The heart of a Virgo man
Hi HD! How funny to see you here as I had every intention of sending you a "hello" earlier tonight on FB but I got sidetracked.
I find your theory very interesting. How do the fire and water signs fit in though? Think about it and let me know. Seriously, I think this is a very fun idea to explore. We don't have to be right or wrong, just have some fun with it!
Jeeplady - We're all here for you! Not sure anyone can tell you what to say when you do talk to your V again. You have the job of digging down and finding what your heart says. We can help you collect your thoughts or explore your feelings, but when the day comes, it's all up to you. Don't worry about it, just figure out what you want and the rest gets a little easier after that. Operative word "little", lol. It's emotional stuff and you're in the thick of it, there's no easy way out other than being easy on yourself amongst all of it.
I feel unhelpful here, but somehow that's the best answer I can come up with right now.
Hi Magickal! Thanks for your post. At the risk of sounding flip, I believe that he actually could forget about his ex - I'd love to forget about mine, and I don't know too many other divorced folks who wouldn't say the same. If we liked them we'd still be with 'em. If he ever makes the move to leave her, I'm doubting he'll be much different. And as far as the kids - I have three myself. It might sound noble to say that I'd put them before any man, but realistically I would put them in the same place as a man that I loved. I'd love them ALL, including his children. If V, or any man, couldn't love me as much as his own children, or would expect me to love him more than my children, then he's probably not the man for me anyhow. Love doesn't keep score.
True that about the "loooong time" thing. Like snails, lol.
Not sure... but everywhere I read, fire seems to be supposed to be lighter than air... so I assume that, according to the train of thought from my post of yesterday, they would move even faster than air.
(I'm not sure...say if they move so early, wouldn't it be easier for ''false alarms'' to occur for them, at the start?).
As in ''I thought I was interested, but I really am not.''
Water should be somewhere between air and earth(Kind of does make sense, since emotion is the main driving force in 'Water' people... if they were easier to move than fire or air, I wonder what would happen - a permanent bipolarity crisis?).
Note that I'm just hipothesizing though!
@Jenever7, Earth douses Fire... Definitely can attest... the two people I've loved and been involved with for over 30 years, a Cap and Virgo... at least my two were definitely complete opposite of me... AGAIN (LoL) way too slow to action, deliberate, and calm which is a good thing, but for a fire sign extremely daunting and the reason we're absolutely fabulous together as mates (bring out each other's negative traits) but, not for a daily regime. Supposedly, both signs are great partners for business and that I too can agree on. Aries leads and gets things done quickly where Virgo and Caps plan and pay careful attention to details. Details are Aries worst enemy, yet Aries will immediately take action/lead when things need to be accomplished. Hence, why we all need to appreciate each other's gifts and talents.
HaHa @HiddenDiamond... U have hit it again with your fire lighter than air statement and this is probably why Aries appear to some, to be too blunt and bossy. Aries are known for quick action, whether movement or talk... Aries can say what other's will not say and have to be careful they do not hurt someone's feelings... This is not intentional, it truly just happens, and why most Aries would rather deal with other peeps that will be direct and truthful.
All the Aries I know, me included, very rarely take things personal and do not hold grudges. In fact, after an incident or disagreement occurs, it usually is forgotten within an hour. Cd be the high energy releases things too quickly. Aries can also stay friends with their ex's, without any jealousy. On the other hand, if I'm in a relationship, it needs to be exclusive (s e x u a l l y) and I need to be number 1, if my significant other cheats, I'm out of there. Although, I do not mind my guys having girls for friends, I just better be first when I need them. Now I am speaking for myself here, but most other Aries I know, admit the same.
Maybe, we can discuss our signs and whether we are pretty close to the traits of our sign, since this is an astrology forum and we would know ourselves best.
Thanks Jenever. I'm just afraid to say the wrong thing. If I mention anything to do with our relationship he won't answer. I must admit I am a little jealous a common thread between most of you is that your V's will actually talk about things. Even when sitting across from mine I got mostly silence. I'm probably putting way too much thought into something that most likely won't happen anyways. I've read in several places once a V says it's over, it's over. I deeply hurt mine and he is very angry and very stubborn and I've read that even if he does still love me his mind will win and he will not contact me. This is where my desire to manipulate come in. I could go and plunk myself down on our couch and refuse to leave lol and I doubt he would fo much about it but I wouldn't be happy knowing he didn't ask me to come home. Can you believe our engagement ended and we HAVE NOT EVEN TALKED ABOUT IT!!! That blows me away. I think my best course of action is to have a lobotomy to remove all thoughts of this man from my brain because no matter how hard I try to live in the moment and stay occupied I find myself thinking about him every 2min or so!
I found this interesting horoscope for Virgo. I agree with most of it except the caring and considerate part lol
Shy and modest, the Virgo man is rather analytical than sentimental, intellectual than romantic. Rational and puritan, he needs to know exactly where he stands and what he has to do. The Virgo man does not enjoy mysteries. On the other hand, love and sex are mysteries we know little about.
