The heart of a Virgo man
Hi Ladies, to be honest I rarely check the thread anymore. I feel I've spent enough time trying to solve the mystery of the Virgo psyche and indulging much more brain or emotional space to it is unhealthy for me. I have actually been involved with group counseling the past two months focusing on me and taking a look at my family and relationship history to come to terms with how I keep putting myself in situations with emotionally unavailable people, not just men, but I see it with people in general. So you made a comment Pisces1803 that I think is important, and that is your observation that a person is not wholly influenced by their birth signs. I really, really believe that you will help yourself best if you believe in that observation.
I still deal with my Virgo. It's still a very rocky road and I honestly don't know where things will end up between us. But as I subdue the emotions, what I see motivating him most is his past history. The truth is, that is the core of what motivates all of us and unless you pay attention to what compels you to want to deal with an emotionally unavailable man, you will suffer trying to figure out how to be what he needs. I have concluded that even if I do understand why emotionally unavailable men are detached, that won't result in a solution to the problem of how to have a healthy relationship with them. You can't. Not unless, and until, they want to have that with you - or anyone. I believe deep down that is what they want. It is what we all want. I believe that is what I see with my Virgo. I have deep empathy for the "better self" that lies within him. But what I also see is that there are deep trust and fear issues that hold him back. And the reality is that he can easily trigger trust and fear issues that I harbor from my own past - and there the misery begins because now his demons have triggered a whole cycle of my own demons. It is a strange game of finding relief and safety in each other and then turning right around and destroying it. What has come to be known in the thread as the "yo-yo effect". But realize that the yo-yo has two sides. You and he will make the yo-yo spin. You don't have to play yo-yo with him.
So Pisces1803, as a fellow water-sign prone to seeing past the surface issues to the emotions, I would just caution you to think about the same realization that I have come to, and that is, no matter how well you connect to someone's "true self" it is their "false self" that rules in these matters. The energy that your guy puts into keeping himself "protected" for whatever reason from the world and from truly connecting with you emotionally - this is what you must take as reality. This is the most that he will offer you unless he, himself, wants to release more of his "true self" into his life. The day could come that he will trust you and feel "safe" enough to give you that, but I am here to tell you that this could take years. It took years of life for him to get the way he is and that is not going to be undone easily. The price for you to try will be supporting him without getting love and nurturing for yourself.
Are you capable of complete unconditional love with no expectation of any nourisment to your emotional self from him? If so, then join his party. But unless you are quite good at loving and nurturing yourself, without a need to feel that in a relationship, you will suffer. Although, maybe like some here, the experience of trying to "survive" this kind of relationship will bring you a different understanding of what you want for yourself and you will move on to find that.
I can't say that being a Virgo has anything to do with this, because what I now believe is that the patterns of emotional unavailability are more predictable than any astrological aspects of a person. Those of us who tolerate emotional unavailability have our patterns too. And indeed, it does come from our past histories. People in general are not born with a desire to fear and reject love and intimacy - experiences in life make people that way. You might want to investigate those characteristics, as well as why you are drawn to them, rather than pinning this off on the idea that he is a Virgo.
The Virgo men represented here are "worst case scenario's", keep that in mind. Women in happy relationships with Virgo's aren't showing up on the Tarot.com threads. I'm not saying that I don't see some common traits among astrological signs, because I actually do, but the relationship dynamics that come up in this thread are more based in general human conditioning and behaviors in my opinion. And no, before anybody out there thinks they need to point it out, I am not a Psychologist, but these days you don't have to research very far to investigate the dynamics of dysfunctional relationships and you don't have to hold a PhD to understand how those dynamics might operate in your own life.
So just be careful Pisces1803 - it is just so easy to get drawn into his needs and forget about your own. Just the time I see you spending contemplating why he doesn't respond to your text makes me worry for you. The simple reason that he doesn't respond is because he doesn't want to. And that has nothing at all to do with you - that is him. Assuming that you both get along well and the time you spend together is happy time, then you must see that it is him who is refusing to let anything grow between you, not you. The second that you start thinking that his "wall of resistance" has anything to do with you or that you can change that, then you should let him go. Because it can mean only one of two things: he really doesn't want more with you, or he is incapable of having more with you. This is particularly hard when you can sense that you do have a great underlying connection. Hard to give that up, but he has to have the courage to want that for himself too.
