How do you seduce a Virgo man?
@HealingWater: hi HealingWater,
thank you very much for sharing your personal experiences. I've been rereading yours and Jenever7's comments the last couple of days, thinking of what to do next with my guy. I ended up sending him an email, telling him about how much fun I had at work the other day when other guys showed interest in me, and I guess this worked as an incentive as you said, as I at least got a reply from him after some days silence; it's really funny, though, how he doesn't show or say anything about how he finds it, and instead says I should keep up the flirtations and that good men don't just fall out of trees. I can't believe he even encourages me to go on and get me other guys.
Then I decided to do exactly what you have done and just be bold. It's in my aries personality anyway I wrote him I can't stop thinking about him and don't want other guys, but him; tried to make the mail not sound very emotional, put in a couple of paragraphs about other things, but am actually expecting a rather cold reply, if any at all; I'm almost sure he'll start defending himself again and maybe he'll even break contact with me this time, but at least I feel good, that I'm not playing games and have told him the truth, and if he cannot accept it or doesn't want to have anything to do with me, then it's his problem. I will feel hurt, but will have to live with it somehow and will be able to move on with my life.
@Jenever7: hi Jenever7,
thank you so much for your long elaborate post and for sharing your own experiences with your guy. I do really appreciate it; it sounds very wise and yes, it was what I needed to hear; it was supportive, positive and encouraging. Thank you once again.
If you read what I wrote to HealingWater above, then you probably already know what I did, after having taken into account the posts from both of you, as you also said, that if being myself is too scary for him, then the relationship will end anyway. So I decided to be myself, be open to him and just see if he can accept that. I think I'm ready to accept such an adorable stick-in-the-mud, because I'm willing to make a few changes as well that will improve me as a person even if I don't get him...like cleaning more often, being more organized and paying more attention to my looks to make that classy woman out of me, whom my Virgo guy probably desires and who I would in fact like to be. The guys I've been with until now never cared about all this stuff and I lacked the motivation and somehow never felt like a real woman with them. I guess this will change if I manage to get my Virgo.
What do you mean when you talk about the world being alive and full of adventures and your stick-in-the-mud Virgo guy? I understand they have to analyze everything. Do they have difficulty making decisions? Don't they see opportunities? Hmm, I guess not, judging from my guy and his pessimistic view of things. Have you found a way to make your guy see things more positively or listen to you? I learned Virgos don't like being told what to do, but do they take advice? How would your guy react if you gave him different ideas, like different ways to solve a problem? Would he be that stick-in-the-mud, unable to decide which way to go or would he consider all alternatives and pick the best one, if he himself didn't have a solution to the problem, of course? I guess the stick-in-the-mud expression says it all, but nevertheless, it's worth asking.
@Caprius: thanks for your answer, Caprius. I'm so crazy about the guy, that I can't stop myself from loving him. I've tried a couple of times, but it doesn't work. It was written somewhere that Aries take such relationships in which they can't have the guy as a challenge and fight till they get him. I think this is exactly the situation with me. I'm not sure if I'll get him, but at least I would have done everything possible. I don't believe these guys get evil, but I know they are extremely difficult to live with. I can imagine how you feel when he doesn't have 10 minutes for you. Isn't there really a way to explain to them that one needs to spend more time with them? What happens if you tell him that you feel as if everything else is more important than you? I actually asked my guy if other things were more important than his friends, but since it was in an email, I never got a reply.
Hello Caprius, nice to see you here, still at it eh? Lol. I'm not surprised, obviously I haven't given up yet either. Now see, it's so strange to me that you two can fight like you do and still make things work. You clearly have so much love and patience for this man and he appears to totally take advantage of that fact. But, strangely, and maybe this will make sense to only you, I can also understand that his love (?) attachment to you is what allows him to think he can get away with it. He knows you love him and are standing by him, and even though he appears to be a jerk on the surface, he sticks with you (which apparently is supposed to be enough to tell you that he loves you too).
This reminds me of a time when I was so angry with my Virgo that I was ready to dump him for good. At some point in my raging he said to me, "I don't know why you play these games with me, it's so tiresome, you're like a spoiled child." I was shocked. I was spilling my guts, telling him I couldn't do this anymore, and he thought I was playing a game, trying to get his attention. I asked how he could possibly think that I was playing a game and he said, "because you know that I'm not going anywhere, so you just act like a selfish brat to get the attention you want". I replied, "did it ever occur to you that, in fact, that is not what I think at all? That I never assume that you are going to just take whatever I dish out and stick around no matter what? That any time I reach the point of being this angry with you that the consequence might actually be that we never see each other again? Because that IS how I see it, that I risk losing you anytime I actually get to a point of threatening that I might end things".
He was clueless. He apparently is so set on sticking with this relationship in his mind, that he wasn't even thinking that I could be serious about leaving him. There is no moral to my story for you here, by the way. Just that you reminded me of that incident and to this day, thinking back on it, I still can't quite understand what happened there or how he really views our relationship. It just seems so abnormal to me that he would put up with my ranting and not take me seriously. And yet, there's a patience in him about it, like he just accepts that we're going to have disagreements and he's just taking it in stride. Still, the problem in all of that is that in my mind we make no progress. He lets me get angry and rant, he doesn't change his ways, just tolerates it and "waits for the storm to pass". I think that if I ever do leave him, he will be hurt, but something in him will just calmly go on without me. These guys just aren't motivated to go out of their way to give you any more than what they give you...whatever that is, lol. To my Virgo it's A LOT. At least he thinks it is, and I guess the reality is, if he thinks he's giving it his all, then that's all there is.
