Is this Typical Cancer Man Behavior? Help!

  • @ScorpVirgo
    Wait, that complicates things if you're unsure of his relationship status. Have you checked his social media accounts? That usually turns up a few clues.

    Pfft, no worries! I'm hoping the best for Scorp and this mysterious Virgo man. We're just both out here and confused X'D

    Also, I have an out of the blue update. My ex just sent me a text to let me know that he has decided to write a 3 page response to my letter and had already sent it. He acknowledged that I specifically said I did not want to talk about it until we met... but he's now arguing that he'll be "more coherent" and his "thoughts will be better organized".

    I haven't bothered to read it yet. Mostly because I am torn between being super annoyed that NOW he wants to put thought into what he's saying and him just straight up bypassing my request, that he agreed to!

    Sure, this is exactly what I wanted him to do. But come on! Why can't this man just stick to the script for once. Jeez!! You can't just agree to something then backtrack on it. I think I'm just being a picky Virgo at this point... but I had a nice schedule worked out for this!

    Besides, how many pages do you need to say "oh hey, I was an ass but I don't want to date you anymore."? Now this is just a production at this point!

    Ugh, I'll probably read it tomorrow when I'm not so unjustly irritated. 🙄 He did manage to add a "please" to his request, which might have nearly killed his bossy ass.

    In other news:
    So an acquaintance of mine has decided that I should be considering him as a potential boyfriend. I gave him a heads up on my situation and my muddled feelings/ lack of closure but he was undeterred and is just sticking around and wants to "get to know each other until I am ready".
    So there's some more drama I didn't ask for. No info on him yet, but he is a great guy that I would have gladly considered if things were different. But my goodness is this new guy persistent! I'm taking bets, what do y'all think his sign is? X'D

  • @ToriDori - I think the reason why you're feeling annoyed and you don't want to read the letter is because it's sort of too late. He is now crawling back, with his tail between his legs, and you already went through the stage of grief over the relationship. You tried so hard to keep your relationship together, and he didn't want to try back then. and now that he wants to try, you're OVER IT! If it were me, I'd still read the note though...just to see what he said. And then you can possibly process your feelings after that. I read somewhere that once a Virgo is done, they're DONE! maybe that's where you are right now?

    I think the new guy is a Scorp! Persistent and wont take no for an answer! Lol!!

    I want to thank you and OJ for helping me with my Virgo (or lack thereof) situation, in between your thread. I want to believe he's single. He told me he deleted all of his social media accounts in the last few months because he was getting overwhelmed and tired of all the negativity in the world (politically, COVID situation, life, etc). So I cannot find anything on him. However, the way he responds to me, and talks to me, I get the feeling he's single. However, again, I'm unsure and that's where my predicament is. I had asked The Captain on another thread what I should do, and they are telling me that I just need to go for it and ask him if he's single and interested in starting something with me. My thoughts are that I'm TERRIFIED of getting rejected and/or scaring him off. 😞

  • @ToriDori
    Aries likes the challenge and the chase.
    Scorpio Is intense and persistent.

  • @ScorpVirgo
    The reason I asked if he might be attached is that you mentioned that he doesn’t ask anything about you. He could be analyzing and forming his own opinions and if he is then he’s not getting the whole picture without having that 2 way exchange with you.
    It takes a lot of courage to ask someone flat out if they’re single and interested. It wouldn’t be that hard if he wasn’t part of your study group. But, I don’t understand the rush. Am I missing something?

  • @OJ - I guess there's no big rush, except I'm your typical impatient Scorp and want to know so that I'm not wasting time/energy on someone who doesn't want me back. The Captain mentioned that I need to go ahead and ask him so it's not dwelling on my mind so much. They also mentioned that he may not be as available next year, due to other obligations I assume.

    He doesn't ask me anything personal. He asked me how my class was going - we're in two different classes at the moment. That was basically it. Other than that, it's always me asking and moving the convo forward. However, he's always super quick to respond, and always forthcoming with information about the question I ask. He sent me pictures a week ago from a camping trip he took (without me asking for pics). I don't know how to read it. I also don't want to chase him too much. I think I'll let it cool off for some time. I don't want to seem like I'm bothering him.

