Scorpio and Libra
Scorpio man is who I am in love with (I am a Libra woman); never have I felt this way before he is intuned with me but due to my ways he keeps his distance but yet is still attatched to me. It's like he loves/hate me for being who I am. I know that he wants total control of the relationship and he has to know that I am willing to submit myself to him; no ifs ands buts about it. He sees in me that I am intelligent and giving but he also sees in me that inner strength that pisses him off . He thinks I am spoiled ,cocky,and very snobbish. He feels that I am accustomed to getting my way and I feel he gets a kick out of telling me "NO". I know that I am not perfect and because I love him I actually stepped outside of myself and took a good look at me as a person ; I saw some things in myself that I did not like and also could be taken the wrong way. I took painful steps to change them because I love him and I am in love with him. However I want him to see it for himself and me not tell him anything. He gives me tough love in his own way and he shows his concern for me at the same time he controls every move concerning this relationship. I know that he is looking for a wife and I know he sees that wife in me however being that I am such a tough cookie I feel he deems it necessary to layout the floor plan before he takes even one step toward a relatiomnship. In my heart I know that he is doing the right thing because if he did not take the necessary steps he feels that I would be capable of hurting him and although I understand the methods he is using and it appears that I would cause him harm; I would not ever think of hurting him. I am totally loyal to him and I have gone through so much to prove it to him but it seems he wants more . I have done my best and I can't do anything more. The fact still remains ;I love him. Before meeting him I was not at all in touch with my emotions ; I was forced to face them and upon facing them I experienced pain and that pain came from my actual heart (i know what the purpose of a heart is for now). It got to a point where usually I am happy I am no longer happy I am very sad. I don't feel sorry for myself but none the less I am so very unhappy because I Love him and part of him does not believe it.
I have a Scorpio Venus and a Libra Sun. I speak from two sides of the coin here. I'm also female, but, I was raised by a single dad and I don't always "think" like one.
The issue with both Scorpio and Libra is always trust. A Libra wants to be an equal, a balanced scale. A Scorpio doesn't want to be equals - they want to own you totally and completely. Deep down, Libras utterly fear being owned completely and fully because it means, theoretically, an imbalance of power. It suggests tyranny and slavery, two totally wrong forms of injustice that drive a Libra to anxiety and upset.
You can tell him you love him all you want but if he doesn't feel he owns you utterly, if you don't show him that frankly and constantly, if he thinks for a moment you could change your mind, leave him, wander with your attention, if you have in any way made it clear that you are panicked about losing your freedom - he is distrustful that you really love him.
There's a fine line here. I have a sister who's a Gemini and the story with love there is Gemini's don't like "being tied down." They need to roam, to be free. They can be seen as fickle or experimental, never to be "relied on," they shy away from bonds.
Libras are all about partnership. Love bonds and intimacy. However, those bonds are built on trust, a trust based on equality. The moment a Libra thinks someone else is trying to have more power over them, they get wary. The Libra is utterly devoted - but only if their partner is fair, sane, balanced, and sharing in the partnership. A Libra cannot actually devote themselves 100% unless they know they can "trust" and they can only trust if they know their partner isn't going to "dominate" or "control" them. Libra's must feel free to grow, flourish, socialize, travel, be their shining selves and not held back by their partner.
So here is the conundrum. You love him, but do you trust him? Your post is filled with fear and confusion. He seems to want more than you seem able to give, or prepared to give.
He wants to know you BELONG to him, could never look at another, could never think of another, that your soul is swallowed up in his.
It's a conflict, a core conflict, and the only way to resolve past it is for both of you to make concessions. And unfortunately he's not going to see your concessions if you remain silent about them. He sees love only one way - his way. And you see love only one way - your way.
If you move forward, you have to both discuss and both compromise, actively, verbally.
I can't tell, but based on your post - his needs sound almost Dominant, as in D/s. Are you submissive? If so, then you are doing something that violates the code that will please him as your Dominant and he cannot trust you.