Libralui - I loved your comment about how the thread led you to peace. I've had thoughts that my time here was somewhat pointless in the end. Even thought that if I could delete the thread I probably would, rather than have anyone misled into thinking that there is really any solution to dealing with the men described here. But you reminded me that it wasn't. Pointless in resolving these guys maybe, but certainly not pointless in finding resolution for ourselves. There is a lot of wisdom here from women who have the kind of strength that some of us need to learn from. You sound like you are doing very well and I'm glad for that! Sending you a big hug.
My last post is not showing up since it started a new page - an annoying quirk of this site. Just adding this post in an attempt to make it visible.
Hi Jenever, So nice to hear from you...it is hard to lose track of people we have all poured our hearts to for so long!
Your comments were very, very insightful... I am also one of those women who has always been drawn to unavailable men....either emotionally or otherwise. I have come to catch myself now and understand what I am doing and it has helped. I really do want a LTR and am working towards finding a guy who wants that too....I know if it is what is meant to be, it will happen. I am dating a Leo guy now who made it clear from the beginning with words and actions that he will never commit to anyone, he just likes being single. I enjoy being with him and I have let go of all expectations and outcome and just am enjoying the relationship....it has been a really great thing for me to let go of trying to change someone's mind or manipulate them into wanting more than they do. I continue to leave myself open to meeting someone else, someone who wants what I do, and when that happens, I will walk away from Leo with good memories instead of bitterness and anger!!
Your comments to Pisces about her guy not returning her texts because he didn't WANT to is soooo insightful and true. Why do we women try and make excuses, find reasons, rationalize rude behavior from men? Are our expectations so low that we feel it is all we deserve? This guy is showing Pisces who he is and where she stands in his life......Pisces1803, you need to listen!!! A man, any man, who was truly interested and cared about you would not EVER act like this!!! He is inconsiderate of your feelings and is playing games. Game playing should never have to be part of a healthy relationship.
Jenever....hope you keep "checking in" from time to time....hugs back to you!! xxoo
Ladies, please always remember that you want other people to treat you the same way you would treat them. If a male or female is not returning phone calls or texts you've sent it is because they're busy with other things more important and not interested... We ALL know this to be true! Spend your beautiful energy on more important things like yourself, your family and/or great friends.
Sending hugs to all newbies and oldies!
Thank you so much for your concern. Honestly, I am keeping my options open and my life does not revolve around him , I got my friends, family and my beautiful dog to keep me grounded and real and currently dating other guys (real not by virtual communication ;-). Currently dating a cancerian and piscean who at this stage probably has more ticks going for them than Mr Virgo ;-). So lots of options and opportunities available so I am having a little fun and letting my hair down and always at the end of the day understand first and foremost that you have to love yourself and learn to put yourself first regardless (that's the selfishness in me ;-))
If all else fails, I know that there is one thing in life that will love me more even with all my flaws and that's my beautiful dog as he is forever unconditional in his love and devotion...xoxo
ABB, well said !
Pisces, knowing how to put yourself first is not selfishness, but a healthy instinct of self preservation. Dogs know it too, by the way, much as they love us and are unconditionally devoted to us. It's a divine right that nature gives all of us. Unfortunately, as a result of some errors in our upbringing, often people lose touch the gift of self love, which is rightfully ours.
So, it's good and healthy that you are putting your needs first and are having fun dating other men.
Update on M
Sorry, fat fingers ;-).
Okay ladies or any Virgo's who wants to weigh in and interpret what this Virgo is trying to tell me by calling me his fiancée? I was going to pick him up on it and tell him off but am thinking it through before formulating a response as I don't want to hurt his feelings or bruise his fragile ego ;-D
Virgo>Same body as me. I hope I see you in the cold so I can cuddle you in your room! TRUE!!!
Me> >Scary…major turn off ;-P. True! (Talking about a picture of a male body builder)
That’s not nice that you want to see me in the cold.
PS. Job’s already taken... see below (Picture of me cuddling the dog)
PPS. If I was in my room I wouldn’t be cold, so no cuddles required
PPPS. If you really want to cuddle me you shouldn’t need an excuse to do it…..Just like the Nike saying “Just do it”. Actions speaks louder than words
Virgo> I will do it! No excuses. I TRULLY miss u. I still want you in my life!