I laughed out loud over what you said about the "space" thing. Agh, just went through this again with my guy. He was having family issues so he started avoiding me. Mind you, I didn't know he had family issues, it was just that in time it became obvious that he was avoiding me. When I was finally able to confront him and ask, "what is going on?" He explained that he was in a very bad mood and protecting me/us from his bad attitude. He didn't want to unintentionally take out his anger on me. So I was like, "well, you could have just told me that up front and not left me hanging thinking that I had done something to cause you to ignore me". So next thing of course, here we go, he says, "can you just give me some space please". So I was feeling rejected and I said, "sure, I'll give you some space, what do you need from me, do you want me to just go away for a while...?" I'm thinking he could need weeks, or months, who the heck knows. Then (and this made me laugh) he said, "no, just give me a couple of days". And sure enough, I just ignored him for a couple of days and he came back all better.
So I don't know Caprius, I guess it all comes down to how much we can tolerate in these guys. I know what you mean about the "evil" side, but it's all a game of words I think. All about getting a reaction and in some ways taking attention off of their own fears and vulnerability. Can't get hurt if you're fighting. It's like being loving is a weakness that they don't want to reveal, BUT, I am figuring out that my guy feels things very deeply, gets hurt easily and the wounds do not heal quickly. Waaay worse than us Cancers on that point, if you ask me. He also likes to seek revenge on those who hurt him. Not physical, mind you, but mental revenge. He likes people to "learn a lesson". Ultimately, I think that's the trouble with Virgo's; too much mental energy clouding out their hearts, but their hearts are there, and just as emotional as yours or mine.
As I say, I have no advice for you here, but I do enjoy being able to share our confusion together, haha! You take care.
@aries9986, Hi Aries9986. I got a aries sister too. Umm will roughly know how you feel . Yes i agree with you, my sister like a pieces guy and so much patience she can give and she can wait till she gets him, and yes she get him at last. The relationship ended in 2 yrs. My sister now have a cancer bf. Same situation she waited him for 1 yr, a lot of tactics used to seduce this guy =x , and a lot of changes she willing change for him just to get him because why i said "just to get him" is she having relationship with other guy at the same time. My question is are you really want to get him only ?? or you can love him till your end of life ?? Virgo will think and analyze this question before he commit to you.
My lovely Virgo have a lot of female friends. I believe there is 1 or 2 actually have feelings to him. I asked my guy, he got a lot of female friends, i believe if u asked 1 of them to be your girlfriend and i am sure you will get her. His answer is i don't see them as a target for marriage but i see you as a target for marriage. How sweet are this charming dudes. He tell me his old story that he likes a girl, why he don't get into relationship with her because he don't feel secure with her. Secure here means don't know whether this girl can give him future ?? This Virgo want a girl that can provide them something in return such as family ?? work stability ?? etc etc .. Just something in return for the care he provides to you. So here i want to say is he knows what kind of woman to date. If he likes that girl, doesn't mean he wants to be in relationship with her . All the virgos are same ?? i am not sure.
Yes, i asked him. He said he knows that as a bf, he needs to spent time with me, he will know when. He don't like me to ask him how to do, what to do. He will know how, and when to do
So if we want them to understand, what we need then is to tell them gently slowly how we feel . If not he will feel that you are insulting him :(. So he is always the right one. He said today morning i already chat with you and afternoon already sms you and you still not contented with it. This counted i already spent time for with you. Then i asked him, love can be counted like that ?? In a day u enough with one glass of water ?? you enough with one meal ?? Why you still ask for more ?? He ask me nonsense and i tell him nonsense ?? lolx i know i am childish.
umm yeah, he told me if i were to break up with him he will not hold me back. This sound like i am not important for him at all, and nothing sound like he want to keep this relationship and i asked him straight forward. I ask him to put down all his self-disciplined, his righteous, his fact, his theory and answer me, if i were break up next minute, are u ready to let go and can you let go. He said nope and i am important to him. But i am sure he will not hold me back because he can't provide me happiness in the relationship and he hopes me to find someone better then him to give me happiness.
Sorry Aries9986 if i offended you. I hope you can see something from my story and review back if you can stand this type of guy that can make u sooo happy and deep sad next minute. and decide whether you can be with him till you gets old but of course they are worth for me
Hi Jenever7, haha its alright, i just like to read your story so much. Seems so alike all virgos sound almost the same ?? haha ... Umm i did learn something from him too, its actually i have my faults (i don't know, he says its my fault) so i admit it because he is alright right but what he explain is correct. I agree willingly, but i won't follow the way they are =x .
Oh ya, i want to share something =x
i found there is 2 types of vigos.
1 is those playing with feelings
2 is those who really honest.
My ex is a virgo. Our relationship ended in 5 months. He told me he loves me so much, i am the most important woman in his life. haha i was 19 that time. Got cheated by him. Haha still young and easy to believe people. Now recall, i really don't know what he loves about me, what make him i am the most important woman. Whatever he told me was a lie. I remember i called him when he in colleague, no pick up whole day. reason left the phone at home. 2nd time, phone silent. haha i should suspect something already. When he use my pc and he accidently saved his password in it. Hmm check his contact list, he got 5 darling including me. hahaha
His display pict was other girl. When i ask, he said put for fun ... wtf ... What he wants was sleep with me and i gave him my 1st time. What he wants is someone to company him when he is lonely. He want the account (a game that we used play together). He want gifts and i am so dump and follow all his wishes. He just use me. T.T
Before my virgo got into relationship with me, he are some kind of a person like above but he is not till that bad. Just he wants someone to company him for chatting. I read at some other forum, Virgo did really play with feelings. Be careful with them. Virgo that honest will not easily tell you that they love you. Will not easily commit in a relationship. This is the different i found out.
