The heart of a Virgo man
Jen, I hear you. I do not think you are playing counselor. I think you can express your opinion, whatever that maybe and show objectivity on both sides of whatever he tells you and he will respect you for that, or you can just listen which at times might be even better. I think for men, sharing something they are struggling with is hard and sometimes they just want us to listen. I do know in the past I have given an opinion or comment right back which some men have viewed as me wanting to find a solution, which ultimately is a very male thing to do. Men fix things or a least they try
I think you are handling it super well. I do not think there is anything there between them and the more secure you are with that the more he will show he is interested in you. Virgo guy over here watched his ex's dog a couple of weekends ago, she was out of town and he stayed there a couple of nights although he saw me during the day. He asked me what I thought, that he didn't want to upset me and he explain why he was doing it. I sided with the animal basically and his attachment to this animal that was his and he understood. The next day (and I didn't ask for this, I swear), he waited until she got back home and talked to her. He said that he loved the dog but that she couldn't rely on him watching the dog anymore, that he was with me, that I hadn't ask for anything but that he didn't want to make me uncomfortable...I can tell that Virgo guy has some healing to do still and little by little he opens up more about it.
I am trying to think that we are not in a relationship because he gets really close to me and then he seems to want his independence for a couple of days, then he comes back. He seems detached at other times...it is very strange, I am still trying to figure him out. It seems that if I am sweet, he likes it but if I initiate anything he is not too comfortable with that...I am still getting to know him. But it seems to be that the pattern is like hot and cold. I am trying to adapt. We both have mutable signs, that seems to be part of it...we'll see. I am not going to see him this week. We went from seeing each other once a week to twice a week last week and now we have put on the brakes...not used to this. I am in my vulnerable period, basically when I sabotage early relationships (between the 2nd and 6 month mark)!!!
KhemVal, same here, we have conversations that dwell on different things, deep like you said. A typical conversation if we cannot see each other lasts two hours. And I keep telling myself ("I should hang up right now!!) because this is barely 2 months...Be well!
OMG!!! I wrote the longest response and it disappeared when I posted it! I am so frustrated!
New ladies, welcome to the thread !
Mardepp, unfortunately disappearing messages happen all the time here, for some reason, and they usually reappear after you post something else straight after. Jen always advises to copy messages just in case, which is a good idea, but it's easy to forget doing it.
Yes, blowing hot and cold is a very typical behaviour for Virgo, and probably it does have something to do with Virgo being a mutable sign. The best way to make him blow hot again is to ignore him in responce of him blowing cold. Virgos respond best to absence, in my experience, as it feeds their imagination and stimulates the need for control and thrill of the chase.
CancerGirl LVB, several ladies on this thread have been in your situation. The outcome tends to be more or less always the same - typically it's a happier ending for the ladies than for the Virgo men, who after few years of indecision and going back and forth, ended up losing both their wives and women they were involved with. On the other hand, after few years of frustration, ladies have moved on to relationships with more open and devoted men.
That's just a brief summary, but you should probably go through the thread and see the developments for yourself. It could be very eye openning. Well, a lot also depends on your intentions towards your husband and family. If you just want to have an "imaginary" romantic friend/correspondent, then Virgo is probably your man, as it is highly unlikely that your relationship would ever go any further than a long distance one, which is what Virgos thrive at. Sorry if I'm sounding too matter of factly - 10 years of living under the same roof with a Virgo talking here. Can't ignore the experience.
KhemVal - Three years with a Virgo man and you're not here with a sad story. I want to congratulate you both!! I mean that!
CancergirlLVB - Hi and welcome. I'm sorry you find yourself in a similar situation. The biggest difference though is that you are both married, and you have not seen him yet. Meeting will make your situation even more compicated given the build-up of emotions.
Soo....what's this guy up to? He seeks you out after 20 years. His first love. Life has proven disappointing perhaps and now he returns to a time of innocent love. How very romantic and unrealistic given his circumstances and yours. If I can offer you any wisdom from my experience it is that you can love each other as long and deeply as you please, but for you to really have anything more than a relentless (and often painful) longing for each other, both of your situations would have to change. You will hover in a no-man's-land of love that you don't know how to release and at the same time that you can not allow to grow because of the obstacles of you both being married. The dishonesty at play now and the future lies it is going to take for you to keep communicating and eventually meet is weaving a level of negativity into your relationship already. It is a relationship that is developing around negativity. Your disappointments in your marriages, the lack of freedom you have to leave that and explore new relationships that might make you happier, and now you are both exploring something emotional together that is probably less than you really want (hence your emotionalism already) and that is not going to be as much as either of you really deserve.
