The heart of a Virgo man



  • I'm not very good with this, but I dont mind sharing the little that I have learned

    Keepingitsimple we tend to identify ourselves with the people whose sun is on our ascendant(rising), I believe. For that reason we are attracted to them.

    I think that's why I've been attracted to scorpios before... arghhhhh they're so destructive... but I've learned they can only sting if I let them get close. If they're not close enough, they'll try to sting and I'll just laugh at their attempts.

    But this led me to learn that what I really want is someone who's sure of what they want, and I want them to be sure that it's me that they want!(probably related to taurus desc :P)!

    I've been told before that the Rising sign is what you appear to be, to others, and that the Descendant(opposite the rising sign) is what you look for in others.

    Also, there's other things that influence what you're attracted to.... i dont know for sure about women, but for men I think asteroid Juno is important.

    Not sure how venus and mars come into the equation... as I said, I have still only learned very little.

    Hope this helps!

    David



  • Thank you Hidden Diamond (David) for your insight in that I know you are a Virgo sun and have read your own story in this thread. I actually now truly understand why I have so much Virgo influences in my life and always have. I saw them as external forces when, in fact, it is the Virgo in my own personality that draws and attracts same. It explains why my feelings for them more than any other sign aside from Gemini. Definitely an eyeopener.



  • Jenever you are so right about the measures my Virgo (it feels strange to call him mine) is going through to avoid me and what such behavior really means. Funny, but I honestly hadn't viewed his actions in this way until you mentioned it. And yes...I can admit that the slope for me is still slippery indeed. Case in point...this evenning when I came home I logged onto th.e board we met on to check my messages thinking he would not be there given his pattern of the last few days. To my surprise he was there. Of course he was already chatting away with whomever and never once acknowledged my presence as was the intent and purpose (he is still trying to "punish" me by doing same to him. The interesting thing though is that he knows I am not prone to barge in on his conversations with others and yet I know he knew I was there and was hoping I would, again, so he could exact his "revenge" by shunning me. LOL Oh the mind games. I of course, played along with him staying on the board and chatting with others as was he like I didn't know he was there either until he finally gave up the charade and left the board (likely to head off to work). I'm sure the intent was to teach me a lesson but it only affirmed what you already stated because when this has happened before he has always gotten off the board soon after I have logged on and yet this time he stayed on longer to purposely prove his point. I outlasted him though and he likely won't appear again until he knows I am in bed and he doesn't have to worry about my presence as he goes about keeping his "options open" games that he has been playing 6-7 months before we even met. This is the behavior that bothered me the most the last few weeks but now that I have caught on all I can do is laugh. It also is amusing given the insight into my own Virgo nature I discovered today and how easily I can adapt to same when it comes to cat and mouse thing between us. I can't deny that I get a perverse thrill doing unto others so to speak even knowing that he doesn't like me playing his game his way. I know I know...I brought on a headache with my own actions here (quite possibly a migraine LOL) but I couldn't resist. And therein lies the very problem you have warned me about. The real test will come should we stop dancing around one another and contact is initated by him. I honestly don't know if I will be strong or fall into the trap. We shall see. I will say that knowing I am affecting him in this way does have its own adrenaline rush to be sure. I can be such a masochist sometimes. LOL I'll keep you posted.



