The heart of a Virgo man
@Anonymous Scorp - About the little white lies, I just have to share a story with you because it took the white lies to a whole new level. We had made plans to get together and, as usual, Virgo waited until an hour or less before the appointed time to cancel on me via text. This was typical, he always texted because he didn't want to lose control of his lie by having a discussion. If I tried calling, because obviously if he's texting he has his phone in his hand, he would simply ignore it and keep texting. Anyway, he was using the kid excuse again only this time he had a photo attached. His story was, "still at daughters softball game, can't make it tonight" with a photo of empty bleachers at the ball park. Empty bleachers. Seriously...where's the people?
At that moment I realized that he probably had a little library of "excuse" photos. Another time he sent a photo of dinner preparations all laid out...he never said he was fixing dinner, he just labeled it something goofy like "king of the kitchen". It implied that he was busy that night making dinner for...somebody...but see he was really saying nothing at all. Didn't explain why I was being cancelled on, or that the photo was even taken that moment, but at the same time no lie was being told. Send a picture and let Jen think whatever she wants about it.
Another favorite was one night when I was over and it was late, past midnight, and he got a couple of texts. I didn't inquire who it was but he volunteered to tell me it was someone who chatted him up on Facebook recently. He showed me a photo of a rather plain woman and described her as an "unfortunate person" that he "felt sorry for her". Really? This "unfortunate woman" was texting him after midnight? I doubt it. The photo he showed me was saved on his phone. He didn't show me it via Facebook. I didn't think for a minute that was who texted him. With great flourish he texted her back reading out loud to me as he typed, "it's not appropriate to text me at this time of night". I'm guessing the message went more like, "in bed, text me tomorrow" and was sent to a women less "unfortunate" than the photo he showed me.
In any case, there were more "excuse" photos, none I could ever verify of course, so I guess my Virgo gets points for creative thinking. Never would I have imagined a person could put so much thought and effort into inventing new ways to cover his tracks.
So that story was for your amusement, but on a more serious note...your guy has a wife. Have you never discussed what might happen if she got wind of your "relationship"? You know the cheating man is never the one who gets blamed in these situations, it's the mistress. Doesn't matter that your guy is out actively trolling for women, that's the last thing wife is going to pay attention to if she's got one mistress identified. All the wrath will fall on you.
That's why I bailed on my Virgo. Jealousy is a powerful emotion and people get killed over this kind of stuff. At the point my Virgo was tempting me to come see him in the middle of the night, at his house, with his entire family there was the day I (finally) found my boundary. Between my disbelief that he would put me directly in harms way, the disregard he had for his small children potentially being witness to an emotional inferno if his wife woke up and caught us on the sofa, and some suspicion that this might be exactly what Virgo wanted to happen in order to really blow up his marriage...I was done. Told him if he ever got divorced to look me up and we can see where things are at.
I didn't contact him at all, and didn't intend to, but two weeks later I got a middle of the night phone call with him accusing me of telling his wife about us. Major drama. Even put his wife on the phone to give me a brief chewing out. To this day there's nothing in me that believes that was his wife on the phone. I even asked her twice, "who is this"? Twice she did not say, "I'm his wife". If she really did find out about us (doubtful), I suspect it's because he set it up for her to; left his computer open, or put his phone out for her to see a text. The other thing I figured out about a week later was that his wife's grandmother died two days after that dramatic midnight phone call. I had this random gut-message inside me that said, "look up grandma in the obituaries". I was incredibly shocked to find that she had just died and more shocked when I saw the date, 9/11. The midnight drama call was on 9/9.
You see wife was set to get a significant inheritance when grandma died. I think that the dramatic follow-up call was simply him trying to make sure I stayed away while he played the good husband for a while. I think he knew grandma was on the way out. He had always said that "when wife's grandma dies then wife will get the money and I'll take my business and we'll go our separate ways". In the end it wasn't true, he wanted in on the money. He would later tell me how angry he was that he got nothing. But grandma outsmarted him...all the money was left in his wife's name. There was no way, even as the husband, that he could legally get his hands on it. A wonderful punishment for his greed.