Hey I just showed your photo to a girl at work. Told her you were my fiancée.
She says that you look like that you put Botox into your cheeks.
Me>> ;-)) That’s funny.. I’m Asian, we all have high cheekbones. I’m just blessed genetically, what can I say? shrugs my mum’s and dad’s cheekbones are the same….Sorry to disappoint her. My features are 100% natural. I don’t think I can smile if I have botox.. (it’s supposed to freeze your expression!). Not to mention I don’t like needles. Bad enough having flu shots. But you can thank her for me, that’s a compliment ;-D
Virgo>Yes I see it as a compliment.You are mine!!!
OMG! Pisces 1803 I say RUN and run away fast from this guy. He sounds like a carbon copy of the Virgo I dated for a year, not good. Mine kept me hooked because nothing is more addictive than being hanging by a thread. This guy was one way one day, the total opposite the next. He was full of tricks and he eventually got me and once he did it was painful slow removal for months!! I look back and see now what a master manipulator he was. Smooth with his words, his actions followed that in the beginning and then it was one excuse after another and drama, drama, drama! He was a narcissist who only cared about his own little world, the gym (he was in there everyday for two hours) and guess what? I came to find out HE was getting botox! he was a master at mimicking what you wanted to hear..
What is sad is that I like you, thought I had him wrapped around my finger. I was also dating other guys, etc. Beware, these guys are very clever because they play the very thing you are looking for. If you call them out they know how to play that too, and do the humble sorry thing as well. I think your is already showing red flags of being a fake...just run away if you can. Not worth your time.
mardepp hit the nail right on the head....this guy is a manipulator....and I suspect a narcissist....hopefully you won't waste anymore time on him. He is trying to make you feel like he is into you but in reality, he is only into himself and feeding his own ego. It is important to him to believe he has you on standby and that you are emotionally attached....he doesn't care about you or your feelings....just his own ego. Run. Your time and energy are being wasted.
Well Pisces1803 - I could see most of this interaction as playful chit-chat but the line that changes it to a game is: "Hey I just showed your photo to a girl at work. Told her you were my fiancée. She says that you look like that you put Botox into your cheeks."
If I were you, and if I were actually interested in allowing this to continue any further, I think I'd want to know why he is inviting coworkers to critique your photo. I'd want to know who is this coworker that he felt he needed to show her your picture (he may be using you to make her jealous or maybe he did it to make you jealous and probably he would be in heaven if he thought he could make you BOTH jealous, but realize that there is always the possibility that he never did it at all, but simply made it all up to mess with your head). Adding the part about her saying you look like you use Botox seems very specifically intended to provoke you. In case you can't see it, that really wasn't a nice thing to say to you. Would you do something like that to a friend? Show their photo around and then come back and share the criticisms with them? He's actually taking a dig at your self-esteem. Which probably means his self-esteem is cr_ap if he seeks to damage yours.
Pisces1803, I would think seriously about what the other ladies have said here. He lives out of state, long distance relationships are challenge enough and can only survive with deep trust and some kind of genuine commitment. You have neither. You were initially concerned because of his erratic communications and then when he does communicate this is what he has to offer? Do you really need this in your life? And yes I am still concerned for you despite what you said about being "grounded". You've talked to tarot readers and empaths and now you analyze him here. If you can stay immune to this emotionally and want to observe him like a psychology subject that's one thing, but you have been cautioned by those with experience where this can get you. I think he may already have more of a hold on you than you realize.
Thanks Voply Soply for your response. I fully agree with your comments about self love. I think that is extremely important (Might either be the Virgo or Aries in me ;-).