  • Jenever, I saw my Virgo. Yesterday I send him a text, said I'm sorry I let you saw me vulnerable... He reply I'm sorry too, So I asked him if he can come to me, to place where I work. He said I'll be there. And I saw him today... We talked and talked. What he said was very rough... He said to me that I'm not his wife, so i can't talk to him like that and that we can't have a conversation like this... I asked him Why didn't you text me or contact me for month? He said that for him is better that i take all the responsibility and all the guilt! That he blame ME for all that happened. That he hadn't a reason to cheat his wife, that he's cheating her only because he liked me a lot. That I am the reason. And that he could't cut himself in two pieces, one for me and other for his family.... All of him goes to his family. He said that his feelings for me are in the same level like a year before, that he frozen them. And that I went to a further level and he can't answer to my needs. And that sending a texts is bothering him. O, I said Well, If you don't have a need to hear from me, or it's bothering you it's ok. We don't need to be together anymore. And he said that I am emotionally and in all other ways one of the most important persons in his life. I said But, you don't have a will to call me or see me? I was so hurt again! And that was enough for me. I told him I can't do it anymore, that I love him too much. He tried to kiss me, but i didn't want that. It would only make things worse. I just hug him, he kissed me in my neck. And asked me when i'll be back. I said That doesn't matter anymore. And that's it. It will be hard but i'll try. I think that he doesn't know what he wants for this moment. And think that he lied for some things. We'll see. I must let him live his life in the way he thinks is the best. Maybe he really loves his wife. O, I write this but i can't see anything of my tears. Hope I'll be ok



  • Leogemini am so sorry to hear about what happened with your Virgo. I hope I am not out of turn since I am not Jenever by saying that putting you in the position to assume all the guilt and responsibility for his behavior as well is crap. You are only accountable for what you have contributed to this union good and bad not his half too and to make you feel this way is just rude. You care about this man and that didn't happen all on its own so you should be entitled to your feelings and own them whether he gets and/or appreciates the depth of them or not. Maybe you shouldn't have gotten all emotional according to him because you "aren't his wife" but then maybe he shouldn't put you in a "wife's" position and expect the same loyalty and patience that a wife is expected to have and give unconditionally as he manipulates and lies, not to you but to himself. You will be okay. Take care.



  • Not out of turn whatsoever Keepingitsimple - everything you said to leogemini is right. We're all here for each other, so jump right in anytime with your comments!

    So, if I've got this right leogemini...he's cheating with you because you are so tempting that he just can't control himself? You bad woman you! Oh my god, please. I can't even believe a grown man would say such a thing. Okay, when he comes back, because I believe he will, you tell him that you are going to take responsibility for yourself. You are going to make sure he stays a good "pure" man and faithful to his wife by making sure he doesn't get involved with you ever again. If he can't control himself YOU will because (throw his own words back at him) his family deserves ALL of him, not him "cut in half". Tell him he is absolutely right. Teeheehee!! Oh man, that will get him where he lives.

    I can't believe one minute he cuts you to your knees with his cold comments and the next he tells you how important you are and the next he wants to know when he's going to see you again. Leogemini - as hard as it may be for you to do this, this is a man who needs to think about himself for a while. Work out some of his confusion. Now I know you love him and all that, but he has gone to far with blaming you for his flaws. You MUST force yourself to put some space between you two for a time. Let him live his life for a while without you so that he learns some appreciation for you. (This may only take a few weeks actually, Virgos are quick thinkers.)Leave him alone for a while with that family that he is pretending to be so devoted to and remember why he strayed from his marriage to begin with. Keepingitsimple is right. He LIES to himself. He is the one who is not happy and he finds happiness in you, but then he treats you badly to soothe his guilt. Let him live with the life he "protects" from you for a while and force him to face his realities and his confusion.

    You try not to hurt too much over this, he has been a total twit! Usually I can find some kind of logic in why a Virgo man would behave certain ways, but this guy is being pointlessly mean to you. Frankly, I think he owes you an apology as well.

    I guess on the bright side, the nice text message worked, lol. Careful what you wish for. (Sorry, the Cancer sense of humor is a little twisted sometimes, it's how we keep from crying. I really am very angry about what he did here and hope that you will stand strong in this.)



  • Keepingitsimple - You crack me up! You little stinker you! Fun and games, eh? Well, I love your honesty anyway. Just remember what happens when you play with fire.....

    Keep me posted please, you make me laugh! (I'm feeling some vindication vicariously through you messing with this guy's head. I will consider how ashamed of myself I should be after I scrape myself off the floor, having just fallen out of my chair from laughing so hard.)