    I never bothered to ask you, is there anything you're dealing with? I feel like I'm taking and not giving at all with you! 🙂

  • @ScorpVirgo
    Thanks for asking. No, my energy is calm and balanced at this point. I’ve gotten rid of some toxic friendships and am content with what I have. I’m with a cancer man and after surviving many trials and tribulations in our relationship, we are in a good place for now. I came upon this site and found that there were a lot of cancer threads and was curious. There are many different perspectives that I can benefit from and if I can offer up my own, someone might see things in a different light. I used to study astrology but it has been a number of years so I’m quite rusty. I’m an Aquarian sun, Aries moon, Scorpio AC.

  • @ToriDori
    Have you read you ex’s letter yet ? Hope everything is ok.

  • @OJ
    Fantastic job on getting rid of toxic friendships! It's always a tough thing to do. I'm sending you even more positive thoughts. ❤ As Scorp mentioned, you've been out here trying to help us out of pure kindness. Thank you so much!

    You have a cancer? I wish you all the blessings possible! How long have you been together?

    It really does seem like Cancer dudes are an absolute menace. when you look through all the topics. This is funny since one of my best guy friends is a cancer and he is (ok he is a bit of a disaster) but he's so in tune with his emotions and the most honest person I know. But it seems like they get in relationships and either sabotage them or lose their ever-loving minds (for better or for worse)! 🤣

    Yikes, jumping into the unknown is always the hardest part! Maybe if you don't want to expose your interests, why don't you find a way to ask if he has to balance any relationships along with his school workload. Or just offhandedly say something like "ugh, I'm glad I'm single... blah blah"

    Letter Update

    As for the letter, I read it and it's disappointing. Part of the reason I didn't want him to write out a prepared speech is that I knew he was going to turn it into an emotionless rebuttal. And, even though he's a mess when he speaks about his passions, I've found that he's usually a bit more honest when he doesn't have the time to protect himself with words.

    Which is literally all it was. It was 3 pages of nothing but deflection /self-preservation and a page of apology. Like, I purposely brought up a lot of things that I had observed, experienced, and felt in a show of vulnerability. He just refused to take ANY of the bait and just linguistically meandered around for a few pages, explaining nothing. 3 pages bereft of anything I hadn't heard before. I had 3 questions listed that I said needed to be answered. He mentioned one but managed to disfigure it in such a way that fed into the rest of his narrative.

    From the tone of his texts, I thought he actually had something to say. It's laughable really. His letter was so dry, it could double as kindling!

    Unfortunately, I am a lot blunter as a friend than as a girlfriend. If he asks whether I read it, I will have to ask him if he reeeeally wants my opinion or if he would rather try again. Because otherwise, I will have to point out that he can't say the relationship wasn't "deep" enough if he continues to avoid showing any type of vulnerability, his letter was absolute trash and didn't answer or clarify anything. There was no emotion in any of it.

    Why bother writing so many pages if you fill it with empty text?

    But whatever! He's probably not going to enjoy this conversation and I'm not sure if he's going to want to be my friend afterward. I don't do flimsy friendships and I typically don't let my friends give bs excuses or just plain filibuster. Plus, he doesn't get kudos for apologizing for something he did so horrifically wrong. 🙄

  • @OJ - I'm so happy you've gotten rid of those toxic friendships. I am one to do the same. If I don't like the energy I get from someone, I don't like them from the get-go. I'll be cordial, but never fully let them get close to me in any way. Then they eventually fade away on their own. I'm glad you've found some peace with your Cancer man - I don't know if I'd ever be able to get together with another. I've actually had 2 ex's who are Cancers and both hurt me so much, one more than the other.

    @ToriDori - ok, the letter from your dude makes me so angry. It just reminds of the selfishness that these Cancer guys have for themselves. If it doesn't bode well for them, they don't care. Nothing like putting blame on everything and everyone other than themselves, right?! ughhh....