Before this my virgo doesn't introduce me as a girlfriend to his friend. I feel so hurts. He takes like 1 and 1/2 months to feel secured and one day he surprise me by telling his friends i am his girlfriend and he tells me he is ready to meet my parents. After he meet my parents, he asked me if i was ready to meet his parents Hmm this guy really slow. But i really appreciate it and i also admire that slow is their way to be serious and they think and analyze carefully if they can really make it.
haha nothing much here just some sharing and grumbling
aries9986, I need to say that I wasn't advising you to give your Virgo an Ultimatum or come out with a really Bold statement to him, I was sharing my experience of how it was that we came to be married in the first place...
Oh Dear, I'm a lil nervous for you..I truly hope this guy doesn't say or do anything to hurt you, because of advice you took from Me :(,
I had been in a serious relationship with My Virgo at the time that I said that those things too him, I wasn't questioning how we felt for each other, that was understood, we were at the point of (where do we go from here)... He was at my apartment all the time or I was at his, we were together 80% of the time, sharing Everthing, I should have pointed that out in my previous post, you don't want to make such a Bold Statement unless your sure of your standing....
I truly hope that all turns out well between you and the Virgo
I feel like I may have stuck my foot in my mouth
Hi Aries, Well I am happy that you decided to just express yourself more to him and that you feel good about it. It's not easy being so open and putting yourself at risk that your feelings and sentiments will be rejected, but it feels so good to live in truth, that I think that even if things don't turn out the way you want them to, you will always feel content knowing that you offered him something wonderful and he had the opportunity to receive and appreciate that - or not.
A word of warning for you, be careful about talking so casually about other men or you will push him away. I don't care what he said about you finding other men. It's bull. What he's really doing is feeding you some rope and he will let you hang yourself with it. Rule number 1 is that there are NO other men.
Now, if you want to score some big points, find a way to let him know how much he has inspired you to improve yourself. Tell him what you told us here. This will make him feel good and, if he truly has made you aware that you have work to do on yourself, your sincerity will come through as well. Both are very appealing. Realize that you may open the door for him to suggest other improvements, lol, but if he does, realize as well that he may actually be correct. I've learned a few things about myself from my Virgo. He told me a couple of things he thought I should work on, and instead of getting mad I had to admit, "you are right, that is a weak area for me". I also thanked him for being trusting enough to tell me what he thought. Only your real friends will risk telling you the things you don't want to hear. Value that when it comes your way.
I suppose that is part of the answer to another question you had about whether there is any way to make suggestions to him. I believe that once I had established with my Virgo that I valued and respected his opinions, that I wasn't offended by constructive criticism, then he was more open to my "constructive criticisms" as well. The best approach is not a direct approach though and definitely not an accusing approach. I have learned the hard way that if I ever start a sentence with "I think" then he won't listen. If I start it with "I feel..." and put the focus on myself, then it changes his reaction completely. My guy will turn defensive and shut down the instant he feels that I am being critical of him his insecurities run that close to the surface. You really have to find a “back door” approach to confronting problems, even if it means making yourself the one who has a problem.
I know this may sound like a contradiction to my advice to just “be open”, but the difference is in the presentation. In my situation I can get pretty emotional about how infrequently I see my guy. If I am blunt and say something like, “so when am I going to see you again”, the walls go up immediately and things go negative. If I say something like, “it feels like it’s been too long since we’ve seen each other, I’m starting to miss you”, then he’s “available” and willing to make a plan to get together. Really I haven’t changed the message from my perspective, the reason I’m getting angry is because I’m not seeing him and I miss him, but as I said, it’s all in the presentation. I’ve totally presented the issue as MY issue and without suggesting that he’s at fault. (Even though it is easy to want to think that it IS his fault, because he’s not making an effort to see me, lol.) I guess the idea is that you can confront your guy, but make the blow as soft as possible.
My Virgo (and it sounds like there are lots of others like him based on the forum here) thinks he knows everything and all the answers. He's always right. The only convincing way for him to realize that I may be right sometimes too is by demonstrating that I am continually learning, reading, working, or whatever it may be to expand my experiences and knowledge. I do have a lot of information in my head. He does respect this and I think seems pretty open to my opinions because of this. This then makes it easier to approach different subjects and try to get him thinking about himself and his own behavior, because I can usually find some way to "come in that back door" on a topic. Such as, "I was reading an article that said men get annoyed when women talk about old boyfriends. I'm really surprised by that, what do you think, is it true? Would you be annoyed just because I talked about an old boyfriend?" Then we can explore the topic. Honestly, I do read so much in general, and my guy knows this (calls me his little encyclopedia), that I can even lie and say that I read about something - even if I didn't -just as an way to get a subject on the table.
It is so complicated dealing with these guys. I swear, many are the days that I don’t know why I bother. I’ve concluded that every Virgo man should come with an “owner’s manual”. That way they would get what they want and the rest of us dealing with them could quit making ourselves nuts trying to figure them out.
