The heart of a Virgo man
MissChristie last edited by
Lesser Virgo. More inclined to be less a perfectionist but it will still be there.
Well thank you MissChristie for all of your contributions and taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences. You have given me much to think about, as well as many others as I'm sure! While I'll probably forge ahead in optimism (always determined to learn my lessons the hard way I think, lol), I'd like to think that your words have touched others who may be struggling with a similar circumstance. Will look forward to seeing you on a different thread at some point!
slowsteady last edited by
Hi Jenever7, I have been reading your posts for the past 1 week and then decided to register and share my story with you. I am a libran woman in love with a virgo man who is married with 4 kids. I am seperated and have a lovely son from my not so lovely marriage. My virgo came into my life at a time when I was going through a rough patch with my marriage. We have been seeing eachother for over a year now. He says if he leaves his wife he would loose his kids. At the beginning I just couldn't handle the fact that I was sharing a man. I tried to finish it off but he came back saying he loves me sincerely. I just cannot seem to do without him either. I don't know what the outcome of our relationship will be, but the one thing that I am sure of is that this is one relationship that gives me immense happiness and joy. No matter what the world says, I am mot giving it up unless fate and destiny has something else in store!
My virgo man does everything possible to keep me happy. Gradually I have learnt to realise that this is not an easy relationship, it comes with a lot of excess baggage, keeping in mind that he is a married man with loads of responsibilities, but again this is the only relationship that gives me my happiness.
I totally understand how you feel and I don't think you are doing anything wrong by following your heart.
Momofone1965 last edited by
This forum caught my eye when I saw "The heart of a Virgo man". Where do I start? I am a married Virgo woman who stays in my marriage of 17 years for my child. My husband is a Libra and he is a good man. I met a man on the internet over a year ago. Guess what? He is a Virgo.
We started chatting about our lives and got to know each other. He too is in a marriage he was unhappy in, staying for his kids. Before long we exchanged phone numbers. We talked daily, every morning, texting during the day, every evening. He told me "why didn't I find you sooner? you are my soul mate". He continued to tell me tidbits like that here and there. My heart soared. I was growing closer and closer to him to. We talked about when the kids (his and mine) are grown, that we'd leave our spouses and be with each other for the rest of our lives. We would talk about our spouses, spewing our unhappiness about every damn thing. Finally I had a huge arguement with my husband, wanting to end it right then. I talked with my Virgo and he was shocked that I had spoken up the way I had. So he had a similar talk with his wife. While my relationship with my husband still is rocky, the talk made his marriage stronger. His wife begged him not to leave and that she would change. Virgo called me and thanked me for giving him the courage to speak up. He wants to be friends. This man that said he loved me and that we are soul mates wants to be friends. It has been a few weeks now that I haven't spoke with him (my decision). I miss him horribly.
After reading alot of responses here on this post, I have realized alot of things about myself. I do want alot of attention. I have been searching for who I am suppose to be all my life. It bugs me that alot of people have a passion and follow it. What is my passion? I would love to find it. I am picky, fault finding, seemingly cold. I am very analytical (too much I'm told). I try to figure out every little comment, looking for the meaning between the lines. I want to be right in all I do. I hate mistakes, mine or others. (Irony, I know, if I was "right", why would I be having an affair?) Scared....perfect word....Virgos are scared of the unknown.
To help you with your Virgo man, he might really mean that he will leave when the time comes. Will I leave when my daughter graduates? I say I will right now. Time makes emotions ebb and flow. Will I fall back into love with my husband? Virgos are planners. Any going off course bugs us. We want predictability. I think you are doing the right thing with dating others and not keeping yourself for him.
Part of me wants to tell you to tell him that you are fully committed and see what happens. Tell him that you will wait, tell him about plans of the "new business" that the two of you can create. Start planning and share the details with him. If he helps you formulate the plan, he is there for you. Had my Virgo told me he was leaving his wife and it was over right now, I would have gone to him, not waiting for my daughter to grow up.
There is so much more I can say, but I need to refocus elsewhere. My heart is hurting just talking about this. I really wish you the best.
Slowsteady, thanks for joining the thread. You know exactly what I am talking about. The hardest part does seem to be keeping perspective on how much time these guys have to spend just dealing with their responsibilities. Mine also coaches two kid's softball leagues, on top of running his own business. The distance between us is just enough to put an added glitch in things as well (30 minutes one way - figure even if we only spend an hour together that's two hours of the day).
Like yours, my Virgo assures me that he does the best he can, and to be quite honest, before I really got my head around what it takes for him to be involved with me, I was pretty selfish and snarly about how much attention I received. It took me some time to "do the math" and recognize that it really is a challenge for him to spend time with me. I doubt that most men would have stuck it out this long under similar circumstances (and dealing with my attitude) if there weren't something between us worth the effort.
I think, overall, it comes down to what we want in a relationship. I naturally like a lot of personal space, and like you, I have my own responsibilities with work and my children that make my life complicated in it's own right. I've dated other men while seeing Virgo, because I figured I owed it to myself to make sure I was giving myself a chance to have a more "normal" relationship, but each time all it does is make me appreciate my Virgo more. It simply becomes less and less about the time spent together, and more and more about how much I value my Virgo for who he is. Not that I don't look forward to (even angst about at times) the day we can finally be together, but he continues to assure me that the day will come and that "right now we're really perfect for each other because we can have enough of what we need in each other, and still give our children what they need until they get a little older". I'm not sure he really understands that "enough" is probably a little different to a needy Cancer like me, lol, but I get his point. Although to some extent I think he says this more to justify things to himself than to appease me, as it helps him face the fact that he's the one who is stuck right now. I'm divorced and free.
