife before me. Does it matter? I actually believe that he doesn't right now. Will he in the future? Who knows, depends on us I suppose. If he does I don't think I'll feel a need to hurt him, or whoever he's been with. I'd take my disappointment and go. "Yes" I would be sad, just as I've been sad over any other relationship that's ended. I do invest myself in this relationship right now, because...well, you won't understand it, but because things feel right with him. The circumstances stink and it's frustrating, but it is what it is for right now. It's all in the relationship and what you have - and what you don't have in your hearts. What you want between each other and certainly how much trust you are willing to find in each other. The future is always uncertain no matter how hard you try to control it.

    You know I had a whole paragraph here defending myself but I erased it. My decision is that you are not going to pull me into the dark spaces that this issue holds in your mind and heart. Nor do I deserve to continue to bear the brunt of your ridicule. At this point all my contribution here is doing is fueling a very bad hurt in you. I will not continue.

    A friend of mine has a saying I will share with you, "those who trust the least, cling the tightest".

  • Seriously, does anyone see how illogical all this is? She isn't meeting his needs? Obviously she is meeting them enough that he isn't going to leave her and the other woman isn't meeting enough to make him leave her. All the excuses are just excuses trying to justify and rationalize something that is obviously irrational. Affairs are selfish, point blank. How is banging another person going to solve problems in the primary relationship? It won't. Running to another person is just a cowardly way of avoiding confronting your spouse with what you feel like is missing. 97% of the time if the other woman ( or man) says ," The spouse or me", they are going to be dropped like a hot rock if they stand their ground. He/ She is not going to stay with the spouse if there is no love there. The betrayed spouse is not going to stay if they feel like there is no love there. He is telling the other woman how much he loves her and how he can't live with out her. haha You can bet he is telling his spouse the same thing. If a person really wants a way out then they will find one. They are not going to just stay for the kids, financial reasons, ect... They will stay until the communication breaks down to the point that the marriage is irreparable and some people can live in denial a looooonnnng time. Most of the people I know that let go of their first marriage wish they had tried harder to work it out. Mostly it is men that tell me this and I know a lot of people. It makes me sad that they have been divorced from their first spouse 20 or 30 years and still have regrets and love for that person. I've had more than a few tell me that if the first spouse would have them back they would go on the run. They stayed in their second or third marriage because they were tired of playing the field. NOT because they had fell head over heels in love with them. It was a big wake up call for me and has lead me to try my hardest and make my marriage work. My dad still pines over my mom. They have been divorced since I was little and dad went as far as to say in front of his currant wife that he never would have divorced my mom and he still loved her. She still loves him. Sad situation. He even called her on his wedding day and told her that if there was any chance at all they could work it out he wouldn't marry the woman he is married to now. He has been married to this other woman 20 years. I would find that shocking if it wasn't for the fact that I hear this all the time from so many different people. My dad run around on my mom all the time. He would leave for another woman, miss my mom, come back. Mom couldn't stand his cake eating so she gave him the boot. My dad is a leo and my mom is a cancer BTW. Just remember that the effects of an affair last a lifetime! My mom made a snide comment how my dads main GF died not to long ago. And you know what? Dad DIDN'T attend the funeral. His relationship with this other woman lasted for YEARS. These married hearts are already taken. Find someone who can give more to you then just the words you want to hear. Find something real because these side relationships in affairs are not! It's hard for me to say that because my own spouse had an affair and I wonder if he still loves her. She has went through a hard time as of late though and he hasn't given her the time of day. Also, a friend of mine caught his wife in bed with another woman. He committed suicide right in front of her that night. She will have to live with that the rest of her life. When I see the long term effects of these affairs , the consequences are so serious I just don't see how it is justifiable.

  • LeoScorpion, If a couple decides to Swing, that Is their choice…there truly is nothing for anyone to say about the way they choose to conduct there Marriage…But still I wonder about this, I don’t wonder too much or have too much curiosity.., not unless the couple was in my face, and said what do you think about blah blah blah… lol

    Jenever7, YES…I am angry at the Actions of women like yourself..You Specifically because in addition to SEEKING to Seduce this married man, You SLANDER his Wife In the process, Yes I could be her…Any women that is married could be her… and for me.. Even more so than the affair itself…it is the fact that you said you, Hold her Responsible …you’ve said that, if she had half a clue, you wouldn’t be having an intimate affair with her Husband…

    Yes Jen women like you Scare Me…

    I previously wrote: we will have to agree to disagree…

    But you welcomed me to speak my mind even after that …Well I’ve spoken per your request

  • I think first of all you have to realize not every woman wants the same things from a man.

    There are women who are actually content with being the other woman.

    In many ways for them their time with the married man is "fun time".

    Sometimes cheating for a man is about sex or lack of a particular type of sex at home.

    Other times it's about not feeling appreciated at home but often than not is about the thrill of having something new, someone to escape to.

    She is his "escape" from all the responsibilities he has to deal with at work and home.

    In return if he well off he may be paying her rent, taking her on trips, buying her clothes, going to parties, or simply staying at her place having a romantic dinner by the fireplace.

    The other woman does not have to his laundry, pick up after him, argue about finances.

    Most likely he never or rarely sees her "in the raw" wearing rollers, no make up, and their time is their time (no kids, family, or friends to intrude).

    It's a great set up for woman who is not interested in getting married, having kids, or living a man.

    There have always been women who could care less about a man's marital status especially if he rich, powerful, or famous. (JFK, Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods, M. Ali, Donald Trump, Brad Pitt..)

    None of these men had to hide their marital status or remove their wedding rings.

    The whole world knew they were married at the time they were having affairs.

    In fact I bet if President Obama wanted a mistress there would no shortage of women willing to be his lover.

    In today's climate there various types of relationships and more women are open to seeing a married men. In fact more married women are having affairs as well as noted in the current movie "Up In The Air".

    How sacred is marriage in the country that gave you: "Who wants to marry a millionaire?",

    "The Bachelor", "Divorce Court" and numerous website that provide "hook up" services for married people looking for something on the side.

    No matter how you slice it up cheating hurts people.

    It's a selfish cowardly act.

    If someone isn't happy in their relationship they should end it.

    More often than not most people would rather cheat than end their marriage/relationship.

Log in to reply