The Virgo man is critical and very demanding. His extraordinary ability to seize flaws makes him very selective. Consequently, the fear of getting involved in a situation he cannot control, the lack of a detailed and precise recipe for love handling, as well as his special exactingness make it rather difficult for the Virgo man to start a relationship.
Very organized and orderly, the Virgo man is afraid that his intimacy will be violated and his discretion and bashfulness make him terrify at the thought he might be expected to manifest his love through gestures he does not feel he can make. Besides that, he is the practical and economical kind and love could mean waste of time and energy. All these things make the Virgo sign provide the largest number of bachelors.
However, as often happens, the Virgo man looks in his partner for the things he himself refrains from. What is most terrifying to him becomes precisely the great fascination in love: the fervency, the spontaneous expression of intuition and imagination, the energy and love of life. When the Virgo man meets these qualities in the woman he is interested in, the refrained child he carries deep within himself sets free and runs towards freedom...
Virgo man horoscope by Linda Goodman
We may as well get this out into the open right away. Don't pin your hopes on a Virgo man if your heart is hungry for romantic dreams and fairy tales, or you'll find yourself on a starvation diet. A love affair with a Virgo will dump a warm sentimentalist on the cold ground with a hard thud, and it can hurt.
This man lives almost entirely on a practical, material level, and he has little use for the abstractions of storybook romance. Of course, the whole problem may be academic anyway, since it will take no little effort to bring him any where near the threshold of a man-woman relationship in the first place. He's not the type to serenade you beneath your boudoir window. You'll have a long, lonely wait on your moonlit balcony until he starts climbing the rose trellis (or the fire escape, if you live in a walk-up).
Actually, Virgos are deeply involved with love from earliest childhood, but not the Romeo-Juliet kind of love. His chief way of expressing the word is concerned with unselfish devotion to family, friends and those weaker or more disorganized than himself. He was born with an instinctive love of work, love of duty and discipline and devotion to the helpless. Even the unevolved Virgo, ,who doesn't quite reach such heights, feels slightly guilty that he isn't living up to a selfless ideal in some way.
The kind of love which displays itself in dramatic emo tions, sentimental promises, tearful declarations and mushy affection, not only leaves a Virgo man cold, it can frighten him into catching the nearest bus or train out of town. (Planes are too fast and too expensive for him, unless he's really desperate.) But he can be melted if the temperature is just right, even though he seems to be made of a com bination of steel and ice. There are definitely ways to the Virgo heart. Secret ways. Aggressive pursuit is not one of them. Neither is coquetry nor sexuality, as many a flirta tious vamp and slinky siren has learned, to her surprise and disappointment.
Virgos seek quality rather than quantity in romance. Since quality is at pretty much of a premium in any cate gory, they have few real love affairs, and the few they do have are destined to be unlucky or sad in some way, more often than not. Virgo's reaction to such a disappointment is normally to bury himself in the hardest work he can find, stay away from society in general, and be twice as cautious at the next opportunity. You can see that you'll have to use considerable strategy and patience. The basic Virginian instinct is chastity, and he's turned from it only for a good cause or for a mighty good woman. Many Virgos-though admittedly not all-can live with celibacy far more easily than any other Sun sign, just as they put up with rules of discipline they don't understand, because obedience to fate without struggling comes naturally to them. If fate decrees a single life, Virgo is prepared to accept it without excess regret or emotional trauma, so there are lots of Virgo bachelors around-but still, in their quiet way, they can manage some very poetic, if fragile, love affairs.
Although he's never obvious, Virgo can be a master of the art of subtle seduction. A couple of generations of women who have trembled inside when a certain French man smiles his shy, gentle smile can tell you all about it. Maurice Chevalier didn't become a legend because he has a singing voice like Caruso, you know. He may not be of my generation, but I too get butterflies in the heart region when I see or hear him.
The Virgo man is a blend of sharp intellect and solid earth. He can be detached enough to break lots of hearts with a cool kind of flirting, but his critical analytical sense and his fastidious discrimination seldom allow these fre quent excursions to leave the platonic arena. It has to burn with a white heat to produce real passion in a Virgo. His modesty and selectivity alone prevent undue promiscuity. Of course, there may be an occasional fall into an earthy, physical experience, but such indiscretions are the exception, rather than the rule. The rule is aloof interest. I know pne Virgo man who accepted a part in one of those really raw "for adults only" films, but he did it strictly for the cash-he was flat broke at the time-and he still blushes when anyone mentions it. Naturally, a man is a man, and not all Virgo: remain technical virgins, but they do always emain puu in outlool-. There's invariably something clean ind chaste about Virgo love, which is never allowed to become soiled--cven in the midst of passion- -no matter vhat unfortunate events may give the outward appearance pf casualties^.