If you are not practicing D/s then ironically yes, the Scorpio love needs can actually be quiet power-play based and very dark and private and intimate and intense. The Scorpio wants to break down all your walls and leave them as rubble. They want to be your sole conqueror. Which means you must be conquered.
If you can't handle that, if you are an unhappy mess then perhaps this is not the relationship for you. The Scorpio can't love you any other way unless they have other ascendants and their Venus is in a sign that can work with yours.
Another thing to think about is - if your Scorpio offers himself and lets you break down all his walls into rubble, there is a fairness there. You can find fairness even in his desire to own all of you. You must simply take the same action to own and dominate him. That is frankly the only way things are going to be fair if he insists on this level of intimacy with you in the relationship.
If, however, he won't stand for you owning his soul the way he wants to own yours - then you're at an impasse, I'm afraid, and this love you share really can't turn into a healthy, long-term relationship. It'll lead to you both being immensely disappointed.
Wow..this got me thinking now. I am a Scorpio female in love with a Libra male. And we both are running from the real feelings at the moment. Eventhough we know what we feel for each other.
Relating to your explanation thmilin I am the one that needs the space to move around but I am loyal with my feelings. I am not sure where he stands at the moment on the loyalty and trust level.
Recently he was testing my reaction on his space to move since he will be travelling soon and didn't expect my reaction which was an encouraging.
Lots to think about.
Flowsco! Thanks for posting. I actually read all your threads on you and your Libra and wanted to reply, but since the last posts were back in November I wasn't sure it would be read.
Note, I was writing from a female Libran + Scorpio male point of view, and you are the reverse. I was also speaking specifically to Librasrise's issues and points she made.
From what I have read in the threads here in the forum, I am still myself fuzzy. This is because I have courted Libras, and I am a Libra.
As a Libra being courted, I can say this to help: The Libra may be charmed at first by direct suitors but will never take them seriously. That is, too much force - pressure, as LibrasLair has posted - will make a Libra balk. Think of us as a proud, beautiful horse. If you grab our reigns and yank them, or think you know best how to gallop across the land - we will buck you off, or humor you for a little while amused by your gall and then we'll buck you. Or, we'll have a happy ride with you and then when you alight, and turn around, we're nowhere to be found. LibrasLair was right about us being "difficult" to commit. The reasons for that are a little complicated.
Remember, it's all about balance. If you chase too hard - we're wary. If you don't chase enough - we're wary. If you ask too much, we hesitate. If you show no interest at all - we're insulted. We are vain. We want you to give us all the little signs - silent, often utterly nonshowy signs - that make it clear what your interest is without pressuring or demanding. If you do those things, you are asserting power. We don't like it. We want fairness and grace. Balance and patience.
As an example, I have been immensely charmed by Leos. But Leos have big booming personalities. A loud gregarious Leo can be sexy - but he can also be a boor who is a total ego-hound and sucks up everybody's time and energy and attention. To us, that is the crux of rude, and we'll be turned off.
Libras have to be courted by slow - very very slow - and very very steady, hands. If you are hot and cold, we'll distrust you. if you are showy and pushy, we'll distrust you. If you are dramatic and tempestuous, we'll distrust you. We may sleep with you, date you, hang out with you, but we'll always distrust you. And eventually, we'll leave you.
I'm not a cheater, mind you, and I know that came up with Libras. I don't cheat. Libras do lie, and most often to avoid hurting someone. In a man's case, he may lie to avoid looking like the bad guy and he may lie to make you feel better. But he won't lie to deliberately hurt you, if he's ahealthy normal human being.
Libras do, however, love the "game of the mind and spirit." This can, in superficial translation, come out to most to mean "flirting." Flirting has a romantic connotation. Libras do love to flirt romantically, but we also love games of words and wit and playfulness, and we do not mean it romantically, we mean it only as a mental game. This is an example of the sort of playfulness in centuries gone, when courtiers would make up puns and test each other and try to one-up each other - these are the sorts of games Libras love to play. Play it really well, and a Libra will fall in love with you and chase you to play the game some more.
