The heart of a Virgo man
Jen, I am really enjoying talking with you as well. It seems like we have alot in common.
I thank you for all your support.
Do you text your Virgo? I believe you said you do and that you don't always get a reply.
I guess I find it odd to not be acknowledged as I would never not reply to someone who has texted me but to them it seems the norm.
Sometimes I will text something as simple as "How is your day going, I am thinking of you" and i get nothing so then me being the person I am will follow up with "Do you think we can talk soon?" ...still nothing!! Then I start driving myself crazy..why isn't he answering? So again I might send something like "Shall I just stop contacting you"? no reply again and then I send "I give up" and finally a reply "I'll call you tomorrow".
This is what it is like. I've asked him out right DO YOU WANT ME TO WALK AWAY? BE honest with me? and he will say nooooo!!! adamently. I'll ask "Do you love me"? yes is the answer always and if i ask that via text he always says "Yesssss" just like that.
He talks about how he hates to hurt me and see me pained. He once told me that he thought you could love 2 people at the same time. He also one time said he can not divorce his wife although in the beginning of our talks he asked me "Do you think that you are meant to be with one person all your life"?
Jen I think you and I have been brought together, the day I found this post I had asked for a sign to not give up. A sign to tell me that he loves me and I found this post and you. I hope it was the sign I was looking for.
The last time we spoke and he said he would call me before he left and didn't he had calmed me as he always does (he has the most amazing voice) and kept saying I will call you before I leave I promise, I promise and then he said "Okay baby? I love you" ...that kills me when he calls me baby and he knows it.
Well I am at work right now and writing this brings tears to my eyes so I had better get back to work. Looking forward to more posts and talks with you.
As for Messanger, I too am waiting to hear the rest of your story. Thanks for sharing
btw Jen, I noticed a comment you made earlier in one of your posts it went something like this
I may have have to face that I have only been a part of his "journey" and not the "destination".
Did he say this to you? I ask because I remember my Virgo saying something similar to me in the beginning " its not the journey that is important but the destination" or something like that.
hmm Funny ..
I have met a virgo man online and we started dating. After a while i found out that he's on a dating site and on loads of other flirting sites. He played on me, cheated on me and lied to me. So no more virgos in my life lol I think it's really something in their astrological sign.
HI Ameli. Have you stopped seeing him? moved on? I'm not surprised that more and more people are going to these sites (dating/flirting) as it is so readily available at their fingertips. I'm sure for some men it is very tempting not meaning to be sexist i'm sure for some women too.
My Virgo and I have yet to have relations in that way so he can't be using me (for what?) why string me along , tell me he loves me all the time, ask me to wait , give him some time...time for what is what I want to know. What am I waiting for? I've never dated a Virgo or been remotely connected to one. I can see that they can be detached.. true. What was your Virgo like at first? and as time progressed.
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Dttn - I am flattered that you feel that we have been brought together and I very much appreciate what you're saying as I too ask God for signs that I am on the right path and almost without fail, I receive them. So I will take it that you are correct and that there is good reason for us to have found each other. Frankly, and I may have said it in a previous post, I very much feel this about my Virgo and even he sees it. There have been far too many coincidences -a couple of big ones and loads of little ones that aren't earth-shattering but certainly make us both say, "wow, that's weird" - in our coming together. It’s beyond pure chance at this point. I believe his words were, "I don't know why or where it's going, but there is no doubt in my mind that we're together for a reason". (Maybe just so that I'd end up on the Tarot.com forum so I could talk to you dttn!)
In answer to your question, I am the one who made the comment about the journey and the destination. Mostly because, even thought I think that in "R's" mind (going forward I'm just going to refer to him as "R" instead of my Virgo, for convenience, ok) we are headed to a certain place, I have more life experience to know that things don't always work out the way we intended. Most definitely I've had more relationships to retrospect on than "R" since he got married at the age of 20 when his 18 year old girlfriend got pregnant. Other than having other affairs (I am not going to pretend that this is his first experience in infidelity), I doubt that he really knows how a "normal" relationship might go. I think that you and I would both be unrealistic to think that affairs have the same ability to develop as two people who are free and clear of all constraints. Having no previous experience in this sort of thing, however, what do I know, haha! In fact, on my worst days, I've considered telling "R" that I'm thinking I'll find some guy to marry for convenience and just keep having an affair with him. You know, put us on a level playing field.