Jenever7, how are you....
well I've already stuck my foot in my mouth, so I might as well go ahead, and possible stick it in even futher... with regards to your relationship with This Virgo, because as you know I'm Married,
If I were to think there was someone having an emotional and physical relationship with my husband it would hurt A LOT, TRULY....but I have to ask, why is it that you cannot wait until he is finished with his Marriage...and move forward with this relationship from there. Why is it that you would seek to Seduce a Married Man, or Win the Heart of a married Man...He's Married, and has taken vows with Someone Else....a Woman who probably has her own whoes and or question about Her Virgo Husband as much as anyone who has posted.
In my opinion a Cheating Spouse, will say anything with someone on the side...
You are someone on the side!!!, I read an earlier post where you made the Crazy statement, (it is so typical that wives want to believe that their husbands would have been faithful if it weren't for some woman enticing them away) and (if she had a clue how to keep her husband happy, I wouldn't have met him in the first place”)...I personally think these statements are Ridiculous, and Insulting to any (Women) in a committed relationship..we are in the relationship believing that we are making our husbands happy, most relationships have problems and the couple should try to work out, This woman probably has no clue, that there is somone on the side, and If they are having problems, the solution to their marital problems are even worse,because there is another woman who is looking to find how to seduce her husband, has she been given the choice to get out of the relationship because her vows have been tainted... Does this woman know that she is sharing her husband with you, has she been given the choice to stay in a relationship that is no longer True... I think we would all (women that is) Like to believe, that once a woman finds out that a man is Married out of the sheer fact that You are a Women, You would Not interfere, with the vows she made with HER VIRGO... (Karma my dear)....
You say your heart is involved, you say you didn't find out he was married until you were already emotionally attached, Jen your a very smart women, Let him finish the realtionship with his Wife, he says that for what ever reason he has to stay in the relationship for now, then so be it, but why would you put the Sin of Adultury on your spirit, and Soul...
I will stop because I certainly don't want to have a go of words with you as I have said in the past" I think you are very intelligent... so I will stop and end with the question " What if you were married to this Virgo and unbeknownst to you he had another woman on the side" ...
I don't want to make anone angry, This is MY Opinion...
A Scorpio married to a Virgo Man...
Jenever7, after read ur post. i feel like surrender. They are really complicated and really hard please and to talk to because of we need tactics on how to handle them and make him stay calm and relax on what we need to bring up argh ~
Caprius, I feel like we must be so much the same, whenever I read your posts I feel like I could have written them myself. I know EXACTLY what you are saying. My situation is made even more complicated by the fact that my Virgo is married. I believe when he met me he was playing all of those games you describe. He lied to me and told me he was single, and divorced. I don't bring up this subject (because I think he is actually very ashamed of his behavior) but I suspect he had been playing games with women for years (I met him on a dating site). His marriage leaves him empty and miserable and yet he says he can't leave until his children are older. Anyway, it took me three months to figure out his lies, but to his HUGE surprise I did figure it out. That's when some truths HAD to come out. The truth was, that even though what he did seemed so horrible on the surface, somehow it didn't seem to affect me. It's like there was that bad side to him, but what had gone on between us was different - he WAS playing games but then he was surprised to find that he really cared about me and then didn't know how to put the truth out there. It was actually a relief to him that I did bust him in his lie so that he could be open with me.
Now here we are, a year later and still trying to make things work until...when? I don't know really. He says that he wants us to be together down the road, that's "his plan". Like your guy, he tells me that he would understand if I go find a new man - that he wants me to be happy and can't ask me to stay with him given his situation. He wouldn't stop me even though it would hurt him. But I know that he cares deeply about me. He tells me this, even tells me that he cares so much it scares him sometimes. I believe him and I guess that's why I try to wait it out. I have also told him many times that the "door is open" for him too, that "if you can't find time in your life for me, or if you aren't serious about me, then you need to be honest with yourself and let me go". But he can't leave me either.
But just like you are saying, it is a good thing when someone is thinking through their choice to be with you or to be with someone else. My guy said that he loved me once. I don't expect to hear it again for a long time, but he is getting more and more open about talking about his feelings and sharing his deeper thoughts. He is taking it slow, because the stakes for him are very high, but I also think that he doesn't want to lose me. When I get frustrated and things get close to me leaving him, he seems to sense it and will open up and let me know that he cares.
It IS a hard situation for my Virgo, I know that he feels very trapped and unhappy in his situation. The idea of him leaving his wife and putting his children in a world of uncertainty is a very serious matter, although at the same time I can't feel sorry for him. He is the one who put himself into my life with his lies. I think that his "game" was to play with women for a while and then just disappear when he was done (he even used a fake name so that he couldn't be found). Now, he is learning about his feelings and about himself and having to really think about his life and what he values - and very much about figuring out how to live in truth. It is very stressful for him, lol, a huge transformation and I know this, but as I say, I love him and I will support him in figuring things out, but do not feel sorry for him. He must figure himself out or I don't want him either.
You will like this story: I figured out at one point that he was back on the very dating site where he met me. I simply asked, "why?" Why are you doing this if you have me, and if I'm not what you want then why don't you just move on? I said, "it's enough that I put up with the fact that you have a wife, if I'm not enough and you need more women in your life, then I want out of this". He deleted his profile page immediately and said that he was just "playing little boy games, that it added some variety to his routine days", although when he deleted his profile from the site he made sure that I knew he could just make a new one. His point was, that I should either trust him or not.
Well, I'm not playing that game either, so I said, "hey, you go ahead then, you put your profile page back on the site, you go find all the women you want, you go do what you want, I'm not going to waste my time checking on you because that's not the kind of relationship I want. I want a man I can trust to his word". And I added also, "because the other thing I know for sure - is that you will NOT find anyone again like me, so you need to decide what YOU want". Dang I was mad at him for being so stupid. Thing was, I know why he did it. His ego was hurting and he was feeling confused about me. I think "comparing" me to other women was a way to figure out what he was feeling about me, and to get some ego attention.