This is not love, it is filling a hole. Love is open and has lots of room to grow. Until you could both be in the position of letting love grow, it will only be an endless attempt to fill a hole. It will fell incomplete. Of course you are free to love him unconditionally, but that requires that you let go of your desire to have a love that is devoted to the two of you. The price for unconditional love in this case is the hope of having him all to yourself. Love him then as you would a dear friend and don't entertain the idea of taking it any further or you will hurt yourself. If you think that you can live with that hurt, then carry on. In retrospect I still don't know whether I am happy that I knew my Virgo or do I wish that we had never met. I learned a lot from the experience, but I think there could have been better ways to learn life lessons than what the experience put me through emotionally.
I suspect your guy is pretty comfortable with what is going on between you two, mostly because this is clearly what your intuition is telling you. Trust your instincts here and you will keep yourself out of trouble. You both have a lot at stake. Don't give up anything and don't put your current marriage at risk unless and until you are 100% certain that you are both in agreement about what you want and what you BOTH are willing to do about it. You don't say if there are kids involved or what his financial situation is like. This would very seriously weigh into what sacrifice he is willing to make in my opinion (Virgos are practical men), particularly if he is just in some kind of emotional exploration or soul-searching. This is more of a mental exercise for him right now than emotional - or he would have missed you enough to contact you before letting weeks pass.
Get used to hearing "we will work this out". What does that mean? Nothing. Until he takes some real action to seriously be with you, this statement is an all-encompassing non-commitment to everything or anything. Meanwhile you need to keep thinking about what is going on with your marriage. If you are really unhappy, rather than contemplating a love affair, why don't you either explore ways to repair your marriage or free yourself completely to find a new love.
As far as the "ending" of my involvement with Virgo - I don't think there is such a thing as a real ending with these guys unless you end it. If you page back to posts around late August and early September 2011 you can read what happened with my Virgo. In a nut-shell, he loved me he hated me, and in the end I feel like he left things hanging. How else could he leave things since he is married? As I say, unless two people are both free, there is nothing else that can develop.
This is all just my humble opinion based on my experiences in being involved and dealing with the emotional aftermath after three years. For all I know your guy is on the verge of divorce and you can divorce and you both live happily ever after. No one knows but you two.
Well, "uh oh" on the Ariesman front here ladies. We were cozied up last night and out of the blue he says, "so are we falling in love"? Wow! You know that Aries honesty is both refreshing and disarming at the same time. I said, "I'm not in love, but I think we are getting along very well". And that seemed to suit him as he added, "right, we're having fun and enjoying ourselves...you're right. There are lots of things we still have to do together." (How wierd is that if you go back and read my recent post where I said JUST that very thing - that we don't know each other doing different things and in different settings.)
You know, as any relationship develops there always seems to come that point where one person is more invested than the other. I think we're there. He is using that "L" word a lot when he can. "I love your hair", "I love your smile", "I love how interesting you are"....I believe that he may very well be falling in love here, but I am not feeling it yet or maybe just not feeling it the way I used to. I think it's possible that I've changed how I view love in a relationship forever. I think that if we're just getting along as great friends and no other person comes along that changes that for either of us then we'll just keep going along as great friends and it will just exist and at some point we would just have to look at it and say, "hm, I guess we're going to stay together".
Or maybe I'll never feel "in love" with him, maybe something is missing, I don't know. This seems to work just fine for me right now and I enjoy the absence of drama. In my mind we have had about 8 dates at this point and we text each other daily, talk on the phone every few days. THAT is not enough for me to base any kind of commitment on or fall deeply in love. It's nice that he's able to ask such a pointed question though because that allows me to be open about where I am at with things. So hard when people keep their thoughts and questions all bottled up.
So glad to hear things with Ariesman are good! That is great!!
Well, I may have blown it already with Virgo guy. I feel like disappearing...For a few days now I felt like he has been pulling back a little, so I stayed silent and he reappeared yesterday and we had a good conversation on the phone last night. He can be very affectionate and playful, but he has not been sweet lately and not very romantic, contrary to what it was before. He also hasn't asked to see me and I am confused. He does have a tournament this weekend and I am going out of town and all that is good. But tonight I felt bad because I put all that together in my head (his detached behavior) and I sent him a kiss, made it a point to tell him that I wanted to see him ( I have not done that and I feel some times he thinks I am not interested, that is why I did it). But he did not return my kiss : ( , but he answered the phone "hi honey!". So, whatever, these are the waters that are hard to navigate for me...trusting the process...
