Scoripio Men - I Need Your Input
Yes, way too much of my time and energy has been devoted to the "what ifs" and wondering what he is thinking. Way too much time. I realize I have gone down the rabbit hole and this fretting is serving no purpose other than to make me nuts. I realize, as you said in your situation, if anything is ever going to happen, it is not going to happen now and I just need to move on with my life. I know that if anything ever happens between us, it has to be 100% his idea and decision or he will resent and blame me if things go wrong. I get this.
I have had the thought that if I was with another man he would be jealous. I was recently with him for a week at a spiritual gathering. We were both very busy and didn't see much of each other. A mutual friend (someone who is like a brother to him, but very competitve relationship) asked me to go take a swim with him in the lake--he too was being strangely flirtatious with me. My guy was busy with his work but there was no way he was letting the two of us go swimming alone. He came along and was clearly trying to assert himself in my life, even calling my cat his "Godson" to the other guy. These are middle-aged men, not teenagers. I was laughing my head off inside though it still felt like a situation of, "even though I am not going to act on my desires, no one else can have her either!" That's getting old. My quandary, Scorpio73, as I guess is yours, is even knowing this is not likely to work out, I will be forever comparing any other man in my life to him. Big shoes to fill. Ugh.
I appreciate this, trust me. The "I don't want you, but no one else should have you, either" game is enough to leave me red faced and swearing like a sailor. I have the feeling that both of us have been put on "reserve". It's a rotten f--ng trick to pull on someone. What's worse? I don't even know if it's a conscious act.
I'm trying to ask myself what I really want out of this situation. Would a real friend, romantic or platonic, do this to someone else? I don't think so. Do I really want to wait around to see what might happen? How in the heck do I get this mental rut broken in the mean time? Ugh, indeed.
Yeah, I am always wondering if he is consciously toying with me or if he is sincerely unaware of the torment he is putting me through? He is so damn intuitive that I can't believe he doesn't see it. Though he did tell me once that he is incredibly insightful into the feelings and emotions of others but when it comes to himself, he does not see how he is perceived by others and often asks me for feedback. He tells me I am one of the few people he trusts which I know is BIG for a Scorpio.
I am in the same boat, can I just be his friend, keep it platonic? Because of the closeness, it would feel strange not to have him in my life--we would keep bumping into each other anyway, that's a given. Just a friend doesn't feel good either because of the intensity of the connection. Sometimes I think it is exactly that, the intensity of the energy between us that scares him off. My Scorpio Moon does not let me relax or be detached about it. He is also Scorpio moon, we may be in a stalemate situation.
My new mantra to get out of the mental rut is: "cool, relaxed, detached"
I hear you, my Gemini Moon makes me nutty about this as well.
I wish I had a better answer for you on this. To be honest, and I hope this is my sun sign tendencies speaking: I'd prefer a strong connection and the feeling of being understood along with intensity over something easy going. Why he would wants to pass it up is beyond me, but I'm afraid that's my own situation speaking more than his. My best guess is you're right that he's either afraid of the intensity, but I suspect that he sees you as a something of a confidant. Coupled with his personal beliefs, going to the next level might be akin to sh!tting in his own back yard. (Pardon my French..) I've been guilty of this, unfortunately.
Either way, it's not fair to give anyone mixed signals. I really think you deserve better.
I do deserve better, but the Pisces martyr in me is a glutton for punishment! Really, I want to say to him, "if you're attracted to me but for whatever reason don't want a relationship, be honest and tell me that!" It's his denial that he is attracted that makes me nuts. It totally invalidates me. Quite frankly, I don't think there has been a single man in my life who is more attracted to me than him. He is totally giving mixed signals but denies he is giving any signals at all. He keeps telling me what an incredible woman I am and the last time he stayed at my house would come up and hug me telling me that I am an amazing woman and that I was being "totally wasted" by not being in a relationship. )#$)#*)#)!! When he was leaving to go home, he held me and said, with a choked voice, "this gets harder everytime." (meaning leaving me). Yeah, no attraction there, I can see that. Schmuck.
I am his confidant and he is mine, that is for sure. We often go to each other for advice with sensitive situations. He has also been a huge support to me in personal, spiritual and professional growth. We inspire the best in each other and are really good for each other in that way. When we are together, our conversations go for hours, all the walls come down, and he lets himself be totally vulnerable with me. It's almost as if it is impossible for us to have secrets and there is nothing that I would be ashamed to tell him because I know he wouldn't judge me and vice versa.