I suppose that's a different perspective to you, since you are married as well. Hmmm, you know that would change the dynamics quite a bit come to think about it. See "R" knows I can take a hike any time I want. The world is my oyster as far as finding some other guy. Your guy naturally sees you as being in a somewhat restricted situation. Sure, you could go find another man, but it would be another affair, not like me who might actually find a man to marry with the result being the end of "R" and I. Mind you I'm just speculating here, just kinda thinking out loud as I ponder on things, but I just wonder if that marriage thing has some affect on his perspective. Your marriage may actually keep him feeling safe from any real consequence if he's a bit, shall we say, negligent towards you. Or is it the opposite - maybe he sees you as unavailable, so why get too serious on his end. NO way am I suggesting you divorce to see what would happen, so don't go there, lol. But really, thinking about it now, it is quite a difference between you and I. Although it doesn't seem to be altering some huge commonalities between our Virgo men and their behavior, lol.
Now getting back to those Virgo guys...ah yes, the voice. It falls over you like a warm blanket, makes you feel so cozy and safe and secure. I know that voice. I love that voice and the affect that it has. I describe it as he "puts peace in my heart" - never felt anything like it. And the pet name; mine is "hun" for "honey". He started calling me that from the day we met on-line. I remember pointing out how cheeky it was for him to think he could call me "hun" when I didn't even know him. He just did it anyway.
You know "R" actually admitted to me that during our entire conversation the first time we met on-line he was testing me. Tossing stuff out to see how I would respond. I wish now I had a transcript of it since I'm sure it would reveal a lot to me in retrospect. But I really wasn't even taking him seriously mainly because of our age differences. For what it's worth though, since our guys seem very similar, I will tell you what "R" admitted was the thing that "hooked" him to me - that actually got him to a place where he became determined that he wanted to meet me no matter what it took. It was when I "put up a wall" as he described it. He kept trying to charm me and I wasn't having anything to do with it. I posed a challenge because I wasn't afraid to stand up for myself and I left no impression that I needed him for a date or anything else, lol. I wasn't mean about it mind you, but I do recall enough to know that it was certainly there. Because I certainly was emotionally in that place at that time. Now was it the "challenge of the hunt" that drew him to me or was it my independence....ah, one still has to wonder. Historically I have gotten the same results as you when I threaten to go, although during our last argument when I said, "well maybe it's time to say our goodbyes then", he did reply, "do what you have to do".
Actually I wasn't even on the dating site for me, my friend asked if I would go there to critique her profile because she wasn't getting many responses. I literally filled in the required boxes, threw together two completely indifferent sentences about myself (only because it was required), no pic at all and hit "go". All I intended to do was check out my friends profile and delete myself. Well I hadn’t been on there 3 minutes trying to find her profile when "R" sent me an IM. We talked for over two hours straight and decided to meet that night. I knew within ten minutes of being with him, this one was different. Suffice to say that my life hasn’t been the same since. All I was going to do was hop on that dating site and hop off, wasn’t even looking for a man at that time. Now tell me that our meeting was some kind of accident. I don’t think so. Although I now blame my friend, the one who asked me to check out her profile, for being the cause of “R” and all his complications in my life, lol.
Ok, dttn, here was my day with “R” and it ought to make you feel better. We planned three days ago to get together today. I said be sure to let me know when you’ll be over so I’m not left hanging. Fast forward to this morning, I still had not heard from him at all. So I sent an IM, “Still getting together today? Yes?” Couple hours later he IM’d back he was working and just having lunch. So I called him. He said he was hoping to have the job done soon and would call me no later than 3 p.m. TWICE he said that, “no later than 3”.
By 4 o’clock, with no word of course, I tried calling to see what was up. No answer. At 5 o’clock he finally called, “sorry hun, but today’s just not going to work”. (No kidding?) So I said, “well, I’m off work tomorrow too, would that be better?” “Oh no, that’s even worse, my busiest day of the week”. So my heart is sinking knowing now it will be over a week that I’ll even have a chance to see him (I have my sons every other week and we never get together those weeks.) Then he says, “it has to be Friday”. I immediately said, “but you know I’m not off until 2 on Friday, and get the boys at 6.” So he says, “but I cleared my schedule and moved my afternoon job to Monday so that I can be with you. I wanted things all clear so I wouldn’t disappoint you.” AAAAAARGH!
It sounds so thoughtful doesn’t it? He is actually moving his work schedule to make time to spend with me. Yeah, except that I won’t believe it’s happening until I see it, and how does one explain the fact that he couldn’t have simply pulled the same thing off today when he had three days to plan it? Why not do today’s job on Friday? These are not questions worth asking btw, because I will not get a straight answer. Today his work just ended up bumping me and that’s that. Will Friday really be any different? Who knows? Do I hurt a little bit every time he makes and breaks plans? You bet I do, and I also get a little angry for how it alters how I might have planned my day otherwise. These are the days that always push me to the edge, and there are far too many of them. I’m not necessarily blaming him. The man is supporting a wife and four kids, he’s got to work. Just would it have killed him to call me for 2 seconds earlier in the day and tell me our plans were off? Then, before he hung up, he told me to log on the IM tonight at ten so he can say “hi” before he goes to bed. (Nice extra touch, eh?) I have about zero confidence that he will actually be there at ten, but of course I will check and when he’s not, I’ll leave my “hi” just to let him know I didn’t forget HIM.