He'll take his own precious time about finding a love object, because he's as critical and painstaking in the selec tion of a woman as he is in his eating, grooming, health [and work habits. Don't try to fool him or lie to him. Your jvirgo lover holds no illusions. He wants a decent, honest (and genuine relationship. He knows very well how small |his chances are of finding it, but it's useless to expect him |to accept anything less. If circumstances ever do involve |him in a sordid affair, you can be certain he won't remain |in its clutches for long.
| He is a difficult man to stir emotionally. He can go for |a long time without feeling any burning need for a perma-Inent mate. It's enough to make you cry if you've set your | cap for him. You'll wonder if he's made of marble or if he |was born without a heart. No, he isn't made of marble |and yes, he does have a heart. Be patient. To her who (waits comes eventual success.
| Now and then a curious, frustrated Virgo may try a | fling at deliberate promiscuous behavior, simply to see if |he's lacking in masculinity. He's not, of course, and as | soon as he discovers it, he seeks no more artificial expe-|riences to prove himself. No cool, clear and collected Virgo can be immune to the call of human nature fotever, but once he does succumb, hell be shy about admitting it. When he's on the threshold of submission, he'll cover his true feelings with elaborate casualness. There is more than a spark of subdued, but extremely refined acting talent in Virgo. He will pretend to be disinterested as cleverly as he pretends to be ill when he's not enjoying himself at a party. Don't expect him to respond with any great display of ecstatic surrender even after he's committed, and while he's still deciding if you're really the one for whom he'll forsake his single state, he'll play it mighty cool, indeed.
Once he's decided it's for real, however, he'll declare himself with touching simplicity. His love will burn with a steady flame, never fluctuating like the love of other Sun signs, and it will give warmth over the years with wonderful dependability. Is that so bad? The one quality of fairy tale romance about Virgo is that, if he's genuinely in love, he will wait for years to claim his true mate, or travel over a thousand mountains to bring her home to his hearth. He's capable of enormous sacrifice in the pursuit of that one dainty foot he's discovered will fit the glass slipper. There's no denying that the flame is strong, once it's been kindled. It's almost impossible to extinguish it. You'll be as eternally adored as Cinderella herself. The trick, I suppose, is in the •original kindling. It's a rare foot that fits his glass slipper. Virgo is enormously particular.
After you've caught him, hell seldom if ever invite your jealousy, and he'll be determined to overcome any rough spots caused by financial problems, relatives or outside interference. He'll show incredible strength through emo tional and material hardships, as long as you remain by his side. You couldn't ask for a more tender, gentle companion when your heart is broken for any reason by a cruel world or when you're physically ill. He won't shower you with money, but you'll be well supplied with necessities, and he will shower you with consideration.
A Virgo man is invariably kindly and thoughtful about all those little things which matter to women. He has a crystal clear memory and probably won't forget special dates, though he may be a bit mystified as to why you think they are so important. He won't be wildly, passionately jealous, yet Virgo males are possessive in the extreme. This sounds like a fine line to draw, but it's important. Even though he doesn't throw emotional scenes of jealousy over the attentions other men pay you, his deeply rooted pos-sessiveness should warn you that a little freedom goes a long way. The wife of a Virgo who wanders too far away from the home fires too often may find herself without a husband to return to. Virgos are utterly loyal and they dislike destroying family ties intensely, but when their sense of decency has been finally outraged they won't hesi tate to make a cold, clean break in the divorce court. No messy, complicated trial separations for them. When it's over, it's over. Goodbye and good luck. Even the Virgo's sharp, unusually excellent memory won't cause him to cry sentimental tears over the past, simply because he's able to discipline his memory as firmly as he does his emotions. Self-discipline is part of his very nature. The Virgo man with his mind made up moves on-and having moved on, all your tears and apologies are useless in getting him to change his mind. He'll never fall victim to the illusion that gluing together the broken pieces will recreate perfection in what has once been seriously flawed.
If your heart is set on a Virgo man, you'd better brush up your thinking cap and wear it when he's around. Virgos hate ignorance, stupidity and sloppy thinking almost as much as they hate dirt and vulgarity, and that's a lot. The girl who snares the Virgo heart had better be smartly dressed with a sizable brain under her neat hair style-and you'll notice I said neat hair style. Virgos look for women who are clean in body and mind, and who dress well, but not in flashy extremes of fashion.
You won't have to be Julia Child, but for goodness sakes, don't ever be naive enough to think a Virgo husband will let you feed him out of cans. A pleasure-seeking, selfish, mentally lazy woman will never make it with a Virgo male, even if she's fairly oozing with sex appeal. This is the very last man in the world you can expect to find running off with a topless Go-Go girl, though he might loan her his sweater if she's chilly. When it comes right down to the nitty gritty, he's looking for a wife-not a mistress in any sense of the word.
Virgo men have no strong yearning for fatherhood, as a rule. Their particular kind of ego doesn't seem to require children for emotional fulfillment, and Virgos tend to have small families. Yet, once a child or children have been born, the Virgo is an extremely conscientious parent, and will never take his responsibilities lightly. Hell spend many hours teaching his youngsters skills and transmitting hia own high standards of conduct. He'll be cheerfully willing to help with homework and will probably make no end of sacrifices for hobbies, music lessons, camp and especially college. A Virgo father will place great emphasis on intel lect and train his children rigidly in matters of ethics, courtesy and good citizenship. Even the divorced Virgo will eventually see to it somehow that his offspring are well ared for, wherever they may be, and that they get an edu-ation. Children of Virgo fathers usually grow up with both love and respect for books and learning. You'll seldom find a Virgo""parent spoiling a child, and there will always be plenty of necessary discipline. All this is fine, but there may be a need for more physical expressions of love be tween a Virgo father and his youngsters, since affection is not something that comes naturally to him. Unless a serious effort is made in this area from babyhood on, there's more than a small chance that he'll one day discover an insur mountable barrier has grown between him and the offspring he loves so deeply. There's also a tendency to be too criti cal, to expect too much too soon and be too strict.