Can you expound a bit more on the sh!tting in his own back yard? I am not sure I exactly understand what you mean when you say this. Am I too much like him or too close to him and he doesn't want to mess that up? I still have a feeling that he is using his spiritual beliefs as a shield - a few friends have told me that he has said in the past few years that he is not opposed to remarrying if it "hits him on the head as the right thing to do". From my conversations with him, he was so deeply wounded in his marriage, he has said to me, "why would I do that to myself again?" 10 years after his divorce he is still licking his wounds.
I will be seeing him in a couple of weeks and taking a meditation course he is teaching. I will be on his turf in his state, a first for us. He has been promising me "revenge pampering" for some time. I am wondering if he will hold up that promise or if I should just play it cool, detach and just enjoy my other friends who will be there. I hate playing games and have been so real and up front with him, but I don't always to get the same favor in return. Will somebody please give me a lobotomy!! Somewhere in all of this there is a big fat lesson for me, or some massive karmic debt. A reading said that he and I had unconsumated love in a previous life. Looks like we're in for a repeat offense! Ughorama.
Peace Out, Scorpio 1973 Thanks for hangin' with me on this, it's very helpful and, as you said, therapeutic!
This is really creepy. Sounds like I could really basically switch names and recite the same general story. The detail that's the biggest is this choice of celibacy that he's taken. I'm afraid what I might have to say next might sound coarse and might even get me in trouble with the forum mods, but this is what I'd say to that:
I don't have the same spiritual beliefs for celibacy, but I can say as a male, and a Scorpio to boot, he can''t logically enjoy the lack of physical intimacy. Maybe you've hit this right on the head, it's a shield of sorts. I could honestly see myself trying to convince myself or others of such a life style in order to protect myself. If I had made such an choice, it would be because I'd lost my confidence.
In my own experience, I do have a few women that I am extremely close to, whom I find attractive, and enjoy their company greatly, but simply wouldn't be able to take it to another level. That's what I was referring to earlier. I honestly can't say that's the case in your relationship or not, but I've found myself in that situation before, too.
Are you certain that he feels the same about your relationship, and has the same impression of your connection? Bluntly, it changed my entire perspective on things with my gal. I wouldn't have been happy had she caught me on the toilet, but other than that, I honestly found most of the normal limits to be moot I can't imagine anyone seeing this sort of relationship any differently.. When it comes right down to it, have you made a direct, but subtle move on him? A "look" perhaps? Give him a blatant, but subtle and unforced green light so that it wouldn't embarrass either one of you if he wasn't going to respond. I think that's what I'd do, but then again my track record isn't stellar, either!
Just please take what I say with some caution, too. In my case, all I really said was: You've changed how you're acting towards me, and it's confusing. What do you want from me? Considering some of the things we'd said to each other, I thought that would be minor. I didn't think that would cause a severe argument, let alone a friendship to come to a screeching halt, either.
In our relationship, friendship has always trumped all else. Twice I have been very direct with him about my feelings. Twice he has said that he adores me, sees me as one of his closest friends but has no romantic interest in me or in anyone. The first time I told him my feelings, he acted dumbfounded but it did not phase our friendship. Most men would have restrained themselves and pulled back so as not to continue giving the wrong message. He did the opposite and became more flirtatious and engaging. This Spring, a year after my first declaration to him, I was at my limits of frustration with him. I had gone to India on a three month sabbatical, at his suggestion. The whole time I was there, we Skyped back and forth and had deep conversations. He kept saying that he wished he were with me seeing India through my eyes (he likes to see how I see and feel the world). I had my birthday there, a perfect day but all I wanted was to have him call me. He did, he got my phone number from a mutual friend and alled me twice on my birthday from the US, wanting to know everything I was doing that day down to the last detail.
A girl can only take rejection so many times. I absolutely agree with you on the physical part. He is not constructed for celibibacy and is anything but pious in his flirtations with me and the sexual inuendos he hurls around. I don't have guy friends who have ever talked to me that way. I know he has the same feelings that I do. It's oozing out of him. There is nothing subtle about it and people who see us together assume we are a couple. The way he touches, holds me and looks at me says he is interested. He and a friend were staying at my place once. She said she felt like she was the third wheel on a date the way he was carrying on with me.