So, you feeling better now dttn? Lol.
Hi Jen, I read this late lastnight and thought of you wondering if he was on msn at 10 as he said he would be. I was exhausted after reading your post so went to bed to think about all the things you said so I could mull them over and post a reply this morning.
R certainly knows how to push your buttons and move your heart. I do hope for your sake that he is not dragging you along. I do believe he loves you. I was thinking back to my affair with my Scorpio man and how painful that was but how wonderful at the same time. We still keep in touch and remain very good friends. Funny , I probably talk to him more than my Virgo, what am I saying ..I do talk to him more. My Scorpio was (and still is...lol.) 5 years younger than me, I met him when he was 40. At that time his kids were 2 and 5 (and believe me when i say he adores them, they are his life and still are). We fell in love. Hard. Deeply. My scorpio and I spent so much time together, we saw each other atleast 3 times a week and spoke on the phone 2,3,4 times a day not to mention the texting and emails. He loved me this I know (and yes still does) but could not bring himself to leave his family and this i understand totally , my god my daughter is 20 and I can't do it either. I can't do that to her I just can't. So I understood I really did as you must with R. Do I love my hubby? My Libra.?..yes but we connect on a different level, more like long time friends and family...not lovers...not passion! R probably has this with his wife, the only thing is can he live with that and only that or does he continue to have affairs?
He probably didn't expect to meet someone like you and it's thrown him and confused him. Cancers can be very grounded I know my daughter is one. My Scorpio and I broke up probably 5 times but never for more than 6-8 weeks and stayed in touch the whole time we were parted.
Finally almost 2 years ago we decided that we could not continue to have this relationship on this level , for him he found it hard to keep our life separate from his life and struggled with the reality of being with and loving 2 women (2 very different women). He is happy now (as happy as can be expected) and occasionally asks to see me but I can't go there because it could start all over again. So you see you can be friends as long as you have the will. When someone touches your life like that its hard to just let go and never ever have contact. My husband knows that we still stay in touch and yes he does have a bit of a problem with it but I have told him that he meant alot to me and I just can't close that door on a friendship that was so awesome.
I like speaking with my Scorpio and I will say I rarely call him, he does all the calling to me. I love to hear whats going on with his kids, his life, his family, job... the good and the bad and we have had many philosophical discussions on life in general and sometimes he'll call just to say hi, how are you. I know I could count on him.
I think it rare to have something like that and not everyone could do it.
Now back to my Virgo!! He is sooo different. My Scorpio spoiled me with contact, he was always there ready to make plans, seize opportunities and reply to me always. My Virgo does not so this is my conundrum. I'm not used to this. As you said earlier would it have killed him to take 2 seconds to say earlier in the day "today is not going to work out"? This is the part that drives me insane. My Virgo promises he will call, or text more but doesn't. But the strange thing is that he did in the beginning. Like i said he called daily atleast once and texted every morning afternoon and night before bed to say Goodnight my love.
I once said to him "I feel like I'm at the bottom of the list, the last one to have your atttention"
This seems to be true of Virgos, they seem to be into whatever it is they are into at the time and nothing breaks that attention. Even if I text him during the day and I know he is working he still doesn't reply sometimes. I've said to him "I don't care if you reply 5 hours later, atleast its a reply". You know what he said to me the other day. He said (after not seeing me since Feb) "I think I know what you are feeling, I'm starting to understand" WTF is that?
I'm not sure if he will be home Friday or Sunday this week. He is away with friends and family up north. He said if it was okay he would be there 4 nights and if it was good he stay a couple extra nights meaning he would be home Sunday. Its a holiday here on Monday so I'll see if I hear from him on Tuesday. Any suggestions? Do I wait to hear from him?
He said last week that we should get together to talk when he comes back but I know once again I will take the back seat to his job until he catches up from being away.
So I wait!! and wait! I try to keep busy.
Dttn, I will reply to you tomorrow night, when by that time we will know if "R" really makes it over to see me, despite claiming that he has cleared his schedule all afternoon for the sole purpose of seeing me and not leaving me in disappointment. Ha!!!
How is it I'm always reading that Virgos are sticklers for schedules and punctuality. Maybe ours just have some really bad planetary mix, like some Gemini tossed in there or something?
Dttn - brief update. He was supposed to come by 2:30, that changed to 5, then there was a huge communication void, heard from him finally around 8:30(!) said he was still coming over - work and stuff dragged out, but he was going to shower up and get over here. It's 9:45, so let's see what happens next. Will give you the details at a later time. No surprises here to you, are there. Pretty standard stuff - left hanging and wondering. I admit, I am hoping that he will still arrive....better late than never? I am not so sure....
