Need a reading on family and job situations



  • I'm a similar soul to you: a dreamer and soul wanderer. I like to let people be, and stick to my own beliefs. I don't like to force what I think on others either; I merely "suggest". I've got to the point in my own life where I'd rather be kicking around in sloppy clothes, with my hair long and grey (well, it's nearly at that point lol) and not worry about what my outer looks like.

    Like you, I'm exhausted from financial worries and feel like it's only those who treat others badly who seem to financially better off than folk like you and me. It's frustrating!

    I'm a bit trapped too, because due to the huge dent in finances last year, I ended up going bankrupt in order to clear debts that I'd been stoically trying to pay. I ended up realising I couldn't do it anymore; debt relief was no help to me, so bankruptcy was my only option. But that brings with it, it's own set of restrictions, ie, I can't get credit, may have trouble finding rental accommodation if it's done through a real estate, may have trouble setting up a business of my own, etc. I knew all this before I went into it, and this will continue for three years.

    It seems like everything in my life has lead to this point: money or the lack thereof. How can we, as you put it, reconcile needing money to live when it seems like our souls are screaming for us to go off the grid, so to speak? How do you balance both needs?

    A commune may be the answer ... lol



  • I'm at odds as to how we, as you put it, reconcile the need money to survive thing, while our souls are screaming for us to go off the grid, so to speak. Like you, I'm also a dreamer by nature; a dreamer and soul wanderer. I like to let people be, don't like to force my ideas on them, and wish they could let me be too. But so far, that mostly hasn't happened. The Beatles knew what they were saying when they released "Let It Be". If only ego wasn't still such a strong driver in life's vehicle, but it is.

    With the pinnacle of my own financial worries being to go voluntarily bankrupt early this year, that's brought with it it's own set of restrictions. I can't get a line of credit, can't get a loan, may not be able to set up my own business with an abn (not sure about that) and may not be able to easily find rental accommodation that isn't privately leased. In doing this, I'd got to the point where I'd been valiantly trying to keep paying my debts, but it got so that I realised I couldn't meet those debts anymore. Debt relief was of no help as I hadn't defaulted on anything, so bankruptcy was the only option for me after financial counselling.

    I tried to do the right thing, even though the thought of going bankrupt was very foreign to me. I'd always paid my way, but had to give that up in order to clear my financial slate.

    I'm not sure what comes next really. All I know is that, like you, I'm exhausted from this constant feeling of insecurity and worry. No wonder my blood pressure is high these days!

    I dream about feeling like I don't have a care in the world, but that seems so far away ...



  • It's interesting that you mentioned a commune.

    I read a fan fiction story (yes I read those) about how a city boy was lost driving, and ended up at a cafe off the beaten track by accident. It's a love story between him and the owner, against the backdrop of a self-contained community of a family run business. They own the land and different members of the family harvest the produce, manage the business, run the cafe, cook the food, serve the customers etc. And at the end of the day, they get together as a group and have a good meal together. Whenever there's a problem, the family and their close friends band together to help. It is a stark contrast to the lifestyle the city boy has, but he learns to value the richness of the kinship and the pace and way of life. Kinda losing yourself to find yourself kind of story, with the romanticism of a small community.

    The present me is not really given to manual labour, out in the fields, and being exposed to dirt, weather elements and critters, etc. But in another life, I could imagine that. The idea of doing an honest day's work with your hands, within that kind of context, appeals to me. Working with your mind, body and senses and around nature, textures, colors and having acquiring skills/knowledge 'of the earth' as it were, is just very interesting. Everyone has an individual role but also a collective responsibility towards each other. Not just the business but each others' well being.

    Everything is pretty much self-contained (but well-equipped and modern) and you just travel out to the town or city, to get any stuff that you need etc.

    I've been in the headspace of finding my own tribe for a while now. I'm a loner by nature, but I think I identify as a loner also because I couldn't count on anyone to be there for me within my family. The shy and sensitive child had to find a way to adapt and survive. But there's a deep longing for companionship - I want to be known by others. A lot of my circumstances keep me isolated from my friends and interests. I rarely have a chance to go out, unless it's only doing errands. The only people I interact with are my family whom I don't get along with, who don't have my back.

    I'm tired of feeling alone. That might be why I've been feeling drawn to community based professions. I want my effort to benefit others and the community. Might be part of the reason I've taken so easily to caregiving, in that there's a realness and earthiness to it.

    Also, I really want to be able to have my own space. Living with my family has made me fed up of living with others. We're also damaging any remaining ties by staying under the same roof. Had it not been for the caregiving, I would have attempted to move out some time back. I won't be able to afford rental anymore unless I'm able to work full-time again, and without any home responsibilities. I believe I'm still on the trajectory to moving out eventually. It's just going to be delayed for a very long while. I'm not ok with that - but what can you do.

    Actually I feel as if you made a wise choice with bankruptcy instead of fighting against the current to pay off debt. Admittedly it isn't the kind of choice you'd want to have to make, as it comes with its many restrictions. But the fixed time and routine might give you time to contemplate what come could next after the 3 years are done.

    I really identify with these kind of 'rock and hard place' type of decisions. The caregiving is the latest one, and giving up the job to save my bacon etc. Further back, my sis and I helped pay off the mortgage loan for the family house, using money from our government retirement account. There's a mandatory savings scheme, in which a portion of your monthly salary goes into a retirement account every month. Public housing is only one of the few things for which you're allowed to use the money prematurely. But in doing so, we became part owners, and had to sign away our eligibility to get our own apartments (public housing) later on.

    My folks made a huge profit from selling the old place but through poor financial planning and decisions, they squandered the money. I still don't know how they managed to. At first, they were servicing the monthly installments using the money from their respective retirement accounts. Then they both decided to become self-employed, while having the mortgage loan over their head. So they had to make monthly cash payments instead. Because their respective self-employment stints didn't pay off, they had to slave away to still keep up with the mortgage payments. Finally they couldn't anymore, and then the kids inherited the problem. It wasn't our cross to bear. But we still had to solve the problem. It was either to choose to be saddled with a huge monthly payment each, for years, until the loan was repaid - or for 1 or 2 of us to use our retirement account money to settle the loan balance of more than $80,000. Thankfully my sis and I had enough in the accounts. We knew what we would be giving up, but we were not prepared to be saddled with debt like that.