  • Jenever...girl I know...just call me a hot mess! LOL Seriously though, I have felt the pain and confusion along with the depth of the love so many on here have had for these Virgo guys (exception being our own precious little Virgo Hidden Diamond who also feels our pain and whose experiences clearly show not all Virgo men are prone to hurting the ones they claim to love) but I think some of these tears and tales of woe should be balanced out with a little bit of karma as well and that's the perspective I hope I am providing. Do I want to play these childish high school games with a grown man? Of course not. The fact that I lowered myself to do it is also another indicator that my Virgo in question is not worth the time, effort or attention he has gotten out of me thus far. However, the attraction to the person who first presented himself to me still lingers and in that lingering the tinest bit of hope that in the middle of madness he just may surprise me and come to his senses (okay Jen...you can stop laughing now! LOL)

    It felt good to let him know that I am not to be toyed with and that if he wants even a small piece of what we first shared to reappear he may have to cut out the wominizing and come correct. And yes, I am sure the chances of this are slim to none and I am in no way deluding myself that this pattern of behavior will be stopping any time soon even with my own contribution to the head trip games we seem to be caught up in for the moment. But I like being a formidable advesary who counters the games he is no doubt allowed to freely get away with with other women because in my mind it still sets me apart and keeps me "special" even if there is no chance for us to progress beyond this point. Just call it a small victory for all who are on here continuing to put their hearts on the line while these guys do as they please and feel we are to wait for however long until they get it together if ever. Eventually I will get bored with the games and truly move on (that process has already begun with each day that passes and the communication between us remains non-existent on a verbal level even though the non-verbal stuff is in full throttle mode). Until then, I will take my small little victories where I can until I meet someone truly worth investing the deeper part of my heart into. Do I wish it was my Virgo who could be that man? Part of me does but I have to be real with myself or he will have me going like so many others he has caught in his web of self-deception. That's the sad truth of it all. Perhaps I think in some small way that even in knowing me for a brief time may, in fact, have an effect on him that just might be of benefit to another down the line. And just to give you another laugh...when I came home this evening and again logged on to the board, I saw where he had been out of it for the last 12 hours. LOL That tells me that my head games with him this morning affected him to the point that all he could do was take himself to bed and sleep on it. Usually when he wakes up he's back to business as usual but as of the typing of this post he hasn't logged on again and may just wait until he knows I'm in bed since he can dish it out but can't take it. And the game continues and yes I know what happens when you play with fire but luckily this girl is a water sign (wink*wink),

    Leogemini if you read this post as well...you hang in there hun. Know your worth and make him come to you like a man (as much as he is capable of) and don't take his c rap. Like Jenever said...give him a taste of the lack of your awesome away from his life since you need "protecting" and see what that gets you. Take care all. Blessing and Miracles.



  • Jenever I hope the things I said in this thread helped you at least a little, as I noticed I have at least some things in common with your virgo, from your posts.

    Virgo Sun

    Scorpio Rising

    Life Path #4

    Also do you have Virgo rising or moon? I notice your well structured text, just like KeepingItSimple's... and since the women in this thread get along with Virgo men, I think it's safe to assume that there's a pretty decent chance they have Virgo rising or moon. Myself, I sometimes avoid writing ''correctly'', for the sole reason of not coming across as cold.

    KeepingItSimple, my access to intuition is pretty much zero (Captain has told me it's because of a strong self-consciousness, which is the cause of my strong shyness, and which also reduces my psychic awareness), but I like the feeling I get when I read your posts. You must be a very interesting person... I wonder if that virgo guy knows what he's missing out on xD!

    I must say I don't know a lot of Pisces. It's amazing to see your ''fighting style'' in action!

    I respect that. It's rare to see someone who won't back out from a challenge. Especially when it's not even a challenge ''officially''... just a non-verbal one.

    If it was me the one who's played with, my Scorpio ascendant would probably make sure that I would feel something that's like both romantic love, lust and hate at the same time (as always when I'm really attracted to someone)... just a humongous mass of shapeless emotion.

    Regardless of what you may have heard, Virgos have plenty of emotion below the surface! Like underground rivers of lava! How fitting, for a sign ruled by Vulcan.