Jen sorry to hear, rough day I'm sure...lets catch up tomorrow
Dttn, sounds good, I'm working all day tomorrow but will try to follow up tomorrow night. He did make it by the way and we had a very nice conversation. I'll give you details later, but yes, it was a challenge not to get mad today, but I didn't hesitate to tell him how very frustating he was to me today.
It sounds like you really care for this man and find it hard to stay away for very long. First of all I want to share with you that being involved with a married man is immoral regardless of if you love him or he loves you. Secondly, how could you ever trust each other if you build a future on deciept together knowing that he cheated on his wife with you? That makes you a cheater too! Most people get caught up in the relationship and think that the "end will justify the means", but most will end up in nothing but misery for all involved. I have grown children in their 20s and 30s now, and have seen and experianced it all. My children are still reeling from their fathers indescression and cheating. Even though he married the woman and has been married for over ten years, my children still haven't forgiven him from cheating on me and leaving me after a 19 year marriage. I have moved on, but the residual negative effects continue in my three kids lives. My 26 year old daughter doesn't trust men and has trouble picking good men. My 30 year old daughter has had a few abussive relationships, and now is in a great loving relationship but is affraid of marriage. She thinks all men cheat and will leave the woman after years of marriage and when she is old, for a younger woman. My 35 year old son has a 13 year old son and picked disfunctional women in the past and is having trouble in his current relationship. If you think your actions will only affect you and the man, you are sadly mistaken! Think about the consequences of your actions for yourself and any children who will base their relationship perceptions and futures on watching your choices. I feel bad like I am lecturing you, but this is only out of true concern that I am sharing this with you. I wish someone had shared all of this with me when I needed it. I feel that women don't value themselves when they make these types of decisions to stay involved with these kind of men. I don't care how bad a man has it at home, that doesn't make it ok to destroy other people's lives. That is just plain selfish on his part. You are being used! If you don't respect yourself, at least show respect to your children and get out of that toxic relationship. Find someone who values you, so you can live a life of truth and integrity! Don't settle! I have settled for men who were not worthy of me in the past. I won't do that anymore. I am taking care of myself now. I have a heart to share with women and to help them learn to love themselves first and foremost. Because if you don't love yourself, you can't really love someone else with a pure love. You are just needy and desperate. Women deserve a real love, a love that does not have reservations (like a wife on the side), a love that is unselfish and committed. I hope you consider these words and find strength to end this relationship. You and your kids are worth it!!!!!!!!!
Wow singingintherain while I am sorry to hear how things have gone with you, I also can't help but think that with the amount of bitterness you are still harboring it's little wonder it transfers to your children. Can you find nothing in you to forgive your ex so that you can free yourself from all that negativity and help your children to forgive him as well? They deserve a relationship with their father. Do YOU encourage them to forgive him? Maybe their fears and uncertain decisions are based on the fact that they love you and are attaching their feelings to your pain? Over ten years here and nobody is forgiving anybody? It's a sad situation. All the things that you have just told me, say them to yourself. Your husband was a cheater, didn't you deserve better? By getting out of things, as badly as he handled things, it freed you from a man who obviously didn't love you and gave you the opportunity to go find a more genuine love. As you say, "a love that is unselfish and committed."
When you make the statement, "I don't care how bad a man has it at home, that doesn't make it ok to destroy other people's lives". I struggle with that. If I were still with my husband I wouldn't have felt one ounce of guilt or remorse for cheating on him such was the lack of love, respect or sensitivity he had for me. So in effect you would tell me, "I don't care how bad you had it at home, that doesn't make it right to destroy other people's lives." It was perfectly fine for my husband to be happy at my expense??? I'm very sorry but I don't think so. I actually do love myself more than that. Is it so impossible to accept that perhaps my Virgo feels he doesn't deserve to be treated like crap either but as the head of a household he's trying to tough it out anyway?
Nobody in my situation is rushing into anything either, and I'm not to go on defending what my Virgo is doing, because I really do think that he is looking at the big picture here and dealing with his responsibilities and I KNOW he loves his children and will do what's best for them, obviously at the expense of his personal happiness - even at the expense of me. I don't think that I am "settling", I think that I am in a process of deciding whether to stay or go - nothing is settled here.
How can I trust that it's worth sticking with my "cheater" down the road? I can't really. How can I possibly know at this point. Trust is not something you can just hand to someone, it's something you earn. He married his wife at the age of 20, doing what he thought was the right thing when she became pregnant at the age of 18. They didn't marry for love they married for a "love child". He trusted that she would love and support him in life anyway, simply for trying to make a good life for her and their children. Somehow she broke that trust, and yet out of some sense of morality you would have me believe that it's okay for her to do that? He should just "suck it up" and deal with it? I'd say that's actually what the better part of his life has been about - sacrificing for the good of everyone else.