So you see there's sadness for our Virgo men in all this too. Yours doesn't want to lose his kids, mine doesn't want to lose his "baby", the business that he built by himself ("I love my little business - I've got my heart in it") or the opportunity to be there full-time for his children. These guys are dealing with living without us as well, in marriages that make them unhappy. As my guy pointed out a while back, "if we keep seeing each other the hardest part is going to be dealing with the fact that I can't be with the person I really want". On that note, I struggle to buy into the notion that you or I are some how at fault for "damaging" these guy's marriages.
You mentioned "baggage" and I can tell you too, that whatever the details of my Virgo's daily "dramas" with his wife, it's leaving him in a constant state of stress, negativity, and wears on his self-esteem. Frankly, I'll be amazed if he endures as long as he plans to. My ex was the same way with me, and despite my every intention of sticking things out for the benefit of my three sons, the day I finally snapped, there simply was no turning back. Nothing was worth feeling diminished on a daily basis like that, not the house, not the money, not the security of having "somebody", and I figured a mom living depressed and in misery didn't have the right stuff to emotionally nourish her sons anyway, so I was really doing them no favors.
Based on this thread history, this is the point where we should completely ignore any possibility that Virgo man really has a soul and that he is totally lying and playing me. But I can sense his sadness and he never holds back in telling me how much he appreciates that I stick with him in all this - that I would care about him that much. It certainly has it's challenges....lol.
I wish you so much strength dealing with your situation slowsteady, and hope that you two will be free to share your lives completely some day. I think that, assuming that all hearts involved have pure intentions, that being forced to build these relationships slowly and with a sort of trust and "blind faith" that a "normal" relationship doesn't demand right up front, could lead to amazing relationships down the road for us. As you say, barring the intervention of Fate, there's too much to let go without first seeing where things may lead..... As long as you're finding happiness and contentment in your Virgo man and that's enough right now, then I'm with you, I think it's all good!
Momofone - I'm so very sorry for your pain. As you say...emotions ebb and flow. Something was "wrong" enough with your Virgo's marriage that he wandered off, met you, indulged in a relationship with you. Now, in what sounds like a flash, his wife is going to change and everything is roses? Is life ever so simple? Do you know anyone who has changed overnight? I don't want to give you false optimism here, but good grief, this sounds like too quick a "fix" to be for real. Like so many other things, only time will tell. I think it's nice that you are at least open to keeping in touch with him (and understandable that you are making space to heal your heart right now.) If you want to share more when you're up to it, I'm here to listen. (And have found lots of other support here in this forum as well - even when the comments are blunt and honest I know that it comes from the right place, everyone seeking to protect others from even greater hurts.)
Your insights on approaching my Virgo are fascinating though. I have been trying more and more lately to reveal the extent of my feelings to him. This is hard for me as, being a Cancer, I always feel the stress of revealing my vulnerabilities - always bracing myself to get rejected if I tell him too much.) But lately, in part because of this thread, I'm getting a little more "all or nothing" inspiration towards the situation. I'm better prepared to take a few risks.
I guess to some extent too, I haven't wanted him to feel like I'm pushing him in any direction. I sincerely want him to be dead sure about me and not find out later that there's still something in him that always wanted to mend things with his wife. (As in your situation.) I think that when I review our relationship, he has actually been very open about what he wants, and as you pointed out, quite specific and with a plan. I have remained aloof, because I'm scared that he doesn't really mean it, or more so that I don't dare let myself believe it, out of fear of being disappointed later. But also because he has some extreme sensitivity about being "controlled or manipulated". I believe this is coming from his wife, so I have been cautious about not appearing to want to move in too fast and run his life. As a consequence I guess he probably doesn't really have a good picture of where I stand on him and the future.
I'm going to think on your suggestions Momofone. I can see where you may be right about this. This could also be the big "test" of whether he really has it in his heart to be with me (even though he has stated it numerous times - but again, Cancer that I am, I may need to hear it 100 times), or is there going to be a lapse back into the apparently suffocating, but predictable safety of his marriage.
So glad you found the courage to share your thoughts today, and I'll let you know how things go. Meanwhile, don't forget, I'm here (and many others) if you want to talk.
slowsteady last edited by
Hello Momofone1965, I am really sorry to read your story, it must be very painful for you. Has your virgo tried calling or texting after that? Is he restless now that you are not answering his calls? From my personal experience and from what I have seen around me, no marriage can get stronger overnight.
You have to give yourself a break, don't judge yourself too much, try to take it easy a little bit. All virgos are over analytical, that's their main characteristic, I guess you can't do anything about it. But try and spend time doing something you like doing, like watching movies or reading books. Have you ever tried meditating? I used to jump at the thought od meditation, thinking I wouldn't be able to close my eyes for more than 3 minutes at a stretch. I was wrong, I joined Sahaj Marg, it is a natural, simple system of Yoga meditation and spiritual practice that helps one realize the ultimate potential within oneself. It helped me big time! Instead of staying depressed all the time and judging myself for no rhyme or reason, I started looking at life in a simple and uncomplicated way. The changes were amazing and they were all for the best.
I am putting down the website address of this spritual foundation, they have their missions almost all over the world. Hope it helps you!
Take care and all the best|!
2shine last edited by
I share the same story, word by word...jst a few nos here & there. Its been 1.5 yrs pursuing this relationship without any commitment from him. Same as you, have tried my best to break away...but However he is relentless and comes back with more force with a promise that he would make this relationship a success one day....but hasnt done a bit to prove or atleast start walking/working. Whenever i give up or escalate, he jst assures in words but no action so far.
Its very frustrating now...as its strange to be in love with a person who is not there to emotionally support you when you are falling and does not realize wat the other person is going through/forgoing in waiting for him without any certain time frame/comitment.