The other truly amazing thing that happened a couple of years ago was an encounter with his wife. We live some distance apart so the chances of our paths ever crossing are astronomical. It was interesting because there were so many times when I wished that I could have talked to her. Considered calling even, but with so much healing to go through with her divorce from
Virgo, I didn't want to complicate things.
Anyway, my son was in marching band at the time and there is always a late summer, pre-season football game. I didn't know what school they were playing, didn't matter, I just knew I had to be there. Imagine my shock when I realized they were playing the team Virgo's son was on. I texted Virgo and asked if he were there. "No, but be careful, ex-wife is there". Well that was all I needed to hear. This had weighed on me for so many years, feeling that I wanted her to know the truth, that I was prepared for whatever wrath I deserved just to have the truth out in the light of day. So at half-time I strategically placed myself in a location where if she went to the concessions or to the restroom she would walk right by me. I wanted her to be able to confront me...let me have it...finally talk. Three times that woman walked within three feet of me, I looked her straight in the eyes, and there wasn't a hint of recognition. Not a blink, not a stare, nothing. It absolutely was her, she had their other son with her. No mistaking her.
I have never been able to fathom that if wife had known about me, and as Virgo claimed, knew my name, that she wouldn't have been looking me up on Facebook or even showing up at my door when she supposedly found out about us. I thought about how often Virgo used the excuse (just after the divorce) that "I can't see you openly because if wife finds out she'll be furious and look for ways to keep me away from my kids" (ahhh, the ever-reliable kid excuse). I knew that day of the football game that there was a very good chance wife never knew about me at all...and what a realization that was. Like a ton of bricks. I could write a book about the complex lies Virgo built through time on the premise that his wife knew who I was. Always leaving me to think that we couldn't be together because ex-wife would surely be enraged and he couldn't risk that she might find a way to keep his kids from him. He used my guilt/conscience as a shield to hide behind.
Ex-wife probably never needed me as an excuse to try to keep him away from the kids. I have no doubt that Virgo had probably wracked up plenty of other reasons/women to justify her divorcing him through their years together. I probably don't want to know why she so vehemently wanted to limit his custody time. I've often considered that those are the things that Virgo would prefer I never knew about him and part of whatever is on the list of "if you knew about me, you would hate me". I think that it would have been, and still would be actually, healing in some way to just get it all out. Sometimes I think he wants to tell me...but I don't think he posses the kind of courage needed to admit to such monumental untruths and misdeeds.
I remember Virgo relating an incident to me between he and his ex-wife, just after their divorce. He was angry over his custody time and in a mocking tone, telling me his wife said, "your children know what you are!" I didn't ask him what that meant or why she used the word "what" instead of "who", but now I wish I had. Maybe the answer would have summed everything up.
Okay, AnonymousScorp, that was more than a couple of thoughts, but hopefully you see my point. Being mistress to Mr. Virgo is not a place you want to be. No one involved with that man deserves what he is getting up to and where it lead when it all comes tumbling down.
My god! No wonder you've been looking into psychopathy. That is one of the craziest stories I've ever read. Have you ever flat out called him on any of those lies? When I nailed my Virgo, he owned up to it and apologized.
As of now, I still see a pure heart in my Virgo, but the white lies and your story have definitely been noted. I've given him a little leeway so far because I think he just doesn't realize what an understanding person I am. I don't need the bells and whistles.. a simple "can't talk now" is sufficient, given the situation I've found myself in.
As for the wife, there are times I do feel guilty. I've seen pictures of her, and she appears very sweet and undeserving of what goes on behind her back. I try to tell myself I owe a stranger nothing, but my wall of narcissism can only hold for so long. I'm a very strong person, and if I have to face the music for the part in this I've played, then so be it. I did try to resist, but at the end of the day, I am human. I make mistakes with the best of them.
I'm also fresh from a divorce, and I understand how miserable feeling trapped in a marriage can be. Had my situation not played out the way it did, I would be stuck in an extremely unhappy marriage for perhaps the remainder of my life. I guess that has also weighed into my forgiveness.