I'll spare you the long story, but he was upset over a male friend of mine. Doesn't seem to matter that I tell him I only want him, the fact is I AM single and free to do what I want. So he worries. He still worries. He should worry I guess, lol, because the only thing that will keep me with him is his own efforts to be honest with me and make a good effort to keep this relationship going. As I say, I love him, but this is a very difficult situation for me, not my ideal, and certainly not worth staying with him if his heart isn't really in it or if I can't trust him. I guess the positive side to that is how much easier it is for me to just say, "what do YOU want with me, what are we doing together, where DO you see things going for us" and just being able to get those things out in the open. He seems to have committed his heart to me, but everything else in his life is really a bad situation for our relationship.
In time...if we go on like this...I figure I will actually push for him to make a solid commitment to figuring out how he is planning to change his life so that we could really be together. That may take years, and I understand that. I figure even if he were available and we saw each other all the time, I have no plans to rush into marriage or life-long commitments so I figure I'd date someone for a few years anyway before I'd feel "safe" in getting married again. (The divorce rate for second marriages goes up to 75%, this is NOT something to rush into, lol.) All I expect right now is enough involvement from him that I can trust that he's worth waiting for. I won't go on endlessly in uncertainty and waiting, but for now as long as we are both getting what we need out of the relationship, I'm okay with things.
I think that is what I enjoy about your posts too, Caprius, is that you stand up to your Virgo with your own good logic and honesty. What you say about him feeling "secure" with you probably has a lot to do with that. He knows where he stands with you and trusts you. I don't know about all Virgo's but my guy trusts no one, not even his own mother. He has become so good at walling off his feelings and keeping his heart safe that he is actually scared of his own feelings for me. I told him that this means he still doesn't trust me (or as you say Caprius, he doesn't feel "secure"). I think that is getting better, but there is no solution for it but time and patience. Trust and a feeling of security can't be given away, but have to be proven.
Anyway, nothing here either, just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your grumbling because you always make me laugh with how familiar your relationship is to me. I think that even if my guy wasn't married, we would be having the very same kind of arguments you do over how he views the time he shares with me. I hear the same kind of stuff, like, "I just talked to you Friday, what are you upset about?" (And this will be after like five days of hearing nothing from him, lol.) He's just caught up/busy with things.
Seriously, part of the reason his marriage is so bad is because his wife says he's "never there for her". I can assure you it's not because he's spending time with me, lol. He's off in his own "space' and I figure he will always need that. But I think he really wants a relationship that is totally faithful and he is willing to be totally faithful...but not until he feels 'secure'. You are lucky you see, your guy already feels that with you. I think I've got a long way to go yet because the damage in my guy runs deep. He's got to clean up some of his own issues, learn to believe and trust in himself, before he can really accept love whole-heartedly from someone else. The longer he remains in his marriage, the harder this is, because his wife drags him down with her criticism and indifference. But then I think, he is so mental, and you know how these guys can just separate their feelings so easily (I totally believe that your guy is being honest, he could have a dozen women interested in him and if his heart and mind are stuck on you, he won't stray). So maybe my guy will surprise me and let all that "baggage" go and just let himself feel what he feels for me. Once he is certain about what he feels, then he will do what he needs to do (or like your guy - he will know what to do and when to do it, lol! So hilarious, I can totally imagine my guy saying that same thing.)
Anyway, enjoyed your post, you just make me laugh so hard - I love it!
I have had an encounter with the V man and this is the story.
I am a Sag with the Scorpio on the darker side, but a Tiger in Chinese. He was a fiery Goat.
I was charmed by him instantly. The eyes, the way he posed, his voice.. I had no doubts I met the one! He was the one who approached me and being the fiery myself he ticked all the boxes for me straight away.
I noticed his simplicity in the way he approaches things, bravado and assurance of his own self. I saw his EGO immediately. For him it was ok to say what he thought and talked it seemed that you had to either take it or leave it. He just announced me that he found me adorable. He said he fancied me, he said many other things, he tried to convince me.
In return, I was myself bubbly, which he really liked, I liked his rare attention, he knew which buttons to press.
Me being a Sag I "watched" him, funny though, as he too did the same thing, although he had never realised that I kept an eye on him. He preferred distance, it felt as if he was not sure, although I felt he was coming to a boiling point. My friendliness towards him annoyed him, he felt uneasy and he burst once hurting me a lot. There is no way you come on the Sag this way, so in return he experienced my strenghs.
After a considerable time he become super shy and didn't know how to make up, somehow we did, but then Mr Virgo started to play games, in which again he was proved to playing games with the fire. I was still hurt and have never received an appology. He had to work to get my trust back in him. Did he? Hein return could not believe, how someone could even treat him Mr Right that way, but he was keep coming back, as deep down, I new he was attracted to my strenghts. I also knew he was after them and I knew if he was to get them, he would have lost the interest.
