Do any of you guys believe ...



  • in casting spells

    i find this an absolute evil...and that is to change someone's free will...i would like to know your thoughts on this

    thank you

    LBD



  • Your absolutely right. Maybe an E-Z money proposition.



  • ...I wouldn't say 'evil'. It depends on the spell too. Casting spells is more like requesting or 'borrowing' energy. The problem with spells is that any energy that is gained (loaned to you) you eventually have to pay back in the form of your future energy.

    Some spells are designed to bring more balance and positive karma into your life. There's rarely negative side effects to that. It can be very positive. However, most spells are of the nature that bring some sort of personal gratitude (shall we say), and that is all negative energy. The spell may work, and then your will reap the benefit of it. But it draws negative energy to you, which causes much negative results over time. In the end, you will have to pay back the energy and for any gains you receive now, you will pay for later.

    On top of the energy that you must repay, you also have changed much of your positive energy or karma into negative. Negative karma draws or invites more negative karma. Which brings even more negative results. On top of paying back the energy that you have gained from the spell, you will eventually have to dispel your negative enrgy by doing some sort of karmic purge. This generally means that you will go through an extended period of some sort of karmic limbo where you continue to live with negative results as you continue to live a lifestyle that naturally draws positive energy. You basically have to pay your penance, and purge all the negative energy within you.

    All-in-all, it's not a good idea to be casting these types of self-gratifying spells. In the end you pay more than you gain.



  • Interesting, DreamerNorth.

    There's been an issue in my life I've been wanting resolved for many years, so when I discovered a website that offered to "make your wish come true using the power of eight", I put in my wish. I didn't do the other stuff, but over the six days so far I have been wondering a couple of things. I know nothing of numerology nor spells apart from intuitions from the Tarot.

    First, if I get my wish is it going to turn out like I want?

    I can't help wondering if it might turn out like the film Bedazzled, where the poor, love-sick Brendan Fraser has sold his soul to Liz Hurley's devil. I believe that these things may be mystical, but they aren't mysterious: you know when you are working with power; if there's any doubt, you aren't. But then, if my wish comes true... what power have I actually tapped into here?

    Secondly, do I really want to invoke a power that is "out of line"?

    I believe in a cosmic order and value highly the intuitions that work "for the best" I was a Christian for about 25 years (preacher, member etc.) So I understand the value of submission and obedience: in return for the privilege of being "part of God's plan" even in the little details, we are "covered" -- protected so we don't need to worry. Since 1995, I've gone more my own way (my wife still goes to church). Exploring the tarot is part of that independence.

    Mostly, I recognise the intuitive "seeing" of divination as the "same stuff" as "being filled with the Spirit" for prayer, healing, prophecy etc. in Christian terms. However, this "wish" was for something I want. My guess is that things haven't turned out as I'd wanted (despite years of praying about it) because it is "outside God's plan" for want of better words. So where does that put me, if it works?



  • Those are very deep and complex questions. I don't think there is ever one answer that everyone can agree on. Of course there are several 'schools of thought' when it comes to invoking or using energy. My views seems to be more along the lines of how your views seem to be. There is one school of thought that says using ANY energy outside of the teachings of the Bible is the path to satan. With that philosophy, even using Tarot cards would be evil. I don't agree with that at all.

    Everything in our world is comprised of energy. Even God's love is a form of energy. But there are postive and negative energies. Good and bad karma. Everything we do on a physical plane, is also reflected on a spiritual or metaphysical plane. Therefore our actions on Earth (the physical plane) generates energy or karma on our parallel metaphysical plane. Karma is either positive or negative. Postive actions generate or invite positve karma. Negative actions invite negative karma. Positive karma on the metaphysical plane invites or creates postive actions or results on the physical plane. Negative karma creates negative actions.

    Everything we do in life, and every action/ reaction of life is a transfer or expenditure of energy. Energy is what causes action and/ or results. A spell is a request for energy to be used in the manner that the spell requests. I believe it is the nature of the spell that determines whether the result of that spell will bring positive or negative karma. Energy is not 'really' a conscious entity that exists to judge ones actions. It's not like it is conscious, and will punish people for using it.

    Praying is a request for energy too. But more so with the will of God. Casting spells is different than that, in the sense that it's sort of 'outside' of God's will. That's where the area gets really grey. You can cast positive spells whos results are to channel or focus postive energy, or to invite positive energy. That's not much different than praying, or living a good honest life full of love and sharing. That also creates and invites positive energy around you, which leads to beneficial and positive results. OR you can cast cast spells meant to harm people, or cause events that may benefit you at the expense of others, or that intrude on the free will of others.You will benefit from these types of spells, as if the request is granted (by doing the spell properly) then the energy will be given to you to be used for your desired purpose. But that will be negative energy or karma. It's that energy that you will have to pay for (or be punished for if you wish) at a later date. There is a balance, or natural order of things that will eventually have to be restored. In these situations, how that balance is restored will be by taking away your positive karma in order to restore that balance. That will leave you with a bunch of negative karma that will cause many negative results in your life.

