Help with reading -What Relationship Would Be Like
he already is doing what ever he wants with you and your co worker, he is taking for granted that it is ok.... when she returns to work he will act no differently with her or anyone elese whom he chooses just because of what happened.... especially scince you iniciated it and he resisted... not to be harsh but he is not your boyfriend yet and both of you are still free to date.... he will, and it will hurt you especially if you keep being scared of him dateing other chicks... that's the stage you two are in weather you date other guys or sit waiting to get him alone again he is dating (and haveing s.e.x.) with other girls including A, unaware or unconcerend of how it may make you feel.... sometimes you can show em better then you can tell em... you may not be ready to take my advice yet... but when A comes back parking in his spot being in his face and doing the rest of the shite she does, and he doesn't even acknowledge last weekend you might see what I mean. Weather you know it or not he CAN adn DOES easily show up to work and leave with as many girls as he wants and you and A tolerate it, that is bulll sht!...are you at the point where you can say I don't want you to talk to A in my presence, or is it cool for the gander but terrifying for the goose?...You sending him a message, that you are a victim (his victim) he is probably feeling soo guilty right now (like he took advatage of you that night) like you aren't a willing participant, but a woman in his hand the fact that he's your boss adds a double heaping of guilt and responsibity.... playing that role will not make him pursue you, quite the oposite infact. trust me if anything knowing that you are not sitting around feeling sorry for yourself or angry or hurt by him will make him more aware of you and how he feels for you, he will deffinately want to talk to you about what's up with the guy, and maybe ready to establish bounderies of what is appropriate including coming and going to work with other people. I don't know, in one way I understand how you feel ( you are in love with this man), but I don't understand why you are letting him have his cake and eat it too, it's not fair to you or A. It's like both of you will give and do anything to be with him but won't ask anything of him to be with you, becauese you are afraid he will disapear, but he is not really there anyway. I know how he is acting towards you (like nothing happend!) and you are acting like it's ok... but is really ok? Something did happen and you really care about him but how are you teaching him to treat you? Ask yourself that.... Don't be just another girl he is hurting... be someone who makes him feel a little pain too, that's what seperated me from the others at my job, he use to obsess and worry if I was out having s.e.x with other men, he didn't want that, he didn't like it he wanted and needed to know that I was all his, he couldn't take that for granted unless he was willing to accomodate my needs and make sure that I was comfortable and secure with him. I would make him uncomfortable he'd want to talk about what happend and I would use that as a way of bringing up the things that he did that I did not like, we would then come to an agreement somewhere in the middle... yes he didn't know he was the only one I really wanted unless we were being intimate and/or he was being good. If I didn't feel secure then damit he didn't feel secure.... of course everyone is different and has their own way of doing things. I know on this forum alot of people advise you to jut turn the other cheek, but cancers often end up with the ones who will not. and that's the truth.
This is all very, very true...and trust me, i've thought of it. And I dont like it. But....I dont know, isnt his whole fear that I'm gonna end up leaving him and whatever? So if I'm flirting and out with all these guys, then isnt that what whats going to show him? Like I see him get SO JEALOUS if I make some flirty comment to some guys at work, I can't imagine if I go out on a date with someone....not that I dont love the attention, im just terrified of what it does to him inside. Like, when he talks to A I hate it and I get angry and resentful. I dont get all "Ooo I should secure him now, lookit that." No...I like, hate him and dont wanna talk to him. I dont want him to feel that way towards me.
Hey, MariaRia. It might seem strange to say, but I've followed this thread for a while because it still pops up on my list of topics that I've participated in. I can't remember how long ago it was that I commented, but I was rather new to the forum at the time and looking for some Cancer advice through a reading. Anyway, since the thread is mainly b/t you and Jennever (also sexygem), I've tried not to interject again and instead use it for some insight into the Cancer “dilemma” from time to time. However, I want to give some advice or at least make a comment to see if it’ll give you a new perspective of looking at your situation.