Oh sure I called him out plenty of times on his "inconsistencies" and he would completely go off on me with accusations of being controlling, or making assumptions, or whatever general raging he could think of in order to avoid ever answering the question and put the blame on me. We'd stop communicating for a while and eventually he'd come back around as if nothing had happened.
Not getting together with this guy might be the best thing to ever happen to you AnonymousScorp. Getting together and taking things to the next level would have made things more difficult. You should still be careful because I'm not at all convinced that he won't come back. You two were at this for months. Whatever had him thinking it was okay to indulge in his "relationship" with you, whatever had him motivated, however he rationalized it to make it seem okay, is likely to come back into play. Unless something in his personal situation has significantly changed, then whatever inspired him to seek attention outside of his marriage in the first place, is going to come up again. I bet he thinks about it a lot.
You know your story is so much like mine. Except that I didn't know my little liar was married until about three months into things. But like you, I was just a year or so past my divorce and full of empathy for a man trapped in an unhappy marriage. That's why I was willing to give him a chance after I discovered he was married. Poor Virgo, I could feel his suffering. Like you I felt lucky that I was able to afford to divorce; so many people aren't, and I felt that my Virgo was in that boat. Oh yes, I was sure that if he only had the money that he would have done the right thing, like I did, and get properly divorced so no one was hurt by lies and betrayal. He told me so, lol.
Researching anti-social behavior disorders was how I eventually found an explanation for my Virgo's behaviors and mind games. I think I started by googling something like, "manipulative behavior" and one thing led to another. My Virgo ticks off at least 90% of the boxes for "characteristics of a psychopath". We get so used to thinking of these disorders associated with criminals and serial killers that it's hard to imagine that some of the disordered are just "regular" people in our lives. Psychopathy is a condition just as bipolar, or autism, or whatever, are conditions. Based on what I've read, it's a condition that can lead to great success too. Imagine how different your career might go if you were ambitious and had zero conscience about who you stepped on along the way. People might hate you, but you wouldn't care or feel any remorse, your objective is simply to come out on top.
Indeed, when my Virgo wants something he is as charming, considerate and kind a man as you'd ever want to meet. He always knows just the right thing to say. He knows how to evoke pity and sympathy and have you believing he's a sad victim of life...just never getting a break. He's also interesting and intelligent and has a million-dollar smile. I really loved that fake man. But those mind games and the illusions he creates come from a dark place. When a man can't feel the pain of his own madness, everyone he gets close to will eventually be forced to feel it for him.
I kind of expect the same reaction to the inconsistency call outs, that's why I'm the type to just mentally note them. I let it rack up, and bide my time. If the perfect opportunity presents itself to "strike" then I take it. I bet many a man (including him) has thought they've gotten one over on me in my life, lol.
I think you're right that it's for the better it never became physical. Everything would have been more complicated, including my feelings of guilt. I won't lie, I hope he does think about it often. Even through all of this, he drives me crazy. I think about him all day long, and that's what drove me to the internet seeking answers. No man has ever had this effect on me before. I still have not decided how I'll handle it if he does come back, though I lean towards doubting he will. I did not mix words about my opinion of his behavior.
Forgive me if you answered this somewhere in all of these pages, but what was the catalyst when the divorce actually happened?
Side note, I have another Virgo story. It's not my Virgo, but it does weigh on my mind and might offer other women yet another example of what some of these men are capable of. My best friend married a Virgo man roughly two years ago. She is a Capricorn. He was her dream man. He was so sensitive, and thoughtful, and caring, and romantic. Then she got sick about a year into their marriage, and he changed. He stopped being as thoughtful, and started nitpicking her. Then one day while she was at work, she was overcome by a hunch. She just had this feeling he was up to something. She got into his phone logs, and an application he had on his phone that tracked his location. She comes to find out her husband, her perfect partner, had been on dating sites for months. Not only that, he had been taking time while she was at doctor's appointments to go have sexual relations with random women. And the women he was cheating on her with blew us away. My best friend is a very fit, and extremely attractive woman, and he was clearly an equal opportunity serial offender. She went through his phone and found that he has been carrying on with affairs of some kind with well over 15 different women. Sending them nudes.. receiving nudes from them.. meeting some.. flirting heavily with all. Sorry if this is rambling, its a lot to remember and fit neatly into one little paragraph. She busted him and told his entire family, and all of his friends. He managed to twist it around with all of them, and make her look like the bad guy for snooping through all of his stuff and dragging them into it. Four months later, and they are still together. However, every time he claims he will be better and walk the straight and narrow path, she busts him doing something else behind her back. He always manages to twist it. Always. She's in a situation where she wants to just wash her hands of him, but her daughter is extremely attached. She's decided to remain in her f'ed up marriage for now and try to make it work. All I can do is shake my head and wonder.