    Now, my folks have all but forgotten that sacrifice, and the reason they can live without that hanging over their heads. And my bro got away scot free. They have coddled him into the entitled personality he has. He has no respect for his sisters. They way they treat me, I do regret making the sacrifice. And my folks continue to make careless decisions. I know we would have been worse off choosing the other option of monthly repayment for years. But it meant giving up the chance to own my own property, and I have paid dearly for that.

    There's no right decision. The only way through is to hunker down and deal with the consequences of whichever decision you make...knowing there will be days you fall over to feeling burdened and victimized, and other days when you are able to keep the faith...

    I think it's healthy, at least, to voice out and acknowledge the misgivings and negativity.



  • Well, negativity seems to abound lately! It seems that you have done what you could for your family, and suffered for it. It's funny how short their memories can be isn't it? They forget the good you've done on your behalf, and as usual, favour the son who's done nothing or very little. I can't understand that attitude, but there it is. It's been the same in my own family. My sister - God rest her soul - could do no wrong (yeah, haha) yet anything I did which was normal teenage behaviour mostly, was majorly wrong and I was an "embarrassment" to the family.

    Lately, I'm questioning the years of good work I gave to the hospital here, because I'm being prevented from even getting two days a week there because a certain little upstart doesn't want me back because I upset her not long before I left. It wasn't deliberate, but it's how it ended up, and yet all the good work I did for nearly seven years has been forgotten. As well as my old boss being too gutless to make a decision of her own - she wanted to put me back on - and I'm left without a way of having a livelihood.

    It makes you wonder doesn't it? What on earth did we do wrong to deserve being treated like this? the day after my sister's funeral, we were at my brother in law's on our way home. Right in front of me, he gave something to his brother for their daughter; something precious that I would've loved to have owned of my sister's and would've looked after. But no, it went to them. There were other things that went on, but I won't go into it all now, but sheesh, it's enough to make me want to give up!

    I wish to heck I knew what Spirit wants me to do now. How does a person get out from under all this shite? I'm losing faith very quickly and don't like that feeling much at all. I don't know who to trust anymore.

    I'm guessing that's part of the path we chose, but boy, does it have to be so damned thankless and hard? I'm tired of feeling like every choice I've made in recent years has been wrong and I'm paying for it still. Yet those who have wronged me seem to prosper. Why is that?



  • I meant "the good you've done on THEIR behalf" lol!



  • Hi Moon,

    I relate to your work experience. I've also had experiences where my bosses did not stick up for me, and there are at least two instances in which I was pushed out of my job - in spite of doing well - because I stood up for myself. I get why you're upset. I was too.

    Yes it does seem like people who are more focused on their own needs, seem to be having a better time. Perhaps it is that way on some level. Because they are energetically aligned - more so than those of us who are more attuned with caring about others, feelings etc. Our energy is all messed up as compared to them. No wonder we don't get good things easily.

    But having said that, I don't think we're disadvantaged - even though we seem to be perpetually having a rougher time. There's some unique purpose (that we're not privvy to) for us being the way that we are, and for the path we've chosen.

    I get upset with my family regularly - but I'm starting to see it as superficial irritation. Even though a lot of the heartache goes very deep, I've lost a lot of the bitterness and hurt I used to feel. We do the best at any time, with the choices we have. Sometimes we take the choices that hurt others - no matter the intention. We learn and we move on. And nobody is immune to hard times. Even if we don't see how they struggle, everyone does, in some way(s). I can trace a lot of my faulty thought patterns and motivation towards wrong choices, to the way I was brought up and what I was conditioned to think. My folks aren't necessarily the best people to have been raising children. There's too much emotional detachment and not enough nurturing ability. And they also inherited all their childhood wounds from their families or origin and passed them along to us. But I'd like to believe they did the best - given their circumstances. There's no point continuing to hold them responsible. And I also acknowledge that they've led exceedingly difficult lives too, like they cannot catch a break somehow, and seem to veer towards the choices that make things harder.

    We give family too much credit in putting them to a higher standard of behavior. But they are still people - they will still do messed up stuff, as we do. And I suppose it's our individual choice to decide if the relationships are worth holding on to, or the extent to which we allow/encourage interaction.

    Being as interconnected as we are, there's no way we can get through life without crossing each other. But one of the pieces that differ in this communal life experience is how we deal with what happens to us. Do we allow it add richness to the fabric of who we are, or do we let it erode us? Horrible days/life phases aside - can we say that we are 'better souls' now? I can say that my answer is Yes. For all the bad things that have happened to me, and the wrongs I've done and/or continue to do, for the ways I've grown and in the ways I fall short - it still is Yes. Knowing that we all have this deeply individual and personal learning journey/accountability to life - helps me realize that there's really no point continuing to hold others responsible - for our messed up experience. We are the only ones who get to decide how we feel about it. Even if there are periods when we get hurt so badly that we stop believing and just fall off the grid, into despair and negativity - I think the key to the door that leads to rebirth always remains in our pocket, whenever we're ready to use it. It never is truly lost, but perhaps we tend to forget it's there.

    I hope that you can find a viable opportunity work soon. I have the same hope for me 🙂



  • I'm sure we both will find something viable, both financially and spiritually. I need to get over the fear of the unknown, which is a tall order, but necessary I think, in order to let go of the past and past influences of family, ex's and even society in general. We're conditioned to believe that we're nothing if we don't have an "occupation". These days, I'm asked "what do you do with yourself?" My response is generally to say that I'm enjoying semi-retirement, and fill my time in with painting the house we're renting (owner pays for the paint), other things around the house etc. In truth, without $$ factored in, I'm happy with what I'm doing. If I don't worry about where the money is going to come from once the wood season ends, I love getting up and deciding to do whatever needs doing around the house. Or simply doing very little. I have the odd day like that; where I am so damned tired from mowing (we have a lot of lawn here) painting, etc., that I mooch around, maybe go for a walk on my treadmill or around the farm, then take to my bed for a few hours.