This is how you know a Libra likes you - if they can't wait to talk to you, light up when you enter the room, sparkle and shine easily in your presence - they are gungho. But this doesn't mean they're going to chase you. What it means is the green light is on, and they now want you to play - but the green light to PLAY does not mean a green light to have sex or fall in love. It simply means they really like you.
Now what comes next is ... get the Libra to trust you. The only way to do that is to keep things nice and even and not too fast. Remember, the Libra is a scale. If you upset their balance in any way they will shy away or write you off. They need to know they can count on you. They need to know you admire them. They need to know you treasure them, miss them, want to talk to them, can't wait to get their opinion, really like the way they say and do things.
If you're close lipped (Scorpio), flippant (Aquarius), judgemental (Virgo), etc. you risk totally unsettling them.
When you do this, it doesn't mean they stop liking you. If you have good chemistry and they already like you, if you do things like get super aggressive, or pretend you don't care about them, or are irregular with your communications or unreliable about them or meeting up - you effectively stay in the friend zone. They will, as I said, play with you for sport and fun, but they will never fall in love with you, because they do not trust you. In particular if you have been giving mixed signals - a Libra is going to make you make the move and they are not going to believe you are serious until you do it.
And the move you make has to be genuine. If it is not genuine and clear cut - they're going to see right through it. When it comes to love, a Libra doesn't just fall in love. They fall in love with love, they fall lin love with the romance and the mystery, but they don't just give their heart away. That is too precious a treasure. It has to be courted, and very seriously, by someone who means it. It can't be bullied or tricked out of them. It has to be steadily, gently, lovingly, passionately wooed.
I have found over the years that the man who approaches me confidently, assuredly, knowing i don't have to give him the time of day and grateful for my attention, is a man who makes me pause. if he's charming and fast with his tongue and clever, he makes me linger. if he's handsome and charismatic and a powerful presence, he makes me flattered with his attention, and if he's slow and steady about the wooing, ever respectful of my time and attention, he slowly but surely wins my heart.
Libras are all to aware of the fickle ways of people and their hearts - they sit in the middle of the signs and advise all their friends in life and love and start out young all idealistic about it. Over time, they get wiser about how and when they give their heart and they are actually quite picky about when they give it and in which manner, all depending on how a person goes about wooing them.
This is why it can seem to people that a Libra withholds their heart, or is temporary. Some Libras do "settle" because they feel great fondness for a person, but may not actually trust and feel truly committed to them, for whatever reasons. And so long as a Libra feels "unsettled" they will never fully commit and will eventually leave because they realize things aren't balanced.
People have to look past the charm and fun - including Libras themselves. It can be hard to do.
In your case, Flowsco, your Libra didn't trust you from the beginning because of how you withheld yourself. Libras don't go out on limbs - that's swinging a pendulum way too far in one direction. When they do, it's because they really want to get to know you. There's no promise they'll still want to know you, but the fact a Libra goes that far and opens up that far is a sign of how much they favor you. That your Libra went so far to woo you means he opened himself up to trust you.
Unfortunately you didn't return his act which was, in Libran language, a complete rejection. He squirreled around with you because he felt you were squirreling around with him when he'd been so very earnest in his exchanges.
It actually takes a lot to get a Libra to forgive that, and if he's got Scorpio in Venus or Rising, like LibrasLair said, then he's going to hold that grudge for a long time and you're going to have to really work to undo that.
Libras need, similarly to Scorpios, heartfelt signs of honest affection. You can't send text messages that imply you're platonic but are sent due to romantic reasons you hope he'll translate or read in you.
Like you said, he already has you pegged. He already sees right through you. He knows what he wants, and he knows you want him. But he also knows you may not be ready and you're withholding yourself.
Libras don't have time for that. If they open up to you, they want fairness. They need you to open up to them. They need you to show the same deference they've given. Every kind act a Libra shows you demands a natural reciprocation. When you withhold, you reject the Libra, and the Libra is hurt every time you do it. Even if they don't show it, they're going to remember it, and it will slowly degrade your relationship until they are a pleasant acquaintance who wishes you well but who conveniently is never around, because they have found that all your interactions have tipped the balance into the negative.