    Update on my Virgo - I was texting with him last night, and asked him what he was doing for our upcoming break. He told me that he would probably stay at home and go to his friend's place for the holiday, instead of going back home this year. He then asked me what I was doing, and started asking me a little more about personal stuff. I told him that I usually spend the holiday with my family and that my mom, sister, and I love to cook. I think we both sort of know now that we're both single. I guess I'm slowly making progress, which is good. He sent me 4 texts in a row, to which I replied within 30 min of him sending since he seemed eager to send me multiple messages. I've come to know that 11pm is his "bed time" LOL, and my last messages I sent were around that time so they've gone without a reply. I'm not going to push, but I'm hoping he replies today.

    Ladies - I heard there is a full moon tonight. What do you think that means for us? Transformation and goal setting hopefully?

  • Thank you ladies for your positive thoughts and energy.

    Some of those friendships I had since I was a teenager. People change throughout the years and when we get hurt, we either choose to forgive or we choose to keep that hurt within our being. My best friend at the time won’t forgive, not only her ex but anyone and everyone, and that build up of negative energy made her into a bitter, judgemental and unhappy person. I didn’t realize how much her energy affected me until that friendship ended and I felt that dark cloud lift from my psyche. I wish her well and hope that she seeks the help that she needs, which I have been urging her to do throughout the years.

    I was with my cancer for 4 years about 10 years ago. Prior to that we went thru the struggles that you read in some of the cancer man pages in this forum. When our relationship ended we stayed in contact and that same friend (she does have psychic abilities) told me that he would never let me go. He never has and we got back together last year with different attitudes and expectations. I have no illusions that we will be together for the rest of our lives, but I know we will always be in each other’s life.

    @ToriDori. If your cancer is anything like mine, he won’t admit in words that he did any wrong, but he will acknowledge it with his actions and make it up to you. Right or wrong, if he feels like he is being criticized, he will defend himself. And I agree, its selfish and it’s not a mature way of dealing with things.

    @ScorpVirgo, yay! This is all positive news! You now both know the relationship status of each other and he’s taking an interest in your life. This you did, while at the same time protecting yourself and hopefully another layer will be peeled off like an onion and your relationship will develop further. Sometimes it’s better to discover more about someone before we jump into a relationship when emotions become more heightened.

    Bravo to both of you for taking care of yourselves and your own needs!

  • @ScorpVirgo
    Not only was it a full moon, it was a blue moon ! The moon was at 1 degree in Taurus.
    Full moons usually mean closure and healing. New moons bring beginnings or opportunities.

  • @OJ
    Omg, I think I really felt that full moon in Taurus today. We had that conversation and I am so emotionally drained from it. It was good, but after I came home I just sat on the floor in my bedroom and processed... then took a hot bath and processed it some more. I figure I'll be good to give ya'll a full update tomorrow. ❤

    Hon, did you feel any of those potent moon vibes?!

  • @OJ - I'd have to agree with you wholehearted that people change as they get older and the friends you met first may not be the same as you want to have now. I am happy you were able to reconnect with your Cancer, and work things out.

    @ToriDori - I'm sorry your conversation with your Cancer man drained you so much. Sometimes I wonder if any guy puts in effort as much as the woman does into the relationship, regardless of sign. Take your time, and only share what you feel comfortable sharing.

    My Virgo finally replied yesterday afternoon with a couple of texts. Honestly, I haven't had a chance to reply yet. Things got busy for me, and today is my birthday! I'll hopefully have a chance to reply later tonight or tomorrow.

  • @OJ @ScorpVirgo

    Whew, I think I'm ready to summarize this saga.  We spent about 4 hours hashing everything out and he managed to have the epiphany that I was steering him towards.  However, it's a bit of a hollow victory.  Being right doesn't fix anything and it's of no real comfort.  I left emotionally full of raw and open dialogue, yet empty nonetheless.