    I think we need to consider our true natures here too. As you said above, you're a soul wanderer, and I am the same. Yet, I love to be busy; I love to beautify a room by a splash of paint. Painting puts me in the zone, so to speak. I like that feeling of achievement at the end of the day. In saying all that though, I'm slowly coming around to realising that my true nature is to have the time to sit and dream, to visualise how I'd like this part of my life to look, to release old fears that prevent me from being successful in something that I've driven myself. To think of nothing sometimes. I lost the art of meditating when my marriage ended, and need to bring that back.

    People like you and me will always be hurt by others, mainly because we don't think or see the world the same way as they do. We also can't be compartmentalised, and you know what they say: people always fear what they don't understand.

    And you're right too: the key to rebirth IS in our own pockets, and yes, we do forget it's there. I also think that being afraid of using it is another thing that keeps it pocketed. Will others accept us if we rise up out of this mire and shine the way we're meant to? Who will remain close to us? What if we fail?

    You're also dead on where you say that we can't hold others responsible for how we feel. Again, we've been conditioned to act a certain way, to BE a certain way, and as we start to release those chains, we see that our expectations of how others should behave falls short. Others will rarely come around to our way of dealing with things. We need to be WHO we are and act/respond accordingly, and let other people do the same in their sphere of life and not expect them to be the same as us. Even though those others mostly expected US to be like them.

    So it leads to another question: Are we a threat to the equilibrium of others? I think we are. That's probably why we're the ones who become scapegoats and fall guys. Or ignored.



  • Hi Moon,

    I think we start to let go of fear of the unknown, piece by piece. I'm still learning, but I'm 'braver' now than I used to be. I let fear keep me from trying out a lot of stuff when I was younger, and really, the 'what ifs' were very inconsequential - just that I could not see it as such, at the time. I read it somewhere that sometimes we are afraid that we are more powerful than we realize - and I guess the fear is that we will screw it up somehow. There is an undertone about the expectations of others and being judged. If we lived in a bubble, we wouldn't be nearly as tentative about taking new steps. Any 'failures' would be seen more easily as just part of learning. No biggie. This probably ties in to the 'key in the pocket' and being afraid to use it, because we don't know what will happen. I just feel that I don't want to keep limiting myself. We're here to learn and experience and some of the magic and rewards come when you take leaps of faith. And they don't have to be big. And you get a little braver each time.

    You're right - people get defined by what they do or aren't doing. I don't particularly like that. We are more than labels. What I do like is how you described your daily life. It sounds wonderful actually. Argh, why does the money part have to figure in? Perhaps part of the difficulty comes from straddling 2 realities ; it's like we're out of the Matrix, but not able to fully get out. Not without risk of being left without adequate resources - which is essentially some of our challenges right now. And then, in this limbo state, the doubt creeps in. But we can't go back to how it was before either, as we have already outgrown that concept.

    Scapegoat - yes absolutely. As you said, people fear what they don't understand. Yes they see us as a threat to their equilibrium - what they understand of the world - good, bad, right wrong etc, what they have and what they're trying to attain/achieve.

    I'm experiencing that with my sis right now. She has completely painted me as villain in her story. I may as well be speaking an entirely different language, when I try to reason with her. She feels justified in putting in a position of harm (economic, physical and psychological) to get what she wants. That's how far gone it is. When I try to push back or enact boundaries, it gets seen as a personal attack, and an attempt to take her happiness. And she has managed to compartmentalize things to make it seem to her that my personal issues/burdens are the least in the family, so it's only right that I shoulder the bulk of the caregiving. What the? My health and survival are at stake and I'm kept in stasis so that everyone can ride on that stability to move forward - and somehow I'm the bad guy for trying to fight for my life?

    Anyone in my position - who was reduced to only existing for others' needs and cannibalizing their own - would be burnt out and in depression. But she keeps throwing the 'you need to pray cos there's something in you that needs healing' and dismisses the glaring external circumstances. Wow, so messed up man. We all need inner healing, but to get to a point where one can gloss over how they're trampling on others... I actually asked her to consider why she thought it was ok for me to sacrifice my health and well-being - and she completely side-stepped that. Instead, she brought up every past transgression - real or perceived - to bolster her case that I'm the bad one. I shouldn't be surprised because it's always been like that with us. When compromise is needed, she tends to look for ways to push me into the position of giving more, so she doesn't have to. I only just recently recognized the pattern.

    But like I said, there's no real right and wrong. It's not a fault thing, and as frustrated as I get, I don't blame my sis or my family. People are doing what they think is right. And we are not always tasked with the same life lessons, nor can we leapfrog the learning process. That's why there's so much conflict - cos we're literally not on the same page. There are philosophical differences and we're gonna feel threatened by anyone who believes differently. I believe in everyone giving/giving up in near equal measure, so that everyone can get, and all can move forward some. They believe in 'me, me me, or else I have nothing'. It's irrational thinking... founded on a very narrow ledge, where the slightest deviation feels that the world is over. Our family has made too many sacrifices until people are bonkers and too over-protective about their future. I've been there. I know that it feels like. But I also know it's not true. You can't control everything to the letter. If life decides to take a curve, you must learn to adapt too. As difficult as it always is.

    A little while back, I wondered if part of my purpose was to bridge that gap in my family. To help them understand that it's not 'all or nothing'. But now I see we're just all at different points. They're not willing to listen and not ready to hear. And I also lack the ability to be persuasive. Everything is coming out as anger and frustration. It's not possible to come to agreement, not in this lifetime. We're meant to set off in different directions eventually. I fully accept that but I seriously do not know how I can cope living in these circumstances in the meantime.