We are both teachers in an international spiritual organization. He is very senior in the organization. Sometimes I wonder if he is afraid of people's perceptions, though as I observe him, that doesn't seem to be the case. Being a Scopio, he has a close inner circle of friends who he began introducing me to one by one. Each of the said, he talks about you non-stop, he thinks the world of you. My former boss, who knew my guy years before I did, had lunch with him last year and she said she kept trying to change the subject but he kept bringing the topic back to me.
After the second time I told him he is sending me mixed signals. We had a long video Skype conversation and my normally cool as a cucumber, confident man was like a teenage boy squirming in his seat, running his hands thorugh his hair, totally off center as he back peddled and said he is this way with all his close female friends. I have observed him with these friends and know this is not the case. He has agreed that we have a very close connection and go back life times. Our friendship was unphased and continues to be strong because we both value it so highly. I keep telling myself that perhaps this is only meant to be a friendship and spiritual connection, but the electric energy between us begs to differ.
I would like to be bold and make some sort of physical advance though I now feel like I would be such an a** to make a move on him after he has said twice he is not interested and risk rejection #3. Though I have considered saying to him, "either cut it out with the long, sultry stares or kiss me and get it over with!" I mortify myself just thinking about that. : ) I will have to ponder a blunt but subtle green light to give him. Thanks for the tip.
This still sounds too familiar. Most people thought we were married by the way we act around each other. One difference is that we did have a few drunken episodes that crossed the line, but that usually got me a cold shoulder for a few weeks. After that, she pretended nothing happened. I chalked it up to alcohol and stopped drinking with her.
I'll be honest, I don't want to even begin to predict how he'd respond, but being subtle might not upset things too much. I'd get a 2nd opinion on this though, please!!!!
At a worst case scenario, just get the heck out of the situation for a while and give yourself the opportunity to find some peace. It might take a good deal of time, but after that, there would still be a way you could still remain friends with him. This in between stage is soul destroying.
Well, neither he or I drink, so no drunken episodes to push us to the other side, though maybe that's what we need! LOL! So strange the similarities between our stories... I can't explain any of it other than it must be some weird karmic lesson he or I need to learn.
The suggestions I am getting from female friends is just to cool it down and back away completely from communication with him for awhile, as you suggest, too. It's not like we communicate constantly, maybe once a week or so by phone or Skype. It feels bad to do it, but I think necessary. I have to put a restraining order on myself (!), it's so hard for me not to be in contact with him but I wonder too if I am too available so he takes me for granted. Maybe if I am a scarce commodity in his life, he will decide he misses me. Another intuitive friend of mine says he is just in total fear of being hurt and to send him good vibes of happiness and safety.
I will do my best not to communicate with him until I see him in a couple of weeks. I will be with other freinds and he will be teaching, so it will be easier to downplay a lot of communication with him. Some days I just want to rattle his bones and say, be straight with me, man! Maybe he has been and I just can't accept it. It just doesn't feel that way, he's holding back.
Yes, we are in the soul destroying stage, and boy does it stink. May the force be with us, Scorpio1973!
Believe me, I'm trying to see what I should take away from this, too. Maybe that masochism shouldn't be practiced?
I'd back off, but for your own sanity's sake as your primary goal. I wouldn't necessarily expect him to come running. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't rationalize your distance and reassure himself with this choice of celibacy. Then again, the opposite may be true. Don't be surprised if his storming back into your life comes in a very unsuspecting subtle manner. I don't want to see you hurt even more by this, so I just want you to prepare yourself for any turn of events.
This is what happened in my experience: We had a drag out fight that brought out some of our worst insulting tendencies mixed with some multi-lingual obscenities (she's German, I'm American), but we "resolved it". I wasn't about to chase after her after being called crazy or after being told that I can't speak my own language. (I'm an ESL teacher abroad) I didn't hear anything from her from early December until the end of March when I received a 1 line text from her saying that she missed me and my humor. (Mine tends to be dirty and filled with innuendo, too. I found that reassuring to hear you say that.) I wasn't sure if responding was the right thing to do, so I mulled the thought for a few days before answering simply, "how are you? I miss you, too."
That didn't get me an answer at all. I suspect I should have not answered at all as I didn't challenge her enough. The next contact I initiated at the end of May. I had just received a contingent job offer back home, and got an impulse to say goodbye. When I told her this, I got "Wow, you might leave? Cheers." I tried to extend the conversation, but got no further response. I'm not planning to contact her again.