A Virgo will expect you to fuss a bit over his health, but hell wait on you when you're sick, too, and allow you to be a regular Camille. He may have his cranky and moody spells now and then, perhaps even frequently. But one thing is sure. If you leave him alone, he won't go out of his way to start an argument with you. Just let him get over his grumpiness and he'll surprise you with tenderness to make up for it. Let him worry. It's good for him, sort of a Virgo mental exercise. But when you see it's affecting his physical state, snap him out of it by suggesting something interesting or different to do. It isn't hard to catch the mental attention of a Virgo, though it may be hard to keep it.
Now that you know what you're in for, if you're still in love with that Virgo man, you can look forward io a pretty contented future. You'll have a husband who's alert and well-informed, who won't expect you to wait on him hand and foot or expect you to run around looking sexy all the time with a dab of perfume behind each ear and a rose in your teeth. (Although he may expect you to go around with a cake of soap in each hand.)
Hell be reliable and pleasant, if you're tactful about his faults. He won't have many of them anyway-unless you call the way he runs his finger across the furniture every night, looking for dust, a fault. Little habits like that. No matter what he does, try not to nag him. Remember, he's not constituted to be able to take the critical analysis he applies to others. Get used to his habit of criticizing you, and laugh it off with the realization that he can't help being such a sensitive hairsplitter. Once that resentment is out of the way, you can relax, and really enjoy your bright, loyal Virgo. He's not an angel. There are no wings sprouting on his shoulders. But lots of wives will be jealous of you.
After all, how many women are married to a hard working, handsome man who's neat and tidy around the house, who remembers anniversaries and performs miracles with the checkbook? How many wives have a smart hus band who dresses well, seldom goes out with the boys or makes passes at other women, and is usually gentle and considerate? Look closely again. Is that just the reflection of the street lights around his head, or could it be . . . ? No, it couldn't possibly be a halo. Not after the way he snapped at you when you spilled the buttered popcorn in his lap at the theater tonight. Of course not. That cranky character? Still, there is a kind of an aura. And when he smiles-and you can see yourself in his clear eyes-well, he'll do until someone with real wings comes along.
HiddenDiamond - So - we've got the air sign flitting along here, there and everywhere keeping things stirred up, we've got fire just burning things up and moving on to the next combustible object, I'm going to take a stab at water - that it soaks into earth, it extinguishes flames, I suppose it could be a refreshing mist or a tornado with air, a trickle or a dam-burst depending on the circumstances, and there's earth just sitting there like a rock while all this goes on around them, or as AriesBB points out, dousing dirt on her flames, lol. Explains my Virgo mixing all that dirt in my life and muddying up my emotional waters. Earth mixed with air sounds dusty and makes me want to run for air thinking of it.
None of the signs together, such as water and water, sounds very promising. Two waters swirling together and getting all mixed up, two air signs passing each other like leaves in the wind, two fires torching up quite a bonfire, but what's left after the coals grow cool, and two earths sitting like rocks neither one able to move to the other, or one big pile of dirt that goes nowhere. Perhaps I am too negative, lol, but visualizing it that's what comes to my mind. Perhaps you can find the positive analogies HD!
Fun stuff here HD. Maybe you should start a thread and see what others have to say!
Jeeplady - You are hilarious - a lobotomy! LOL! I'm glad you can joke, that's a good thing. As far as it being over - I haven't been able to define that state with my V. I enjoyed your post about Virgo characteristics. I'd read Linda Goodman's chapter before, but the other was new to me. Note the part about the lengths they will go to when they have found the "object of their desire". I'll speak for everyone here on this one - when do Virgo's KNOW that they've found that special one??? Sounds simple when Linda Goodman spells it out like that, but the reality is far different - at least to those outside of Virgo's ananlyzing, calculating little minds. No one can really seem to understand where they're really coming from or what's on their minds.
So is it over between you and your Virgo...who can really say - besides him - and maybe he hasn't quite sorted that out yet. I do however, believe, that Virgos are entirely capable of cutting someone off forever when they really have made up their minds and never looking back. If all that analysis supports it, they will do it, I'd bet real money on it. Maybe you really are more than he can handle Jeeplady. Geminis are so full of energy, uncontrollable and unpredictable (those I know are anyway!) Maybe he can't respond because you're too far ahead of him with your racing thoughts. He needs time to process and you probably do that in a nanosecond compared to him. Frankly I'm surprised you haven't already lost your patience and plunked yourself down his couch asking "so what's up with you?" If he's coming back around he WILL do it, but he will do it on his own terms and in his own time. The question is can you wait him out? You will find it exasperating to be sure.