  • It's interesting how you mention that you and your sister seem to speak an entirely different language. When my sister was alive and in better health, she used to drive me INSANE because she was so narrow-minded and cloistered in her bubble of ill health (even when she was "well" she still was an epileptic and suffered lupus) and conversations with her would end up with me rolling my eyes skywards and thinking of a way to end the chat (she used to talk talk talk even when a good movie was on or whatever). I know she got lonely being home all the time, but jeeeeeze loueeezee ... Looking back, we weren't compatible, quite simply put. I loved her but wanted to throttle her at the same time. This one small event still sticks in my mind, even now: I mentioned that I'd seen Philadelphia - one of Tom Hanks' absolutely classic movies in my humble view - and how good it was. My sister said "eeyew, that's about gay people isn't it?" Oh God ... OMFG ... I was astounded. IT WAS THE 90'S!!!! She was nearly 7 years older than me. But that's what I was dealing with, and it's very likely she thought the same of me. I could imagine the chat between her and my mother "oh Mum, she watches movies about gay people and ENJOYS them!!!"

    In fact, I never seemed to be on the same page as the rest of my family. I was described as the black sheep, and as it turned out, I became the prodigal daughter. Of course, that was MY fault; no-one else in the family was to blame, just me.

    My father loved to throw up at me/us how much he'd gone without so we could have this or that. We weren't a well off family; we had the basics, but not a lot of luxuries. I never asked for much, and if anything, I was the one who got stuck with washing dishes, would offer to help mum do housework, etc., and yet I was still the bad guy as things turned out.

    Why do some parents throw up what are basic parental "duties" as a way of getting the guilt juice to flow? That's something I made sure I NEVER did with my daughter or foster son. Even when he went off the rails, I never ever threw up at him how I'd gone to court for him, dealt with his totally insane mother, sacrificed this or that, whatever else I'd done for him, even though to be honest, I went well above the call of duty where he was concerned. I wanted him to feel as loved and special as my daughter, so the balancing act on its own was hard; trying not to let my daughter feel usurped by him, and him not feeling like a blow in. But never would that ever be thrown in his face.

    Yep, people do what they think is right, which is why it can be so frustrating for us trying to be heard and understood. I think we have a never ending battle with that in truth. We see the world from a different angle - as I mentioned above - and it's actually up to US to gently and patiently educate others. We can never influence anyone, but merely lead by our own example. Some will ask us deep and pointed questions about our view of life and the world. But only a very few. Maybe that's our "reward" ... where one questions their own way of living and thinking and comes around our way, then there will be more.

    Even though I'd be described as a hermit lately, I'm finding I don't want or need other people around that much. My partner comes home from work and I'm happy he's there. But for the most part, I'm pretty happy being on my own. As I've learned throughout life, we're better off alone than spending time in the company of those who make us want to slash our own throats lol!

    And yet, as you say in your final paragraph, how do we strike that balance between material demands and necessities and being off the grid? I know I like my creature comforts, but am growing very tired of everything costing more, wages never increasing, running out of stuff and not having enough $$ to buy anymore ... gee, it wasn't this difficult even two years ago! Maybe it's a way of Spirit encouraging us to make do, or do without. But damn it, I much prefer Dove soap to Sunlight soap; Kraft peanut butter to no-name brand; T-bone steak to sausages!!!!

    I think too, in a nutshell, we've both had to accept that we aren't always meant to get along with family. Family, in this life at least, would not be a nurturing environment for us. We've had to learn to nurture ourselves, even if that meant suffering so much loneliness and isolation.

    You know, I just read over what I'd written so far, and at first I thought "gee, this is a whole lot of senseless prattle". Then realised that no ... it actually isn't. The thread throughout what I've tapped out seems to say that people like us will make sure to be better parents and to make a happier family than we grew up in. I know that sounds judgemental, and I accepted years ago that my folks did the best they could with what they knew, but yessss ... I did try to improve the parenting skills I'd been shown. And I only had one child until later years when we "bought" Peter lol!



  • HI Moon,

    I've always wanted to watch Philadelphia! I'm not sure it even played here when it was released, as my country was and is still largely conservative. I only saw a few random clips on TV over the years (I think they were interviewing Tom Hanks) and those were so powerful. I think I would have cried buckets to see the whole movie. How people so easily dehumanize others is very difficult to witness. And the theme song by Bruce Springsteen is so haunting and awesome.

    I'm the black sheep too. Come to think of it I'm even born in the Year of the Sheep in Chinese Astrology/Horoscopes. The middle child and designed to be different, an outcast and a rebel.

    You didn't deserve any of what your dad or sis dished out. I got some of that as well. Dad has an emotional and verbally abusive side to him. It was really bad when we were kids. But he was also fuelled (at the time) by the sheer fatigue of working 3 jobs just to raise a family. Unfortunately I'm kinda in that boat now, or I was, when I was juggling a full time job and caregiving. So tired that I became highly irritable. Not giving my Dad excuses, but I do empathize with his situation. We forget that family and folks are just people too.

    And you are absolutely right - the one good thing that has come from this unahppy childhood and having to learn to nurture myself, is that I know the value of nurturing. Parenthood is a privilege. I wish every child was blessed enough to feel valued, honored, accepted, protected and encouraged to find and follow his own path, values and dreams. I heard someone say this the other day, about 'being the person you needed when you were a kid'. And that's exactly my experience now. I'm putting my whole self, all the good parts of me into taking care of my cat. I do all I can to soothe his insecurites, to protect him and tend to his needs, to make him feel loved. I know that might seem weird to people, but for all intents and purposes, he is my child and he is precious. He's the best part of every day - no matter how tough it is, or how tired I am. I'm giving him everything I never got when I was kid. This might be the single important role I will ever play in my life. And it hurts, but it is healing me as well.

    I find it curious that I have been through so much nonsense in my life, and it has made me a kinder person. But the converse has happened with my siblings. They seem 'harder-edged' and less tolerant. Blame and bitterness is still a big part of their experience.

    Haha yeah, I've been a hermit for years. It is what frustrates me about my living situation. I'd much rather be alone, then have to stay with people with whom I don't get along.