Like you i am too seeking for the right direction/advise.Actually i want to get away from this mess as this love is not helping me to grow spiritually & positively.
mega123 last edited by
I whole heartedly agree with MissChristie's post (the wise Virgo she is) in that you a involved in an affair and you have to be reponsible for that (as you say you are). But how do you personally justify treating another woman like this? You talk about what he's doing but you seem to be assiduously avoiding comment on your role in his marriage. It may not be your marriage, but you have become part of his marriage and you can't avoid this. One of my best friends used to indulge in affairs and she always looked at the guy as the cheater and she was just having fun (as a single person you see - not her responsibility). Personally I believe that even if she was an absolute harridan she does NOT deserve this. I can't imagine that she is that bad or course, it's just male-speak. You talk about his integrity - it is palpable he has none! I don't wish to rain on your parade but I cannot comprehend treating another woman like that over a dumbass male. Really I don't care if he's Brad Pitt because he is never going to be worth it! If he had integrity he would have bitten the bullet already and left his wife (regardless of the money, as it is not everything in life, otherwise he wouldn't be with you afterall!). But he has taken the easy option, the road most traveled.
Sorry, my Cancer ascendent doesn't like me being brutal, but it just makes me angry that women indulge men's bad behaviour and then they wonder why they get hurt. I have been approached by married men for affairs and I always think of the wife and am incredulous. I am a romantic and to me there is nothing romantic about being with someone who is actually with someone else. I would have to switch my brain off (Geminis have a hard time doing this!).
It is possible that I prefer women to men. I have friends of both gender, and really the females I know are generally a lot kinder, more generous and easier to get along with and don't play mind games. Men can be more interesting to talk to but I get bored with them being so in awe of themselves. I don't find women generally like that (not my friends at least). Oh and I must say my last partner was a cheater - a lot of Scorpio in his chart. Insecure and egotistical, so it was appropriate that he hooked up with a teenager (he is in his 30s). The demise of our relationship was a mercy killing and long time coming. I am stupidly loyal at times, well I used to be. Strangely we are still friends but he wants to get back - yaddah yaddah - whateva!!
My eldest sister's marriage (of 20 yrs) has recently ended because her husband took up with one of her best friends. He seemed to want to keep both relationships going at once and was shocked to find out that my sister wanted him to leave. My nephew who is now just 18 was the biggest victim as his dad was his hero. Now he just thinks he's a bit of an idiot and a loser. Ironically his father used to be very anti this behaviour as his father had done exactly the same thing. Perhaps somewhere in the recesses of this brain he saw such behaviour as a viable option? How knows? But he is not a good role model for his son. Incidentally my nephew (who is an exceptionally nice and very smart kid) will not have anything at all to do with his father's girlfriend.
MissChristie last edited by
Hi Mega123: thank you for the kind compliment, calling me a "wise Virgo". Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way and through much heartbreak. I found your comments about female friends vs. male friends interesting: One of my good friends is an older woman, very vital, and her husband of 40 some years. They are professionals, both medical doctors, in fact. Once, in conversation, the husband told me, "I have met so many very nice women in my life and very few nice men". And these comments do not come from a cheating womanizer. He meant what he said. I have often felt that if all of us women would stop allowing the behavior of these men, empowering them, actually, they would have to own up, grow up and be responsible for the families that they are supposed to be the head of. So many women actively and willingly, cut each other down, jealously undercut each other. Hmmm. . .the old adage of the enemy: divide and conquer. Our Jen is not doing the right thing. She should tell him to get a divorce---and call her in the morning.
Mega123 and MissChristie: I would agree wholeheartedly with much of what you say, other than you have put me in the wrong place in all of this. Read my very first post. This man lied his way into my life. It was three months before I discovered that he was married. There is nothing in me that would knowingly get involved with a married man for all the obvious reasons - I want a guy who is available! Plus I'm a total Cancer (7/7), I want a guy I can have ALL to myself, lol.
Unfortunately, the emotions were already running deep when I learned the truth. Infidelity is very foreign territory for me, and territory I will never willingly travel again. BUT, meanwhile, I AM obviously trying to sort out what to do here. Frankly I don't feel the sympathy for his wife that you might hope for, any more than I would have expected anyone to sympathize with me or my husband when our marriage was disintigrating. My husband could have had a dozen affairs and it wouldn't have changed the basic issues that were tearing the marriage down - wouldn't have changed it by one iota (although the divorce settlement may have looked a little different, lol). A marriage is the job of two people - a team effort - that ideally should be able to survive any sort of external stresses. The reality is that what is really going on isn't external - it's internal - it's about one or both partners not getting what they need emotionally - hearts that aren't fulfilled. I'm sorry, but thinking that one little vixen can come along and wreck an otherwise solid marriage is more naiive than me thinking that this Virgo and I might actually end up together someday. And again, I reiterate, I was not the one who found my way into his world, he found me.
But anyway, last weekend Virgo and I had a very serious discussion about what we are doing together. As a result we're both on a mutual "break" for a couple of weeks, no calls, IM's, text or meeting (good grief, it had been 2 months since we had seen each other this last time - not likely any further breaks are going to change anything - but we both need some mental space for a bit). I'm just generally tired of the uncertainty and the emotional ups and downs that result from his situation. He's tired of feeling that he has to make any kind of decision, because, let's face it, unless he's planning on getting that divorce any sooner than 4 years, he has zero options anyway. The very best that he can ever hope for in this situation is that I will continue to put up with it all, and put up with him.
And make no mistake ladies, I'm not hanging onto empty promises for one year, let alone four years. At one point in our conversation he made the statement, "I have never meant any hurt to you in all of this, and if I have scarred you in any way as a result I am asking you from the bottom of my heart and soul to forgive me". My reply was, "I'm not getting scarred because I'm trying to understand things as they unfold, but what about you? Am I scarring you in all this? I am pretty ruthless about forcing people to face themselves and their issues. Given that I have nothing to lose in this relationship as it stands right now, I admit that I am particularly harsh on you."