Sometimes it's not a case of the means justifying the ends, sometimes the means is more of a process that shapes the ends. Anything could change here. I can also assure you that the "strength" lies not in my leaving this relationship, but in sticking with it long enough to figure out what it all means for either of us. As hard as it appears for many people in this thread to believe, there may just be the chance that this man really cares for me. I certainly care for him, but as I thought I made clear, not enough at this time to sacrifice other opportunities for happiness. All options are open. I've been burned in relationships before, if that's how this one ends up, well I doubt that one more time will kill me. But I'm giving this one time because the relationship keeps evolving in a positive direction and at a generally measured pace. For all any of us really knows, even him (!) the struggles in sorting out things between he and I may actually be having the side-affect of causing his situation with his wife to evolve as well. Perhaps reawakening loving feelings will inspire him to be more loving towards his wife. Who knows??? Anything is possible....
Dttn - After over an hour of conversation on our "relationship" last night, all I can tell you is either find some patience or get off of the roller-coaster. Fact of the matter is, I think you and I put way more thought into all of this than these guys do, at least the "day to day" aspects of the relationship. My growing sense is that "R" has everything sorted out in his mind and is just taking anything I do along the way in stride. I think that explains why, if I e-mail him or call him and I don't hear back for a day...or two...or three, or if I get worked up emotionally he doesn't seem to take me seriously. It's because in his "big picture" view on life, these are all petty details. I think the whole dang problem is that he seems to have an infinite amount of patience about seeing where things go with us, because, at least in the case of mine, he either already thinks he knows where things will go or he thinks that things will go wherever they're meant to go; "time will tell".
I have to tell you though, Dttn, there is no shortage of mental action going on in this at the same time. I know that seems contradictory, but bear with me. "R" admitted to me that throughout our recent argument, he was never actually mad at me at all, he was very calculatingly "working" the conversation to demonstrate to me that he was not going to be told what to do. When I pointed out, "well isn't that a manipulative on your part? Why do you have to resort to manipulation, why can't we operate in honesty?" To which he said, "aren't you being manipulative yourself? Aren't you trying to get what you want from me in your own way?" (Specifically referring to the tone of e-mails that were designed to get him to do something that I want - i.e. "answer me"!! Lol.) Well...yes, that is indeed what I'm usually up to...but is that so wrong, that I would expect/want a reply if I sent him a message? But you see, somehow to him this is so simple; I send him a message, he gets it, but he literally seems to see no urgency in replying depending on what else is going on that day. I should just always know that he got it, and he will respond, eventually.
His "theme" of the entire discussion was this: "you need to spend less time thinking about words and paying attention to actions". In his mind, and given all the demands in his life, as far as he is concerned he is giving me all of the attention he possibly can. He said that he completely understood that during our recent disagreement what I was really offering him was an "open door" to walk away from our relationship. But as he sat there next to me, he stated simply, "yet I am here".
We really did not discuss where things are headed. I think it goes without saying that given the sense of this being a turning point here lately that we need to get through some time here and see if this current situation will hold up. I'll remind you that I agreed to "let him take things from here". (Which has really been a brilliant idea, because even though I am still prone to let my mind wander endlessly on that subject, at the same time it released me of a lot of responsibility for having to figure out any immediate answer, which in turn ratcheted down my angst-level significantly.)
The big surprise for me was this though, when I suddenly did a complete reversal and made the decision to support him and try things his way, he admitted that I "made him really nervous". This willingness to quit trying to push things in any direction, and actually support him and let him lead was "so out of character" for my behavior up to now that he couldn't help but be suspicious of my motives. he said that he sees me as a very independent woman and that I don't need him and that he just figured I was all about, "if you don't want to do it my way, well the heck with you I'll go find someone else". My new position on matters threw him for a real loop. I told him the real truth was that I couldn't fight with him, or myself, over things anymore and so it was either try his way or I would let "us" go. So I blindsided him pretty good with that one, lol.
Soooo mental though, Dttn, everything going on with "R" has a very complicated mental aspect to it that I am only starting to understand. This feels very much about "are you up to the mental challenge of dealing with me"? One minute he's telling me how he's "managing" our situation through how he treats me and what he says to me, the next minute he was saying something like, "I honestly don't even know why you've kept me around when I know you could easily find someone else." Somewhere in all of this I think he has a very specific notion of what he wants in a woman and a relationship, and everything that goes on in between is a constant test to see if I'm going to hold that place or am I going to end the game either by choice, or through my actions (i.e. am I going to behave in such a way that I "fail" his standard.) He's always trying to get me to believe that he's a very simple man with very simple needs and so laid back, just kind of letting life happen, when in fact it is obvious that he is thinking things through quite thoroughly about me. I also know that his work and family life are anything but laid back.