    Yep I agree. Leading by example is the most valuable gift we can give back to the world. Perhaps it is time for me to start to reconcile that it's not punishment to perpetually be placed at odds with others - we're simply different, as you said. We are meant to go against the grain. If I had children, I'd want them to live in a much kinder, more inclusive and less judgmental world. There's been a lot of progress in the last decade alone, but there's room for so much more.

    Haha, you made me giggle 🙂 I relate! It's getting harder to earn money and the same amount gets you less. I also wish that things turn out better for us in time. It is becoming too difficult to struggle this way. Lord knows we could really use some good tidings.



  • I don't know why folk like us are always put in a position of struggle. Struggle to make ends meet financially, struggle for our own position socially, struggle to succeed at work, etc. I'm tired of those of narrow mind always being the ones who get everywhere and are listened to. We speak up and we're ostracised for it. It's hard to lead by example when it seems that we're being ignored or talked about behind our backs.

    TarotNick had said I had a long road of hard work yet to face; that I'd get some small things going well which'd keep me going. Well, he's been right.

    I've made an appointment with my old boss because I want to talk to her about the situation at my old job. Even though it may not mean I'll be working there again, I want to know why how I was, or what I - supposedly - did was so bad that I'm not wanted there again. The situation has me stymied, and even though I understand it could be Spirit's way of telling me I'm not meant to go back there, I still can't let it rest because it's been so unfair. I don't know how to approach this "interview" at all, because I don't want to get defensive or confrontational. I simply want to know WHY. Especially when I texted two of the people I used to work with last week and have heard nothing in response. It's like I've been ex-communicated on the job and socially as well. And yet I still don't know why.

    I guess too, I'm tired of things like this situation with my old job happening, and I have simply let it go. It's similar to what happened in my family. My side of that debacle has never been aired; it was simply let go due to recent circumstances which, of course, I understand. But this one with my old work I can't seem to let go and simply be. I feel like my reputation and credibility is being put under question.

    Are we always meant to simply let things go, or quietly state our case? Why do some people feel like they can say or do what they want, which affects us negatively, yet we're the ones who are put out to pasture? Or worse frankly! And by those we thought we could trust and were well thought of by.

    I don't know. It's the apathy of people that really gets my dander up too. The attitude of "that's how it is, we can't do anything about it". Someone I was talking to about this asked me why i was wanting to take it further; what did I hope to gain by it? My response was that it was the principle of the whole thing. I was being thrown out to the dogs for no good reason. I also mentioned the apathy aspect. He shrugged his shoulders and said "that's how it is, accept it".

    No wonder the world is in a mess ... Or am I being an idiot thinking I might get somewhere by taking it further? Again, I don't know, but I'm willing to try for my own sake. These people - mere staff mind you - have prevented me from having any sort of livelihood simply because they either don't like me or feel threatened/confused by me or all of the above. God only knows what their reasons are.

    I've always been a questioner; I've rarely simply accepted things without asking why. And maybe that's not a good thing in this apathetic world we live in.

    It begs the question: are we to lie down and say nothing when we've been treated badly?



  • We sure could use some good tidings. Some encouragement for being who we are and what we've tried to accomplish in our lives. Not to mention the amount of shite we've had to deal with from those who are threatened by us or whatever it is they feel about us.

    I'm posting this up, as even though I'd typed out another response earlier, when I posted it, it isn't there, so if I'm doubling up, many apologies! This Site is really experiencing a lot of glitches, along with the excessive spamming. usually I copy what I've typed as I go along in case this happens, but forgot! I mean, it shows me as the last response on this thread, and yet my post is invisible from my end which is weird ...

    My main beef is really the apathy of people. Folk have no real voice anymore; they just accept and plod along, whingeing about the state of the world, the country they live in, the economy, blah blah. And yet, they do nothing.

    I'm bringing this up because I'm going to see my old boss next week to discuss why I am not permitted to work there again because of the viewpoint of those who have a problem with me personally. I'm aware I have to be careful how I approach this, as I don't want to come across as confrontational or accusatory. I merely want to know WHY. I think I have that right. These narrow minded people are preventing me from having any sort of livelihood here, so it appears.

    I know that often when a person is blocked from certain things, or doors keep closing, its because they need to look in a different direction. At the moment, I can't afford to look in a different direction. I'm not looking to go back there forever; it's merely a means to an end. I need money! Even though someone I was talking to suggested that I'd be best to let things be, because what would I achieve by chasing this up. I mentioned the apathy thing to him. This person also isn't aware of how much I considered the staff there as my "family". I may have left, but I didn't know that leaving would mean that I had no way of ever working there again. As far as I know I did a good job there. I also wasn't aware that my attitude prior to leaving was as bad as I was told because no-one ever said a word to me before I walked out the door.

    Of course it begs the question: why would I want to work somewhere where I may be treated badly or looked upon as a threat or whatever? Again, it comes back to the need for $$ in order to survive. I've tried other jobs here and failed. And I'm starting to wonder if coming back was a mistake.

    To say I'm tired and over being in this position yet again is an understatement. My side of things has never been aired, at least where my family were concerned. That has to be how it is though, considering recent developments. I'm okay with that. But not with my work situation.

    It's amazing how the minority is heard the loudest isn't it? I'm suspecting it was only a couple who don't want me back there, not most of them. And yet, they have overridden the boss in this instance, and that's what has made me very angry and frustrated. Since when do mere staff have a say in who works there or not?

    this is a sticky situation and one where I must tread carefully. But I can't let it simply BE. Not this time. I don't know what the result will be, but this is my life we're talking about. The story of my life - like yours too - and I don't want to be pushed out by narrow mindedness or whatever the reasons are as it's happened far too often to me.

    Why do we always have to accept what others think or how they are, and yet they ignore or persecute us for our opinion or behaviour?

    There's something very wrong with this picture, and if I can make it right in one small way, I just might feel I've achieved something.

    All I know is that I have to try. Wish me luck!



  • Okay, here we go again lol! both posts are up and visible, so I'm very sorry about TWO mini novels!!!



  • I hear ya Moon. I do.