It seems a bit harsh and tit for tat - but above all, Librans need fairness. You must truly always operate in that mode to make a Libra happy. If you have found that both of you are finding little ways to hurt each other - know that the Libra feels you started it. Childish, I know.
The only way out of it is for you to "buy credits" by overdoing it with wooing steady and slow and making it clear you are there for the long haul to woo him for good.
You can't say things like "I want you badly but I need my freedom." Say, "I want you badly" and then demonstrate with actions how much you want him to have his freedom and how much you appreciate him letting you have your own. Tenderness and loving gestures first. "Buts" and compromises later. Tip the scales in your favor first.
Thanks for your input . You can say I basically raised myself and that alone did not help any being that libra is a masculine sign any way. I know that the gift of his love is what he wants to give to me but my independence is a bit scary for him that is why I feel he wants total and complete control . We are also spiritually connected and only he and I are aware of it .I don't share my feelings about him with anyone. I protect him in my own way i guess.
I read your response to Flowsco and you are absolutely right even down to the "childish "remark because we are the children of the zodiac I should not have to explain that to you how that comes about; I'm sure you know. I just wanted to add that with Scorpio that's what comes out of me; my total innocence as pure as it gets and I can not help it and he is so into how he's feeling surrounded by his waters ; he just does'nt get it.
biggggg sigh Thank you for your honesty. It's hard. This all caught me off guard (with the libra guy I mean) and to be honest I am scared like h.e.l.l. And he knows it. I am coming out of my shell slowly and I was hoping this weekend to show a little bit more of myself since we have a date for a concert. If he doesn't be called in for his work. I explained to him where I am coming from and that I am not playing games but I don't open up that easily I have to feel that I trust the person aswell. We live in separate cities and I don't want to start wondering what he is doing when I am not around etc. A bit of self protection mabye?? I don't have a clear answer for that. Since the day we fezz up what we felt for each other it's been a bit strange. During phone calls we hardly can have a normal conversation and it's always one or the other that is running to an appointment. I try not to bother him too much since his schedule is crazier than mine.
Trust...yes ...mayor issue. We would need to see each other again and talk. He hasn't been single that long and I don't want to be the rebound girl. You know..just for his needs at the moment. I don't want to play games...and I am not playing games.
I understand a bit more better now. And as I said I have a lot to think about.
Librarise...I recognize what you mean with innocence as pure as it gets. I do have that with my Libra ....he makes me laugh and I get to relax and let my hair down (sort of speak) when it's about "casual" things. We share a crazy sense of humor. Mainly that is what caught my attention about him untill he started "investigating" me.
I understand also your feelings of not wanting to loose yourself totally when you know that your heart is already doing 100 miles per hour.
In general I am a take charge kind a woman and don't really rely on a man to do anything for me and have been doing this for a good while now. So for encountering such a sensitive man ..I don't know how to act. .
And after reading all of this I am a bit more clueless how to patch things up without me having the feeling that I am chasing him.
He commented that his previous relationship things weren't that great and he felt tied down. So I took it upon me as background info not to be breathing down his neck for everything etc.
He also commented to me that I should open up and let someone in. ( I figured he was refering to himself)
As LibrasLair and thmilin both said to take it slowly.. I am trying but now I am confused. argh.