Suffice to say, I give my Virgo much to think about and I say what needs to be said even at the risk of hurting him or losing him. I often think that's the very thing that keeps him coming back for more, Virgo's being the mental/analytical creatures that they are. At some level I think it all fascinates him to be able to talk about us and relationships in general without there being any real life-altering consequence to deal with. I'm kind of like the "shrink" he probably needs but would never really seek out on his own. And I gotta say, given the intensity of some of our conversations, lesser men would have surely crumbled by now, but here he is, just still seeing where things will go and working things out as well, albeit in his own way, lol.
Honestly, it still wouldn't surprise me in the least if he turns around and decides to try to patch things up with his wife, and I have encouraged him ten different ways to do so. But they've had 14 years together and only they can decide if they're willing to do the work, a LOT of work, to pull things back together. I always say God brings people together for a reason. Virgo dropped into my life out of nowhere with his own agenda and a situation that I wanted NOTHING to do with, but I'm too close to him now to just walk away. I have no intention of ever losing him as a friend no matter what the outcome, but I really deeply feel that we are both getting some very serious life lessons in all of this, and more and more I believe my lesson is simply affirming what I want out of life and relationships. As I told him several times, whatever I decision I make going forward has nothing to do with who he is as a person, I truly love him as a person, but it has EVERYTHING to do with his circumstances in life right now and all the constraints that exist for ever having anything grow between us. It can exist, but it really can not grow and it starts to become, well....futile.
I'll say again though, I have no intention of abandoning him as a friend. He's on a spiritual journey in my opinion, with lots of unchecked emotions, no shortage of confusion, and a perception that he has no real options at this time. I'm not going to to sit in judgement on what he needs to do, but I am going to manage how I am involved with him. I'd go so far as to say though, that if he hadn't found me when he did, he might have gotten himself into some even worse situations by now considering I met him on an online social site. I really do think he cares about me enough right now that even if he doesn't respect his wife with his filandering, he's not quite ready to let me down...not quite yet, lol.
Virgo's wife may actually have much to thank me for in that respect. I DO have a conscious and I try very hard to dig my Virgo's conscious out in all of this, not simply about his wife, but in my own interest as well. He NEEDS to see the power he's wielding to hurt people in all directions and he NEEDS to be accountable for his actions. I believe that sometimes showing a person compassion can compel them to transform their behavior whereas simply getting angry and blowing them off, really just lets them off the hook and allows them to feel justified in showing no remorse. My Virgo does not deserve to be let off the hook that way. Nope, I'm going to stick by him as a friend as long as I personally am comfortable with it, because I think that's a much deserved punishment for him, lol. Meanwhile, you can rest assured that I am not a gal who believes that any man should get to "have his cake and eat it too", and I am not just open to finding a different relationship with a nice, single, available man - I am looking forward to it!
So please ladies, quit stereotyping me as some ruthless homewrecker trying to steal some poor woman's man away. I can assure you that if I walk away from Virgo right now, it won't change a thing about how he feels about his wife or where their relationship is destined to go. (For all ANY of us knows she's counting the days to be rid of him too ya know! Maybe just waiting till the kids are older.) I believe that he's practical enough that when I do find someone else, he isn't going to make any rash, emotional decisions to leave the marriage either to try to keep me. As has been made very clear, he is a man with a plan and I'm betting he'll try to make that plan work as long as he possibly can. Let's see if he will be as big a person as I have tried to be in all of this when I find someone else.
AZCancer last edited by
I am a cancer married to a Virgo who was married when I met him, said the marriage was over which it turned out it was not on paper for another four years. Then after five years found out there was a five year old I never knew about.
As all of us Cancer's are I am very up front and furious that he put me in that postion since foolishly I believed him. This was mind torture for me to be sure. I have developed over the years a mechanism to shut out those that cause me pain, and frustration, another cancer trait, God bless those shells and claws. When you get us angry don't even try to talk to us until we are ready. We have learned to depend on no one, if we love you we will do anything for you, if you hurt us better get your winter coat out.
I threw him out of my house, changed the locks turned of the answering machine and the ringer, even had a restraing order out once. Finally many years of back and forth me fighting with myself as to why I did not walk away and stay away - it was his presestant pursuit and romatic that kept pulling me back - we are suckers for that. Now we are happily married after years of me telling him no way in hell would I marry him. We have been together over 13 years now with a nice comfortable family home as all cancers and are best friends.
With all this stuff going on not to mention the step children and etnicity issues I have neglected my friends and most don't understand. I feel guility and sad but I just could not deal with setting plans with friends when things where so crazy at home. Things have finally settled since our marriage and having kids living in and out of the house so I will humbly get in contact with friends again.
It is very hard emotionally for Cancer's, I feel like I took on a crash course on life this time around, been though it all but all of it not as bad as it could have been. An example, my Brother was murdered, we don't know who (we have our suspisions which have been confirmed by Allison DuBoise) but at least we know where he is. I was totally out of commision for two months after this, could not even work, wanted the world to stop. That is our burden, emotional sensetivity on hyper mode.
I have walked away from jobs where people are back stappers, yelling and just plan miserable never to return. If you can't even speak civally to one another why would anyone want to be in this environment. I can always go to the temp agency and get in somewhere. I work hard, happily doing more than my share and helping others but if you start taking advantage things can change in a nano second. I have to work in a colligale atmosphere and be a contributer in order to feel good about my job.
I wish all of you cancerians strengeth to deal with our sensativities and the loved ones to honor and appreicate what that brings to the table.
myZCX last edited by
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dttn last edited by
I read your posts going back to early July when I was looking for some information on how confusing a Virgo man can be. I found your trail of posts to be very insightful and am hoping you can help me out with a situation I am in.
I too met a Virgo man online about 7 months ago. He is married and so am I. I had had an affair prior to meeting him that lasted 3 1/2 years with a Scorpio.