    I don't think wishing for things or events that you want in your life will cause negative karma though. We are supposed to use our natural energy or karma in this manner. Either to give it away to others, or to use it for ourselves. But every action has a result or consequence that either creates good karma, or bad karma.

    That's how I see things anyway. I'm not sure if this helps or makes sense to you or not.



  • I think I get what you are saying, though the idea of "balancing karma" confuses me somewhat. I would expect "balance" to imply positive invites negative or vice versa. But you seem to be saying that "more begets more".

    The other thing that occurs to me is that I've never met anyone in 50+ years who didn't do things because they were "good". The only difference between actions seems to be the horizon within which they function. Even a murderer kills someone because they think it will improve their lot in some way (even if it only might make them feel better). Nelson Mandela was willing to go to prison because the "horizon" he saw was somewhat wider. "Doing the will of God" is simply functioning in the widest possible horizon, beyond our human perspective's ability to see. Does karma have "fields of relating" too?



  • Those are pretty deep and interesting questions. I don't know if these questions have just one true answer, but I can speculate on them with my own thoughts.

    I hear what you are saying about "balance". It's the Yin and the Yang theory. That you cannot have one without the other and that there needs to be an equal balance of both. Over time too much of one will 'invite' the other such that an equal balance will eventually be restored.

    There is positive and negative karma. I would imaging that they are also balanced in the sense that there is some sort of natural order that is maintained, and if that balance is upset then it will eventually be restored. Using that logic, you would think that good karma would eventually 'invite' bad karma to restore the balance. From what I understand (or believe) is that this is not really how it works. I really haven't given this topic much thought before though. I would have to research or think about this in more detail to decide what my view is on it.

    I'll try to describe how I interpret karma, and how it is balanced. Everything is made up of energy that is shared by and interconnects everything and everyone. The actions or events of our lives are all caused by a 'change' or 'expenditure' of this energy. Likewise our own actions and events cause shifts in this energy. So everything that happens to us is caused by a shift or expenditure of energy, likewise everything we do causes shifts or expenditures of energy. I suppose it's the fact that we have 'free will' that enables us to manipulate the energy around us. Karma is this energy, but there's more to karma than just being energy. Karma itself is like the 'flavor' of this energy. It's like the expenditure of the energy creates the karma, and the way in which the energy is used determines whether it will be good karma or bad karma that results.

    Karma that you've created eventually comes back to you. Good karma is positive energy that creates or invites positive results or events. Bad karma is negative energy that invites or causes negative events.

    If we use or expend our energy in a negative way, such that a gain is realized at the expense of someone or something, or that a resultant harm or expense has occurred to someone or something due to your actions, or that your purposes were 'dark' such as an action done from spite, or jealousy, or ill-will then what you do is expend or use energy and though you have generally gained in some way from it, you have introduced negative energy or bad karma into 'the pool' so the speak. In order to restore 'balance' then you will eventually have to repay or give back an equal amount of energy that you used for this act, and this negative energy or bad karma that you created will have to go back to you. This bad karma will then draw or create negative or bad events in your life.

    Likewise if you expend energy in a positive way such that a benefit is gained with no harm or negative events being caused to happen, then good karma will be a result of this use of energy. When balance is restored then, the good karma will come back to you and invite positive things to occur in your life.

    Energy can act upon you in various forms and for varying reasons which could cause good or bad things to occur in your life. But it's the energy that you expend that creates karma, and it's this karma (whether that be good or bad) is what will eventually return to you. So even if bad things have happened to you in your life, if your own actions have created good karma then eventually that will be returned to you, and the events in your life will reflect that. Likewise, if your actions have created bad karma then that will return to you as well, and consenquently your life will start to reflect that.

    In summary, what you put into life is what you will eventually receive back from it.

    Of course there is a 'grey' area when judging wheter a person's actions have created good or bad karma. That could vary as much as different persons opinions vary.

    This also cannot account for random damaging acts or events that can happen to people and cause perminent or fatal damage whether they 'deserved' it or not. Perhaps this is just God's will. Or perhaps it really was random. I cannot explain that.



  • Uh, what?