Flowsco and Librasrise don't even know what to tell the two of you. Yours is a position I am thankful not to be in. Librarise I don't know the day your born but being at the front of the sign is different than being towards the back of it. They are more party people and want to be more on the go and your Scorpio is a home body. I really don't know exactly where I want to go with this but we don't get that deep when we are younger. Talking to someone you aren't in love with about feelings is a lot different than telling our intimate feeling to someone who can hurt us is not that easy. Knowing this about yourself you may see that the Scorpio is also hesitant to talk about it as well. They think it can be used against them to hurt them. So if they share with you then your special and they trust you. Now we have a hard time speaking about ours so we show ours in how we take care of them. How thoughtful we are. We listen to what they like so we know how to please. And that's why actions for us speak louder than words. But we want to be treated the same way. If we don't get the same in return we will eventually blow. This is equality. We do need a strong person on the otherside but if you think your going to dominate me you better keep walking. I want to be treated as an equal. You will listen to what I think about something and give me as much respect for my opinion and ideas as I give you or there is no place in the relationship for someone to be my boss. I put my pants on one leg at a time also. I am a very good partner and I will walk with you but not behind you. Flowsco I have to say the distance between you physically can work against you. It makes it kind of difficult to show how you feel. I guess some Libras will just love being lavish with things. But I am not impressed with expensive gifts or being taken to expensive places. You can take me for a hot dog and I will be happy cause you remembered I love hot dogs. Or you gave me a package of seeds for me to plant cause I like sweetpeas. Those things tell me that someone listened to me and what I have to say is important. We got a good look at Libras but you know its not all cut and dried there cause I am on the cusp of Scorpio and influenced there and my rising sign will be an influence too. But thmilin you did explain us very well. We want balance and to be treated as an equal. I don't know if I would put up with your man for long Librarise but that's me and I am older now and don't put up with what I used to. I don't over look what I did when I was younger and I am much more picky about my men now than ever before. I wish you the best both of you. And the male influence in me is stronger than ever.
LibrasLair.. I just hung up with him. I texted him first telling him what was on my mind. But he called before reading what I wrote. The conversation basically covered what I wrote him about. Me wanting to get to know him better and visa versa. But he was back to his "shrug" me kinda way. I guess this was the t.i.t. for tat thing. And he is also like this when someone rubbed him the wrong way (could be anybody).
As I suspected the weekend is off. Couldn't get a replacement and so he is on duty. He was bummed about it. To be honest when he is like this I really clam up. Feels like we are back to square one. I hope I am wrong. We will see. I have an appointment at the healthclub next week so I will see him before he goes abroad.
Hopefully I can make up my mind by then...before or after.
The distance can be an issue ..and some time ago he did "suggest" me moving but I am not willing to move way over that side. My work/life is this area and his is in that one.
It's a bit too early to consider all of this since I don't know were this all is heading.
I now know that physically he is very interested...lol.
This libra guy isn't that lavish with things. Since he grew up with almost nothing and worked himself up. I do feel a bit ackward when he wants to buy me stuff. In that way he is really a nice guy and his ex did take advantage of it all. I don't want to echo what she did.
Flowsco maybe he was acting like that cause he was disappointed about missing the concert. lol How long will he be abroad?Is he moving there after tell you to move closer to him? Well I wish you luck. You might come up with some little thoughtful thing to give him to make his life easier while he is abroad. Or a picture of yourself. Or some of his favorite music. Just be thoughtful. Not expensive. That will tell him more than the words and you will make points. Take in something he likes to eat when you see him at the healthclub. I don't know some fruit or your towel with you perfume on it to take with him on his trip. Be creative.
LibraLair ..I was thinking along the same lines as you. I was considering to get him some music and take a carrot cake to the health club since we are heading to the holidays. He will be away for a few days till New Year. But I will get some more details on that when I get there.
What a thing.. a 40+ plus woman all messed up...lol.
I will keep you posted.
Don't worry about it I was at my best in my 40's if you know what I mean. You'll do fine and be sure to tell him that the cake will freeze if he doesn't eat it all. He will have some when he gets back home. You know it's no lie a way to a mans heart is threw his stomach. I have always said that's why they married me was for my cooking. And now days to find a woman who cooks is something to hold on to!