Let me make it clear that I had been faithful to my husband for many years and it was because of my husband that this 1st affair happened. I will admit that after the affair ended I was looking for something to fill the void. In comes Mr Virgo.
The first time I chatted on line with him it was for about 3 minutes and then he said can you do me a favor and come back on line later please please please, I would love to talk some more.
That is how it started. That was last December. I have seen the man 4 times in 7 months. We have not had relations although on one of our meetings we did play around.
From the moment we started chatting we had texted each other daily, talked on the phone daily and met like I said 4 times. NOW I have not seen him since February. He has told me that he loves me every time we speak. The problem is that I have not seen him and we now only speak about once a week. He still says he loves me every time we hang up the phone. I have asked him what he wants, I have said to him that maybe I need to walk away and he says NO please just give me more time. He has also said to me "Once a friend always a friend" and to this I said "so do you just want to be friends?" he jumped in with a big "NO". I've asked him will I see him again, he says yes.
When I text him sometimes he replies , sometimes he does not.
Last week I got fed up with waiting and I said in a text that I was very discouraged and didn't know what to do at this point and was losing all hope- then all of a sudden a reply from him that said "please don't talk this way I can't talk right now" xx
We talked last thursday on the phone he apologized profusely for not calling me the day before which he had promised he would, why do I keep forgiving him? He was going away yesterday (Monday) for 4 days with his wife and said I promise I will call you before I go, I promise , we will talk. He said we need to get together and talk.
So guess what -- He didn't call (surprise surprise)
I don't understand him, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but this is torture.
Every time I mention walking away or deleting his phone number or just moving on he begs for more time. What is he waiting for? How can he love me if he never sees me. I have also wondered if he is testing me?
Hi dttn - Please don't be offended when I tell you laughed my way all the way through your post. Think of it as a case of, "if I couldn't laugh I might cry". Oh how many times I have already been through what you have described - even right down to the part where, when I suggest that we should part, his reply is always, "NO!!!! Don't even go there", or when I too have been so disappointed that I say, "I really was starting to think that I'd seen the last of you" and he always replies, "I'm NEVER going to let that happen", or the days that we have planned to get together and I receive a message that always starts with, "hun please, PLEASE don't be mad at me but...." and something else more pressing has come up.
As I approach seven months involved with my Virgo (my how time flies when you're not having fun, lol) I'm starting to understand that some of this will always be there as long as he is married (although I'm betting some of it will be there even when he's not). If you read the additional posts from folks on this thread, they only confirm: a Virgo who feels "needed" and of "service" will not budge until the job is done. My only optimistic aspect is that my Virgo had a plan for the end of his marriage before he ever met me. Virgo's being the organizers and planners that they are, I have some confidence that there actually could be a light at the end of the tunnel...if I can endure that long. It's not easy to be sure. You do not say in your post, but does your Virgo have children? If not, it's hard to say why he's stalling. There has to be some sort of "unfinished business" there. Think about it and see if you can discern anything. It won't change anything, but sometimes understanding brings patience.
Why do you forgive him? Because there is something so authentic in Virgo's, it's hard not to believe them. Sure, I've read all the posts here that say that's because they're mental and manipulative, but I have zero, I mean absolutely zero, sense of that when I'm with my Virgo he is insincere. I can imagine on it infinitely, make myself feel really awful about it, almost making myself believe it...until I look him in the eye and it's just not there. But realize too, that Virgo's are hermit-like creatures, they need space, probably some more than others. I am learning over time that if I don't hear right back from my Virgo it doesn't mean anything at all as far as our relationship is concerned, he was simply busy with something else or needed mental "space". Now sure, by most standards that seems really insensitive and rude, but that appears to be part of the Virgo nature. They'll just do it anyway, lol. I grow more and more convinced that indeed, it's nothing I should fret about. My Virgo wanders back when he's ready, usually in a very nice frame of mind and things are just fine. (I told him recently that he reminded me of the little bird that had a nest on my kitchen awning - away the little bird would go, to who knows where busily doing whatever little nest-building birds do, coming and going so unpredictably, but at the end of the day it always came home to it's nest.)
Virgo's need to feel free and I know that I can provoke the most negative reaction from mine when I go too far with trying to question him, hold him accountable or push him to any kind of commitment. He doesn't want to be "mothered or smothered". This is particularly challenging for me being a Cancer, and also because I am older than him. Again, by normal standards his behavior sounds awful. Isn't that what relationships are about; accountability, consideration, and a sense of commitment?? Haha, apparently not to my Virgo man. It's ALL about trust. It has taken a lot of pain for me to finally figure out that when he says something once, that's pretty much what he means, and where his feelings sit. He is completely clueless about why I get "riled up" about things, "jump to conclusions and speculate on things aren't even there". Well, because it's so abnormal that's why!!! Lol. It's very hard to imagine anyone's thoughts and feeling sitting solid, like a rock, and not fluctuating like I daresay most of us do...especially with all those voids in the time we communicate or see each other. As I tell him often, "you leave me much time to think and speculate..."
I too have a sense of being tested. It's how he says things, or the things he notices about me and how I take care of myself, my household, my organizational abilities, my values. I think we all do this in any relationship when you think about it, we're weighing it all out, there's just something about my Virgo that seems a good deal more precise and strategized than others. I think i said this in an earlier post, it's like a check-list in his head and I'm being graded. But on a serious note in my specific situation, why shouldn't he look at all those aspects. My Virgo is putting himself at considerable risk being involved with me in the event that he should ever get caught. I suppose that if he's going to wreck his world over a woman, she ought to be a worthy woman. I guess that sounds odd as well, but maybe since you're involved with a Virgo it makes sense to you. It's a practical matter you see.
