The heart of a Virgo man
Can't see the recent post...
Oh, here it is ! So glad to hear from you, ABB ! I often think about all the wonderful ladies from this site too and I'm grateful for having known them. Lots of love and hugs to you !
I think of everyone often also....it was a wonderful group to connect with and I am also grateful to have had all of you during a very rough time!
I hope everyone is well and happy!
Being trapped with a Virgo man is where dreams go to die. My only advice is never marry, have children or get trapped in any other manner with these men! I read the first few pages of this forum, the woman who was banking on a guy with a "2 year plan" to leave his wife, we saw how that turned out. They all have a two year plan to screw everyone over around them. Don't ever think they don't have horrible plans for you too because they do. All them are narcissists and phonies. I was blindsided into giving up everything to move in with one, only to witness someone whose personality turned into an entirely different person. It was scary. I read 2 books that are strongly suggested if you're ever so unfortunate to be stuck with a Virgo man or if you are considering any type of dependency on one.
"The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists"
"The Object of My Affection Is in My Reflection: Coping with Narcissists"
It won't save you but it will stop you from blaming yourself.
Also, to all the woman wondering if he will call, why he won't reply to texts. It's because he doesn't want to. You have got to get away from him, because it does not get better and he will never warm up to you. The lack of communication gets very much worse and you'll be a victim of emotional blackmail if not verbal and physical abuse. They always want what they don't have, so while you think you're pouring your soul into this relationship thinking he will appreciate it, it never happens. You will only be told how much you should appreciate him. He will never listen to you or support you, because you'll become a source of competition. They're b*cthes. You'll experience loneliness on a level you never have before, no matter how bad your life is now as a single person, you will long for the days when you thought life was hard and a struggle, you'll look back and realize how you had it all only to sacrifice it to become a prisoner. You'll sit at home alone when he leaves you, telling you his whereabouts are none of your business, you will become a psychiatric patient, milling over your past in your freetime because there's nothing to look forward to anymore. And they are so fake! They're treat you like garbage when you're alone and then act like a saint when they think people are watching. They get off on rejecting you and ignoring you. They will call you demeaning names, comment on your flaws, attack you when you're sick, block your phone number when you live with them, leave you stranded to prove a point and side with people who attack you. They have stupid arguments with you with their trick language and defense mechanisms. They're complete psychopaths! I was in 3 relationships with Virgo men and it all ended up the same way.
That about sums it up about virgo men.....I know I will never date another one! My experience was a lot like yours. My daughter married one last year and needless to say, it didn't go well and a lot of damage was done.
Good luck to you....hope you can find some peace.
Libralui, I dated 2 and had relationships with 3, all the exact same. This least one I almost wouldn't talk to based on the grief the others put me through but didn't trust my gut. Come to find out he's the biggest compulsive liar I ever met and usually I know a liar. It just means you cannot even trust the nice ones because they'll turn out to be pathological liars living a life of duality like a professional conman. And for what really? They lose every time. Short term gains, long term loses. No wonder they're so bitter but they're too sick to take responsibility so it's the poor victim's fault.
I haven't been on the thread in so long I actually forgot my log-in. But I do look at the site every now and then to see if anyone is posting.
So hello Indigolynn. That's quite a horrid picture you've painted and sadly I can't disagree with most of what you're saying. I try not to frame it in hate though. Not saying you are, but it would be easy to do since I know the hurt these actions cause. Based on my experience with Virgo this past year (the one who is subject of this thread), since he came back into my life (after being absent for a full year), I have seen much of what you describe. I don't think my Virgo intends to do damage with his behavior, but he just doesn't "get it". He seems completely unable to really comprehend what his own controlling, manipulative and compulsive behavior brings to his life and how he himself is responsible for his ongoing victim status. And I do now see how he operates through manipulation (and whatever forms that takes; lies, half-truths, bullying, conscious avoidance, anger, ignoring his own flaws while emphasizing the flaws of others, even when he is humble, it is manipulating for pity, and on and on...just google manipulation and read the list of tactics...it's pretty text-book stuff).
There does come a point when you have to accept that there is real emotional sickness here and thank you for saying "it will stop you from blaming yourself", because it is important to remember that the actions you're getting from these men who operate this way are not because of anything you've done. They would like you to believe that's true, because at the end of the day the whole point is that they can't handle accountability for their own actions. If there's true mental/emotional disorders at play, they can't even control themselves. Any more than a person with dyslexia can suddenly see in reverse. But what they know just as well is that you are accepting them and that's incentive enough to keep going. So it's not entirely true that you've done nothing in all of this, you have cared, and sadly there seems to be no one who can care about this kind of personality without being punished for it in return.