Anyway, I think I'm starting to get a glimpse now into what's going on inside his head, and it's a very complicated world in there. I believe there was a post on here a while back from a Virgo man who suggested something to the effect of "keep 'em guessing if you want to keep him hanging around", as well as warning about how "mental" Virgo men are. I'll have to go back and re-read that one.
So how are things with you?
Sorry for the delay in responding, it was a holiday weekend up here and a very busy one at that.
Well i am certainly glad for you that "R" came through for you and didn't leave you guessing on Friday although it must have been a long day waiting and waiting. Why do we spend so much time doing that? Right at this moment I am waiting ..... waiting to hear from my Virgo who would have arrived home either on Friday or Sunday from his trip yet I hear nothing. So I wait. I try to keep myself busy at work and convince myself I don't need to hear from him, I don't need him in my life, Do I really love him anyway? I try to find faults in him (and believe me there are many) but I still just want to talk to him. It's funny you talk about leaving things in "R"s hands letting him take the reigns so to speak and this is what I have been playing with in my mind all weekend.
One of my biggest problems is that I cave and text my Virgo when I haven't heard from him and I think this has to stop and it creates alot of anxiety for me. I text, he doesn't reply , I text again, no reply, until I start to get upset and it shows in my texts because he tells me so and then finally he replies and then calls the next day, we talk , he calms me down and then the whole cycle starts again. I need to stop that behavior. So , maybe with your help and encouragement I can start that process. If he does not contact me then Ces't la Vie! (easy to say I know)..!
If he does not contact me then I know don't I? I know that it was all bull**** but still my heart says he is not like that. Can I stop contacting him? Can you stop contacting yours? Let him take the lead?
I spent the whole weekend mulling things over in my mind but I kept coming back to his words the last time we spoke " I'll call you before I leave, we will talk , I PROMISE, I PROMISE"
Part of me thinks that if we were ever to make plans to see each other again that I'm not even sure I want to for fear that my feelings grow deeper and I hurt more because he continues not to respond to me but only on his terms, his control.
One day at a time right Jen? I can not text him today, I can not. I have to look at the next 24 hours and keep myself from doing that. I am soooo not a game player, like you I am one to lay everything on the table, tell it like it is, lay out my feelings and maybe that scares him. Maybe that scares yours too!
My system is giving me some grief here so will have to sign off for now get back to you later.
Me again Jen,
Still not contact! I re-read my post earlier and wanted to say that I was not calling you a game player because it kind of sounded like that, what I was saying was I am not a game player , like you (also not a game player) , lay it on the line I say!!
I also noticed that I lost my train of thought while writing and my third last paragragh I talked about him promising to call "I promise, I promise" were his words and I meant to continue with that thought by saying "How am I supposed to separate his broken promises and inability to call with lies?" Was he just out and out lying or did he really think at that moment that he would be able to call and why couldn't he text just to say I'm sorry I can't call. He had 3 1/2 days before he left. This is when I say to myself, run away ..... run as fast as you can and don't pick up his calls or answer his texts. But you know, it's not like I'm sleeping with him. If I was sleeping with him I could say oh he's just using me for sex but thats not even what's happening. He is so moralistic when it comes to his unhappy marriage.
You know I have asked him straight out "If you do not want to see me and have no feelings for me then just let me go...I would rather that than you continue to tell me you love me and not mean it....I'm a big girl"
God I'm confused.
I googled a question regarding Virgos: "How long does it take a Virgo to get over a relationship?". That's when I found this forum and was amazed at the posts about Virgo men. By the way, I'm Cancer and he's Virgo.
I'm at a different place than the two of you, Jen and dttn. I met and hung out with a Virgo man for approximately two months. He told me he was seeing someone and I told him I had a "sexual" buddy but that I wasn't in a relationship.
Things were going along fine for about two weeks and then he begins to tell me how much he wants me for himself, loves me and that he would leave her for me. I instructed him not to leave because I would never trust him not to do the same to me in the near future. He began to promise me the world, even offered to purchase me a house (poor economy houses are available for under $40K) and that he would take care of me. I explained to him I wasted looking for a Sugar Daddy but instead a mate. He insisted he would spoil me rotten, etc.
All of this was a lie.......I don't believe he had the cash and I believe that he was in a committed relationship when we met. I continued to deal with him even after I had my suspicions about his inability to be honesty because I secretly hoped that he would realize that I was not as materialistic as he may have initially thought and come clean so we could start over fresh. That never happened so I became fed up with unavailablity, inability to follow through with appointments and just always in a rush to do whatever.