    We were both very open and he apologized for every aspect of his shittiness during the actual breakup.  He acknowledged that he reframed certain things in his written reply and seemed genuinely upset that I wasn't moved by it.  When I explained why I was disappointed (by the defensiveness, lack of actual openness/ vulnerability) but that this is what I had expected; he seemed hurt.  He maintained that he spent days writing and rewriting and editing.  Then he mentioned that he had cut out a whole page "because it didn't flow".  That he “wouldn’t have written anything at all if (he) didn’t feel-”.

    Of course, that whole page was a part where he had talked about his personal views on his job and how there seemed to be a misunderstanding there, and about the amount of stress he was under.  When asked why he thought it didn't belong in a response to an emotional letter that was crafted to be purposefully antagonistic in certain areas, he said "I don't know".

    He said we went over it for days and debated leaving it in, then rewrote it and finally just decided against it.  When the implications of his redactions finally hit home, he became adamant that I believe that he actually wrote them.  I believe him.  His honesty has never been in question.  Later in the conversation, he would call this choice to "over edit"/ (sterilize) his response a mistake.

    After the first hour or so of talking, he said that he completely missed the intent of the letter. He acknowledged that not bringing his initial misgivings to me "was a mistake" after I explained that 'the whole point of being in a relationship is to talk about our feelings'.  A lot of his misgivings seemed to hinge on the possibility of me being "angry".  Which is something that, to this day, he's never actually experienced. He managed to continually infer that I was mad when I’ve only been hurt.

    "I thought about all of this so much but it looks like I kept making the wrong choice."   Seemed to be his most quotable revelation... but I think he started to understand the irony of breaking up with me because of "lack of emotional depth" when he was the one holding me at arm’s length.  A lot of his questions centered around "when were you going to tell me..." but the answers usually came down to "I would/ have led by example and showed you".  That seems to be something that might have triggered his unease.  He seemed to need verbal confirmations of certain things... but he never made space for them or did any of that himself.

    After a bit of gentle prodding from him, I brought up the issue of how terrible it is to go to bed with someone who is so affectionate in their sleep and to be dropped the morning after.  I excused the behavior if it was unconscious but asserted that these sorts of things (cuddling/ neck massages) can be seen as duplicitous behavior especially when that happens so close to a breakup.  And he seemed to be genuinely startled by this information.  He said that none of his past girlfriends have mentioned this bedtime behavior.  This was another big theme.

    A fair amount of the issues I brought up around how he interacted with me just seemed to surprise him.  One of the biggest sticking points for him was when I explained that he had never directly complimented me on my looks but would instead choose to compliment benign things like my earrings or dress (he is not fashion savvy in the least).  (Disclaimer: I am very aware of how attractive I am. So I initially thought this was rather cute.)  I told him that my best friend and I had a running joke where we thought he was blind and that he obviously must like me for my personality. (Man that hasn’t aged well.)

    At first, he tried to defend the point that he had given me compliments… but could only list things like “your dress”... to which I finished his sentence by giving a chronological list of the things he had thought to mention.  I explained the implications of giving clinical compliments, very early on in our conversation. How they are safe and don't serve any purpose, show any openess, or open any deeper avenues of conversation.

    He seemed to find new meaning in this particular behavior over the course of the entire conversation.  
    The questions/ statements went from: 
    “I don’t know if I am the type of person who gives physical compliments.  I would have to ask my former partners.”, at the beginning. 
    “Why didn’t you tell me?/ When would you have told me this?/ How long until you would have told me this?” (To which I answered that I wouldn’t have. I just told him that I just made it more of a point to tell him that I found him attractive.  I reiterated that I like to show people that something is okay with me and open the space for the same treatment.) 
    “But you are.  Why didn’t I tell you that?” (The latter was asked several times to which I could only shrug ‘cause why the hell would I know?  I mean, I know why… but like, you're supposed to tell me.)
    Somewhere near the end he just told me: “I think that you’re gorgeous.”  But it just hurt to hear at that point.  It hurts to type it.  Because it just doesn’t mean anything now.  It doesn’t hold the weight that it should have and would have just a mere month ago. It was just sad.  I am just sad.