    I'm not sure what I'd do about it though...

    So I'm VERY curious to see how things unfold. Will he be frightened and slowly(almost unnoticeably slow) let go? Will he just give in and say something(probably more indirectly) ''I'm sorry... but I think I've fallen for you.''? Or will he be able to just avoid being tamed? Or insert other option here?

    Keep us updated please!!

    PS:

    Lately I've learned things about the Virgo duality that no non-virgo could ever understand, I think.

    It's so hidden, even from ourselves... that, when the other side of the coin reveals itself, even we are surprised by it, let alone others! Have you noticed it Jenever? Probably at his age your virgo has already learned to live with the ''other side'', but you must've been surprised by it? (You don't need to reply to this, just reply in your head xD)



  • HiddenDiamond - Hello my friend! You called it - I have Virgo Moon according to the Captain. When I was young an astrologer friend of my mother's said I have a Virgo ascendent. Is that the same thing?

    I only have a minute, it's so late here, but that P.S. of yours. Would this perhaps be like the time I caught Mr. Virgo back on the dating site "playing little boy games as he described it", and I was absolutely beside myself in hurt - not that he would do such a thing (it's how I met him after all) but that he would not have the courtesy to cut me loose BEFORE seeking out someone new. I was so incredibly hurt that he would lie to me after all we'd been through. It was his dishonesty that pained me. He deleted the profile on the spot, then stated something like, "you know, you go along thinking one thing and then reality hits you like a ton of bricks". I think that day he was surprised by how much I did care about him and that he could hurt me so intensly with his actions, but I sensed that he was just as surprised by looking at himself and wondering what he was really doing.

    (Later though, he would claim that he figured I'd catch him on the site, as he assumed that I might be there "checking on him". I'll never know if that's true or he was just so ashamed of himself that he tried to turn the tables on me. Maybe he really was checking on me, lol, to see if I were cheating on him! Oh it's so hard to know where one game ends and the next begins. Although my hope here is that lately most of that is subsiding and we're operating in some real honesty at this point. I've warned him I've grown weary after all this time and I can't handle uncertainty between us any longer. If we can't trust each other with our feelings, then let's let this whole thing go. That inspired a very long talk on the phone and a very unexpected visit that same afternoon. Guess I had him believing that I might really write him off if he didn't do something about it. No games though, that was from the heart. Maybe he knew that and that's why he reacted. He walks a fine line with me anymore. I adore him to the bottom of my soul, but I would live without him if I have to, rather than go on in uncertainty about what we are doing together.)

    Anyway, thank you for the post, it is very interesting. I'll be giving that some thought. I may want to pick your brain a bit too with that Scorp ascendent of yours. So crazy about the romantic love, lust and hate all coming together at once. You know, I believe I have experienced this with my Virgo. Not often thankfully, but a couple of times early on. It's like he wanted me and he was mad that he wanted me, so he said some things that really were rather hurtful and then next thing you know he wanted me again. Yeesh, I remember we were on IM and I got to the point where I didn't even know what to say, other than..."well let me know if you figure out what you want to do". He logged off and thirty minutes later came back telling me he was coming over. I just said, "okay" and logged off before he started spinning in circles again. Lol. It was pretty crazy.



  • Moon is different from Ascendant.

    Means not only you've got a Virgo ascendant, but also a Virgo moon... naturally, you would be compatible with (and attracted to) Virgos.

    Ascendant is, I believe, the constellation of the zodiac that is rising on the horizon the moment you were born, at the place where you were born (due to earth's rotation). Which is why you say you have virgo ''rising'', when your Ascendant is virgo.

    At the same time, the opposite constellation is going down, on the other side. So, by having virgo rising, you have Pisces descendant.

    I think the Descendant is what you look for in others, and the Ascendant is what you identify yourself with, and what you appear to be, on the surface. (Someone please correct me, if I'm wrong.)