Thanks so much for posting the Virgo information. I'm sure lots of folks seeking information on their Virgos will find that really, really helpful! Wonderful for you to take your time to share it with the rest of us.
Ras95 - I'm thinking about you, wondering how you're doing with Pee Wee Herman there. Sending you a hug!
Well for us it was easy to know when he THOUGHT he found the one for him. He did put a ring on my finger within 5 weeks of meeting! That is why I am having so much trouble with this. How can you love someone enough to do that and then write them off so quickly! I guess that knowing what I know now, I was too much for him to handle. I need intimacy and communication and when it doesn't happen I feel hurt and then I take off-- the reason I haven't plunked down on his couch is because when he said I couldn't come home I was left homeless because I rented out my house so I was forced to move 12 hours away for a job. I did try to communicate through texts but he wouldn't answer them. Now I am left waiting him out. I can do it but I am afraid that we will lose what little connection we have by doing that but I don't want to talk about the weather. I am hoping he is processing and will contact me but I have a heavy feeling in my heart that he is just going to stick to this path because he thinks it will be easier emotionally for him to be single. The only chance I have left is to give him his space and let the universe sort it out. Part of the reason I am so confused on what to say if he does come around is because I am likely to just become emotional again. I will try to keep any communication short and to the point and non emotional without being distant. It will be a delicate balance if I do get the chance. He can take all the time in the world to find his way back to me. I have already forgiven him and myself and I believe I know enough now to make him happy if I go home but I am unsure if I will be happy I am looking at it as we are over so I can move on hopefully because I believe I need more even though my heart hurts now it will leave me free to be with someone who is a little more interestedin my needs too. Thanks for being so supportive it really helps to know others are as miserable as me! Lol
Well Jeeplady we might be miserable but we're still good company here.
I guess I'm still struggling with what you're holding on to with this guy. He was making you unhappy when you were with him. What is it you want to go back to? You are concerned that the distance will diminish "what little connection you do have". How "little" is that connection and what's it going to take to break it again even if you do get him back? The distance now doesn't appear to be what makes that connection little, it's what did - and didn't - go on before this split that is what is making it little. Not with you per se, but between the two of you. The imbalance in the give and take. Do you suppose that he has changed those bigger behavior patterns of his that you so disliked when you were together? Have you changed what your expectations are for what you will be looking for if you get back together. Nope and nope. Forgive him all you want, but don't settle for less than what your heart needs to be happy.
You know, in all this time with my Virgo I've never had the chance to see him enough to know if I'd ever get to the place that you are with yours. To KNOW how things might be between us. Maybe I'll have that chance at some point, who knows, but if that day were to come, and no matter how much time has passed by then, I still know I wouldn't stay with him if the relationship turned out to be less than what I really wanted for the long haul. Based on things you say, you seem to have hurt just as much with him as without him. The only way you are going to get out of hurt here is to put him and the relationship to the side and take that space you are talking about. Sounds like you know where to find him when you're ready, so don't rush yourself. Keep thinking about this. You are saying things to us here that I'm not convinced you are taking to heart yourself. If you didn't keep saying that you want this man I would feel sure that you had had enough of him and his behavior based on everything else you've said. Just my observation....
I can see how I would seem ambivalent I am a Gemini after all. I did mention the things I liked about him in an earlier post but I will try to elaborate on both of my twins thinking first, the negative; one moment I am convinced that he is a cold man who is so caught up in himself that what I feel and need isn't important to him and that he has done many hurtful things to me and all I did to him was leave. I know if I go back things will be the same he won't be there for me emotionally or any other way I need. Then I realize that there were alot of nice things he did for me (buying me snow tires and rims, putting my top on my jeep, going bowling every Sunday, buying me flowers, running me a bath, agreeing to go to counseling to learn how to communicate etc. etc. I also realize that he is basically a good natured guy and most of our problems came from him being unaware of what I needed. I did explain and he was trying. It was the horrible "thing" that happened that made me mire needy than usual and he just wasn't equipped to deal with it yet as we hadn't had our first counseling session yet. I also realize that I will never find anyone perfect. He was the closest thing to the man of my dreams that I have ever met. He was hardworking, tidy, outdoorsy, responsible yet fun. Everyone likes him, attractive, told me to be a housewife and not work (Ive worked my ass off as a single mom for 18 years) we were set for retirement, he looked after my jeep and was nice to my kids etc. There was a lot to build on and only one area to "fix" I think if I went back and we went to counseling to work on communication and empathy that I could grow old with this man. I do not mind arguements or having hurt feelings (I am incredibly sensitive--good luck not hurting them!) as long as I can talk about and get an apology I am fine. My problem is that he didn't know how to do that yet so matters were made worse when I tried to talk and I would end up leaving the house in anger which he hated! If I would have stayed we wouldn't be here. I will have work to do in any relationship around my sensitivity but he has a great base to build from. Yes he has beenvery coldhearted and immature since I left but I did bring it on by hurting him. It will be hard for him to trust his daily routine won't be compromised by me getting upset and leaving all the time. I believe even though he would say and do little thoughtless things theywere never with the intent of hurting me and he is probably confused about why I get upset as he is not sensitive. Hope that helps to clarify I drive myself crazy with my thoughts jumping all over the place. In the end the reason I want to go home is because the good outweighed the bad and I love him and I hope that we can make a few small adjustments to make eachother happy. We really were just getting to know eachother and it was to be expected to have a few hurdles. I really wish he saw it that way instead of thinking that a relationship should just work without work I really hope that his heart wins over his head and he decides to give us another chance. I think I can make it work if he is willing to get some skills and put some effort into our relationship.