So this isn’t to lecture at all because I’ve SO been there with my Cancer and I’m still dealing with the situation somewhat. Also, my moon is in Aries, so maybe we are alike in some ways, as well! But just like your Cancer guy, mine had me super caught up in a way that I’d never been before and I know that I loved him (maybe I still do). I also truly believe he loves me too. But to make a long story short, due to a few different things the situation between us hasn’t worked itself out, no matter how much energy and time I put into it. You seem like good people, so I’m sure you’ve done the same. However, I notice that you're afraid of doing anything to "set him off", in a sense, and I just have to let you know how dangerous it is to fall into that territory in a relationship with any person. By now, with all you’ve learned about Cancers on this forum and through research you know how sensitive they are. And with your guy (and mine) it's like you have to walk on eggshells because you don't want to upset him or backtrack on any of the progress you've made. I get that, believe me! But like Sexygem said, that really is no way to live and I don’t think it’s a healthy foundation for a relationship. Right now he has ALL of the power and don’t think for a minute that he doesn’t know this.
This forum is helpful in so many ways, but at the same time everyone says not to do this and not to do that, that it’s like, well what the heck can I do/say then? But there comes a point, I believe, when you're pretty much permitting someone’s behavior, like I said above about giving him the power. Also, I always try to keep in mind that at the end of the day we're talking about a MAN, whether he is a Cancer, Leo, or Pisces. From my experience--and unfortunately I've had a several bad ones--men will string you along, especially if they know you're into them. He doesn’t have to commit to you right now and he isn’t because, if I’m correct, he’s already told you that he doesn’t think it’s a good idea (whatever his reasons). Yet, he saw nothing wrong with taking you back to his place and allowing you to cuddle with him intimately. Yes, he resisted in some ways but if he respected you as much as he should I don’t think he would’ve done that to you. I don’t doubt that he cares about you and sincerely likes spending time with you. But unfortunately, as I’ve learned, that doesn’t guarantee respect from a man. You haven’t slept with him (thank the Lord! Haha), but he knows that if ever he wants a cuddle buddy he can just get you home for that purpose. If he wants sex, he has A...it’s like why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? He has the best of both worlds with absolutely NO COMMITMENT and worst of all, there is no guarantee yet that he ever will.
I know you may be thinking that I’m some random chick giving you advice, but I wouldn’t have taken the time to write this all out if I really didn’t empathize with your situation and have some experience to back it up (sadly!). I made myself completely available to my Cancer and he was so sweet and affectionate with me that I thought he for sure would never string me along or hurt me. Most importantly, I was always upfront with how I felt about him. I gave him plenty of opportunities to walk if he didn’t love me or see me as relationship material and he NEVER did. Yet, at the same time, he never committed to me and danced around it like your Cancer is doing. And I truly believe in my heart that it’s because he doesn’t fully respect me. If you’re not on the same page in a relationship, it will always be an uphill battle. As much as he likes/loves/cares/adores/whatevers me, he didn’t respect me enough to be real with me and stop stringing me along. Instead, he’d do what your Cancer guy does...flirt, cuddle, etc. and get away with it all because I made myself available for him to do that without a commitment. And all that’s happening with time is that you’re falling deeper in love and not allowing yourself the appropriate emotional distance from the situation. Right now you’re doing ALL of the work and because you’re afraid of upsetting him or stepping on his toes, he’s getting away with most of whatever he likes. Like I said before, he knows this and is taking full of advantage of it. It’s time for him to do the work at this point, after all doesn’t he already know where you stand?
I guess all I’m saying is that I think you need to start thinking about yourself and only yourself in terms of this relationship at this point. Really, how much of a headache is it to constantly do readings and look for advice and rehash all of the same bullsh*t that continues to happen. You can’t control his reactions, but you can control how you react to them. Me, myself, I noticed a cycle...I put myself out there, I got hurt, I put myself out there, I got hurt. All the little details started not to matter at some point. The fact is, my Cancer knew that I wanted to be with me and he was able to use my dedication and willingness to be with him for his advantage without the commitment. I see the same thing happening with you and yours and it’s so unfair to you. I’m not suggesting that you flirt and act over the top with other guys in front of him to incite jealousy, but please open yourself up to being interested in other men. Right now I think you love him so much and the possibility of you ending up together is so strong, that you’re unintentionally shutting yourself off from other guys that are presently worth more of your time. There is absolutely a chance that you two will end up together (hopefully, for all of the work you’ve put into this) but unless you start to switch the game up a little bit, the results will be the same. Has he done anything at all that shows he’s being mature/keeping it real about his relationship with you and other women? What strides has he made to show you that he respects and cares for you enough not to put you through games? Go ahead and be his friend and be civil and flirt but do it to YOUR benefit and to satisfy yourself...until he starts showing you that he’s serious about respecting you, then let him be the trophy...you only pick him up and dust him off and show him off whenever YOU want to do so. He needs to work for all of the perks he’s getting from you (cuddle buddy, friendship, ego boosts) and I really don’t see it anywhere in your posts about him.