So, I don't know, I feel like I'm damned if I do or don't. So I will go into hiding for a few days and let him take the first step again. (see if he does that in the first place!). Uf! I thought I understood Virgos but I don't!!
Mardepp, you shouldn't be blaming yourself for "blowing" anything. His detachement just means that he's grown comfortable enough with you start doing the usual Virgo act - blowing hot and cold, disappearing, making you chase him. This, by the way, is one thing you shouldn't do with Virgos, or he will start taking you for granted. Most Virgos, unfortunately, are not good with stable relationships. They need chase, distance, turmoil and insecurity to feel alive. That is, if you have it in your character the need to keep your partner on his toes, then he'll worship you forever, as long as you two don't ever get close and comfortable with each other. If not, he'll move on to the next challenge. Well, having said that - that's your average Virgo, so I don't know, maybe yours is an exception from the rule.
Jen, even if you are not in love now, I wouldn't point it out too often to the Ariesman, as it is pretty devastating for the Aries' self esteem to hear, even if he doesn't admit it. Eventually he'll think something like "dammit, I deserve better than that".
My Virgo used to avoid the L word for few years, and he would typically say something like "define love", if asked. The result is - my pride was hurt and I've got emotionally detached from him. Now he seems to be a changed man (?), has realised that he loves me after all, uses L word frequently, but it's too late.
Hi Voply Soply! Thank you for your words in your former post and in this last one...they really help. I have been putting in practice what you are saying from the beginning except for the last couple of times, so I will not do that anymore. So, I guess what you are saying is to return his affection but to not initiate anything first (chase him). He's told me before a couple of times when I did not return his texts at night that it makes him feel that I do not feel the same way about him if I do not reply, to please not do that. But it seems that If I open up more he recoils...argh! do not know if I am interested in keeping that up. Life should be more spontaneous than that!
I know what you mean about your Virgo. It is too early for him to use the "L" word. Although it blurted out of his mouth the first time we were intimate in a strange context of the conversation and it surprised me! But this one says goodbye with "be safe", nothing sweeter than that...I do not know if I am interested in this, I am starting to see his true colors...
In the meantime I am going away for the weekend to visit some friends. Thank you again for your words, they REALLY help!
VoplySoply - Well, I wouldn't have said anything at all to Ariesman if he hadn't asked me the question. Since he did, I didn't want to lie or mislead him. I need this to progress at a pace that I'm comfortable with as well. Do you understand how much of my emotions I had to juggle to keep Virgo feeling comfortable? That's an almost impossible task and I usually did end up just throwing my emotions out there, because It's not fair that I had to hold back. I wouldn't ask Ariesman to do that either. If he's feeling the need to know where we are with things, well, then he should bring it up. When Ariesman asked I was honest and not hurtful, that should be a good thing. If he gets to a point that he finds it hurtful that I'm not telling him I love him then hopefully he will say something and we can talk about it. I'm available, open, always there for him and faithful to him. I guess I feel a bit like your Virgo man with this one; "define love"? I still feel that this is too soon to get so intense emotionally (did I mention that I have a Virgo ascendent? It could be in play here.)
I have a close Aries girlfriend here who is dating a Scorpio (these men can be very complicated as well). At times she is in deep angst over the fact that he says he loves her but then his actions make her question his feelings all the time. This is the problem with different expectations on what the word "love" means. This is also why I don't want to start using that word loosely and have it come back to me, "...but I thought you loved me....why are you doing/not doing this..." I see how important it is for my Aries girl friend to hear "I love you", but that is because it means something to her that I am not so sure it means to her Scorp guy. Or, his actions are so questionable that she needs to hear this all the time to calm her doubts that keep creeping up. Communication is the only solution. Real communication, not just tossing words around. In defense of Virgo's this might be why they are cautious with using the word. Words are words and subject to all kinds of interpretation. I am much more moved by Ariesman being able to define what he enjoys about me and his actions than if he were to tell me ten times a day that he loves me. But see that's just me....