Wow, Itsjeeplady sounds too good to be true. Now we hear the real story. Like I have always said there are always two sides to the story. Your emotions definitely were sending you all over the place. Do not let him get away if you love him... Don't bug him like a crazy person, but give him time to miss you and figure out how you can get him to trust you again. Wishing you lots of luck!
Hmm, Jeeplady, it does sound like he's not the only one who needs to apologize. I'm very sensitive too - overly sensitive - and I have had to do a lot of work on myself to understand that most of the time when I feel "hurt" it's because I expect other people to cater to my emotionalism. It's really unfair to put people on the spot just because they can't fill your need or calm your insecurities or give you what you want at the exact moment you want it. I wish I had a magic cure for where that stuff comes from but I don't. All I know is that it comes from inside oneself and there's no one else who can really calm it but yourself. It's something I continue to work on in myself and for me personally, I find trust at the root of it. Distrust in others fuels distrust in myself. Sorry, hard for me to articulate it exactly, but I know that's where mine comes from. My work is to trust myself in all I do and that will keep me out of making unreasonable demands for others to solve what I need to solve myself.
It's so easy to lose oneself to a relationship, especially us emotional types. But ask yourself what he saw in you at the beginning that so "wowed" him that he wanted to marry you just five weeks later? You say you were a hard-working single mom. It sounds like you had your act together. I'm a hardworking single mom myself. I know how much work it is and what it takes to hold it all together and how much responsibility you carry. We are tough gals for the most part. So something in your relationship with your man unraveled that strong person that you were and is pulling out all your weaknesses. Making you someone I suspect that you really don't want to be? If you really believe that he doesn't mean to do this to you, that he is a good man at heart, then what does that tell you about what's going on between you two?
Is it his job to fix himself so that your weaknesses don't deteriorate the relationship or is that your job? If dealing with him brings out emotions that you are unhappy about, then how can he ever stop causing that reaction in you when he doesn't think he is doing anything wrong to begin with. Somewhere in all of this he probably feels a little cheated as well. When things got bumpy in the relationship and he couldn't tell if you were coming or going. Probably asked himself, "what happened to that amazing woman I met, who had herself so pulled together, working hard, raising her kids and generally taking life in stride. Where did she go?" Truly there is a deep issue of trust here that will take time to mend. As much as you want him to "change his mind" it may not be about him changing his mind, it may be just as much about you demonstrating to him that you are someone he can put his trust in.
I'm not saying he doesn't have his flaws. I assume he does because we all do. But you can already see in yourself the reasons that he might have lost faith in you and made him believe that he couldn't trust you to be the kind of steady person that he might need. Some of his "coldness" and "immaturity" may not be either, it may just be his unwillingness to invest himself in someone he simply can't understand. Maybe it's a struggle that he doesn't want to deal with all the time and maybe he never will know how to talk things through because he doesn't really want to know how. Some people simply are not that deep in their thinking. This doesn't make them bad, it's just who they are, and they will never join you in exploring deep emotions. The idea that if you two get back together, that the first thing you need to do is head for the counselors office to figure out how to get along is a pretty significant issue. It seems that he saw you as one thing starting out and you turned out to be another. Same goes for him. He turned out to be diffferent than you expected.
I'm not saying I think there's no future here, I'm actually admitting my own flaws in how I approach relationships as a "sensitive person", lol, and asking you to keep thinking about what your expectations are, and whether you are being entirely fair to yourself in how you contemplate your next steps here. If being with him is going to do nothing but keep pulling out weaknesses in you that you can't resolve then no amount of talking is going to make this relationship work. He isn't going to fix himself just to fix you - or he wouldn't have said things are over. First commit yourself to what you want to feel within yourself and that will go a long way to smoothing the path for how much "work" he would have to do to keep you content. Clearly he wanted to do things to make you happy, but what he views as loving gestures fall short of what you want/need. Don't make compromises to bring you two back together hoping to work the relationship out later, figure some of this stuff out now. I see your Gemini mind racing around in circles viewing this from all angles. I still think you need to settle down and dig a little deeper on what you really need. It's easy to look at the list of attributes he has - all those nice things he did and how reliable, hardworking and what a nice guy is...but... And it's that "but" that is so important here because it ties in with what your heart needs. As a wise friend recently reminded me - love and security are not the same thing. Ideally you can have them both, but they are not one and the same and one doesn't always come with the other. Plenty of relationships have security but they have little love. Which one are you looking for most? Is general security and just having someone worth making compromises on love? Think on it some more....