As for the long gaps between seeing each other, well, I don't think it seems near as long to them as it does to you and I. I think they're just focused on the tasks at hand and really consumed by that. I don't mean to make my guy seem shallow, because the reality is he probably accomplishes more in a day than the average person does in three. Suffice to say, it just keeps him busy.
My final thought has to do with Virgos and perfection. There is imperfection in my Virgo's marriage on a grand scale. She's controlling, stubborn, never satisfied materially, and she's a terrible housekeeper - that may sound trite but to my Virgo it's a serious matter. He literally swept his finger along an end-table the first time he was at my house checking for dust. Gave some excuse for it, but I know he was checking on my standards, lol. He softens a bit when he says about his wife, "I know she tries...I know she doesn't see how she is...doesn't see how her behavior affects others..." but this is immediately followed by "oh well". He's emotionally done. He will fulfill his duties, but he is otherwise done. The "perfect" dream of a wife has been shattered. So here I come along, he says I'm "perfect", and I have to say, I think he's perfect as well. "Yes!" Somehow I actually find perfection among all those little quirks that others would find appallingly rude and insensitive and just plain odd. Perhaps it's my own Virgo ascendent that connects so well with this, lol.
Anyway, you say you've read my posts, then you know I'm in sort of a holding pattern here, not wanting to let things go, but also not getting in so deep that I cause myself extreme hurt. Waiting but not waiting at the same time - keeping myself open to the possibility of finding someone else but knowing that I never want to lose him as a friend or the possibility of there being more. But I'm the first one to tell you, that's not going to be easy. Being with my Virgo just feels "right", I have no other word to describe it. Even when he tells me he loves me, which he's only done on a couple of occasions, and in a back-door kind of way (I saw that as a test too, to see if I'd say it back) it still doesn't speak the volumes about our relationship when he says, "being with you just feels right". (And I'm assuming that the fact that he's said he loves me twice is quite enough for now, I'm just supposed to know it now, lol. I can easily accept this because I heard my husband tell me everyday for 13 years he loved me and I'm pretty sure it was only heartfelt for about the first year. Words....just empty words.)
I suppose I have not helped you one bit in all of this dttn, but perhaps there's comfort in comiserating, lol. If i can be of any more "help" let me know, I'm here for ya!
dttn last edited by
Oh Jen thank you so much for posting a reply. It feels good to communicate with someone who can understand what I'm feeling. These two sound like clones of each other.
I will tell you a little more about my Virgo. Yes he does have children they are 20 and 17, he is Italian (very family oriented) and been married for 23 years. His wife is also a Virgo, I am a Capricorn. I know exactly what you mean when you say they are authentic but I can't understand why he isn't aware of the time that passes. When I told him we hadn't seen each other since February he said are you sure? I always seem to be the one to contact him and he will respond saying how he was going to call and how I beat him to it.
I can't call him but do occasionally text to see if he is available to talk.
I'm not sure how old you are Jen but I am 50 and he is 48. He is not happy , he has told me this. I would even say that his wife can be verbally abusive.
He works 2 jobs so yes he is one of those hardworking Virgos as most are.
He has told me that some years ago he lacked confidence and was very shy, I remember him being shocked that I would want to be with him he would often say when we were talking "Why me" as if to say I could do so much better. He is really a beautiful soul and I feel that we could have so much together. Why does he panic when i say i should walk away. As I said in my earlier post we have not even had relations. He told me awhile back that he had a difficult time with that and that he has never been with anyone but his wife since he married although he wanted to be with me. I really think he struggles with this concept and I have never met anyone like him.
You said in your post about normal relationships being about consideration , accountability etc and I agree but not with Virgo. Its almost like he has made the commitment to me but I just don't know it, he's way ahead of me in this relationship (well I wish he would fill me in as to where we are). Do you ever feel like the relationship was not able to evolve normally?
Just as we were starting to really connect and get to know each other his wife suspected something and came home with his phone bill hi-lighted asking whose number this was. It was mine. He pulled back at that point and is very careful not to call often.
I'm waiting for him to come home at the end of the week and see if he calls. I have a hard time not texting him. I tell myself not to but then my mind starts thinking crazy thoughts or i get angry or worry i will never hear from him again and then I text him. I've promised myself not to this week.
He said he would call before he left and didn't so I need to wait and see what happens. Thats the hard part "waiting" . My fear is that he won't and I will text. I'm glad you are there for me. Thanks Jen. You seem to be a little further along than i am and seem to have accepted your virgos ways.
Clones indeed!! I love what you say about yours being one step ahead of you. I thought I was always just on the fringe of my Virgo's thoughts when he stunned me by simply saying, "well my plan is that we are going to be together....down the road, lame as I know that sounds". Not only was I on his mind, he had a future mapped out? I don't know when he thought he was going to tell me, lol, and it just came out casually in passing in conversation. I'm falling out of my chair and he was as blase about it as if he were saying "nice day today wasn't it?" Lol.
You know I recently had quite a conflict with mine over the fact that he was married. I'm so disturbed by participating in the obvious web of lies and deception that are required in his world that allow him to see me. It led to a very intense discussion over what was the "truth" in our relationship and what was just perhaps his "fantasy" (in reading the latest "thread" All things Virgo", I wonder if Virgo's fantasize about anything? Lol - they all seem very grounded in truth - go read it) and ultimately the question of "should I be involved in any of this with him - how do I answer to myself and to God over it?" (I can get a little deep, it's just my way.)
His solution? He said, "if you would quit trying to rise above me for a change, and trying to come up with all the answers, and just let me lead - and support me - things will be just fine". He said there were "too many chiefs" in our situation. Told me to "get on board or get off". (Ouch!!)
So I thought about this for a couple of days, and sent him a note saying, "Ok 'Chief', we'll try it your way. Your one caveat is that "following" is not my natural state, but I am open to trying things a different way". (I am very independent by nature, and very much by necessity right now, being a single mom of three sons). I added, "we've come this far together...you take it from here".