    At a point towards the middle, I acknowledged my own shortcomings in relationships (mostly from the feedback I’ve gotten over the years and have worked to improve or, at the very least, be open about): appearing aloof, being slow to trust, and thus slow to open up about certain things, and a dependence on logic in places where most people would be emotional.  He hadn’t had any critiques for me, so I figured I should be a bit more open so he’d feel welcome to.  Mostly, I didn’t want the conversation into a “let’s dump on this guy” session. He looked a bit beaten down at that point.

    He mentioned a specific moment, about 2.5 months into the relationship where he had asked me a personal question about my family history. He remembered what I said verbatim: “I would rather not talk about that right now, but I will tell you later.”  I have a lot of trauma around that specific thing and I really don’t like talking about it.  He respectfully never brought it up again.  There’s a beautiful irony, at the time of our breakup, I had been considering sharing that part of myself so he’d understand me a bit better.  At one point I had one of those “emotionally tumultuous” laughs where I told him flat out that “I’ve had friends for over a decade who don’t know everything about me!”

    I explained how I go about dating.  That I have a rigorous checklist.  If you fit the profile of someone I can love, I decide that dating is a viable option. That for me, it’s just a matter of when not if.  That I understood that most people don’t think that way because it’s a bit calculating, possibly cold.  But that reasoning is why I wish he would have just told me when he first started having misgiving so we could have tackled the issue.  Because I don’t have doubts in my feelings.  That “I am dumb- some relationship stuff flies over my head- but I am honest”. 
    Something about these revelations surprised him, but I am not really sure what.  He responce: “I made a mistake” “I should have just talked to you.”

    We agreed that we were on different emotional timelines.  That perhaps the weird timing of dating during a pandemic and subsequent lockdown affected our relationship in a unique way.  That it may have thrown a wrench in the pacing  Just two people trying not to cry, in an outdoor city cafe, surrounded by pouring rain.

    The Afterward

    Okay, I am not going to leave it on that dour note. We managed to bring it around towards the end. We officially concluded the conversation after checking that everyone said what they had wanted. He mentioned that I could still call him to talk about it, if there was something else I forgot to say.  He offered me his coat several times, which I refused every time. (Because I would rather freeze than rely on him to keep me warm).  However, he did eventually convince me to switch seats and sit next to the outdoor heater.  He was nice enough to sparingly mention how much my teeth were chattering. It was a long 4 hours…
    I told him that I was willing to look past his absolutely abysmal breakup, blight it from my memory, and be his friend because everyone gets a case of the stupid from time to time.  Because he had been exemplary up until then.  That we could be friends but he would have to respect my “personal space” and my physical boundaries.  He said he understood and he could do that.

    We chatted like normal people for about another half an hour until the server came by and made another suggestion that I possibly “get a to-go bag for my food”.  I finally agreed and he took the time to ask for the check.  We were there quite a while but I’m sure he tipped well and no one else wanted to sit outside in the cold rain, under their covid safety tent but us.

    I walked him to the bus so he wouldn’t get lost.  I didn’t wait around because I was freezing.  Because I felt very exposed and raw and I wanted to just be home.  So I excused myself and he said he’d let me know when he got home.

    But then I got home, and there was just a pile of my crap on my floor.  He had brought over a bag with all (mostly all) of my overnight stuff.  I had taken the bag upstairs, emptied it haphazardly all over my floor, before going back downstairs and heading off to the conversation cafe.  Most of it is still there. There’s a package with the last part of my birthday gift.  I still haven’t opened it because I can’t right now.

    So that’s where I am.  Just full of emotions, yet empty.

  • @ScorpVirgo
    Oh my goodness!! Happy Birthday!! I wish you all the best ❤

  • @ScorpVirgo
    Happy Birthday ! Health and happiness to you. Hope you enjoyed your day !