One of these days Ariesman and I will get together with my Aries girlfriend and her Scorp and I am going to be curious to see what happens. Knowing them both, I believe they have very similar emotional needs. I have actually had moments when I've thought, "Ariesman would be perfect for my Aries girl friend". I know that might seem odd, but there it is. Maybe intuitively I already understand that I'm probably not going to give him what he needs. You want to hear something interesting? It turned out that my Aries girlfriend's Scorpio man grew up next door to my Ariesman. Not sure what the odds were of that kind of coincidence, but pretty big I would think. This makes it very easy for us to find reason to all get together. Hmm...perhaps these two Aries are meant to meet? See, I can't help but wonder as I do believe that people are brought together in life for a reason. We will find out one of these days. If there were some "magic" there what would I do? Be happy for them hopefully.
If I seem overly aloof, I should tell you that Ariesman is also talking about taking a job out West that would have him working away from here for two or three weeks at a time, then off for one week. The distance is huge and even if he comes back on the weeks off, he has his son to spend time with. Sounds complicated. I told him that if he feels like this is what he wants/needs to do, then he should. As he put it, things are tough around here and the money is "too hard to pass up". So more my reason for keeping things "real" between us. I don't want to say we are in a "relationship" if his whole situation is going to change. Friends, for sure. In love and in a committed relationship...? I don't think that would make sense at this stage of things.
I've just been reading for a few weeks and thought I'd check in. Welcome to all the new folks who joined the convo!
Nothing new with Virgo and me. We didn't talk for over a week (my doing). He ticked me off one day being overly critical and honing in on a small part of a text I'd sent him vice looking at what else was said. I blew up and just didn't talk to him for 8 days. When I finally decided to talk to him again he seemed glad to be speaking again and told me he was hurt. First time I got any kind of emotion from him, but guess what? I don't believe he was hurt at all. Told him so too. I just don't trust him because he's all about self and probably wants pity. Whatever. So he said we won't be intimate anymore (as if that's a punishment for me) and I said ok. Anyhoo, Scorpio said I seemed like a woman who wanted to be chased (don't know where Mr knowitall got that from) and he couldn't do that. That is so far from the truth about me! I'll chase if it's worth my time but that turned me off so much that I told him goodbye and good riddance! I think he thought he could read me and knew me so well just by the few conversations that we had. I told him he was off the mark about me and needed to quit trying out psychological bs on me. If he was correct I would have no problem telling he he was, but he was wrong with his assumptions and nothing could sway him from what he thought! Wheewww think I dodged a bullet there. Taurus man called me and told me he wasn't coming to visit next month because he ran into an old girlfriend and wanted to see where it would go. I said thanks for being honest, see where it goes and good luck. So that's that. I would crack up about my love life if it weren't so tragic, lol! However, I'm in good spirits and all is well. My grandmother is doing fine and life is life.
Hope you ladies are enjoying a great weekend!
Hey Gem4ever - nice to see you back. Glad to hear your grandmother is doing well. So did you write off Virgo now or is this just a temporary retreat? I wonder if he is saying you seem like a woman who wants to be chased because he's offended that you aren't willing to chase him? Whatever, eh? It's just more of the same.
That's too bad about Taurus man, I know you were excited about him. Most likely the old girlfriend won't work out, seems that those things usually don't, but better that he gets it out of his system one way or the other. The long-distance thing certainly has it's challenges no matter what, so maybe this is a space to find someone else entirely, if you want someone at all right now. Maybe Taurus man will come back around, or maybe you will find someone else who strikes your fancy before then. Your love life isn't tragic, you're just not with the right guy - he's tragic, lol. You have a great weekend too and keep those spirits up!
I see you and Aries man have progressed and now he's got feelings and you're not so sure? I hope you're just going to go with the flow on this. If he does take the job, that's not necessarily a deal breaker is it? Distance does have it's challenges though. I hope everything works out the way you want it to.
Yes I think Scorpio wanted me to chase him. But I didn't know him nor like him like that...that's a done deal and I'm over it already. Never really got started with him anyway. Who knows with Virgo. I've said on here before I'm exhausted by his not saying what he means. But I cannot change him; not trying to. If that's the way he is, it is what it is. Let some other poor thing deal with that. I'm not putting in what I used to with him. I don't want Taurus man to come back around; he did text me the next morning and I didn't respond...what for? Not getting caught up with him and then he has to stop because the other girl doesn't like it. This has happened before...it's done as far as I'm concerned. I was kidding when I said my love life is tragic. You're correct; the right one just hasn't come along. I'm not overly concerned about that though. I'm kind of resigned to the fact that I'll just be alone until the one who deserves me comes along. Thanks Jen!
love how the posts don't show up immediately one time; then the next time it's there pronto! smh and lol!
