A philosophical question for TheCaptain (and others) concerning fate and freewill



  • I'm just curious as to your thoughts on fate and freewill.
    Is freewill limited to the confines of fate and if so, is it foolish to think one can change fate itself?

    Thanks πŸ™‚



  • I believe that free will kicks into play when we attain self-awareness. Before that, I think we just stumble through, blindly accepting what fate sends us. Self-awareness gives us the freedom of choosing our own fate.



  • @thecaptain That's an excellent explaination of Freewill and I couldn't agree more.
    However, in the back of my mind I'm still pondering the question of fate.. Without a doubt knowing oneself is essential component of Freewill, while at the same time it appears to be limited or even controlled by the parameters of Fate/chance.

    For example: We don't have a choice in being born, who our parents are, time period, location, status or health ... etc etc.. Likewise we don't have a general choice about death or all the little and big random accidents of chance/fate... or do we?

    Yes I'm asking that age old question about the nature of Fate itself, along with the ethical question of "What if a person could foresee future events and used freewill to change them"?
    Would that be considered playing "God"?



  • I think our free will are our choices we make. I can look back at some choices that I made that at the time didn't seem important, but I listened to my intuition and I can now see how they made a huge impact to where I am now. So was it fate that I met the road and then chose my direction...Looking back I can see a few of why I chose them... for what I felt were the right reasons.
    In a few books I read, I like to think it has some closeness to fate and the choices you make. Where the character gets glimpses of different lives all based off of the one person and depending on the chose made they lived similar life's or totally different ones... some in the same situation...being you are who you are because of your added experiences we have accumulated. Realizing who you are is important because then you can keep choosing new roads to explore...or keep following the one path.



  • @ddude actually, I believe we have a full choice of in what sort of body we are born, the lessons we will need to experience, and the people we will live with and meet. I believe this assessment/planning of what we will need for our growth and learning in our new life takes places before we are born and is made between us and our angel and spirit mentors and guides.



  • @tarotnick Thanks so much for your response. I also believe we are captains of our own sea, the architects of our own lives. While at the same time I ponder what those limitations and boundaries are... but that's another million dollar question.

    Let's back up for second and consider someone else's vessel, freewill and "Fate".

    Have you ever pierced through the veil and intuitively felt like you should withhold certain vital information from an querent and/or considered the gravity of your response?



  • @thecaptain said in A philosophical question for TheCaptain (and others) concerning fate and freewill:

    @ddude actually, I believe we have a full choice of in what sort of body we are born, the lessons we will need to experience, and the people we will live with and meet. I believe this assessment/planning of what we will need for our growth and learning in our new life takes places before we are born and is made between us and our angel and spirit mentors and guides.

    Awhh!!! Now this looks promising, sorta like the crossroads where western philosophy meets eastern philosophy πŸ™‚ Just what the doctor ordered...

    Historically speaking western philosophy has always regarded Fate as a gift, even the god(s) were subject to fate: "a predestined path meant to be accepted and lived unadulterately". In those days it was thought to be cowardly if one did not accept his own fate... Which to me is a complete and total contradiction of the idea of Freewill, but that's neither here nor there...

    No doubt this western belief pre-dates Socrates and Plato and likewise reflects in Greek mythologies like Pricus and Homer's Ilaid... Then we have the early Roman Catholic church with the Doctrine of Predestination... "That entire notion of separation of the goats from the sheeps". Oh and we can't forget about Golden Dawn's view or Carl Orff's Carmina Burana, a collection of 24 medevil poems... right up to HG. Wells classic - Time Machine..
    and soo sooo many more.

    Yea, I've pondered alittle on the idea of "Fate".. seems like a paradox to me.



  • @ddude Not information, I try my hardest to always be open and honest...hence I don't play poker... I look at it as the choice I could have made, I can spot a few that would have total change my direction. The gravity of the decision allowed me to the path I now take. Had I taken the other road...what would be my path now? The lessons I have learned (The Pain) I have learned forgiveness and seek-ed out Love to balance what I was missing. Would I have been able to do that on other roads....hmmmm I don't think so because I trusted the feeling not to do it...



  • Is it simply that we are 'Fate', through our free-willed, but often unconscious, choices and decisions?



  • @tarotnick Thanks for sharing πŸ™‚



  • @thecaptain Now I hear the resounding echoes of Henry David Thoreau "Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity"

    Thanks



  • @ddude

    The following is not really relevant but I saw it at a wedding and loved it. "Meeting you was fate, becoming your friend was a choice, but falling in love with you was beyond my control." - Unknown



  • @jayann said in A philosophical question for TheCaptain (and others) concerning fate and freewill:

    @ddude

    The following is not really relevant but I saw it at a wedding and loved it. "Meeting you was fate, becoming your friend was a choice, but falling in love with you was beyond my control." - Unknown

    That's beautiful Jayann, I wonder who wrote it?

    "Poetry is the music of the soul, and, above all, of great and feeling souls" - Voltaire

    I think it's very revelant to the topic. Poetry is an artistic expression of the Soul, just as all the preforming arts. It's like a universal language that crosses both time, space and cultural differences. Those who feel it find solice within. They may not fully understand the Poets message (for writers are mysterious creatures) but they feel the essence, the power behind it.

    Vincent van Gogh β€” 'Art is to console those who are broken by life"

    I'm glad to see you're posting again. Please don't get hung up on my question of "Philosophy of Fate"... at least not yet... take baby steps

    You got this girl!!! πŸ™‚



  • @ddude ty and have a good day.