When it comes to my Libran brothers and sisters you have to be able to attract us on a mental/,spiritual level first, and then everything else falls into play. We are romantics; meaning we set the stage but alot of times we have to be shown how to love (child like qualities interfere but it can be a beautiful thing once we become uninhibited) due to emotional disconnection; what I mean by that is we tend to throw our emotions away so that we won't experience the pain again and what I mean by that is somewhere along the line in childhood we experienced rejection ,hurt feelings (just like everyone else) however its extra shameful to us; we don't like it so we fix it ; stopping anything negative before it reaches our hearts. Trust just like scorpios is a very big thing to us; even when you think we trust you we probably don't that's why we never lock the door and most time leave it ajar(metaphorically speaking that is) so that if need be we will politely and quietly make a swift exit if we get the slightest hint of someone trying to play games with us. I strongly believe that if asked "who is best for Libras" when it comes to showing us how to love passionately I would have to say Scorpios but then again you guys have a some deep issues as well that we would have to solve before we can even begin to get started. Oh yea and just like scorpios libras a controlling themselves however we are very smooth about it; this goes especially for the men of both Scorpio and Libra we just attain control differently. one other thing we analyze everything ; your words ,walk,self esteem and habits .....reminds you of someone hug? The main thing is we are not intentionally trying to cause any harm. One other thing .....talk to us and not at us; we do not respond well to Barking ...not at all.
LOL..I know what you mean. To be honest he had a friend checking me out through a conversation about cooking. I said I couldn't cook because I found they were ganging up on me. Then I said I can manage a pizza into the oven..lol
I can cook pretty good. And I think he has a pretty good idea that I can!!
I fully understand what you mean with being emotional disconnected. He told me about some not so nice experiences when he was younger. He tends to tell me these things on a regular basis it's just like I trigger them and he shares.
That's why in the period that I was working through some issues I understood him very well and told him so. Then he backed off for a moment.
On those level I understand him fully and I can reply to those needs. I am just afraid to scare him away if I show him how much I care at the moment.
The man has had relationships where his trust has been damaged aswell eventhough he talks like it doesn't bother him. I know he is scared aswell gosh.
I listen to the inbetween lines when he is talking but all that has been explained to me tonight was new to me in the sense of sign.
My mistakes in my previous relationships was that I just head in without taking time to know the person and now I am trying that and the guy isn't as simple. sighs
I know I make him nervous I have seen that side of him. And sometimes I think the distance give him time to compose himself...well it does the same for me.
I analyze allot too. He says that I think to much..lol.
And I will love to just talk to him...if he just stopped running for a moment or two.
He and I have allot to talk about we just have to make/get time to do so.
I am September born and he is November born the last few days . You are right it has been and still is very difficult between us. He has a problem with the way I communicate easily with people and especially men and the fact that I don't care too much for females either counts as a strike against me. I am not a flirt but he thinks I am. I am very personable and just love getting to know people and about their interests. I love to learn,laugh,live and love. He likes that....only with him. Don't get me wrong when I am with him he makes it very worth my while , he treats me like I am the only one on earth that exists , I love it ; I feel loved. now if only we can straighten out all the insecurities that puts a damper on this relationship!!
You will have a much easier time with Libra than I will with Scorpio I'm sure show him how to love and once he has broken those chains he will love you like you have never been loved ...that deep spiritual ride ...you know what I am talking about...the one most are afraid to get on. By the way buy him a couple pairs of soft cashmere socks (it does'nt cost much at all) something tangible like that and guaranteed he will be thinking of you everytime...not to mention he'd probably appreciate it as well as that cake. while he is away send him post cards and little notes guaranteed success and most of all mean it !!!
one other thing we are usually 10 steps ahead of you whileat the same time 2 steps behind you. Also it's not the gifts it's the meaning behind the gifts; just like its not the words that you say ;its the intentions behind the words. We give words no power at all be it Negative or Positive .our thought process ( would be when it comes to anything negative is) " you're trying to hurt us" and after we have established that all bets are off . When we have had enough we disconnect and crush that's it. We can do it very diplomatically(usually) however if you are very unlucky we will give it to you barbarically but that's very rare. Either way look at it you will get it. If you love us hard we will love you harder (once learned)...so there you have it1