I’ll end with this: you are a smart, caring person who deserves the same in a man. At the same time, I realize you’re human like the rest of us and only you can do what you feel is best for yourself. I don’t expect you to make any drastic changes in how you act towards him because you love him and want to be with him, and I so get that. Everything takes time. Whatever happens though, I really believe at some point you will grow tired of his foolishness and stop allowing him to play you. Don’t allow yourself to settle for only what he’s willing to give when it’s clear you want so much more. The thought of wasting years pining over a man really sickens me at this point! If you are meant to be with him it WILL happen, make no mistake. Until then, spare yourself the headache because no matter what you do or say, he is the only one that can decide what he’s going to do. Best of luck and sorry this is so long, but when I say I’ve been through it, I really mean I’ve been through it! Lol.
Wow, IF, thanks so much for that!
Your absolutely right, of course. After recent events, I'm going to do exactly as you say. And as sexygem has said I really am sick of putting in so much work, and I finally got him to come out and say "i need space" instead of just saying "this will never go anywhere" as he liked to throw at me in the past from time to time. So, if he needs space, I'll give it to him alright....which is funny, because I was just about to cut my hours at work hard core, so I'll be seeing him significantly less, which will help me focus on other things in life. But its hard to do that when I see him like...4 or 5 times a week.
I hope he respects me as a person, though sometimes he doesnt seem to respect how I feel, which I guess is the same thing. I chewed him out on it once, but he doesnt seem to like being told he's wrong. Well....too bad, LOL.
Although, the cuddle buddy thing, we dont do that often AT ALL so don't worry. Aside from last weekend, the last time I was over at his house was like....5 months ago. Because he gave me the 'space' spiel last time. So I was like "Fine." and we didnt really hang out and I didnt contact him for that entire period of time. So, trust me, when he throws that shit at me I do exactly as he says. And now that he's said it again, buckle up and here we go.
Anyway, thank you for the advice and i'll be sure it take it
Hey MariRia! I'm happy that you took my post the right way, it was about a mile long so I can see how it may have come across as a bit much when we haven't interacted a lot on the forum. Judging from your earliest posts until I now I can see that you've grown so much from this situation and I think that's great.
By no means am I claiming to be an expert....everything I've learned has been from trial and error! Ugh...but I feel as though I've learned a lot. I guess with my Cancer I've just grown tired of second-guessing everything I do and say when it gets thrown off by his moodiness and other women (yeah...I don't have an A to deal with, but I do have a crazy ex AND they have kids together lol). He knows I love him, I've never said it directly to him but he'd have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to know this. He knows I would do anything for him and don't care about his imperfections because I have mine as well. I've made sure that I've been perfectly clear on all of this...so why am I not cuddled up in bed with him right now? Two reasons: a) I'm seeing someone else (take that, Cancer!) and b) HE needs to work out whatever fears or stubborness he has before I let it get as far as it did ever again. I literally cannot do anything else to make this relationship go forward except keep myself alive and remain sane. The ball is in his court. If he's lucky (or smart!) he'll catch me before things go further/get even better with my current guy or before I grow to hate him (lol). Truthfully, I still have feelings for him but I've really had to learn to love him at a distance.
Like I was saying, it's okay to be cool with your Cancer because I'm sure he's a great guy...there has to be some reason why you've fallen so hard for him, after all! But I just wanted to give perspective in anyway I can to remind you of your worth. A relationship has to be 200%...everyone giving 100% on his or her end. It's just not right to emotionally drain yourself because you're trying every tactic you can think of and he still is moving at his own pace. I think this is just typical man behavior lol. You've done nothing wrong and any "mistakes" you may have made, you've already made up for them by approaching him and being clear and honest with him about your feelings and intentions. You're still his friend and are open to the possibility of a relationship. He can't ask for much more than that. At least he shouldn't be until he starts to give you what you need!