He did tell me how he felt, although on my part I expected it all or nothing. In my eyes it was not enough. I thought if he wasn't shy enough to approach me, he should have not been shy to open up a little more and to tell me other things and after all what we have been through, I felt he should have make up his mind, but he couldn't and he didn't, although his feelings were running high, I felt it like electricity, it was almost orgasmic, we had a very special connection but me being a Sag, I have never told him how I felt, I know, it sucks, but I knew, if I did, I would have never seen him again. I felt as if he tried to break me, but all I needed was to be loved. I thought to myself, if he loves me, he will open up, he will take me. I wanted him to make up his own mind without any pressure, strange that, as he expected me to do the same thing, but I had to be first. Well, after all, men are the ones who are after women and not the other way around. I thought if he loved me, I wanted him to love me I was boiling hot, all the lava was about to come out and the volcano inside me was about to explode and burst into one big happy ending. I was waiting and waiting for him to make up his mind and he did!
He went with someone else instead!
Oh, well Mr V, it's your loss I suppose, but that's the choice you've made. Up to date he still doen't know how I feel and I am greatful he doesn't, as it was all pointless. I was looking for the proof of his devotion. I thought if it is real let be it and I was ready, this is how Sags are. He would've never run away, if he loved me, there was no need for me to tell him how I felt, as he didn't really tell me what he wanted, so I felt it would have been a pointless exercice to tell him how I felt or try changing his mind. All he need to do with me was to take me without appeal and I would have been all his.
In my opinion, he simply did not love me, so I thought there was no need to play games Mr V.
Mr V tried to keep in touch, but come on, you've made up you mind, remember? If you made up your mind, stick to your decisions and please, do not bother to bother me ever again.
Jen, you don't have to respond to me, but I have to ask from your response to Caprius, you wrote "part of the reason his marriage is so bad is because his wife says he's "never there for her" HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS...because a Married Man told you this...the same married man that can have intimate relations with you when He's available, and you have found excuses to make this OK, Why, because He's told you his wife doesn't clean, or she doesn't appreciate him.. or as you put it " if she had a clue how to keep her husband happy, You wouldn't have met him in the first place...
Ok....I'm going to let this go...because there Are some women that happily accept a piece of a man, Maybe its out of desperation I don't know.
Healingwater - I totally respect your opinion and, having been married 13 years (faithfully) myself, I appreciate everything that you are saying. Why do I disregard all of this? Actually I don't, I teter on the verge of letting things go on a regular basis. The problem is, I have too much empathy for why my Virgo is still married. I consider myself lucky to have been able to divorce my husband when it got to the point that not only was the love gone, the relationship was actually emotionally damaging. If it had meant putting my children in a bad situation, i suppose I would have had to just suffer in my marriage as well, until the kids were older and I could bail out. This would have been damaging for my children as well though, living in a family with two loveless, bitter parents, so I am grateful that I had options.
My guy does not have this option at this time. His biggest problem is being able to support his children after the financial fall-out of a divorce. If money were not an issue, he would have been gone years ago. I believe this because I understand his situation and I've known him too long now for any charade to hold up. He tells me about conversations he and his wife have. They've openly said that were it not for her getting pregnant, and if they'd had more time, they most likely would never have gotten married. They married in urgency, not in maturity or necessarily even love. Shortly after their marriage he also discovered a pile of love letters she had hidden away from a former boyfriend. The letters were dated AFTER they were married. AND she hid them away AND saved them. He has lived with the idea that her heart was never fully in him anyway, and in the years together she has not done well in proving otherwise. This is a very deep and painful issue for him. It's hard coming to terms with the idea that you may have squandered some of the best years of your life with someone who never really loved you.
There ARE two sides to every story. You are wrong in only one thing in your comments, Healingwater, and that is assuming that his wife is a victim in all of this. Karma is a double-edged sword to be sure. Please don't assume that she is a saint in all of this, or that she is blindly being a good, loving wife while he strays. From the stories he tells me, they have a relationship that consists of argument, power-struggles and indifference to feelings. They are in this together. I really feel sad for their children having such a relationship as a model for their futures. It is a basis for dysfunction that can cycle on for generations.
I can not tell you here all of the reasons that I stay with him, but whether you believe it or not, it is as much to do with a feeling he and I both have that our paths were meant to cross at this time and neither one of us knows for sure where things will really go. His life is a picture of what my life was for years in my marriage. I don't think this is coincidence, I think that I am in this position for a reason. There is a spiritual basis in this, although to anyone on the outside of it I completely understand how all you can observe are the negatives, or the more base aspects of it as a lust-filled and not love-filled involvement. If you believe in Karma, then you believe as well that there are lessons we all must learn, not all of them easy ones.
So, you can assume that my involvement is hurting his wife - I'm a distraction from his responsibilities to her, but the reality is that he was distracted well before I came along. I think he was lucky to meet me because unlike most people, I've had the acceptance and understanding to help him overcome some of his pain, confusion and depression and find some rationality. I do KNOW what it feels like to be in his situation and all of the emotions that pull at you and I think that I have been a positive influence. In the year I've known him, he is taking more responsibility in facing the problems in his marriage and his relationships with his children. Thinking realistically about what he is doing and the choices he makes, and lately actually feeling some enthusiasm about making changes in his life that would move his life in a positive direction instead of just cycling around in the rut he was in when we met. If money is what is keeping him trapped, well, then maybe it's time to figure out how to make more of it and create some new options.
He's also working on getting clarity with his wife, expressing his feelings to her and sorting out if there is a shred of anything left between them to rebuild their relationship. I appreciate that he is honest with me in all of this because it also tells me that he IS grounding himself in reality now. Just two weeks ago I felt the need to ask him, "do you think you are to a point where we need to let things go between us and you just deal with your stuff?" He said, "absolutely he thinks about it, but I care about you too". I wouldn't want to ever have him leave his marriage and be with me with lingering doubts or regrets. We could never have a happy relationship if he isn't at peace with whatever decision he makes about his marriage. And who knows, maybe he's going to turn around and decide that it's not so bad, or maybe he should make a better effort. I don't think he really knows right now.