    I cast spells all the time, and I am rather appalled that someone would seriously consider me "evil". I am a Theistic Satanist, and I have no issue with saying so, and most people assume it's all about eating babies and curses and all that... but it has nothing to do with it, it's about empowering yourself and taking control of your own life, and I am one of the "fluffiest" people I know. One of my spirit animals is a RABBIT for goodness sake! The concept of "good" and "evil" just makes me want to beat my head on a wall sometimes.

    People assume way, way too much and then read up on these metaphysical books and accept everything as Absolute Truth... and some of those things are just abysmal. All magic is, is about empowerment. It's not good or evil, because those things are abstracts-- WE create the meanings.

    Magic and spellworking is a natural part of my religion. It has nothing to do with changing someone's free will, unless you actually focus on that sort of thing... and usually, people don't unless it's in self-defense (for example, a spouse is abusing them and they just want to be able to get away) or in order to catch someone who has done wrong (I've worked spells when watching America's Most Wanted in hopes that maybe they catch some of the more heinous criminals). Again, it's about empowerment, and about developing psychic powers, healing, wealth, and all that... and that is not, in ANY way, "evil".

    I do not for one moment believe that casting spells to help you get what you want is "negative". Maybe if you have a "my way or the high way" attitude as you go about it, but what if you're someone who's going to be homeless if you don't get money, so you cast a spell to bring you money? That's self-gratifying. What if you find out you have cancer, and work spells to heal yourself? That's self-gratifying. The point being, this attitude of "Oh, you have to be completely selfless!" is just absolutely mind-boggling. Yes, it's good to help others, but isn't there some saying involving people who can't help themselves...? Oh, right, they don't GET help. You have to be willing to go for things you want on your own, without focusing on others 24/7 and expecting "good karma" to help you out in the end. It's very poor planning.

    Sorry, but people who have this obsession with karma just... argh. Yeah. I can't stand it. It ends up hurting more people than it helps. Where's the sense in that?

    Essentially... if you think it's bad, don't do it. If you think it's good, then have fun. Try and be the best person you can be, try not to cause needless harm and let the chips fall where they may.

    My ten cents.



  • What involves casting a spell. Do you assume certain powers. Also, a question--in a couple situations I have noticed some people acting negative. Trying to promote their will on other people. Anyway, I have noticed things happening to them. Physical harm (something fell on one) and heart attack for the other. No spells were cast. So, is someones negative attitude actually negative karma or a reverse negative spell to them. Am I confused.



  • Honestly? My feelings are that if you don't know much about the craft then educate yourself before you delve into it. Me personally, I have casted only spells (or attempted to) to help a sick family member or disspell negativity. (Also I must confess that I am a Reiki Master Teacher so this may have more to do with the healing than casting any spells). Nonetheless, I feel if the intention is to help and not hurt, then it is not evil. I intend to try growing some lavender for happiness. Please embrace the positive energy- always. Love and be loved!

    Blessings....



  • Hi, I'm just curious. Just wanted some input. Not interested in practicing.



  • Spell casting or practicing Wicca is something I know very little about so I tend to move away from that until the time is right for me to learn more about it. I'm still growing and I don't feel that's the area I should be moving toward. I'd rather hone my clairvoyant skills.



  • I found it interesting that one of the replies comes from a theistic satanist (sp?). I am actually curious to understand what the ideas of that specific spiritualism is all about. To me, the term "Satanist" already inspires ideas of "evil" or negativity. I find it interesting hearing someone who is one talk about things in a positive light, such as be the best you can be, etc.

    what is the importance of using the term "satan" in your divination? If that casts such a dark light immediately in most people's minds, being that it stems back to the name given to the darker side of religion? I would love to hear input since you seemed to have such a great outlook and positive message.

    I don't think of spell casting as evil, only a way to express intent and channel energy to help guide that intent.

    Looking forward to hearing more!



  • Awesome thread! I just learned a lot of valuable information about two topics (witchery & satanism) that, prior to reading your posts, I knew absolutely NOTHING about. Thanks for the insight and the positivitity of your posts (well except for the starter thread. I just personally don't think it's right, nor is my place, to judge someone for participating in something that they believe in, even if it goes against what I believe in, especially if I'm completely ignorant of the subject.) Let's try not to attack each other's beliefs and practices because as the Good Book says, "He without sin cast the first stone." (And I know that ain't me!)



  • Oh and keep the insight coming, I'd love to hear more about everyone's beliefs!



  • i totatally agree 1st make urself happy then move to helping others how can a sad unhapy person help anyone karma will follow. wickedw



  • firefalcon i was addressing u gone r the days when we can sit back and wait for karma to help us in a way spells just speed the process wickedw



  • @ Dalia: You don't have to believe in any higher power to work with magic and cast spells. I know a few people who don't believe in a deity who are quite happy to work with the occult and such... They believe in simply their own power. As for negative things happening to people as a result of karma or whatnot... Eh. To me, it's cause and effect-- people who actively go out and will-nilly harm people tend to be unhealthy, careless people, so it doesn't surprise me when bad things happen to them.