  • @ToriDori
    I have to read your update more closely and also process It a bit. I’m feel sadness. I hope you are ok?

  • @OJ
    Whew, such a simple, but loaded question. I am so deeply hurt. I had a... several good cries last night and I realized that I was so focused on proving my perspective and making him see what he had done, that I hadn't addressed the actual emotional ramifications of what he put me through.

    Unfortunately, I will have to take him up on that phone call. I need to hear him acknowledge that his actions didn't simply "make me angry" but that all of his emotional demands hurt me sooooo deeply.

    We have to discuss why he brought my father into this. How him doing his damnest to emotionally bind me to him was so especially devastating when it was revealed that he was the one keeping the distance.

    Now that all the ground work has been done, I need to hear him fully acknowlege the ramifications of his actions.

  • @ToriDori I’ve always admired the strength of Virgo women. You carry your emotions internally, but I could feel those emotions from both of you from your post. I think you are both working towards defining the depths of your friendship/relationship. When you feel and express your needs and what works or doesn’t work for you, then it helps both of you to grow. With growth, there is also pain.

    “ We have to discuss why he brought my father into this. How him doing his damnest to emotionally bind me to him was so especially devastating when it was revealed that he was the one keeping the distance“

    I’m not sure what this actually means, and if you’re not comfortable explaining it, that’s ok.

    Trying to start or maintain a relationship, especially in its early stages during this pandemic is tricky. I was thinking of this with ScorpVirgo. There’s nowhere to go, very little to do, which makes dating near impossible. There are marriages breaking up, people out of work, others overworked and our movements are restricted. There are social and psychological as well as economical impacts. Anyways, I digress.

    My gut feeling is that you guys will get thru this. You care enough to want answers and he cares enough to give them.

  • @OJ

    I know a lot of Virgos that keep a stiff upper lip in emotional- most situations. X'D  But we do have to reprogram ourselves to let people know that we actually do have feelings!  We are sensitive babies behind all these walls we build up.

    I think that the conversation we had was soooo productive.  The basic treatment, which I continue to receive, made me feel confident that we could be friends.  I think even better friends than lovers now that the emotional-imbalance is not in play.  I have grieved the start of the relationship and what I hoped it could have been.  But I am hopeful for the future.

    As for the dad thing, he requested to meet my father during my birthday dinner (he was already going to meet two of my best friends for the first time.).  I honored it because what man makes that request if he is not serious?  Besides, he had been so open with his friend circle- constantly referring to them as "our friends"- I didn't see the harm in reciprocating.

    Covid made it hard for my friends to hang out and I felt like I was lagging behind in the "enmeshing your friends" department.  If he wanted to meet my dad, even though I was apprehensive, I had no reason not to trust his intentions.

    A keynote here, my father has only met the men I have dated 4 times.  That's 4 individual meetings.  Two of them were with the same guy, two were accidental.  This man is one of those four meetings.

    Meeting the parents is such a huge relationship milestone.  I did not ask to meet his parents in turn.  In my opinion, they are his parents and that is his choice to offer that (they are also older and ya know pandemic).  I had met his brother several times and basically all of his long time friends.  I was happy to be included.

    The timeline for this is 4 weeks before the breakup.  Which puts his "I started to have doubts" problem at two weeks after that.

    So while I may not have given him the verbal vulnerability that he required; he requested and received other evidence of my dedication to him and the relationship.  My father was his biggest ask and I delivered it.  He knew I had a very strong connection with my dad, he knew that he meant a lot to me.  However, it was an unfair ask if he wasn't certain of his feelings at the time he made the request.

    By that I mean, if he wasn't 110% sure that he wanted to be in the relationship, he should not have brought my father into this.  Meeting the parents usual signifies a certain amount of intention and permanence in the relationship.

    This point has become a larger sticking point for me since he has so clearly denied that he was stressed out when this occurred.  That means that all of this was just a thing that happened, that he let happen.  He continued to make choices that pushed me out but made requests to emotionally draw me in.

    This is probably the biggest reason for feeling emotionally betrayed.