So what about us in all of this Indigolynn? There is a weakness in women who tolerate this behavior too. You seem to have overcome it. I am working on it in myself as well. Virgo did drive me to seek group counseling many months ago with yet another of his dramatic flips in behavior that had me saying, "enough Jen, you've been down this path before now figure out how YOU are going to break the pattern". It's turned out to be a great move for me. The mere action of taking that step is an act of self-love and a sign that I was ready to take a different approach to my life/relationships. Took a lot of years to get to the place of allowing "dreams to die" over any one person, but as long as the dreams are still there, they can be nurtured back to life.
It has been a very big challenge trying to continue getting along with Virgo and deal with my own issues over him. I'm not entirely sure why I have done this other than the history...so much time invested and my heart. I really do love this man and I needed to know with certainty whether he was ever sincere about us. Deep down I think I will always believe there's a good man buried in him, but it's so deep and he allows all of his dysfunctional fears to overrule his sincerity about anything in life, I doubt I will ever know that man as a real person. The world is such a stage to him, he is so accustomed to "acting out" reality, I don't know if he really knows what's real to him or whether he can ever live from his heart instead of constantly strategizing and mapping out life in his head.
So as far as my Virgo's "master plan", Virgo's wife did leave him. Although from the stories of the long, dragged out divorce process I could sense that she struggled between the light and dark sides of this man as well. I expect that she and I have a few traits in common for our ability to love him in spite of being fully aware of his short-comings. I can see now that it's possible that he used me to execute the end of his marriage. I think it has been a twisted blend of consciously and unconsciously. The relationship he had with me gave his wife the strength she needed to ax the marriage. Maybe that will turn out to be a blessing to her really. He didn't have the guts to walk away himself - didn't want to be the bad guy, but I can't see where he did anything different to repair the marriage during that year after we ended things and were out of touch. Things he's said suggest that he was just carrying on as usual and then couldn't understand when Wife said, "you're not trying". Lately even Virgo's family has pulled away from him as well. His own children no longer reach out to him. It is a very dark time for him, but it is one of his own making.
And I am just another one on the fence about him really. He says he values me as a friend and doesn't want to lose me in his life, but I have walked a very long and often painful road with him already. How much more do I want to put into this, even as a friend? I ask myself if he has ever been the kind of friend I value in my life and I come up short with that one. I used to be able to accept that his circumstances didn't allow for any kind of "normal" relationship. But with his circumstances changed, now what do we have? Same patterns that have been there all along. So the marriage was an excuse. The opportunity is now here for something different and the truth is he remains as elusive as ever.
With his world crumbling around him, I'm not sure Virgo really cares one way or the other whether I stay or go at this point. I suspect that he'd be just fine if I said, "forget this, I'm done with you" because it so perfectly fits his victim mentality. "Well I tried, but Jen just left me like everyone else I thought loved me". Even if he admits to what he brought to a situation, he doesn't seem to want to really change anything within himself to improve things. Acts like he's powerless and everything is an act of Fate.
And that same Fate is likely to affect any new relationship he tries to start. And all you have to do is read through the thread to know how those new relationships work for men who operate like this. The smiling, smooth-talker who is everything you want from a man...and then he bails out...and then he comes back...and you see it's all manipulation - whether it's malicious or whether it's out of emotional fear - it's manipulation to keep control through generating chaos and uncertainty. Keep everyone on edge and in a fog to maintain control of life for himself. I think that love and soft feelings are perceived as weakness to my Virgo, plain and simple. Not necessarily weakness in the people around him, but in himself. Feelings are how you get hurt. When you open up your emotions you open the door to people hurting you. He's going to make darn sure he's not getting hurt and there's only one way to do that, control - at any cost to those around him apparently. Self-preservation rules and hurt or be hurt is the law of the emotional jungle. It would be easy to see it as narcissism, and maybe it all comes out the same based on definitions, but I tend to think my Virgo's self-centeredness is fear-based and flourishes in his lack of self-esteem from whatever damage his past has caused him.