  • I see the EXPAND YOUR THINKING card. Fate and "free will" do go hand and hand yet like all two sides to the truth it is a very expansive concept. The only fate that is absolute in my mind is our death. I believe we have a plan before birth and in that respect a free will to choose our challenges. This belief frees you from the victim mentality that has the power to limit your desired fate. Before birth we decide the soul growth we desire. Some may equate this with karma. We review past lives and lessons and team up with other souls in soul contracts to help each in our earth journey towards higher consciousness. As a medium I am aware that not all spirits radiate with equal energy. Souls leave the earth with one energy...LOVE. God being LOVE is were the soul returns as both a separate spirit yet also one with the energy we call GOD who is everywhere. This is another EXPANSIVE thought! Our souls grow in energy according to how much LOVE we give and gather. On earth there is a natural law of cause and effect . This is both a planned fate yet free will. Often we think struggle means failure. We think in terms of punishment when really we chose challenging exchanges with others with the desire to learn and serve in our's and others healing. Earth is not meant to be perfect. It would serve no purpose. We are not judged by not meeting our goals. But we are given many chances to try again. So free will figures into that concept. We may choose a toxic relationship with a choice to learn from it and move onto a higher vibration. If we bail on it and not learn something we will just get another chance. New relationship but same challenge. Into this expanded thinking also comes to play the concept of gathering self LOVE. So many layers of truth are playing out all at once! Regret eats at our ability to love and forgive ourselves and we must conquer that first as we can not love others in the energy form of ACTION until we love ourselves. Without self love we can not connect to others in compassion. There is a disconnect. Others in the role of the victim will feel abandoned yet it is the offenders own abandonment of self that creates the energy of self destructiveness. Many closed fearful hearts are not lying when they say they do have love inside. A thought is not enough. If we consider all the hurt we gathered from others, the root of intention is not so much cruel intention but that person's own disconnect with LOVE. An empty cup can not give what it does not have. It is our free will to not see ourselves as unlovable when in that toxic situation. We have the free will to CHOOSE LOVE. Is this getting expansive enough yet? As a poet , a healer, an artist I chose a life that has been both extra hard yet profound. I had to see the depths of both heaven and hell to translate that truth. BLESSINGS!



  • @blmoon
    OH and big PS! My most personal belief in FREE WILL is our choice to contribute to good over evil. This is the creator's creed. Emotions are energy. Pain, hurt , anger despair, rage are energy. We choose to react or create more of the same. OR We raise our GOD energy when we choose to turn our worst energy and create beauty! In that context we produce GOD and LOVE and it heals! What a divine truth!



  • @blmoon
    If letting some go because someone demands it was free will. If fear is not love, so refusing to return to past behaviour pattern was subconscious free will. If free will and true love is giving that person, the space to make the decision best suited for their future. Why has fate brought them into my life to break my heart, leave me with regrets about actions taken or not taken, leaving me with loneliness and craving their company.



  • @jayann

    Jayann, Blmoon answered your question already.. You're not truly letting go of that person.

    Meditate on what Blmoon is saying...

    "We may choose a toxic relationship with a choice to learn from it and move onto a higher vibration. If we bail on it and not learn something we will just get another chance. New relationship but same challenge - An empty cup has nothing to offer... An empty cup can not offer what it does not have"

    Jayann, your life is at a crossroads, its sorta like Egar Allen Poes - Decent into Maelstrom or Christ decent into Hell...

    Now this next statement is not to meant to place blame or fault, for it's the path that every soul must travel. It's like a double edged sword, it cuts both ways for a purpose.

    You're first and foremost priority is you're own CUP!!! The BUCK starts and stops at YOU. Your innerself/higherself is screaming to be free. So fill your cup with everything that is good and positive in this universe and then use it to help others along your journey..

    Like I said this topic of Fate is very advanced, Blmoon even described it as an expansive concept.... It's waiting on you, it's calling you but, first you must fill your own cup with water from the everlasting well of life ... all that is good and pure..

    Only then will you truly understand.

    "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not ableΒ to bear it, neither yet now are ye able"

    "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known"

    I just luv the poetic message behind this writing...



  • @blmoon said in A philosophical question for TheCaptain (and others) concerning fate and freewill:

    As a poet , a healer, an artist I chose a life that has been both extra hard yet profound. I had to see the depths of both heaven and hell to translate that truth. BLESSINGS!

    Thanks for your response Blmoon, its always a pleasure to run across an old and kindred soul...

    Your last statement reminds me of Dante's and Vigils journey through Hell, Purgatory and eventually Paradise... For those who are not famliar it's a poem by Dante Alighieri - The Divine Comedy, written between 1308 and completed in 1320.

    Very good read



  • @jayann
    ALL painful experiences in our lives either leave us bitter or better. Being tide down by health issues or life shattering events is a universal experience all of us have experienced. The circumstances may be different but the felling of being trapped "with ourselves". No distractions to busy our awareness is a wake up call to go within and mostly to get along with our own loving company. ALONE, yet in this lonesomeness....we actually realize just how much we are not alone at all! A metaphorical example would be Jesus going into the desert ALONE during his darkest moments of feeling persecuted and like all humans very TEMPTED to feel abandoned. He knew he was not safe yet in the end resurrection was his higher purpose. Your mantra for healing is I AM SAFE. Don't analyse it just repeat it everyday. I am aware you are in deep resistance but say this anyway as there are many readers out their ready to hear this. Someone gets it! BLESSINGS!