Hugs to you! I don't mean to be negative, but these are negative situations we are dealing with and there are underlying negative reasons that create them. Need to dig them up and resolve them. Believe me when I say, there is nothing I've said here to you that I don't continue meditating on in myself in some way. It's so important to figure out how to keep ourselves happy and content so that we don't feel such need to be so concerned with other people and what they do or don't bring into our lives. That's not the same as indifference, it's just making sure that negativity and "lack" don't rule you.
Thanks for all the comments and for taking the time to write such an insightful reply. It is a very wise statement that it is unrealistic and unfair to expect someone to cater to my immediate emotional needs and that I should dig deep to resolve these underlying feelings of hurt so that I can depend on myself for happiness. The childish side of me still would hope my significant other would want to comfort me so perhaps my balance scales tip more towards the love side than the security side. I do need both though. I understand it's mostly from childhood abandonment issues but I also recognize that if I do not improve on this area of my personality there is a real possibility I will never be happy in a relationship because most people are self focused as I appear to be. That was a good question to make me reflect. If he is a good man at heart and doesn't mean to hurt me then what is really going on. Apparently I am projecting untrue thoughts onto the situation and causing myself to be hurt. Perhaps even creating drama and chaos to satisfy my mind that seems to enjoy the work of untangling it. Now if I could only do that without affecting the other person until I can learn to control it altogether lol. I didn't really look at it like fixing himself in order to fix me. I need to reflect on this more because I am feeling an aversion to that statement. I looked at it more like both of us gaining the necessary communication and empathy tools that would be necessary to sustain a long relationship. I have been reading a book called the art of happiness by the Dalai Lama and Howard C. Cutler I really recommend this book! I will share a few exerpts that apply to our conversation....Nyon Mong refers to negative states of mind that afflict from within. This long term is usually shortened to "delusions" (lol makes sense!) this Nyon Mong spontaneously afflicts your mind, destroys your peace of mind or brings about a disturbance in your psyche when it arises. These afflictive emotions, cognitive events or "delusions" can ultimately be rooted out and eliminated from our minds. The first premise is that thesestates of mind are distorted, in that they are doted in misperceiving the actual reality of the situation. No matter how powerful, deep down these negative emotions have no valid foundation. They are based on ignorance. Therefore, there seems to be a general consensus among all Buddhist traditions that in order to FULLY overcome these negative tendencies, one must apply the antidote to ignorance--the wisdom factor. This is indispensable. The wisdom factor involves generating insight into the true nature of reality. He then goes on to explain how to do that. Quite valuable information in this book. I am now fighting myself on whether to contact my V or not. How much space do I give him? Do I wait for him to contact me? I could die first even if he does contact me it may not mean he is open to a relationship. I'm wondering a couple of things...I've waited three weeks...perhaps I should start mailing him letters. I wrote one last night just friendly to open contact. I let him know how the job is going and thanked him for looking after my cat and furniture until I can get it moved. Perhaps I can progress onto more personal matters in the next one in a couple of weeks, let him know I have learned where I went wrong and am taking steps to fix it so I won't hurt my next partner. I'm thinking if we are ever going to get back together it will take friendly contact and as you said Jenever to win his trust back. Perhaps it will help to initiate some contact. Perhaps it would push him further away I am unsure. Oh and ariesburnsbright I have apologized a few times for leaving and for not managing my emotions better and for hurting him. He has not apologized for anything but after the last couple of posts I am beginning to see his position even more and also as a wise woman once said we are not all into delving into deep emotion. I don't believe it is in his makeup and if I hadn't created all this drama and been able to handle myself better I would riding beside him on his cart of stableness that I so needed but decided to upset! Oh to have met you ladies sooner thank you for your brutal honesty lol and merry christmas to you and yours!
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Just wishing a happy christmas to everyone on this thread
Jeeplady - Thank you so much for taking my comments in the spirit they were intended. Certainly I wouldn't ask or expect you to agree on all points, I just know it's hard to see ourselves sometimes and recognize things that we could improve in ourselves to make our relationships happier. It's really hard to change behaviors we've grown comfortable with, even when they aren't always in our best interest.
I'll tell you the story of my epiphany on my personal tendency to "over-react". That was when "Scorp guy" dropped back in my life (I talk about him in this thread). Old high school boyfriend, said he'd been looking for me for years, still had feelings, showered me with attention, said all the right things, we finally hooked up and things went well the first visit, not so well the second visit, and the icing on the cake was one week I got really sick. A nasty flu or something had me laid up for a week with fever and a variety of other maladies that go with the flu. I literally could barely get up for a glass of water. Logging on the computer was the last thing on my mind.