Well I was with a Scorp for 16 years and I can only imagine what it's like when you finally decide to strike, Anonymous Scorp. I bet you have shocked a few with that sting and I can perfectly imagine your cool, collected demeanor when that moment comes. Ouch!!
You certainly took me on a trip down memory lane when you asked how their marriage ended. It's been so long ago I had to think about the series of events. The short version is, as I mentioned earlier, I ended things with Virgo, telling him to look me up if he ever got divorced. A couple weeks later he called me at like 6 in the morning. He was a man on the run. Things had escalated with his wife and he had thrown something at her..."he hurt her arm", he said, and she had called 911 to report him. The incident leading up to the altercation was that wife had taken his car keys, shoved them in her pocket or something, and wouldn't give them to him (in retrospect it's easy to assume that wife knew he was headed out for some kind of mischief and she was putting a stop to it - mind you that mischief wasn't me, because I had removed myself from this madness...for a while anyway). He got mad as hell and things got out of hand.
So there he was dumping all of his latest drama on me. The fugitive. I offered that he could come to my house and figure things out. He didn't want to do that, but he called me multiple times with updates over the next few days. To this day I have no idea why he felt compelled to call me. Virgo decided to hole up at a friends house and stayed in his camper until he got a lawyer and turned himself in. I think he thought wife might drop the charges, but she didn't and there was a restraining order and all kinds of chaos. I told Virgo I was "there" for him and just stayed out of it. Again, mind you, my intention had been to be done with him, not fall into a hole with him. And I didn't hear a peep from him for another couple weeks...not until that midnight drama call I told you about.
It was about a month later that he finally texted me and explained that he had been wrong, that one of wife's friends had told her about me. As I've said before, the whole story about wife knowing about me is full of holes - at another point he said he was confronted by his brother-in-law who asked if Virgo was "cheating on my sister". Virgo told me at that time that he admitted to his infidelity to his brother-in-law. I was perturbed by this, asking, "did you tell him with whom you were cheating??" because I didn't want wife coming after me. He said "no, he wouldn't do that". So which is it? A friend told his wife, or Virgo fessed up to his brother-in-law? Or was there some other story altogether? Some other woman altogether, lol.
I believe Virgo thought wife would drop the charges, but she didn't. He went to court and was sentenced to 3 months in the county jail. I didn't talk to him at all after that drama call. I responded to that "apology" text he sent but never heard any more from him. The days turned to weeks and turned to months. No word. I moved on with life. Then a year to the day after that midnight call he called me again. Oh, it was a brand new day to hear him tell it. Everything was going to be fine now. He was getting divorced.
The day he got out of jail his wife served him with divorce papers. He thought they were trying to make amends, she led him to believe that, and then she blindsided him. The whole time he'd been in jail she had been seeing a lawyer. Remember I told you that he made that drama call to me two days before grandma died. Even if he'd been a bad boy and had to sit in jail for a while, there was money to be had when he got out. I'm sure he had every intention of making amends with wife...at least until he got what he wanted $$. I'd say there was no one catalyst that led to the divorce, I'd say that this was a woman who had endured years of b.s. and finally had a means to escape.