    About the ''P.S.'' that's not what I meant by 'hidden side', but let's leave it at that xD if we ever get to talk through PMs again, or something, I can tell you, but I don't want to expose those parts of my personality in here... especially if it turns out not to be a typical virgo trait. Then I'd just feel plain stupid.

    Hugs

    David



  • Hi David. Thanks for the compliment. It makes me feel good to know that I project a good feeling for your when you read my posts. I truly am an emotional person and sometimes that backs up on me in a big way. Yes I have a fighting spirit (I hate injustice of all kinds) but don’t be too fooled. LOL Sometimes my fight is all about keeping my anger, hurt and pain under control because I am so emotionally out of control. Right now as I type this reply I am in one of those emotional states and I have to work to not let my emotions have me acting out in a way that sets me back instead of moving me forward. Days like this are draining for me because I can’t stand that internal feeling of “falling” apart.

    Of course, this was triggered by an emotional reaction to Virgo this morning. Same silly nonsense on the boards. It seemed like he was prepared for me today and went out of his way to non-verbally hurt me by outstaying me on the board and yakking it up with his latest “option.” Even when I got to work to see if he was still there he was and it hurt. I took it personally, although I honestly can’t say that he really did know I was on there or even took the time away from his activities to check or even care. The sting will pass as it always does. I guess I am just mad at myself for caring when he isn’t worth it because David, while he may know what he is missing he doesn’t give a damn. He would rather play these mind games than man up and ever admit anything, especially to me and especially now. He can’t even be honest with himself so why should I expect him to be honest with me, a woman who clearly defies his need to control and manipulate any situation and asks him (even in silence) to be more than he is probably incapable of being at the moment if ever. Sigh Am I rambling like the emotionally off-centered female I feel like right now? LOL Like it said, it will pass. But then what.

    Jenever is right in that I need to run from this mess and never look back. I know how to let go it’s just some people and situations it takes me a longer to do it with. I hate to admit that Virgo is under my skin even a little bit but then I wouldn’t be on this thread if he wasn’t right? I don’t him to be though and the only thing I can be grateful for at this moment where he is concerned is that I haven’t had some emotional meltdown where I all but go ballistic on him and want to slap the taste out of his mouth for being such a jerk. I so wish he had left me alone and never started me on this path but it happened for a reason. Perhaps for no other reason than to remind me of how toxic my relationships with men like him can be and to finally lay it all to rest. Right now I want to find something that will redirect my energies to more positive pursuits and off of him. I really don’t enjoy these head games whether I am “winning” in any particular moment or not. Just don’t understand why it even has to be this way at all but that’s human nature and it isn’t going to stop simply because I am having an off day and can’t handle the hold it has over me for the time being. I just have to ride it out and let my heart break just a little bit more and hope that it brings the emotional distance I need to finally say adios to it all and move on like I know I should if I am ever to find the loving connection I seek. Easier said that done but then what isn’t that way in life? Talk with you soon. Take care.



  • AGH!!! Keepingitsimple, I had a feeling he was going to get to you and I'm not even psychic! Lol. I don't have time right now to go back and read your posts, but tell me, is the dating site the only way you two communicate? Does he have your phone number or regular e-mail?

    Hidden Diamond - So I have a Virgo double-whammy going huh? Not sure I'm very excited with that news. Explains why I put myself in such an emotional vs. analytical spin all the time though. But with your Scorp thing I guess you know what I'm talking about. A Cancer disposition is probably a bit easier to manage than the intensity of Scorpio. Okay, you have piqued my curiosity of course, but alas, I can't even remember the name of the site where we can PM. If you can refresh my memory or send me a quick "hi" it should come through on my Yahoo so I can access the link. I'm not sure we've really nailed down what "typical Virgo traits" are in all of these many months of discussion, lol. No worries about judgment here - I am too clueless to go there.