Then I dropped off the map. No calls, no text, no IM, no e-mails. If he's going to be the leader then I figured it was up to him to take a direction. Heard from him out of the blue yesterday saying, "What days are you free this week I'd love to see you". Yeeesh, last week I'm thinking I was on the verge of never seeing him again and this week he'd "love to see me". But here's the thing - he spelled out what he wanted between us - he wants to feel in control - and I'm learning to take my Virgo quite literally. He wants to be in charge, he thinks he knows what's best for both of us, well, then I'm just going to let him. I mean if I love and trust the man, it should be okay and I would think he might even take greater responsibility for making sure that I'm "taken care of" so to speak. To be honest there have been many occasions when he has pointed out weaknesses in my attitude or behavior and you know what? He's actually been right. I don't know anyone, even my closest friends who could have said some of the things he's said to me and gotten away with it, but somehow it seems alright and even constructive coming from him. It's the wierdest thing.
But as far as our relationship evolving "normally"? OMG no! I've told him many times that I never in my life expected to be in such a place in a relationship, it challenges me on more levels than I can even list, and half the time I tell myself I must be crazy. But since he doesn't seem to think there's one little thing wrong with our "evolution"...well...to be honest his attitude really just mucks me up more, lol. I'm finding that his version of where we are and where we are going has to be appreciated at almost an "existentialist" level right now. That I have to ignore all extenuationg circumstances at this time and see only what we have between us, and believe that that is abiding and that we will get where we want to go...in due time. Argh! (My assumption now being that he will lead us there, lol.)
I won't even discuss the part in your post about the "waiting" and holding back on your impulse to contact him. All I will say is "I know" and I trust you know what I mean by that. I will also say again, that "yes", I truly think these guys are oblivious to the passage of time, they are so caught up in their daily responsibilites. There's no easy answer for that one, and it is a characteristic that I think will always be there with my guy no matter where our relationship goes.
I very much appreciate what you're saying too about your guy seeming surprised that you even want him. I really am to the point of having to believe that if our Virgo guys didn't sincerely feel something for us, they wouldn't still be around. (You've been involved for the same amount of time as me...we appear to be in a parallel universe on this one, haha.) What I do know about mine is that he does thrive on my compliments and he absolutely beams when he comes over and I'm as excited as a little kid just seeing him, lol. I'm starting to realize that there is no limit to the amount of positive attention and compliments you can lavish on these guys. Mine accepts it humbly, but I know it's hitting on a deep level because when I actually make an effort to get over my overwhelming Cancer insecurities and anxieties and abandonment fears and quit looking for him to prop me up - if I give a little back for a change - that's when I more often get a little text or IM that just says "I'm thinking about you" or "I miss u". A simple case of you get what you give I guess, but you know us Cancers...sometimes so blinded by our own neediness and possesiveness. I'm very much learning lessons on how to be more giving in all of this.
So I guess if I have any suggestion for right now, it's to really try to make this man feel good about himself and consequently good about what he gets from you. My guy also has a very demanding and controlling wife. I am only just starting to see how some of the reactions I've gotten from him in the past are probably a result of the constant defensive mode he's in at home. It's an automatic reaction. I've certainly put my guy through some challenges as well, but my gosh, you read my posts, we've travelled through some incredibly bizarre and emotional territory in a very short period of time. I don't know how I've even made it this far with him considering some of the lies he was living when I met him - lies he was telling me. He even had a fake name for crying out loud!
I've made every effort to shoot holes in his "story" of what he's doing with me at this point (i.e. is he using me) and have "ended" things with him on a couple of occasions (admittedly mostly out of my own fears that we won't really go anywhere and I'd rather bail out now rather than get hurt more deeply later). By all rights he should be hugely defensive with me or just have run off by now. I have been a huge pain.
But look at this, he's still here and even wants to take things forward. I almost think there's something in him that admires that I stand up for myself and my values, even if it means sacrificing him in the process. I suppose in a twisted way it suggests that if I am with him it's by choice and not because I want to use him in any way or want anything from him other than loving him for who he is. Contrast this to his wife who apparently finds fault with everything he does and nothing is never enough or good enough. She just keeps demanding and giving nothing in return. Not even a "thank you" for all his hard work (and he is a hard working man). You can see where a Virgo might actually start believing some of that stuff if they're told it enough; Virgo's often being so self-critical themselves. Convince him that he's more than that. I've told my guy how much I absolutely adore him, how incredibly intelligent and perceptive he is, how amazed I am at all the responsibilities he juggles, how impressed I am that he can deal with me, hahah, and even how mystified I am over that "inexplicable something" I feel about him that truly defies words or logic. I'm not playing a game or manipulating, it IS how I feel. Nothing impresses my Virgo more than speaking from the heart. In fact he's outright said it; he's rarely listening to what people say from their minds, he's only really listening to what's in their hearts (I honestly think he pretty much sizes up most people's minds and any pretense in a flash - he is very perceptive). Probably why we're still together then, because I hold very little back from him, my heart is an open book because I feel that I need to be that way. I don't want there to be any lies with us, he's got enough lies operating in his world right now as it is and I need to be free of emotional complications because I have enough stresses in my life. I want all my thoughts - good or bad - about what goes on between us out in the light. The day he starts feeling like he has to lie to me is the day I want out - although I will continue to say it, I would always want him for my friend. There's no one I've ever known like him.
So yeah, I think if I have any advice for you at this time it's to do your best to get over what you need and think about what your Virgo most needs from you at this time. Be a "safe" place for him and I think he may start finding more reasons to want to contact you. Unconditional love and acceptance is a very appealing and enticing thing for anyone, but I would think especially if he's living in a world where he doesn't get that. Yep, it's a tough road for you and only you can decide when you've had enough. I consider my attitude towards my Virgo and our relationship very much a work in progress. I'll remind you also that Virgos take their good sweet time about things. I wouldn't expect mine, or yours, to budge an inch until he's good and ready to. How long will that take.......................?