And wow, I can only imagine how hard it is having to see him 4 or 5 times a week. I'd probably go nuts too if I still saw mine that frequently! And I'm like you too...seing him with another girl would most likely make my blood boil lol. I'm not into sharing! Haha...But yeah, just do the best you can with focusing on yourself, you know? You may slip here and there, but it's all about growing from this situation and not letting it hold you back. I know you can does this!
I read somewhere love is pain, the reason you know how much you care for him is because of how much it hurts to see him with someone eles how much it hurts when he pushes you away. how bad you feel when he rejects you .... not because of how sweet and wonderful he always is.... if he can dish it out .... he can take it... When did he say he needed more space???? This is deffinately the time to show him he can have all the space he needs but that you may NOT be there when he wants you around.... by the way when is A coming back to town, is that why he needs space?
by the way well said IF...
Maria he knows how you feel and he will know it is his fault if you move on... stop being terrified of hurting him, he is not terrified of hurting you. At this point he has not a care or concern in the world about loosing you... and as long as he feels that way there is no motivation to fix what (in his mind) is not broken
Thats very true. Trust me, I tend to give him all the space he needs. And A's been back all week. She was only gone for like...5 days. He said this like...a day or two ago. Its because he said something stupid to me and I was like "omg...you know what, he cant keep saying these things to me because they hurt me." So I told him that. I told him if he wants to say something to me, he just needs to say THAT THING. He doesnt need to code things or blurt shit out just because he's getting scared and he wants space. Because I know thats why he said that. So he was like "Okay....I need space. I need us to be friends and I need space." So I was like "Okay. I wasnt going to pressure you." So...fine. Dont worry, I intend to give him PLENTY of space. And he'll have no one to blame but himself, as you said.
talk about a roller coaster ride. I don't know what to say.... Please go out with the other guy, and if he is not pushing A away, but acting like he's glad his "friend" is back. I strongly encourage you to make the time to be seen with boo #2, yes it's mean and will bruise his ego and maybe hurt his feelings, but it will make him respect you and you will feel soooo empowered. Even if you don't have him pick you up go out and mingle and have fun. It will make the coming weeks easier.... ignore J to an extreme, I gaurantee he will (eventually) come crawling back to you... unless he and A thing is a little deeper then you know, in which case, he will feel badly about how he treated her by hooking up with you
How has he treated A since she returned? Is he being overly nice to her or pushing her away? Has he been treating you like you forced yourself on him? Like it was you who put him in a akward position?
I want to tell you my cancer use to try to do that with me, early on... After he did that to me a few times I almost felt like a bully, so I stopped inciatinting for a whole year... he would invite me over and we'd talk for hours and hours untill HE made a move on ME... after a few times I realized that it had always been mutual. He would try to wait me out so that he could say it wasn't him who wanted se.x just to hang out, but then when I stopped iniciating he was like you don't want me anymore I always have to seduce you... I tell you this so that you can be reassured that J knew when he invited you over for more wine that something intimate was going to jump off, it was what he wanted.... he just allowed you to iniciate and played hard to get, so that he would be able to defend himself if after you felt led on, used or wanted more out of the relationship, but don't be fooled he wanted you that night, just like you wanted him, Don't feel badly you did exactly what he wanted you to do, just as he planed . He is NO victim of your lust. It was mutual. KNOW that maria feel that and believe it.
Wow, I've missed a lot here, lol. Sorry Maria, life gets in the way at this time, my job situation is up in the air... so priorities ya know, I haven't been around much. I was curious about J so I pulled a card asking what's he thinking about Maria, and I got the King of Swords. Shadow is the High Priestess. This confused me so I asked, "what can Maria expect with J for a while here". I got the Ace of Pents, but don't get too excited here, the shadow is the King of Wands. Maybe it's all in line with you dealing with a new guy. I'm tired right now so my ability to interpret anything is kind of shot.
I had an interesting weekend. Scorp came to town for the first time. That went only fairly well. By the end of the weekend we were having "a talk". He's just in such a different place than me you see. His kids grown and gone, he's been divorced for eight years, his life is very secure and routine, he's free and sooo seriously looking for a partner for life. Me - I have years to go with my kids, only divorced for two years, my job is uncertain, my life is chaotic and the way things have gone, I'm not sure I'm anywhere near settling down with one man for the rest of my life. Sooo, my sense is that Scorp is feeling ready to move on, or at least very clearly leave himself (and me) free to explore other opportunities. So much for a Fairytale ending eh? Lol.