    You brought up a good point that sometimes when you get booted out of a situation, it's because you're not meant to be there. I do tend to agree. If you drill down further, there's sometimes a thread of misaligned expectations. In several of my jobs, people expected me to be a certain way - and when I couldn't or refused to acquiese to that, they used it against me. I expected to be assessed on the sum total of my contributions and the areas where I was stepping up - and not judged for character traits or weaknesses that I either couldn't or wasn't ready to change at that point. You can say that is an interview and recruitment mismatch. Like how we get into relationships and try to change people later. But I'd also like to think that some of this is divinely engineered, so that we can learn new ways of thinking and being. Sadly, it does feel like the burden of this is mostly on our side.

    Sometimes we have to pass through certain experiences or make certain decisions, in order to unlock further insight... You kinda have to learn for yourself, before the knowledge holds meaning for you.

    I've been in tricky work situations where I had to put my foot down and push back - knowing that the end result could be futile... and that I may not receive the closure or justice I wanted or needed. The common advice in these situations would be to let it go. And I agree that is part of the lesson and one way to look at it. But we gotta pick our battles. If it's nagging at you, then you have to listen to that too.

    I can recall 2 situations where I sought redress. I failed in one and succeeded in another. I knew going in that I could get nothing out of it. But I knew I had to do it anyway. The real lesson was needing to stand up for myself. You gotta honor your own experience I think. Do what you need to do for your own peace of mind - even if that is only that you spoke up.

    Had I not risen to these occasions to stand up for myself, I may not have gotten to the place where I started to understand internal locus of control and learn to delineate the opinions of others (valid or otherwise) from the value I see in myself. And to recognize some of my triggers. Anything you pride yourself on - that others attack or devalue - can easily become a trigger. Because it feels unfair. For me, one of those triggers is the notion that I'm not doing enough. Which is ridiculous considering I tend to be in situations where I do too much and receive little appreciation. Since I'm often around people with whom I'm not on the same page, it's become important for me to depersonalize disparaging statements as much as I can.

    Part of my lesson since, has been to learn to hold the place of value within myself more consistently, and not to let the judgements of others hurt me too much. I may still get angry in the moment or be upset for days, but I think that's more the energy of the exchange, rather than the devaluing statements. And I also recognize the futility of trying to get understanding from those who aren't on the same wavelength. Not going to happen. I can't escape doing that it seems - since I'm always the odd one out - but at the very least, I try not allow their words to corrode my sense of self.

    Knowing about triggers has helped me with boundaries too. When we're triggered, you can end up doing stuff you don't want to do - or things that are bad for you - to prove that others are wrong. Or prove to yourself that you're not wrong or bad. We can get manipulated through our triggers. It's really messed up. But knowing this has helped me to reframe some of the situations I've been in and look at the tendency to attach my sense of self too much into the success or failure of a situation. Whether we do well or not - or other's pronouncement of that - actually has no bearing on who we are. But that's not always easy to see.

    An old friend is suffering a bereavement. We're not especially close but I recognize it must have taken her a lot to tell me, since she's not the emotional type. I know she could really use a friend right now. I feel sad for the situation, since I relate to her circumstances. In the past, I would have gone to her. It's a trigger to see someone I care about suffer and not help. But the difference now, is that I recognize that I can't be there for her without getting hurt myself. I don't have enough emotional bandwidth to spare. So I have to allow myself not to feel guilty for only offering my condolences. I keep thinking about it...but I know I can't intervene.

    If it makes you feel any better, I'm a questioner too! I always need to know why - even as a kid. I know there are times when there's too many parts and pieces for things to change easily or quickly - and sometimes it's not the right time and you cannot force changes. So we do need to be able to go with the flow, for our own sanity. But I've also seen too many examples where all it took was 1 person to go against the grain to create change. So I really don't subscribe to the 'it can't be changed, accept it'. Plus, sometimes, I feel that when we don't speak up to avoid conflict, we 'deprive' others of a learning opportunity. Not to say that we're doing them a favour or that they will magically come round to our point of view, as that rarely happens. But we are part of their learning process, as much as they are a part of ours. Without exposure to contrary opinions, how would we ever learn?

    I wish you the best of luck. Hope you get what you need.

    P.S Don't worry about double posting etc. It happens to me too 🙂



  • I'm sorry to hear about your friend's grief, but also admire the stance you're taking for yourself. I did similar a few years ago when a close friend's father died. I didn't go to the funeral, but thought about her all day. I could've gone, but chose not to because I knew there'd be a lot of people there, a lot of grief and in a very big way, I would've been an outsider looking in. There to support my friend, but lost in the crowd so to speak. I think it's more important to support people after a funeral really. Be there to talk to them on the phone, or visit them if it's possible. Because afterwards is when others get on with their lives and forget about the person left still grieving. Grief takes its own shape, form and course. Everyone experiences it differently, and it's a true friend who can accept the grieving process of someone, rather than expecting them to be "over it by now". I'm pretty sure my ex mother in law would still grieve the son she lost in 1986 to leukemia, but due to the expectations of others, she'd hide it. What a f*cked up world we live in!

    I don't know if I'll get anything much out of this "interview" tomorrow. My old boss will skirt around the truth if it's going to mean she'll save face or not feel insecure. It's been niggling at me for days/weeks now, and as you'd suggested, I can't let it go. I saw her in town the other day which was a message to me as it turned out. I'd asked the Higher Ups to place her in front of me if I'm meant to go talk to her, and there she was. I was going to avoid her believe it or not, but she went out of her way to say hi to me. Weird. I think the main point I will bring across is that I'd considered my workmates, and her, as family, and how hurt I've been over this. And yet, ironically, my own family hung me out to dry just like this one appears to have. Boy, I know how to pick 'em!! It begs another question: why do I keep flogging dead horses, or trying to be "accepted" by those who've thrown me out like trash?

    In saying all that, why is it when we are approaching a situation that is potentially confrontational that we worry about putting THEM in an uncomfortable position, when THEY are the ones who put US in one in the first place? Sometimes I wish I could be like those other spitfires who get upset, and go straight to the source and let them know how upset they are. Yet I tend to tread lightly - depending on the situation because I haven't always done that - and think about possible consequences, how to approach it, blah blah. I do believe I've got more diplomatic in the last 18 months or so.