  • Hey Jenever...TGIF! No worries. Yesterday the Moon transited into my sun sign and my horoscope said it would be an extremely emotional day/period for me but that it would be brief and pass. It did. I talked with my BFF a lot yesterday (she's a Gem) and between the two of us some more adjustments were made toward my outlook of the situation which enabled me to find my center and focus again...moreso on me than on Mr. Virgo. Oh he was part of the "hashing out" process to be sure but in the end it came down to still being all about me: how I saw myself in my own eyes not his (especially since he can't get real with his own reflection of himself), how every time I allow the feigned indifference game to bounce back and forth between us how it saps my energy and keeps me negative (and whose to say his indifference isn't real...maybe Mr. Virgo really has moved on as is best should I), how much I am holding myself back every time I feel the need play the game even for momentary vindication but no peace of mind resolution. Isn't that still giving him what he wants...my mind focused on him and what he wants and when he wants it? Therefore, with this long weekend some changes will be made...big changes...to ensure that I continue toward a healthy emotional break from this man.

    First off, yes Jenever...we only talk on the board where we met. Its where he feels most powerful and in control. He gets to toss out his temporary keep'em in holding pattern crumbs to me and his adoring fan club while still able to keep one eye on "the door" to pounce on any new arrivals to the board who haven't fallen under his spell. Just how much ego stroking does one man truly need is beyond me. We have texted on occasion, I have called him twice (even though he promised to do same and never has), and I have sent him approximately 3 emails to his private addy. Otherwise, most of our communication has taken place via IM. However, to be as fair as I can to him in this situation, he told me his real name (not the one he uses on the board which he claims is his middle name), gave me his private email and his phone number. Once he got his foot "in the door" the majority of the communication responsibilities laid with me but who is surprised by that? LOL Anyway...my cellphone died this past week and I had to get a new one with a new number so, if and/or when Mr. Virgo ever attempts to contact me via the old number he will be in for a surprise seeing as how in our ignoring game I haven't provided him with the new one. I call this a twist of fate and a hopeful sign in helping me to move on. I am also going to be busy this long holiday weekend which will keep me off the board completely. Mr. Virgo will love that bedcause he'll be free to play without having to worry about avoiding or ignoring me. I'm so thoughtful of him aren't I? LOL After the weekend, I will have made another big decision that I will tell you abou tafter its done but it should be my last big hurdle to jump.

    And how are you and your Virgo doing Jenever? Any progress for you? Are you happy within yourself right now even if things in your relationship aren't all they could be?



  • Keepingitsimple - What do you suppose he would do if you were to call him and just directly call "the game" off? Just say honestly how you were so interested in him in the beginning but that it looks like things aren't going the direction you might have imagined early on. Tell him you enjoyed the time you've spent getting to know him and wish him well in his (obvious) search for someone that makes him happy.

    He really has gotten under your skin, and I'm just wondering if there might be some (and I really hate this term, lol) but some closure for you.

    Just food for thought. Hugs.



  • Hi Jenever.

    Have no idea what he would do if I did as you suggest. I get where you are going with the closure thing but that is in the process whether we ever speak again or not. We will both get over what happened and move on. Yes, he may still be "under my skin" but he won't be the firs or the last. It eventually passed for the others who affected me the same way and so it shall pass for him too.



  • I have been married to a virgo man for 31 years, and I am very confident to say that he has never cheated. he knows I would figure it out in a heartbeat, so no trying to mess with me. and I would end it if he ever did stray.

    Jenever what in the world are you doing wasting your life waiting around for this man. he is lying to you and the stuff he tells you are classics that so many other woman hear over and over.

    he is having sex with his wife, and he is very married to her and devoted to his kids. this so -called divorce story is BS to keep you around. he is a narcissist, and taking advantage of your willingness to let him back in. if his wife were to find out, he would be out the door.. it's just a matter of time before she finds out who you are.

    good luck.. Sunny



  • Well okay. I tend to be one of those who hates to end things without one final accounting. All chances have been given in all directions at that point and I can move along without ever wondering "what if..." But I am probably a lot more confrontational than a lot of people are comfortable with. I think it took my Virgo many months to figure me out that way. Any time I brought up issues he was looking for the underlying game - some kind of manipulation. Eventually figured out it was no game, I was looking for the bare truth in matters. We all have selfish needs, sure, but if you can throw those needs out on the table in honesty, then the game goes away and two people can deal with the heart of matters. Such a simple concept, so hard to live for some reason.