This is more for my own sanity, not to illicit any kind of response from her. I suspect that I pushed her too far, but I can't stress this enough. If you knew the details of the things we'd confided in each other, "what do you want from me" didn't seem like it would be a show stopper and her nastiness caused me to walk away more than rejection. She insisted that it was all in my head and that it was purely my problem. I guess I took a brutal way of dealing with it as a result. If it was only in my head and only my problem, I decided that I wasn't going to go through it again and would do what was necessary to make sure I didn't cause it to happen again. Perhaps some sour grapes on my part, but I'm human, too.
Sorry for hijacking your thread. This has been quite comforting for what it's worth. That's what happened in my situation, so my hopes are that even if you don't go to the next level with him, that you can maintain friendship with him. It's such a waste of time and energy to let something like that slip away. I've often wondered if I wasn't projecting my own feelings into my situation causing it to cloud my judgment, too. It certainly didn't feel that way to me, or appear that way to others who saw us together. At the end of the day, it takes two to tango. If he's not willing (even if he DOES want to in some way large or small), there's not a heck of a lot anyone can do about it. It's ok to stay in this in between limbo stage, but don't stay there indefinitely. When you're ready, draw the line for yourself and make the decision to do what you need to. (God, am I talking to you or myself?)
Scorpio1973, you are so not hijacking this thread, only enhancing and illuminating it with your story. Which, as we have come to find, is also my story... So, write on! I was wondering if you were overseas with the times you were posting. My ex was from Croatia and worked in Germany a lot, Heidelberg, so I spent a lot of time there. I worked in both Croatia and Austria for three years. I don't understand either why your woman got so upset about the "what do you want from me?" It could be that she really didn't know and had conflicting feelings about it. So strange, all of my life I have not had scorpio relationships or even friendships until the past few years. I am wading through trying to understand. I recently had a female scorp friend giving me a crash course on all things scorpio. Dark, stormy, mysterious and I think, often more confusing to themselves than anyone else.
I don't really want to cut things off with my guy. The reality is that he is a precious friend and that's where our foundation is. Friendship comes before all else with us; my quandary however, is that my silly pisces sun causes me to dream and fantasize too much and my scorpio moon makes me obsessive about the relationship and occupies way too much of my heart and brain space! Oy vey. For a long while we had a healthy communication back and forth, bit of us taking turns initiating phone calls and Skype chats. After the last round of me asking him to declare himself, he definitely pulled back a bit, was less likely to be the one to initiate a conversation. He has said he himself was confused about how to have a close friendship with a woman and not give the wrong impression that he is interested romantically.
So, here is the interesting thing, a bit on the "woo woo" side, but that is also the nature of our connection... You're a Scorp, you can handle it! : )I have been getting treatments from an intuitive body worker. She realigns energy in the body, clears chakras, clear negative energy and gives a great massage. She is brilliant at what she does and incredibly inutitive. I told her about my guy and wanting to pull back a bit. She tapped into him and said that he is definitely attracted to me but not going to act on it at this point. I have been aware of energy cords between he and I. When I was in India earlier this year, I could physically feel a pull at my solar plexus and I always new it was him, thinking about me. She confirmed that we had this silvery energy cord connecting us at the solar plexus. She said that with this cord in this location, we were playing it 'safe'. She said that there was also a beautiful purple cord connecting our heart centers and she even teared up saying the love between us was so beautiful. We agreed that she would remove the silver cord as it was potentially holding the relationship back. As she removed it, I could feel it--very weird sensation. She said, "he won't like this, you will hear from him soon. She said he would feel like something is missing. Sure enough, the next morning, he skyped me with some inane work related question, but I knew it was his way of opening the door and we ended up having one of our lively and hilarious chats. The next day, I woke up inspired to send him an e-mail about this phiosophical question I had been pondering for months. I sent it in the morning, knowing he was teaching all day, didn't expect to hear from him. right after I sent the e-mail, he called my cell which I didn't hear and left a message saying he was intrigued by my letter and wanted to talk. He immediately called my home phone and gave me the most beautiful knowledge on the topic and kept talking to me literally as he was walking into his class to begin teaching. We're getting back into our groove, but instead of me just enjoying it for what it is in the moment, I start projecting into the future. That's what's not healthy for me. Every time I think I have pulled back and am a bit more detached, he says or does something, or someone else, like this energy worker, says something, and my mind is set to spinning again. Two people who have looked at our charts have said his attraction to me will be much stronger a year from now. The only thing I can see to do is to continue to pull back as much as I can, focus on my life and all that needs to be taken care of, and to focus on myself, getting stronger, more centered and at peace with what is. This body worker said that he is too strong for me now (he is highly evolved spiritually, lots of crazy powers that he has that he doesn't let on about but that I come to discover one by one) but that I am growing quickly spiritually and will match him soon. Heck, maybe I'll want to be celibate by then, too!! LOL
I am off to the mountains for a concert under the stars tonight. Good tonic for a restless heart!