    I'm tired of considering others. There, I said it. After all that yak above, that's what conclusion I've come to. I'm sick of caring about how other people feel, about upsetting them, about their damn feelings. That old saying "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" springs to mind, and yet I come back to a comment an old friend made to me once. He said "I don't want to see you turning out like some coarse, world weary loud mouth" or words to that effect. I still remember the gist of what he meant: he didn't want me to become like most others. Interesting. But I'm really over hurting and feeling ostracised by others, then worrying about how THEY feel and then, to boot, trying to win them back, or so it appears. UGH.

    I know I need to keep above this, yet still get my point across. I also know I don't want to keep suffering in silence the way I have in the past. If we truly are light bearers/workers, then why should we suffer in such down-trodden, isolated ways? How can we be expected to rise above and shine our light if we're always hiding? Or maybe I still haven't quite grasped the lesson yet ...



  • Hi Moon,

    Yep I agree - it's 'the afterwards' that matters. My friend's situation mirrors my own in some ways and it triggers me unfortunately. I will have to keep a distance for my own sake. But I look forward to a time, when both of us have healed sufficiently and are ready to talk again. I think when you lose someone important, the wound never really goes away. It just hurts less, in time, and you get better at getting on with life.

    How did your discussion go?

    You know, I might be opposite in that I've gotten less diplomatic in the last 18 months. All this caregiving stress and feeling boxed in and the dam just broke. However, I'm coming from a place of more awareness and understanding, appreciation of my own value, and greater acceptance of 'the other'. More clarity on co-dependence, less need for acceptance and less reliance on others for anything - but that's been forced out of me through sheer disappointment and understanding that people can't be who they are not. And the only one who has my back is me.

    But I do still feel hurt. The isolation, loneliness, being cast aside, and misunderstood...it takes a toll. I've lived a life with the family right there, but no one to witness or support me through struggles, pain, triumphs...and no one to share my hopes and fears with (except here at the boards - grateful for that). I've learnt to be there for myself - but I want nothing more than to have loving relationships. I want so much to be supported, to have people to turn to - instead of that only being me. I've done it my whole life, and I can say it's not enough anymore. I don't go out looking for it, but I'm starving for affection and support. Sure I get distracted by practical everyday survival - but there's a wound that I don't think can be healed by me continuing to be the strong one. I'm tired of being the strong one - yet I can't reject it, since it's part of who I am. We would be miserable if we tried to lock down the way we care for others.

    My family aside, I'm drawn to want to help others, eg interest in care professions and/or volunteering, or just with random acts of kindness in public. I know what it's like to feel deprived of nurturing and support, and it soothes my soul that I can give something small back to others. It reminds me that my struggles though overwhelming can still be set aside momentarily for someone who genuinely needs help.

    I've come back from so many rock bottom experiences, each time more aware and resilient. But it seems like a pattern where just as I'm doing well, have friendships, some financial stability, laughter and light in my life, feeling positive and attracting good things, something will happen to yank everything away.. Over and over for nearly 2 decades. I've never really looked at it as something I expect to happen. I just picked up the pieces and tried to rebuild. But I do feel it's been an unlucky and disappointing life of no progression and a lot of hurt. And sometimes I wonder what I'm doing here and if only I could just be returned to where ever I came from.

    I feel as if I'm gearing up for a life of solitude. And I even find myself casually sourcing options to manage my own mortality, like hospice care - because I'm aware I will likely be alone for most of the rest of my life. And it's not because I wouldn't welcome love into my life. Life has dealt me a bad hand, but I would not push away love if it resonated. But there just always are events/situations which pull me away from everything for years, circumstances which are so all-consuming that there's no space for me to include others.

    I too feel that in spite of bad days like today, that I need to keep coming back to Hope. Your words resonate with me - "If we truly are light bearers/workers, then why should we suffer in such down-trodden, isolated ways? How can we be expected to rise above and shine our light if we're always hiding? Or maybe I still haven't quite grasped the lesson yet ..." - I wonder the same. I don't know anymore that there is an answer. Or maybe we won't like it. We've been conditioned to feel that there should be an emotional unburdening and a material payoff. But maybe there just isn't, for some of us. Maybe for us, it's all about soul growth, and a 'larger purpose' and we do not get to have restitution in this lifetime. As negative as that sounds...



  • Yeah, why on earth does that happen? Things seem to be on the up and up and we feel like we're finally getting where we want to, then BANG, it all goes belly up. I've had the same happen as you, and it really does make me wonder why we have to keep experiencing such disappointment in life, over and over. I know what that saying says "this, too, shall pass" but why can't we get to a stage in life where we have the abundance, nurturing and stability we crave and keep it?

    It would be very disappointing indeed if we saw, as you put it, no restitution in this lifetime. I can't see how there'd be any reward in that scenario; it'd merely validate the suffering we've gone through.

    To be honest, I'm getting to the point where if things go well I get scared. And maybe that's the problem: the "expectation" that things will go wrong. We must have an inner alarm that goes off when life is good. An alarm that is set off because we expect things to go wrong.

    Unless of course, this is just the normal passage of life. Good times, bad times. Happiness, sorrow. Yes, it's all about balance. But why does there seem to be so much more of the bad times and sorrow than the other? Or again, are we missing the point or missing the boat??

    Maybe we think too much ...

    As to my discussion the other day - and thanks for asking - it didn't go well. I kept my mouth shut, stayed mute and meek and got blatantly lied to. She allowed me very little room to talk at all, and I left there with the shakes. I'd say the shakes were from being overwhelmed by her dishonesty, and that I could be so unpopular that I'm being treated like a virus no-one wants to catch.

    It really does make me question why we are who we are when we live such difficult, isolated lives. To belong is something we crave, but can't quite grasp. Or maybe we do belong, but on another plane we're not fully aware of.