I'm not heart-broken. We actually got into a couple of little tiffs over the weekend that I thought were so ridiculous. I don't have the luxury of getting worked up over every little thing and splitting hairs all the time about, "now why would you say that", or "why did you say it that way". Ultimately I informed Scorp that he thinks too dang much (imagine ME saying that, LOL!) but really, he analyzes everything and kept thinking he knew what I thought without even bothering to ask me. Hence the little tiffs would start. Sigh...so who knows. I love him as a friend right now, he's been a God-send for keeping my head straight on R, but I am more and more sure that the reality of my situation doesn't suit him.
At this point I haven't seen R since January. Oh no, he's hasn't gone away. I rarely talk to him, or send him random e-mails like I used to though. This inspired him to call me at one point, he couldn't figure out what was going on. Maria, this cracked me up, apparently my absence actually got him obsessing a bit over what was going on with me. Poor baby. Anyway, as you can tell by my tone here, I'm feeling ambivilant about him as well. I had quite a surprise on Saturday though. As I say, T was here and I just happened to notice that my phone was buzzing. Good thing I didn't have the ringer on. It was R. The message he left nearly took my breath away it was like poetry. He was thinking about me, and my job situation and hoped that I was doing alright. Wanted me to know how much he cared about me, and that "when you hurt, I hurt". All of this in that deep voice of his that just makes me melt. But - as I say - T was here for the weekend so I turned my phone off and still haven't responded to R.
Just tired of being in the middle with the guy who wants it all right now and the guy who wants it all in ten years. I want the guy who can meet me in the middle and neither one of them is that right now. T has potential I guess, but I told him that I can't seem to give him what he wants right now and that he was making me feel like we are an "all or nothing" proposition. Told him it was unrealistic to think that after two months and only spending two weekends together that I could possibly feel in a mindset to commit to forever. Ultimately I think he realized how wrong he was to put a big rush on "us" and that perhaps, the way he throws himself so completely into a relationships could be the very reason that his relationships have gone stale time and time again since he left his marriage. Too caught up in that intial excitement and not letting himself calm down and be realistic about what it takes to keep a relationship going for the long haul. When the "new" wears off, I think he feels bored.
Anyway, that's where I'm at right now. Very purposefully trying to keep myself out of any extreme emotional situations and unsure if I care about either one of these men as anything more than friends at this point. I pulled a card for each of them. What does R want with me at this time? Three of Cups. (I told you this card says "affair" to me - a party of three, R wants to keep the party going.) Same question for T - The Hierophant. Uh huh, he'd like to settle down into the traditional status-quo relationship. How fitting in all directions.
I'll check the thread here from time to time see how you're doing. You are getting some really awesome advice here lately. I don't think I could add a thing. You've been given a lot of good things to think about.
Sexygem - your totally right. I'm not going to tell him flat out im going on a date, or have my date pick me up. its too like...obviously trying to make him jealous. Im just going to tell people who cant keep their mouth shut, and the news will travel to him in less then a minute. Restaurants are VERY gossipy places. Its horrible, actually, but I guess sometimes it can suit your purpose. Thanks so much for all your advice. And your right, he being a crab, has a very sideways way of getting what he wants. If he wants to be with me but doesnt want to go straight at it, he just curves his way around until he's spun me on my axis and im the one initiating everything. Time to bust out my Queen o Wands personality. Its been dormant...
Jenever - LOL yeah you sure sound pretty bored with things. I'm kinda glad you finally have that attitude with R....he's so back and forth, it can get pretty stale. I'm not surprised he called you...but im kinda proud you havent been talking to him. If he really wants to keep you around, he can fight for you. But I dont see how he can if he's still married...it's always going to be hide and seek. It doesnt seem healthy for you.
The way you talk about T, you dont seem interested. I think your Cancer self is being put off by his forwardness. Maybe you feel pressured? Give him some time after you told him to back off and see what happens. If nothing else, he'll make you feel much better about yourself after R.