There was a post going around on FB recently that went something like, "Don't take advantage of the people who care about you to the point that eventually they don't give a damn about you". I think you really nailed it Indigolynn with your comment, "They lose every time. Short term gains, long term loses. No wonder they're so bitter but they're too sick to take responsibility so it's the poor victim's fault." (I'm taking that to mean that the man is the victim.) I guess my only thought is that until they make an effort to get well, you can be sure this is all they will ever know. If there is some vindication in that thought, well there you go, because it is surely true. If I continue to let Virgo's negative spin on life draw me in, I have no one to blame but myself as well. I don't regret the emotions I've invested in him, it's brought me to myself in many ways, but I can see how much of what has gone on with him is because he wants me to be afraid to lose him. Now that is the very thing that is causing him to lose me. Has he ever really been afraid of losing me and the love I've shown him, or was it all about possession? Even now I do not know and maybe never will.
I have stayed off the thread because I felt it was time to think more about what was right with me than what was wrong with Virgo men. I still say it's not the sign, I've had similar experiences with a couple of Scorps, and I wouldn't condemn all Scorp men to being controlling and manipulating. And there is my work...same as for you probably Indigolynn, and that is to stop getting involved with men who bring this to relationships. I completely understand how subtle their tactics are, but I guess the solution is the very first time your gut tells you to go, just go and don't question yourself over it. Once the second-chances start it gets harder to pull the plug. As I say, even now I am torn about what to do with my Virgo. The right answer is really "nothing", lol. Let him man up and be the respectable, caring person he claims to think he is. He can believe whatever he wants about himself, but unless he can live it, it means very little. There are no obstacles to him being his real self anymore. It's been said by others throughout this thread that we should all let actions speak louder than words, but it took me some time to really understand how that operates in my life. But I am getting there...I don't want to think I can't trust people at their word, but I am much more aware whether the words line up with the actions with everyone I'm involved with.
Libraluli, "hi" to you, sorry to hear about your daughter's marriage and I hope that she has recovered from the damages. Hope you are doing good yourself as well!
I'm beyond the point of making excuses for him. My only message was to other women don't waste years of your life on these nut jobs. Its like chasing good money after bad, but worse. You can always replace money, you can't replace time. They're a complete waste of time. Their "complications" are only cute when they're down and out. When they have what they want and in a place to say screw you, that's when you realize you mean absolutely nothing to them, if only temporary until it sets in they lost you then they turn pathetic all over again. I really don't have time for people like this. And how would you like to be played for years of your life with someone who has a what is it now a 4 year plan to screw you over and you don't even know what's happening under your nose? That is not a good person but is typical and what you can expect because nothing they say is honest. Absolutely nothing. I have no problem lumping them in together because I have not had grief from anyone in my life like these guys. They're fine if you stay independent and can make a quick escape, marrying one or banking everything on one is a colossal waste of time because hands down you will lose everything and this is also where the abuse starts. If your goal in life is to pour your life into a kick in the face, to be threatened with homelessness, to have a b*tich man gossip about you and ruin your reputation, then this is the guy for you.
These guys also pray on women online because they're cowards.
Not sure what happened to my last comment not being posted.
I'm done making excuses for these type of men, no matter what their sign is. Either act like a decent human being or get the hell out of my life, stop wasting my time, stop disrespecting me. These people do not change no matter how much you "love them." The one thing that does change them is have other people around all of the time but it's only temporary until they get you alone and trapped.
And let me tell you, anyone who says they are abusive because of a bad childhood (all Virgo men seem to have had a bad childhood for some reason), is full of crap. I learned they lie about the small stuff, the definitely lie about the big stuff, how can you believe they are honest about something that has happened 30 years ago and you have no way of verifying it. When it is a go-to excuse to treat you horribly. It seems everyone in this guy's family is well adjusted but him. It makes me wonder if all his childhood stories are fabrication too. I was abused as a child like many and we don't go around kicking people when they're down and say "oh, sorry I was abused as a child therefore you have to pay for it" Give me just a tiny break here. They're horrid people.
I have not been on here in so long, I did not know if the forum was still in existence. Anyway, I came to update… I’m not sure why but I thought of all of you and felt the need to post. Someone, somewhere will get something out of this message..not sure who or what, but I am compelled to post. First..I miss you girls ..it was your support that got me through some pretty dark days..specifically realizing how dishonest and selfish my ex virgo was. I do not regret anything though because I have learned sooooo much from him and you… I still question that strange attraction I had towards him, and he towards me..at least I did question it, until I realized it was only because he kept me in a constant state of uncertainty ..those feelings, those rush of hormones (yes it was physiological) kept me holding on FAR longer than I should have (I am soooooo embarrassed that I didn’t drop him looooong before). Anyway, what did I learn?