    Anyway, it sounds like you know what's best for you at this time, and so I wish you well!! You are a strong lady and I admire how you are handling yourself!



  • Ms Sunny - What in the world am I doing "wasting" my life on this man? Clearly I find value in him as a human being - more so than the average person I encounter. We obviously find value in each other or this would not have gone on for so long. Is it wrong for me to "waste" time on someone like that? Why don't I just go waste my time on men that I don't care about instead.

    You say that you would leave your husband of 31 years in a heartbeat if he strayed from you. Really? There is so little compassion in you for the complexity of emotions that lead to a state of unfaitfulness that you could walk away from all those years with the snap of your fingers? Your very own husband would not be worthy of your understanding, forgiveness or efforts to figure out a different direction for your relationship. There is so little you value in him as a human being that you would instantly reject him - is it ALL about you then? No wonder it makes no sense to you then, that I would not ask my Virgo to forsake everything to be with me right NOW because I want things the way I want them, who cares what happens on his side of the fence.

    I'm sorry, but you think nothing of suggesting that I am blind and there is nothing of substance that my Virgo might find with me. (I think I have many qualities that a man would find attractive and want to have in a relationship). Where do you find the difference between whether someone is talking "lines" to manipulate you in a relationship and talking "lines" because that's what's really in their heart? Don't they sound the same? Somewhere in there you trust that person, that is the only thing that changes a statement like, "I need you in my life" from just a line to an expression of sincerity.

    Anyway, I disapprove of his sitaution just as much as you or anyone else because whether you believe it or not, it brings him pain. It's not what he wants for himself, and it's certainly not what I would wish on anyone I care about. You might think he deserves punsihment, but the reality is that his whole marriage is a punishment at this point. We ALL want relationships that make us feel happy and secure. I don't doubt that his wife knows full well that his heart isn't in their marriage. Who wouldn't know after 15 years with someone? But he didn't get to this place all alone. A true narcissist would ignore all consquences and go after what he wanted. To you it may look like that, but you haven't gone through the hours of conversation that I have with this man to know the difference between someone who is full of b.s. and someone who really finds himself between a rock and a hard place. He tolerates his emotional emptiness with his devotion to his children, but actually admits that this is a mind game he plays with himself that will eventually catch up to him in time, when the kids grow up and go their ways. Leaving him alone with his final punishment, lol.

    Whatever he finds with me, he knows he can't hold on to it without me making that decision to stick this out with him. I own that decision. I have only one choice to make in all of this; stay or walk away. He is not taking advantage of someone who is naively falling for his "lines". We discuss everything, and frankly, sometimes it's pretty unpleasant because he has to face himself and his choices. He has to justify why I should deal with him and his life of lies. If he were the kind of man who had no conscience about conducting himself the way he has, he surely would have moved on a long time ago. It would not be worth the simple aggravation I cause him. If you've read through this whole thread, you know darn well, that's a LOT of aggravation.

    Anyway, I applaud your 31 years of marriage and wish you many more. Please just remember that every person is a story unto themselves, and generalizations don't always apply.



  • Jenever, don't think for a sec that I don't understand that you love this man married, single, rich or poor. however, you do choose to control your emotions and your actions. I am not at all heartless, just that some people have specific deal breakers. it's either or, no in between.

    I fell in love with a man who was committed as well, although no intimacy took place, it was an affair of the heart. but I knew better, it was simply wrong, and walked away,closed the door on any future opportunity. yes, it was very hard to do, but it was for the best in the long run, and I have a very clear conscious, and no regrets and never thank god looked back.

    you have and will set yourself up for major heatbreak, pain and disappointment, if you choose to continue this deceitful relationship. you will cut your losses if you end it now, and the longer you go on with this, the harder it will be for you to move on and meet someone who is available and can provide a life with.

    your choice..

    again, good luck on your spiritual journey. Sunny