I am glad you are going out, but I say the way to get the best reaction from him, is for him to see it with his own eyes and feel his own blood boil, so instead of gossip he can hear the voice in his head telling him he may have pushed you too far this time.... jelousy is a very powerful emotion, not one to be played with... unless you playin for keeps and that's what I do lol.... who cares about being obvious, who cares about anything but letting him know that he is NOT the last coca cola in the deasert.... any way I am a mind game playing gemini and that is just a jedi mind trick that happens every time weather a guy is in love with you or not he will fight for you and want to talk if you do it my way.... if it's just a rumor.... he won't believe it or think it's meaningless...
anyway as I said that's me and my gemini psyco warfare.... be you as long as you stay strong and true to yourself.... have fun and really give boo #2 a chance to show you a good time, even if its just for a little while.
o yeah and don't tell him you're going on a date, he'll likely encourage you and hurt your feelings more.... never tell a person what you're going to do... just do it
He wasnt working today X.X So universe kicked me in the vagina that time, LOL. But the date went well. He was pretty fun...although I felt pressured at the end to piss him, so I didnt. LOL when he was paying for the bill, I tried to pitch in and he was like no, "you can repay me with a kiss later." which i didnt like ,so I was all "Psssh, who says im a first date kisser??" and then at the end of the date he got one on the cheek, just for being cocky. And he invited me over....and I do not go over to dudes houses who i dont know. Other then that it was fine...but i guess its gonna have to be gossip that J overhears because he wasnt working today to see it. Oh well...
good for you girl.... knowing he missed seeing it, and that you "didn't care about how he'd feel" should do well enough. Glad you enjoyed your first day.... the nerve of him to think he'd lucky the first night you are not that "type" of girl.... good fun anyway, are you going to see boo#2 again? Never feel presured, just that he is attracted and interested in tasting some of queen bee's honey, but not every drone is able.. lol. you go girl. J will be trying to feel you out when he hears some dude was up there to pick you up, ya know, the sad little please look at me energy thing they do, to see if you give a damm, just act like you don't notice, say hi and stay cheery maybe next time (if he doesn't shape up) you can see the look of wtf!!! then he will want to talk to you about who is this guy and maybe even express feelings of jelousy.
I'm still laughing on the inside... I gaurantee you will get a reaction, tho not as strong as seeing it but it being confirmable and he will think if he came up to the job, he must be into her. It brings me some joy and excitement... remembering the thrill of the chase there is this phrase I read somewhere that says something like run from a man, let him chase you until you can catch him. lol proud of you girl. Takes me back.... way back .... he hee ha ha what's that faith hill sang "cry a little for me".
btw if he should ask, cassually reply "o that's a friend".... but make it sound like you are lying or hiding relevent info... it will drive him NUTS!!!
LOL wow sexygem, you really do like the game! It's so funny, I HATE it. Im an Aries so I'm a very straight forward person. This game playing business like...doesnt make sense in my head, it like actually doesnt. The thing I keep hearing is "Why is this necessary again...?" LOL I know deep down that it is, it just doesnt click with my genetics.
So, getting him to hear about the date is harder then I thought. The only people ive been able to talk to are not gossips. The few people who would spread it around have seemed to become elusive in the last few days....im starting to wonder if this isnt a sign. But im talking to 'C' about another date so there will be another chance.
And with you and your Cancer, if your getting bored im sure there are lots of things you can do to spice it up. Like...maybe dressing up? Mwahaha.
Hey ladies :). @Sexygem...I'm w/Maria on this one...I get little joy out of playing games lol. I just can't do it. Maybe it's the Aries moon in me that makes me straight-forward, too. Add that in with the fact that I'm a Virgo and that makes for no silliness (at least with relationships) lol. But I do think there can be advantages to playing games, I just haven't mastered that yet...I end up feeling guilty or something. I'd rather we both just know where we stand because I hate wasting time....Then again, I end up wasting time anyways cuz I'm always the only one being open and honest! Ha. Is it weird that when a relationship is going smoothly I begin to get a little restless...maybe even bored? I think I'm so used to the drama that I need to have it or something! Ah well...@MariaRia, keep us posted! If any more ridiculousness happens with my Cancer I'll be sure to post so we can get a few laughs out of it. In all honesty I do wish I knew what was going on with him now, just for shiz and giggles I guess :/...lol