You know, he said to me once that I was "like an angel" to him. That no one has ever been able to touch his heart like I do. That makes me happy but at the same time it hurts. This is actually a brutal position to put myself in HealingWater, and requires a kind of unselfishness from me that I have never had to tap. I think I come on the forums just to let that piece of it vent, because the reality is that I have to hold a distance from what I'd really like to have between he and I - and knowing full well that I may never get that. Sure, I could walk away right this minute, but that doesn't feel like the right answer. This situation, for me, is the ultimate test in unconditional love and for whatever reason, I needed to give that love and he needed to receive it. I willingly take my chances with Fate, Karma, God or whatever, because I am a spiritual person, I let God lead my way and God led me to this. Which led me to this forum which led me to you.
I do stand by my statement that men are not seduced away from relationships btw, if they are finding fulfillment within their own relationship. What would I do if I were married and my husband had another woman unbeknownst to me? Frankly, I think it would be hard to NOT know that your husband had outside interests. (I'd bet you ANYTHING that my Virgo's wife has a pretty good idea that he's not faithful, but for whatever reason she's letting it ride right now, and just taking out her hostilites within their relationship.) In the small percentage of cases where men stray for pure pleasure, I suppose that's one thing. I guess I'd feel lucky in the end to be rid of such a shallow man. Although if I had such a man, and he hid it well, and I was getting what I needed in our marriage, I might not ever know the difference and we'd go on our merry way. (You did say "unbeknownst").
In the greater number of cases of infidelity, I feel confident that you would find a disconnect in the relationship. That one or the other, or both, had unmet emotional needs driving them to seek fulfillment elsewhere. That leaves you with the choice to try to repair that damage or set each other free to hopefully go find someone else that gives you the kind of love you need to feel fulfilled. Living out your life in unhappiness, day in and day out, just for the sake of marriage vows makes no sense to me and in a way seems like an insult to the life that God gave us. If a man didn't find what he needed to feel happy with me, I couldn't be happy living with that relationship. People change, our needs change, when we are lucky we find a partner who can accept and support us in our growth to becoming whoever we are meant to be. "Til death do us part" is a very long time and it's beautiful to think that we could all find someone that we could live out our lives with, and still be free to grow as individuals at the same time, but obviously that is much harder than it sounds.
The real honest answer to your question though, is when I was married things got to a point where I couldn't have cared less if my husband had found another woman, in fact it might have made my life easier in some ways. I suppose if I ever find myself married again and my husband were to wander, I at least have experience enough to know now that the physical act of straying is not the real issue. The real issue is what's going on in the heart. Even in my situation right now, do you not consider that I am dealing with a man who has another woman in his life? Lol. Sorry, but it is an amusing twist on the question. He may be in a marriage but his heart is not, and I'm not the one who TOOK it out of the marriage. He offered it up freely.
The reality I must face is that if I can get him to come to terms with all the pain he's been dealing with, get him back in touch with his heart, I might actually be the one that inspires him to put his heart back in the marriage. How's that for Karma! LOL! I am dead serious too, I have thought many times that my only purpose here might be his "awakening" and not really have a darn thing to do with "us". Mind you I would not view that as any form of Karmic punishment and I also don't believe that my soul is tainted with sin. That is a judgement that you are making based on your belief system. My heart has been sincere in all of this, and I don't believe in any God that would punish me for standing by and giving support to a soul in pain. While it would hurt to lose what I have with this man, at the same time it has reminded me of many aspects of love that I had forgotten thanks to the damage of my disappointing marriage. No matter what, I am confident that I will either end up with him someday, or I will end up in a relationship that provides everything we feel, but without the "clutter" that keeps us from having a complete relationship.
Maybe we will just part and come back later if that's how things need to be. It is a decision we are trying to make together and that's why I don't just walk away. If I leave him now, and he's not ready for that, then I simply confirm his deepest fears, and that is that he opened his heart and he got hurt...again. This will shut him down from ever resolving his relationships in any direction.
Anyway, I'm really typed out on this topic for today, lol. I respect that you may very well continue to disagree with me, and that's okay, but all I can say is that I hope that Life never presents you with such a complicated situation. I actually do hope that all of this resolves itself in a direction that brings peace to everyone involved. Seriously, you can't overlook the possibility that his wife is actually as miserable as he is and longs for the freedom to go find the kind of love she really wants. Frankly, when he describes her behavior, she sounds depressed as well. Just two birds trapped in a cage wishing somebody could open the door and set them free. Can't seem to figure out that they're the ones who hold the key.
Wow! How passionate. Please do not treat my comments as judgemental, even though I have to say what I think on the above topic.
I know one thing.
When a man loves a woman, he will move mountains for her. He will take her to the moon, he will bring the World to her feet. If a man is involved with two women, he loves noone, sorry, but this is the case. No matter what, no matter how difficult it may be and I do know how uneasy life can be, I learnt one important thing I am happy to share with you all.
A MAN WILL NEVER LIVE WITH A WOMAN HE DOES NOT LOVE. Print it out and stick it on the walls all over your house.
Women are different, however, BUT IT DOES NOT APPLY TO MAN.
Please, he is JUST COMFORTABLE
Besides, what a man is this, who shares his intimate life with his woman with an outsider?
Please, just do not waste your life, GET LIFE
HealingWater - I wonder why this issue stings you so?