The virgo did care about me in his own way, but a broken man (or woman) cannot REALLY love, not in the way That love was meant to be expressed.
It doesn’t matter how much they do or don’t love you, if you have doubts or feel your needs are not being met… you are in the wrong relationship (I was too focused on what he felt I could not really understand this). Point, blank, period.
I haven’t been on because I am emotionally stronger than I have ever been and I know emphatically who I am and what I deserve.. I wish it didn’t take so many years to get here but I can say it was definitely worth the wait, the struggle and the pain. I am engaged now and extremely happy. My fiancé is supportive in ways that I know ex-virgo was not capable of and we just fit. My fiancee is an amazing man and I can honestly say I don’t know what I would do without him. I don’t know how my ex is doing and quite honestly I don’t care …I DO know I will NEVER ever allow any man to treat me the way my ex-virgo did. ..and no he didn’t treat me “bad,” there was always just something “off” about our “relationship.” Wishing all of you the best ,, and hoping you all tap into that inner strength we are all born with.
I am so thrilled to read about your engagement and how happy you are....congratulations!!
I really do believe that we are put into difficult relationships to learn important lessons in order to be with the "right" person. It takes some of us a lot longer than others, unfortunately....I wasted 15 years of my life but now can look back see why it took me so long. I feel I am now on the right path, I no longer want or attract men who don't treat me the way I deserve to be treated. I hope someday, I will have news as joyful as yours!
I am also very sad this wonderful group has disbanded...everyone here was a great source of support when we needed it most and I miss them!
Take care and be happy!!
Snowball, don't know if you'll see this, but I'm so glad that you came back to share your story. Congratulations! I couldn't be happier for you! Just awesome the way things have worked out for you. Wishing you nothing but happy days ahead.
Libralui - some are still around if you ever have something you want to discuss. I'm in touch with a several of our former "regulars" outside of the forum as well. I can "rally the troops" if you need them. Or should I say our team of "cheerleaders" as one of our more snarly posters once accused us of being.
I check the thread periodically, but to be honest I'm not that interested in continuing to explore the same old stories about these guys. I think it's all pretty much been said through time. Like you, I think we had a wonderful group going for a very long time, and, as I say, some are still around if you need us or just to say hello Maybe you could start a new thread and invite the "Virgo Survivors" over to that one just for friendly chats. A place to keep in touch. If you do, be sure to post the name of it here so we know where to go.
Hi Jenever! Thanks for your post...nice to hear from you! I agree, we certainly don't need to keep beating the Virgo subject anymore, I can't think of anything that hasn't been said! I know for myself, I would never date another Virgo, so the subject is closed for me....just wish my daughter hadn't of gotten involved with hers. I am afraid that if we started a thread called the "Virgo Survivors", it would just invite more Virgo angst, so I would have to think of a different name:)
I am glad, however, that others going through what we all did can read through the five hundred plus posts and feel not so alone and gain some understanding.
I am doing alright, no drama going on, not much luck in the man department either....just dating and waiting for the one that will click finally!
I hope all is well with you and the rest of the "cheerleaders"....lol!!
So wonderful to hear from all these lovely ladies again and so very happy that everyone seems to be doing well! HUGS
Just saying "hi"
hi all, how fantastic to see some old faces and some new ones , update, sadly my vir has been back and forth so many times ive lost count, but finally im seeing that light (took to flippen long) FINALLY.... why does that happen??? anyway what i do know is ive learnt more about my self in the last year and a half than ive learnt in my lifetime, even after my horrid ex husband, but i truly believe this experience was so much worse, crazy ae.....
anyway just wanted to drop a message to say hello and that i to think of this thread often... xx
Hi ladies, one more "cheerleader" is checking in :-). I haven't been visiting the site for quite a long time, as I thought this thread has stopped existing. It's been a wonderful support group and I miss you all ! So happy for Snowball ! Also I completely agree that all the relationships teach us something, if we let ourseleves learn the lesson.
If someone starts the new "survivors" thread, please let me know of it's name and count me in ! However, in a way, communicating through this thread makes just as much sense, even if it's not about Virgos anymore.