As you both stated, he would adamantly protest the possibility of us separating and this would make me feel so desired. But I realized that it wasn't that he really wanted me, it was that he was so insecure that the idea of not having two women (at least) meant he would have to weather the storm with just one woman. In essense, I was his cruch.
So, I made a decision to end the relationship completely. It was extremely difficult because I had allowed all the possibilities of this relationship to dance through my mind but I wasn't happy anymore. I asked him to give me space to allow the feelings to dissipate and me let go. That's been three weeks and he just called me again yesterday but I didn't answer. Sometimes you have to make decisions that are difficult because they will give you piece of mind. I hate chaos and uncertainty so I refused to immerse myself in it any longer. He wants to be friends but I can't be true friends with someone who has deceived me. I can forgive but that doesn't mean I have to keep you in my life. Its best for both of us to go our separate ways without any hateful or resentful feelings.
It may seem harsh but if these men loved you they would make moves to be with you now instead of playing the waiting game. If you're willing to wait until their situations change, at least do it from a distance. Put space in between you and if its meant to be, God will bring you back together. Otherwise, you're just taking yourself through unneccessary pain, games, heartache and confusion. Let go and let God!
Please don't think I'm making light of either of your situations. I've just had a revealation, "If a situation, in my intimate life, does not bring me happiness 90% of the time, it has to go. Period!"
Thanks for sharing ladies.
Hi Trice, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I so want to be where you are right now. i want it to be 3 weeks later and I want him to be out of my life. Maybe that will happen, as I still have not heard from him and now I'm not sure what to do if he calls.
You know, you think at the age of 50 you are grown up but here we are still dealing with crap. I admire your courage and strength in ending the relationship. Do you think he was married?
I know my Virgo is married and frankly doesn not want do divorce his wife so I'm not sure what he wants from me all I ever get out of him is not to walk away, not to leave (but I think , LEAVE WHAT? not much there as far a I can tell).
I'm not sure if you read all the posts , Jen is a cancer , I am a cappy.
How do you get past the part where you stop contact and you aren't waiting for him to call anymore? My phone is always there and he can reach me at work so I will start to think to myself doen't he care? Was it all a lie? and then he will call. Where do you get the strength not to pick up the phone? Where you in love with him? are you still? My heart goes out to you if you are/were as I can imagine what you are feeling.
Mine said to me "Once a friend , always a friend" and has said this on more than one occasion.
Does this mean a month could go by and then he may call out of the blue?
Ahhhhh, VIRGOS!!!!!!!!! love them/hate them
So its Wednesday the 5th of August and I just had to post this to see what anyone thinks. If I stop laughing I'll start crying.
My fuse is getting very short with my Virgo and patience which Jen has told me I need plenty of is wearing thinner by the minute (and believe me when i say i am a patient person).
He (I thought would have arrived home from vacation on Friday or Sunday as he said he would) it turns out only arrived home late lastnight.
So I , not knowing this (and not even sure if I should believe this) send him a text this morning , I told you I can't resist.
I said the following "So what are you thinking? If you ignore me I'll go away? I wish I knew".
10 minutes later I get a reply and this is what it says.
"Returned back from trip late last night one day late cuz of flights. Playing catch up big time with both jobs. Will call you tomorrow".
That's where it stands. I feel so angry inside.
dttn (feeling very hurt)
Dttn, "yes" “R” put me through much on Friday with all his shenanigans and poor communication, but I sent him an IM before he did turn up that night. Maybe that's why he did? I said, "Now I know you hate when I jump to conclusions, but I'm feeling pretty certain here that plans have changed and I'm just the last to know. I just wish you could have found some way to tell me. You have no idea how heartbreaking it is to feel this let down after all of your assurances. I REALLY believed you. While I would have preferred to see you, I suppose I'll take an explanation and go from there. I so missed you and I am so confused. Please enlighten me".
You see Dttn, the point in this is that HE is the one running things now. If he messes up then he HAS to take respsonsibility for it. If he keeps messing up and I eventually decide I've had enough, then he can't EVER blame me for it. No amount of that "please don't go" stuff will matter because he will KNOW he's the one who pushed me away. Is that a game, oh probably, but it seems that "R", maybe all Virgos (?), seem to appreciate a good game.
I might continue playing a few more of "R's" games to see where things go, but no more games with myself. All of those days of trying to talk myself into him or out of him and putting my mind in circles need to end. Here's a thought for you: as a result of counseling that I had during my divorce, I have a list of everything I want in a man - no matter how stupid a feature may sound (for example, "I want a blue-eyed man", "a sense of humor", etc.) it went on the list. Mine is not very long, but the list, according to my counselor, should be "without compromise". She said, "Going forward realize that every time you deviate from your list you are compromising what you said you really need in a man to find happiness – so you better ask yourself, “is he worth it?"