Look, at some point this man is a human being with basic human feelings and a heart and a hope that he can be happy. We are two people in a complicated situation, with some very deep emotions and trying to work through it. There are no intentional villians here. It's serious stuff, with big consequences, and believe it or not, I do trust that what he tells me is true. Why should he lie at this point? He and I have come too far to play a game here. I'm sorry that this situation is bothering you so, and I don't harbor any ill towards you for expressing your feelings about it (although I could have done without the insults there, but whatever..). I still stand by everything I've expressed here and whether you believe it or not, I think that good will come out of this in the end.
You certainly have excellent diction... First I need to say, that I believe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, because everybody is getting it from me today I think I'll take a nap and wake up again hopefully less irritated.....and now I'm quite Embarrassed, that you have to defend or explain your situation...
But..I haven't changed my opinion on the subject, because despite all that you've said, Everything you believe you know about his wife, is what He's told you...and I feel that women should stick together in that.. you don't cross the line when It comes to a Married Man or woman
MARRIAGE IS SACRED...and with it being so easy, to get a Divorce now a days, if someone is that unhappy in the decision that they've made, let them divorce and have faith in the decision to Divorce.. Have faith financially, Have faith in the well being of their children, because if your really unhappy You Will Get Out Of It, no Excuses, ...So again, my belief's have not and Will Not change...
I understand that everthing is not Black & White, but I don't want to believe that this type of thing is so easily acceptable these days.....
Thank You Jen, for not screaming at me..I thought you might....
Going to Nap..I need it
It sounds like you have a loving heart. It is all great almost Maria Teresa. Most of my cancerian friends are like this. No matter what, you are an outsider in your own story and I feel sotty for you. Love is not about suffering. It is unconditional, it is light, it is peace, it is perfect, whatever you call it, it is not what you're describing, otherwise you've never loved.
It sounds as if you was hurt and understand the other pain, who doesn't? We are what we are because we are ourselves put into positions we are in. We are what we are because of all people we have met on our way and experiences we faced. But please, think about it this way. Why not built your own life, instead of taking responsibility of someone elses life, when it sounds as if you one self need help. I think you are confused. There is nothing about Godly in your situation. As God is crearly against adultery.
With all your love in your heart, you could have created great things, but by the sound of it, please do not get it the wrong way, it is just an opinion, you are in a mess. Relations between man and woman are diffirent to mother and a child. It sounds as if you become your "partner's" mother. The longer you stay in this, the worst it wil become.
I understand you're cancerian. I know cancerian's treats. They want to grab and nurse, possess. It looks as if you are almost ready to make your own nest with your giving energy, which can be used for better needs of those who really need it.
Lis1 - When finances are an issue, he sure will live with a woman he doesn't love. Print that one out and put it up next to your other saying. My husband would have kept me forever if it would have saved him a penny, no matter how miserable I made him. Materialism is part of his ego.
And read what I just posted to HealingWater. You know it is my decision to take this "space" of my life and let this situation exist and unfold. I start to think that the negativity here stems from fear. I am not afraid of what this situation may bring. I am fully aware and questioning and looking for a good resolution. I am learning things about love, myself, and a man that I find attractive in all ways. There is no waste of life here, there is living of life happening here. To shirk from it in unfounded fears would be more the waste. Great rewards take great risk. Not one of us can predict where this really will go because we are in a time of transformation. Sorry if you think I am nuts, but there it is. LOL
Jen..I was prepared to go take my nap...but read your post...This issue Stings me so...Because I'M A WIFE.....Jen you don't have to tell me how serious Marriage is...I understand all of the Intricacies involved...You say why would he lie to me at this point...Your Sleeping Him!!! In some States thats a crime...ADULTURY is a crime!!!
Im well aware of all the Human Feelings, & Deep Emotions involved in a Marriage...and because of these intricate details... they the party involved need to be able to work out there own issues...For Better or Worse... without anyone knowingly, Seducing the other party....
Im a Scorpio, I'm passionate, and love that about myself..
Jen there is Never going to be Anything you can say, that will make me empathetic
to you Sleeping with a Married Man...NEVER!!!
I am not having a go at you. The choices are yours. I hope in the few years down the line you prove yourselve to be the right one and I hope things will turn out well for you, but Jenever7, I know no one likes to be critisised and it is difficult to accept things written in your replies, I appreciate this.
I think sometime we are afraid to say things and admit things within ourselves and when we hear other pointing at them, they obviously hurt, because we want to hide, don't we? Saying al this, in your situation, being blind by so called "love", you may dragg it on and on and miss the most important things in your rela life. It is strange, because youu are obviously, well anyone wants to be just happy. What does true happines means to you? Sharing someone elses men in hope he will be yours? Come on, he does not need to be saved, he is not a baby. He has wife and family, which isn't without a fault and it is normal too. Where are you going with it? Lokks like you are on the gult trip, panishing your self, why are you doing it to your self?
Please, do not talk to me about finance. I have never and I doubt I ever will come accross "love and money". Love has nothing to do with money, just nothing.
I have known a man, who was married and met a love of his life. He had three kids and they did not stop him to leave his wife and marry another woman with four kids and they had two more. No money, no kids have stopped either of them to be together. One thing though, they both honestly faced it, sorted it out.
I recon you should leave that man alone for good, for your own good. He has to sort himself out with his own wife. Trust me, if he really loves you, you will be together.
As at the moment, this is just a game, I am sorry it hurts to read this, but you need to sort yourself out and move on. Don't be weak