I'd say that your Cappie friend is in an equally bad situation. A year into the marriage, they encounter a big life challenge, and the guy turns into an overnight serial cheater? Oh I'm sorry, but I doubt he magically turned to the dark side overnight. I suspect this was already a big part of him. It's not like he met one woman who captured his attention; a single infidelity; it's a full-blown side occupation for him. Accumulating that many women and arranging trysts takes time and strategy. He's immersed in his sxual escapades. She really should be formulating her exit strategy. At a very minimum he's likely a sx addict based on the numbers of women involved and all the visuals being shared. Again, I would tell your friend to visit the website Love Fraud dot com. Get on the forum and put that story out there (all the people in the discussion community are anonymous of course) and get some wisdom from other woman who share that very same tale. I swear that site still just blows my mind. I have weak moments when I think, "oh maybe Virgo really isn't disordered and he will snap out of his insanity..." and I read some of the discussion threads and reflect on the depth and complexity of my Virgo's deceptions over the course of years and I realize he's a very disordered person. Denial is so convenient, but in my gut I know the truth.
Is that daughter that your Cappie friend is so concerned about his child? If not I would get her out of that situation right now. I know it's easier said than done sometimes, but Cappie's got a man in the house with no boundaries. I'd be worried about that girl.
As far as your ongoing obsessive thoughts about Virgo, there's reasons for that as well, That little roller-coaster ride he put you on for all these months results in some actual physical reactions that become addictive. The emotional swings trigger chemical responses in the body. This site won't allow links to other websites so it makes it tough to hook you up with information. Consider him like a genuine addiction and that you may have to take similar steps to remove him from your mind.
I've often contemplated that there is a fine line between feelings of deep love and addiction...the difference is that love should leave you feeling healthy and sane, obsession and addiction leave you feeling ill, depressed and mentally disorganized. Which all makes me really wonder what I'm even doing here on this thread talking about it all, lol. Maybe I'm supposed to be here for a moment. Hopefully some of this has been helpful to you, and Totitoti and maybe even your Cappie friend. Ripples through the emotional waters....
Your insights are very helpful Jen and I can't thank you enough for starting this thread. In the same time,I wish you didn't have such a negative experience with a Virgo man,but if it is any consolation- you have helped so many women find comfort and sound advice. I think the best policy a woman can have with men who deceit,betray,cheat,abuse,use,fool around is simply to ignore them. Yes,they can be so charming and addictive,but in the end what we all need in our lives is peace. I was married for eight years to a Taurus,a sociopathic narcissist. 8 years! Hoping he would change if I do this,if I do that... One day I simply saw my reflection in the mirror and I said -enough. I left without a blink in the eye. Yes,it was painful,I suffered,but I have raised myself to the happiest that I've ever been. Ladies,you are all gorgeous women. If one man is playing with you,be a coach and simply release him to the universe. The Virgo I got involved with still hasn't contacted me. Life is still beautiful without all that sugarcoated empty talk...
Thanks for your kind words Totitoti. "Amen" to all of your comments. Many of the women on this thread were a huge inspiration to me. It was a woman from this forum who sent me a book that really helped me reevaluate my life experiences and relationships. Melody Beattie's book "Codependent No More" is outstanding. I think it could have helped a lot of women who were on this thread over the years and I wish I'd known about it sooner. It helps shed light on why people try so hard to work on toxic relationships, how to stop getting into them in the first place, and how to pick up the pieces when you've finally had enough.
Bumping to try to override the spambots that Admin allows to run rampant on this website.
Yes Jenever, this thread is amazing. It apparently took on a bit of a life of it's own, but I am overwhelmed by all the stories. You inadvertently helped so many lost, confused, broken women.
In all of this, one thing that I didn't see as a theme was the Virgo that never actually meets with you. It's pretty confusing, and I wish I had answers why mine never did. At times I wondered if the mental/emotional affair was simply enough for him. I have deleted all sign of him from my life though. Unless he returns, I'm emotionally ready to move on.
@AnonymousScorp - Who knows why he did it, why he contacted you out of the blue in the first place, why he's probably contacted others. Bored maybe. Low self-esteem maybe. Feeling unloved or neglected in his marriage. Feeling controlled. Hates his wife maybe. Got a thrill from it that helped him to survive one more dreary day of marriage and responsibility. But even if those are reasons, they're no excuse to drag an innocent into his dysfunctional situation.