Gem4ever - Oh, my mistake, I missed the mention of Scorpio and was reading that as if it were still about Virgo. Well now I will say for sure that he was probably offended that you were being difficult and not completely submissive to his charms by now. No, a Scorp man won't outright chase, he will however attempt to manipulate to get what he wants. If he doesn't get what he wants then he will want to do something subtle to put a "sting" on you. Personally I figure a Scorp man and a Gemini are probably good intellectual companions, but Scorp likes to be in control. Geminis are not people easily controlled in my experience. I'm not surprised by this outcome.
I am, in my opinion anyway, going with the flow with Aries. We get along very well. It's not that I have no feelings for him, but we get along perfectly fine. There are no apparent obstacles to us just continuing to go along getting along fine...unless we start creating them.
J, sent you a fb message... well, 2 actually... regarding the same subject (7th July girl) I mentioned in november.
Need advice on this one... again lol.
Hope you can reply when you have a chance.
Jen, well, honesty and directness is a good thing, there is no doubt about that. My only concern was that you could eventually grow to love him, but by that time he might decide that it is not worth the trouble to emotionally invest into you. Maybe it's something about being Aries, but it is important for us to know that we are loved by our partners, and not in a qualified way. However, if you are not sure where you want this relationship to go, then obviously you are doing the right thing not to commit yourself prematurely. As for presenting him to your Aries girl friend, well, that's very altruistic of you. It can also be an eye openning experience as regards your own feelings towards the Aries man.
Speaking of "define love" phrase, it seems like my Virgo friend and I have swapped roles. These days it's mostly me who insists on clear definitions, and he finds it frustrating.
G4E, it seems like you have no shortage of men around you anyway, so chances are, the right person will present himself at some point. I think you've done the right thing about both the Scorpio and the Taurus.
As far as men it's feast or famine for me I'm afraid! Right now I don't have anyone on my scope but I'm ok about it. Maybe it's just what I need--to be alone for awhile. Won't be a stretch because even with what I had the last few months I always felt alone. Virgo is gone too as far as I'm concerned. It's a relief not trying to figure out where someone is coming from and where I stand with him. We had a chat the other day and I have to realize that not everyone is like me--direct and he's definitely not that. My life was uncomplicated before I met him and I'm looking forward to that quiet drama-less feeling again. We were definitely not compatible in any way. On a positive note, I do believe he would probably be a great guy for someone who he's really into...
Soooo I'm around just reading and may make a comment every now and then...you ladies take care!
HD - I see the messages and will try to respond later today. Have a long list of "must get done" today. Was just hopping on to see what's up on the thread.
VoplySoply - Appreciate your thoughts about Aries. You know, I did a lot of reading on the male Aries a couple weeks ago. If you put any merit on star-signs reflecting personality then these are very difficult men to please. They want to be the center of attention but they want a woman who is independent. They want a woman who is spontaneous and yet reliable, interesting and yet not too challenging, feminine and yet a bit of a tom-boy, and someone who can keep up with THEIR hectic and everchanging lives. For everything it says they want, they want the opposite as well. I can't get my head around all that and I don't want to try because I think my mind would implode. I just want to be myself. I don't want to feel pressured to give more than what I am offering. If that isn't enough then he will be right to move on. If I sense that is becoming the case, I will be the one to tell him to move on for his own sake.
I've said many times through this thread that I remain friends with nearly every man I've ever been involved with. Part of the reason is that I am willing to keep communcations open every step of the way. I don't want to hurt people I care about. I think that if Ariesman and I evolve to a place where I have feelings for him and he feels that I'm not worth the investment, well then I think we must not have been communicating very well. I can't imagine such a gap in understanding occurring. My hope is that we can talk about things before they build up to a crisis. That's why relationships fail.
I was listening to a discussion on the radio recently about the difference between infatuation and love. According to this conversation, infatuation is when the focus is on what makes you feel happy, love is when the focus is on what makes another person feel happy. The difference between selfishness and selflessness. The difference between taking and giving. The difference between each partner asking the other, "what do you need from me" versus an attack with, "why aren't you giving me what I need"? It was interesting to think about the subtle differences in this especially based on the many hours I spent with the couple's counselor during the end of my marriage. According to the marriage counselor, no matter what the surface issues seem to be, the deep reason that relationships fail is mainly due to unmet emotional needs.
I must go and get things done now! Have a great day everyone.