    AGain, it comes back to grasping the lesson, whatever that is. What have I learned from this situation with my old job? Who my friends are here, and that there is nothing further for me in this town. I returned for the wrong reasons, and am now going to leave again, this time for good.

    It's time to move on from the wounds, both recent and old. Because most of my wounds have come from living here truth be told. Maybe by getting away from here for good, I'll be able to move on properly.

    It's time, too, that we both found others of like mind to be with. I at least have a partner who is of like mind to me, but I am aware I also need one or two women friends I can relate to as well.

    We need a "circle". Why that word just popped up I don't know, but it seems to be a very significant word. CIRCLE. We both need one, and we'll find it.



  • A scholarly group considers thesis as what exacting creators consider a work of art. Colleges and instructors test the grip of an understudy on a specific subject and assess his assurance with the undertaking of making an insightful and broadened paper. An exposition can be the most muddled and longest bit of composing for an understudy. It is in actuality an awkward errand.

    Dissertation Writing



  • nobody is interested in that...



  • Hi Moon,

    Sorry to hear the discussion didn't go well.

    It comes across, though, that it's giving you the impetus to move forward and look towards a new chapter. Sometimes what we perceive as a second chance is actually an opportunity to close the door on something that we're wavering on. You have to go through it in order to gain the insight you need to move on.

    I feel that way with my previous job. My supervisor floated the idea of a short term home based assignment. I'm mighty tempted, because I haven't found a job, and this would pay better than anything that's available. But underneath, I want nothing more to do with this job and company. And I want to close that chapter. But I dislike being put in a position where I have to choose the 'right thing' over economic strife. It's a stupid choice that I already made when I left the job, but I think that as long as I have any dealings with these people, it'll prevent me from nailing that coffin shut.

    It sounds as if you're becoming unstuck and the wheels are turning - that is a good thing. It can't have been easy to move repeatedly. Is this a recent thing, or do you relate to the idea of being a nomad, or sorts?

    That is what I've felt like - a nomad. To respond to what you said, I've never consciously expected the other shoe to drop. I felt blind-sided every time the rug got pulled under me. I felt mighty unlucky, but I just picked up the pieces. That's why I don't understand how and why I'm attracting this pattern. I always wanted continuity and stability. I merely adapted to the circumstances that came along - those necessitated that I be open to constant change and instability, especially in jobs. That was the only way to survive. So yeah, after a while, that sense of rootlessness and impermanance became part of my psyche. But that never was my original train of though. It was borne of circumstance.

    Same too with the present angst. I think 2015 was the last straw for me. I just turned a corner and made a decision to move forward. I let go of things that were important. Just as I was feeling empowered, things came crashing down. And they have gotten progressively more difficult, until recently, that I've had to quit my job for care-giving, and see my hard earned savings start to dwindle. I've never had this much of a financial footing in 20 years, and it's hard to see it slip away. The decision is correct (care-giving), but I'm always the one who suffers for it.

    I think you're right, that this is what life is about - good, bad etc. But I also see the disparity, in how some people experience the same, and go through relatively straightforward, (as compared to ours) progressive lives. There's no 1 step forward, 2 steps back thing with them. They have good supportive families, and they grow from each opportunity and experience so much of what life has to offer.

    I've grown to somewhat embrace feeling like an outsider. I know my path is different. Even though I crave to belong, on some level, I feel like a standalone entity. I don't want to be subject to the rules or groupthink that happens when you belong. I want a support network and people that I can count on, but I want to choose what I believe and value, even if that is different from what the rest think. Perhaps it is this essence of me, that puts me on the collision course of what we call life. I will never fit in - not totally. I'm not supposed to - and where it matters, I like that I don't have to. But I don't know why it is that way, or what that would accomplish. Cos it hasnt helped me. And it's not helping anyone. Maybe only in my own spiritual growth (not to discount its importance), but again, one does need material means to survive. And I want to live, not merely survive.

    I thought that the more open towards an alternative path I got, the easier it would become, eg doors would open, opportunities would come...and that there would be a helping hand to get unstuck from the things that still bind. Isn't that the way it's supposed to be, when you start going wtih the flow? Instead, it feels like I'm running the gauntlet and getting pummeled and punished, every step of the way. Like there are invisible arms pushing me into the most difficult paths possible, and then tripping me and make me suffer and doubt, as I move along. I push back and reach for happiness and stability and I just get shoved right back into the darkness.

    I feel as if I have a purpose beyond this. It's amazing that I still believe, all things considered. But I don't understand why it would necessitate me to be so battle worn and scarred, when I haven't even reached the start point of that purpose. I get that many of the experiences have shown me that I can survive with less than I think. That I am more than the material/physical manifestation of my life. Ok, maybe knowing that has made me more resilient, but it feels like a cheap shot to 'equip' me with the skills to endure a hard life. Why do I have a hard life to begin with?

    The experiences also seem to suggest that I can go it alone, without all the emotional and support structures that people usually have. Well I can to a certain extent - I've been forced to adapt - but deep down I'm sad and lonely. We are not designed to be totally alone, I don't think. These experiences have made me more understanding towards the fallibility of human-ness, but less trusting of people. And quicker to let go of them, in general. I don't know why that would be a good thing. To live like you have to be ready to leave things and people behind, is totally miserable. Have you ever seen the TV series Supernatural. It's about 2 brothers who fight to uphold good. They find purpose in what they do, but lose a lot of their friends, loved ones and comrades, along the way. And they start to take ownership of the idea that in fulfilling their calling, it necessitates giving up the "apple pie life" and all the pathways that lead to happiness. Yes they save the world and do so much good, but at the price of co-dependency, loneliness, and impermanence and seeing so much ugliness, death and violence. They have to be ready to drop everything at a hat because the weight of the world is on their shoulders.

    I don't mean to compare myself to that...but I relate to the themes so much.

    I've gained faith in the unknown, and I see the goodness that exists beyond the bad experiences. But this feels like a 'purification process' gone wrong... that's humbling those who are already on their knees and picking at scraps..

    "Maybe we think too much" ... I guess.

    Your Circle is my tribe 🙂 I long to find it.


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