    @SarahStarfish: That tends to be a good rule to live by, but what if a family member is being threatened or something? Say you do a protection spell, and the harm-er gets hit by a bus or something. Oops. Does that make you evil? And also, in order to heal, you do have to have some skill in knowing how to harm... Germs and all the stuff that makes us sick is technically alive, too. 🙂 Also, you can work on clairvoyance AND practice Wicca... just saying. 😜

    @Urbancowgirl: A lot of people associate Satanism with negativity. And some Satanists, especially the "Modern"/Atheistic branch do tend to be rather grumpy, jaded people. But in my experience, from the Theistic side, it's been mostly positive... Although part of the belief system IS realizing that one cannot be light and fluff all the time, and that you're not going to be skinned alive for having the occasional negative thought.

    Satan is seen as an entity older that Christianity. 🙂 Yes, he is "darker", but it's a great example in learning that "dark" does not necessarily mean "evil". According to the tradition I follow, he is simply a creator god and a god of wisdom, freedom and power that has been turned into the villain of another religion's story. It is interesting to note that the word "demon" and "devil" were originally words that referred to guardian spirits. Protectors, not evil soul-sucking boogymen. 'The gods of yesterday become the demons of tomorrow' or whatever they say.

    But enough of that, lest I sound bitter. 😉

    Being a Satanist has been a wonderful experience-- I've overcome (or at least, mostly overcome!) my deep-seated fear of ghosts and entities of that nature which were holding me back. I've been brought back from the verge of suicide. I've become a stronger, wiser person. Why? Because my tradition places a great emphasis on personal empowerment, accepting one's faults, balance and none of this "comes back to you three times good or bad" stuff. Very much common sense, practical teachings with a bit of mythology and spiritual "woo woo" tossed in to keep things interesting. 🙂

    Of course, that could be found with many spiritual paths. But whereas most religions or spiritualities focus on /divinity/ and might toss in those ideals as /they/ relate to said divinity, Satanism focuses on those /ideals/ and might toss in divinity as a way to further /reach/ said ideals. Most spiritualities are deity-centered, Satanism is more self-centered. The thing people need to realize is that self-centering is not ALWAYS a bad thing. 🙂 It needs to be tempered... and that's where Satan and the various other god/desses within the tradition come in at. Rather than focus on some being and ask them to help us, we help ourselves and ask them to work /with/ us. If that makes sense.

    If you want to learn more about it, I suggest Google-ing "Diane Vera". She has a lot of information on the subject, far more than I can go over in a short period of time. It's a complicated thing, as all spiritual paths tend to be, and there are a lot of little details that are so very important.

    As for divination, I don't bring my religious beliefs into my tarot readings any more than necessary. I try to keep all my readings tailored to fit all religious paths. I've read for Christians, Jews, Atheists... 🙂 It's about helping people within their own scope of reality, without trying to impose mine on theirs. But when I read and get the "devil" card, if that's what you mean, then I tend to see it as a neutral card.. learning to deal with one's Shadow Side, maybe learn to lighten up and/or figure out what chains other people might be trying to put upon me. But that's why I prefer the Celtic Dragon Tarot... The "devil" card is actually called "Chains" and fits my views much better.

    @Wickedw: Eh, I never really believed in some divinity-inspired karma anyhow. 🙂 Cause and effect, my friends, cause and effect. A person who works hard, tries to be a good person and do good deeds will invariably have a more positive time than people who sit around being sour, mean-spirited little things.

    Peace. :3



  • Hi FireFalcon, Yes, I agree about the unhealthy and reckless. Could I get you to do a reading for me concerning Virgil. It would be a general reading, general outlook. I'm curious about what you might pick-up and if it would coincide w/my thoughts, or add some insight. I would appreciate it if you would. Virgil is a handicapped friend of mine that is a very gifted artist.



  • Thanks for all the posts they are very informative.. I do rituals for protection only, i do itc work, and work with the paranormal, i can do phsycometry and am an empath, i was brought up Catholic wow what a guilt trip it would be to do a protection spell and let a catholic like some of my friends are know about it.. he would have a caniption lol.. myself now i concider a spiritualist.. i have learned from many people and studied many things.. i don't believe in one denomination i believe all religions are one.. we all wish to do no harm to anyone or we want respect from eachother, its harm ye none, do as ye will, anything you do bad will come back 3 fold thats what i believe, its in the intent when you do a spell.. no black or white in magick, thnx again, merc