When I finally did check my mail I found that Scorp had e-mailed me. Then three days later he had e-mailed me again just automatically assuming that because I had not responded that I was no longer interested in him. My God, I had talked or communicated with him daily for nearly two months. Every single day! Yet rather than assume I might have a logical reason for not replying, or pick up the dang phone and call, he went off the deep end and entirely on his own assumed that I didn't care anymore. Frankly, it was at that moment that I decided that he really was not the guy for me. His general demeanor was often about how much he loved me and what he was willing to do for me. You know, I never asked him for anything at all other than to be himself and we'd see how things went between us. I was actually feeling some level of pressure over the idea that I wasn't giving him the same level of emotion that he was pushing on me and his e-mail clinched it for me. His resentment that I didn't reply when he wanted me to was not something I wanted to deal with.
You know, it made no difference to me that he was a former boyfriend other than we had some shared memories. Thirty years had passed, he was a grown man with a lifetime of experiencces shaping him - I didn't know him from a stranger really. He was moving too fast and his emotions were too extreme. But at the same time I recognized how often I have reacted this way in relationships myself at times. Impatiently wanting things to be a certain way and not trusting that the situation could simply evolve calmly over time. Trying to push it along.
Scorp guy and I still talk regularly. I personally don't see a romantic future between us, but I enjoy him as a friend. I told him candidly why his behavior troubles me. He admits that he is wary of getting hurt and that the smallest doubt triggers him to retreat - more content to find excuses to end things rather than to take a risk that might lead to hurt. If he sets up the "ending" then he's in control and feels better about it. But see I can't fix that in him and I don't want the job. His attitude is, "well all I do is give, give, give - all I do is love - and I still end up hurt". It's so not true - he makes a big deal about what he gives because it justifies what he needs to TAKE from me and then gets bent out of shape because I wasn't giving him enough. I don't want to spend all of my time taking care of him emotionally and having to feed him love instead of just being able to relax and be loving in my own way. The way he wants to be loved is very, very specific and he will continue to fail in relationships, in my opinion, until he understands that no one is going to love him exactly the way he wants them to. So now I can look at myself and be aware of when I am acting like Scorp guy. Because I KNOW I've behaved the same way. It was very educational to have the tables turned on me like that. It doesn't solve that in me, but it made me aware, and that's a good start.
As far as communicating with your guy, I'm still in favor of calling him up. The trouble with these long, thought out letters (omg, if you only knew how many I've written, lol) is that you will continue to angst waiting for a reply. From what I've learned through knowing my Virgo, is these letters really don't help much anyway. They don't want to reply and most often my V didn't. Or if he did, he totally avoided the issues.
My V doesn't like this emotional stuff, he'd rather I figure it out on my own and leave him out of it. He will read anything I write, but very rarely will he participate in solving my emotions - especially if I try to accuse him of causing the issue. His practical solution for that is, well then you need to figure out what you want to do. I know that sounds awful, but at the same time I know he doesn't mean it to be (and I have to accept that his personal situation right now is an emotional disaster in many directions - so adding to it is unhelpful in the big picture - I think he's got all he can handle). He's giving to the relationship in the only way he knows how, he admits he's terrible at expressing his feelings, and says he tries to be more sensitive, but, "it is what it is".
And after all this time I think I finally start to see that this is the honest truth with my V. He just doesn't get it, he's not wired that way, viewing emotional situations to him is like having someone next to you having a heart-attack and not knowing how to do CPR. He's helpless to assist and needs you to be...well...he needs you to not be having any heart-attacks, lol. So Jeeplady, as much as you feel you have things you need to say, my suggestion would be to do whatever you have to to put that aside and create something safe and calm between you two at this time. If you really want to build that trust back with him, this is what I believe you'll want to do, and move your way slowly back to talking about the deeper issues. Sounds like you already see that, and I'm agreeing with you.
The challenge to you in all of this is, can you deal with your emotions yourself or is it going to continue to bother you that he's not willing to participate? Seriously, some people like to deal with their own stuff and some people like to have a shoulder to lean on. There's nothing better about one or the other, in my opinion anyway (I'm in the "deal with my own stuff" camp though, so keep that in mind), it's just a matter of knowing what you need. So yep, I'd call him so you don't have to wait and wonder what's on his mind, talk to him about the furniture and the cat and the job. Be sure to ask about his work if that makes sense. Nothing gets a Virgo cozy like talking about his work. If you get a bad vibe, keep it short. Give him some more time and try again. How long? There's no magic number, whatever feels right to you. Don't try to play this as a game because you'll just make yourself unhappy. Just try to deal with him as you would any of your friends. If you really don't feel comfortable speaking to him on the phone, then write that letter, but don't get "heavy" on him and don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. It's too easy for him not to reply. Give him some breathing room and DO NOT include that statement about improving yourself for your "next partner". You might think that he doesn't care right now, but until you know that 100% for sure, unless you really want to end things, don't let him think he's not number one.
Okay, that's all I've got for now, lol. Oh, wait, about the reading you spoke of - I want to tell you that I really love Don Miguel Ruiz's little books for some quick ways to change your way of thinking. Most people are probably familiar with his book "The Four Agreements" but he has quite a few others, all very enlightening. His book, "The Mastery of Love" is a good one to address how we view relationships. Check them out if you get a chance, I think you would like them.