If he does return, and you decide to talk to him, I hope that you will call him out on all of this. If he's full of excuses, ask him what he's going to do to fix it. It's not your problem if he hates his life and it's not his option to make any of it your problem. If he can't handle his stuff, he needs to keep it from harming you in any way; mentally, emotionally, or putting you at risk physically if wife gets wind of things. He's been reckless and impulsive with his behavior. He invited you to the "party" and it all seems so safe...until things get real. Already you've been hurt. His wife may not know it yet, but she's being hurt by his shenanigans. A person can't have multiple relationships and place any real value on any one of them. Inevitably the hurt will trickle down to the kids. None of this waterfall of hurt is your fault. Whatever is going on with him is already there, the damage was started by him, but you don't want to enable him. If he comes back try to force him to face what HE is going to do to fix his situation.
Virgos want it all and they don't know how. Is it the case with all virgo men out there that they always come back with some bomb texts in the middle of the night when you already gave up on them?!
Lol Totitoti mine was brutal for that
As soon as I complete put him out of my system,he decides to pop up again! I really wish to know what diagnosis is behind such behaviour!
How thoughtful of him Totitoti to reconnect with you in the middle of the night. Refresh my mind here, this is the guy who hates drama and wants something "fulfilling and meaningful". Unless he works some kind of crazy schedule that has him up in the wee hours, then I'd say it's pretty meaningless for him to connect with you when he surely knows that most people might be sound asleep and unavailable. No drama here...nope...'cause your guy hates drama, right? He's not being bizarre at all. Nope. There's some really logical reason why he chooses to come wandering back in the middle of the night instead of perhaps calling and actually talking to you at a reasonable hour.
So don't tease us Totitoti, what did he have to say that was so urgent he had to send you a text in the wee hours instead of contacting you during the day? Hey, why don't you use that line my Virgo came up with when his "unfortunate woman friend" texted in the middle of the night. Tell your guy, "it's not appropriate to text me in the middle of the night", use Virgo logic against another Virgo. Haha! I'm sorry but the idea of that is making me laugh out loud. Mr. Nodrama...hilarious that he can't see how ridiculous it is to contact you in this way.
He is an architect and a workaholic,but I'm sure he has 30 seconds of free time in the day light to contact me if he wanted to. He sent me a text recalling some inner joke between him and me. I haven't replied. I'm 35 and I really don't have patience for a 40 year old who doesn't know what he wants. Mr Drama Queen.
Right, because a 40 year old who doesn't know what he wants will soon enough be a 50 year old who still doesn't know what he wants. And there's nothing wrong with a man (or anybody for that matter) not knowing what he wants, as long as he doesn't drag others down, or string them along, with his indecision.
That reminds me of a rhyme I heard once, "indecision is not your friend, you may lose all in the end".
I'm glad you didn't reply right away. Give him some more time to think about you and see if he can come up with a more direct message than that pointless midnight text. Does he want you to think that he's losing sleep over you? Lying in bed reflecting over a good times with you? See, that's the problem. Who knows what was really on his mind because he's not communicating anything at all. Nothing. He just shared a random fleeting thought. You can read all kinds of things into it, and still get it all wrong, lol. Anyway, I know it may not have been easy to resist responding, but good for you.
You speak my mind Jen. Men are so complicated. I haven't answered to him. I wanted to, but then I just removed myself from my phone and started baking cookies. Much better option.
4 days later, have you still held strong? I know how hard it must be to resist, especially if he's still been trying.
AnonymousScorp, I haven't replied to him yet. I'm concentrating on the other things in my life. Even if I really do believe him and I could be a great couple, all his bs convinced me not to keep my head in the clouds. I'm a Scorpio with Mars and ASC in Virgo and I can be very stubborn when it comes to my well being. If something isn't good for me I let it go, no matter how much I want it. I bake the cookies, but I don't eat them...
Still nothing from mine. Two months tomorrow.. I think its safe to say my Virgo saga is over.