This is a marvelous exercise to try Dttn. When I reviewed my list recently and really thought about what I wanted it was clear that the title of "mistress" was never going to be on my list. In fact my unwitting initial involvement with "R" inspired me to add to the list "single, legally separated or divorced". It would have sounded so ridiculous to think to add that before "R" came into my life. I can honestly say that "R" fits every requirement on my list, right down to the one about "I want a man no more than 4 inches taller than me so I can look at him eye to eye". If he can free himself someday he is my version of perfect, but as it stands I know what I want and if someone else comes along that fits every requirement on my list well I'd be pretty stupid not to go for it. Make your list Dttn, be really honest with it, and then see how your guy stacks up. Next thing you know you just might find yourself saying, "wow, a man like the guy on my list would be amazing", and you may just want to go find him, lol!
It pains me to see you so bogged down with this man's indifference at this point. If I could wish anything for you right now it is to find that strength to NOT contact him. Give him a ton of space, enough for him to finally think, "hey, why haven't I heard from Dttn?" Will he come back to you? Who knows, you'll never know until you give it all enough space to find out. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself Dttn and command some respect from this man. I KNOW what you'd be giving up if he doesn't come back, it is something special, but you're giving up too much of yourself right now, and even that "special feeling" Virgo-guy gives you is too high a price for giving up so much of your personal peace of mind.
Now when I gave “R” control of the direction of the relationship, I actually then took it upon myself to go ahead and conduct myself however I want to. If I want to text him ten times a day I will, but I simply can’t expect anything more from him than he is willing/capable of giving. But I’m also not going negative and making demands about why I don’t hear from him like I used to do. My deal right now is that I’m tired of walking on eggshells and giving up who I am to make his world work. I’m tired of my own negative responses to his behavior. It’s time to either accept him the way he is or let go of the notion of a romantic relationship. He also needs to accept who I am. So I suppose I’m in a place of being oblivious to any actual results with him, which makes good sense because there is so little he can really offer me until such time as his marriage actually ends.
And I think I mentioned in a previous post - all I’m offering him any more is positive things; encouragement, support or just sharing little bits of what’s happening in my world. I’ve sent him several e-mails over the past two weeks just “yacking” really about the kind of stuff that interests me and what goes on in my world or in my mind. He finally had to admit that these “glimpses” into my thoughts were incredible. You see, with the huge voids in spending time together, there is no way he can really know me. Not the way someone would know me if we were hanging out regularly like “normal” people do. This is a very good thing I think, and my hope is that it will eventually lead to him either realizing that we aren’t meant for each other, or that he likes getting better acquainted this way and might open up and share more of himself.
As a result of not pressuring him to give me what I want all the time, I am actually getting more of what I want as far as emotional availability on his part. I’ve chatted on IM with him twice since I saw him Friday and that’s nothing short of remarkable. At this very minute I can see that he is on the IM but I am choosing not to contact him. I sent him an IM earlier today, updating him on a job interview I had this morning. He hasn’t replied, but I didn’t ask him to, just was giving him an update. The mere fact that he is on the IM right now though and technically “available” is a milestone. He always hid in stealth mode up until this week. This new phase is probably some sort of test again, lol, to see if I’m “for real”, see if I’m going to expect him to chat with me every time he logs on, but I am for real. I’m done with the frustrations with him. He’s the “Chief” and I’m the Indian. He wanted the job he’s got it. If he doesn’t manage it well and I wander off, well that’s his fault.
Honestly Dttn, I’m loving this state of things. So hard to explain, but it’s been very liberating. “Yes” I miss having physical contact with him, but that’s what was driving my general angst anyhow, and I’ve come to accept that is something I simply am not going to get at this time under ANY circumstances anyhow, short of him separating from his wife. But the previous reality was, the more I nagged, the less physical contact I actually got because I pushed him away emotionally with my nagging. KNOWING now how mental he is, the solution to keeping us together, if that’s what we both want, is keeping that mental place with him peaceful and positive. In return I get peaceful and positive too.
I don’t know if this would be a good approach for you as well, but I sure wish I could offer you something to help you get out of your current state and not feel such deep hurt. You care about him, everything that you are feeling in your mind, is the exact opposite of what you know you really feel in your heart. I KNOW that hurt and anger are not what you want to offer to him, that what you really want to offer is your love. It amazes me that he replied to your message within ten minutes. Can you maybe send him a little message telling him how much you’re looking forward to talking to him tomorrow? Sometimes saying positive things is a means to making yourself more positive as well. Now keep laughing and don’t cry and I want to know what happens tomorrow. Keep me posted.