Wow Leslye, I am awed by what the energy worker was able to do between the two of you, I need to find someone that does that work! i would love to know about all the connections, ect I have with others. I totally bieleve you when you say you can feel those, and beielve scorpio is amazing at sending these out to where we can feel it, their energy can seem very powerful lol if they are focused on you. I can't entirely explain what I was getting from one, but I could tell they were very intune to me, and what they had to say to me was coming through energy wise loud and clear.
@Bluecat, there are more and more people like this coming into their powers. I love my body worker as she is so down-to-earth and humble. I have refered scores of people to her to help them get "unstuck" and clear negative energy. My scorpio guy is also very down-to-earth and unassuming about his abilities but has done healings on me (and thousands of others), sees and communicates with spirits along with a whole bevy of other things. The first time I communicated my feelings to him, he was in India. He responded immediately via e-mail and wanted to be sure I was OK and that his rejection of a relationship had not hurt my heart. A few days later, I was sitting home alone on the sofa working on my computer. Something caught my eye from the periphery, I looked up, and he was standing there, clear as day, just for a few seconds. He had bilocated and come to check on me to be sure I was OK. Holy mackeral! I joke that I need to wear a tinfoil hat when I am around him so he can't read my mind, though I know that is a lost cause! If you tell me the city you are in, I might be able to find a connection for you for an energy worker.
Jesus, I'm living in Zagreb, Croatia...Bio sam u vojsci u Bosni u 90ima i preselio sam se ovdje prije 7 godina. This is really creepy.
Hmm. I'm trying to imagine how I'd react, too. I think I'd be a little hesitant to initiate contact, if I wasn't ready to make a move. I'm not 100% clear on his reasons for choosing celibacy, but if you do still want to move things toward something more romantic, I think you might see better results with a subtle approach rather than asking him directly. (Just imagining myself in the same scenario.) I'm afraid this will sound harsh, but are you sure he could or should be persuaded away from this choice he's made?
That's a a really touching set of events!! I'm happy for you. I'm sure he's attracted, too. If he feels as connected as you do, and it certainly seems that way, there's no way he could not be.
I'm going to have to research energy workers. To be honest, this is a casual interest for me, but I'm intrigued now that I'm reading what you're saying. I'm usually too skeptical for my own good, but find myself being interested anyway.
What Scorpio73 said made me think and I think he has respect for her, like he doesn't want to ruin it, so hes keeping it "pure" or something like that mabe for the time being? I'm near St Louis Leslye thanks!
What was creepy scorpio 73? lol sorry i missed that. or went over my head
Wow. I lived and worked in Split for 2.5 years and spent a fair amount of time in Zagreb at my former organization's country office. Boze moj! My ex and I had weekend a home Sovici-Grude in Bosna I Hercegovina. We met in Makarska in 1985. Creepy? Nah? This type of thing is par for the course in my life! LOL. There are no coincidences.
Back to the man front... The strong sense I have always gotten from him is that he has an internal conflict going on. A veritable tug of war between his head and heart. There is nothing on his spiritual path that mandates he be celibate. It's a sincere ' I don't know' on my part. If someone has made a serious commitment in their life, whether it be marriage, celibacy, a committed relationship, I have absolute respect for that and would never meddle in any of these situations. However, with my guy, given the energy between us, the attention he gives me and his words and actions that often do not strike me as a man fully sold on the idea of celibacy, there is room for me to wonder. I often also wonder because he has such profound intuitive power, if he knows things about the future that I don't. He has already predicted many things that have come to pass in my life. Several times he has done energy healings on me and when he is done, his eyes get wide and he said, "thousands of people are coming to you." Meaning my role as a teacher will expand. Who knows, maybe I will choose celibacy! My life gets more surreal by the day, so that would be about right...
Hi Bluecat. I have teacher friends in St. Louis. I will check with them to see if they know of any good energy workers and will let you know!
The creepy thing Scorpio73 refered to was the fact that he and I are two Americans who both lived (he is still there) in Croatia and we have very similar experiences with the objects of our affection in our lives. For me, this is a normal synchronicity in my life, I expect the extraordinary. : )