Now, seriously, if you wanted to I would be glad to start a thread just for "Jen and dttn's Support Team", lol. Anytime you feel yourself on the verge of breaking down when you're gut is telling you not to contact him, you just write about it to me instead. You're gut is probably right, but I know exactly how it is and ultimately I always break down and contact mine, but I do have a couple of friends who at least talk me out of it for a few additional days. I will do my best to lecture you and keep you occupied to kill a couple of extra days. There's never been any negative consequence over how often I message my Virgo (other than he won't reply until he's ready to anyhow, which could be days later), but I find that I am happier when he contacts me without any prompts.
I also do believe that he IS thinking of me more often than he ever contacts me. He assures me that he's thinking about me always. Not saying much depending on what you want out of a relationship I guess, but here we go back to what's normal. "Nothing" seems to be the answer in either one of our situations. I don't know about you, but somehow there's still something going on that makes "normal" still not feel as good as what I feel with my Virgo. I could go off and find a picture-perfect relationship and I already KNOW it's going to be missing that one, inexplicable little something that Virgo and I have together. That thing that feels just "right".
Ok, that's my two-cents for right now. You contact me any time even if it's just to rehash the same issue. Trust me girlfriend, there is a lot to get your head around with these two guys. I keep trodding over the same territory with mine. We take one step forward and I drag it two steps back, lol, kind of like, "tell me again what you meant by that?" (i.e. MAKE me feel secure in all this....argh, I AM such a Cancer, lol.) Love chatting with you, keep me posted! Oh, I am 49 btw, and suffice to say that my Virgo is younger, lol.
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Dttn, and Jenever7, I have to say that I also am interested in a virgo man who is a clone to both of yours. Believe it or not, he is identical in every factor from being unhappily married, having 4 children, he is younger than me, and we met at work, to every detail u have enlisted. He seems cold at times, and always seems so unavailable. At times he would invite me to come to his new existing job for coffee, only to let me down once I travelled through horrific weather to see him, and arrive at his work. Once there he would claim he was too busy. Many times I would leave broken hearted, as usual I was always forgiving of him for something, on a daily basis. It seemed to be a part of our daily relationship that I was always so accommodating to him, yet I never really had him compromise on my behalf. I am 35 and he is 30, we are both married. We worked together for 2 years. I don't have any children as of yet, he has now 4, when we met he had 2. Apparently HE only wanted 2 but I can only guess as to why he now has 4.
I never thought I would even stray from my relationship with my husband, as we have been together for 20 years, yes I was 15 when I met him. Who would have thought that a 15 year old was ready for marriage. I grew up in a horrible family unit being abused and felt no other escape except to move in with my boyfriend just to get away from it all. I barely even knew myself yet I continued to make mistakes throughout my life just to please other people in my life, and also because of the fear of the unknown. I am a Leo, but I am not egotistical, I am more of a nurturer. Family is everything to me, and learning what I know now by growing up in an abusive home, I swore I would never create children for the wrong reasons. That, I managed not to screw up. I wasn't even looking for anyone when this virgo man struck me from a distance. It was like love at first sight, yet I hadn't even seen him up close. I never believed in love at first sight, well needless to say, I do now. I knew I was in trouble when I saw him. Electricity threw me on the floor.
So I go up to him after 3 months and lay my feelings for him on the line, that's me, I say it as it is. Besides who has all the time in the world to wait, possibly to find out a year from now that the person isn't interested, right? So I tell him, only to find out that he is married, then he makes this weird comment, it went like this; "I'm married, but how much do u like me?" What the ****? "I thought I just told u how I felt;" (I thought to myself). Why would he even ask me that if he was playing the virgin purity role by stating the "married" part of his reply first? I was lost for words. After that he continually flirted ALL day with me. Staring at me from a distance for prolong periods, trying to make eye contact, coming by my department when he didn't need to, showing me when he was going on lunch, coming by every morning to say goodmorning, and how was I doing? Of course, I was enjoying every minute. What bugged me the most was that he would never "grow the balls" and come straight out to tell me what he was expecting. He would always say or do things in a-round about way. I am not one who appreciates subtle hints, just say it! He was such a tease but the minute his shift at work was over, it was like I never really existed, he would never come by and say goodnight or goodbye. It was his family man face and persona that came out then. He once had one of his friends ask me if I would just have a one night stand. I told him that I wasn't that kinda woman. That if he wanted me, he would have to at least go out with me so I could get to know him and his heart. His friend stated that this would never happen. I didn't think I was asking too much. I even went so far and asked him one time how his valentine's night went with his wife? Did they have a nice romantic night together? He stated, I quote;"Wife, what wife, it's all about the kids." Obviously no romance there. I am BIG on romance. I don't think he even had it in him. Everything was always so discreet at work and for good reasons, I wanted to give him his space and respect. I always felt it was such a head game to deal with him, because he would never give me anything real it seemed. He even went so far one night to tell me with his EYES, not words, for he was speaking to someone else but glaring at me when he sayed he would be staying really late one night. In otherwords, hint, hint. I went home, and he watched me leave from the window upstairs. (Ha, Ha) I'm not that easy buddy, although every fibre of me wanted too stay, my dignity told me to go home. He even ignored me the next day. WOW, how mature! It's when he would try to get me jealous by flirting with another woman, that I felt was hurtful, but once again I endured for his sake.
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I have more however, I will post it later I'm tired, haven;t slept yet
Messanger - Wow, what a game you guys have going. I have some thoughts for you, but will wait until you finish your story - which I also thank you for sharing!