Mardepp - thanks for your advice, truly I am not hanging on to what he said but I guess what I 'm trying to say is I don't want him to think that he can get away with telling people that I am his fiancee when I am not. I don't want to disappoint him or give him a false impression that I see something more than what we have at present (long distance relationship of sort and we'll see if it develops into anything more that's if he comes and see me like he said.. I'm not holding my breath) LOL. As when we first meet late last year and he was talking about marriage and kids during our first date, I said to him that I have no intention of getting married nor having any kids in my future currently and that hasn't change. ..it hasn't scared him off either
I just want to getout and have fun and go out and date. I've spent too much of my life conforming to what my nearest and dearest is telling me that I should be doing and forgetting at the end of the day it's my life. I thought I want another long term relationship but on second thoughts realise through it all that I haven't had a chance to let down my hair and have fun!! This is why going into 2013, my goal was to go out and do things I said I would do but never did due to other commitments but having said that wants to keep my options open in case I do finally meet the man that I am willing to settle down with who can offer me everything I need (that's alot!! ;-))
But like I said, I have no intentions of hurting anyone nor mislead anyone either and after having been on this thread and realise that some Virgo's are quite sensitiv, I want to be sure that I am not approaching this the wrong way just in case......
Those Angels better be appearing sometime soon to give me help or assistance in getting the divine love that I need ;-D
ok, Pisces 1803, good luck. All of us at one point or another were where you are now, having fun and holding the reigns. The problem with this guy and I already see it, is that he already got his foot in...like Jenever said, he already has more of a hold on you than you can admit. The very reason that you are still communicating shows that. Believe me, we were all there once. We all thought we were special and smart and we were dealing with things the right way...What he is already doing with those exchanges with you is "training" you to expect less and less some day and damage your self esteem in the process. The Virgo I was seeing was a knight in shining armor for the first three months. "Finally" I thought to myself. He did not miss anything, he was on top of everything. Treated me like a queen, always showed up, never left me hanging, always called, etc. Talked and pushed for a relationship, talked future, marriage all of those things and then....oh, oh he started backing off. Mind you he did everything, the fantasizing and then the tearing it down. I was just an observer. The problem is the roller coaster of emotions they put you through, just not worth it. He is so self centered that I just feel sorry for him. If he has not learned that by now in his 50's I doubt that he will. I was reflecting on it the other day as how damaging a person he has been to me on so many levels. This one was dangerous because every move was planned out to the T.
I hope for you sake yours is different, but I doubt it, he is already exhibiting all the behavior and display of a true commitment phobic person. I agree with Jenever about the picture comment. A joke is not a joke if it is demeaning someone else. In my opinion he got you already if you are willing to meet up with him again. But experiences are not transferable so you will do what you will do even if we here see it. And if you need us we are here...
Thanks again for all your concerns. But if that was Mr Virgo's way of criticising or lowering my self esteem...I guess it backfired as I took the Botox comment as a compliment :-P. I mean people (especially celebrities) are paying good money to have these Botox injections and lucky old me has these natural 'Botox' looking cheeks...Seriously I actually find the Botox comment quite funny...... Well it made my day yesterday... Better than fat cheeks..LOL... Sorry if I offend anyone with my twisted sense of humor :-))
Denial is a scary place to be. The botox comment was most definitely meant to tear you down, and by you choosing to stay around for more, no matter how you handled it, says a lot. He is not "sensitive"....if he were, he would not have made that comment.
Have a great weekend ladies....it is has been so nice seeing a few of you back on the thread and reconnecting!!
Pisces, be careful, this guy is definitely a manipulator. Ladies here can spot it immediately because we've all have already encountered exactly the same Virgo pattern. Even if you took this bottox comment as a compliment, that was not his intention. The intention here was clearly to arouse your insecurities, jealousy (by asking yourself what on earth does the coworker have to do with anything), to give you hopes, without saying anything concrete ( using the "magic" fiancee word). In fact he is trying to make two women (you and the co-worker) fight for him, even if virtually, and is playing you against each other. From that you can already tell what the real relationship with him would be like. Plus the fact that he apparently wants to see you "freezing in the cold", so that he could look "ggod", being your "rescuer" - these are all warning signs ! And of course, body building activities definitely indicate a high degree of narcissism, and actually insecurity, which he will most likely try to project onto you.
Good luck Pisces, I can't add anything more to this myself.
Mardepp and VS - Amen.
Libraluli - nice reconnecting with you too. Hope those of you who celebrate Easter have a wonderful holiday.
Have a great Easter everyone and stay safe and possibly away from the chocolate as much as you possibly can. LOL.. You know the saying... something about the lips and lifetime on the hips ;-P.
Thought about all the wonderful ladies I met through this site today and am wishing the best of luck to each and everyone of you!