The heart of a Virgo man
and based on what you said above, that you would be shocked if I were to just walk away from my husband if he were cheating with another woman for 5 frickin months. yes, that is what I would do. compassion? are you frickin serious.. this is about s e x and cheating is simply not part of a marriage partnership. some women would forgive and work on it.
I hope you will be as understanding if your lover's wife were to decide to stay and fix the marriage, and not let him go..
Ms. Sunny - it was actually 5 months when I first posted this thread, it's a "freaking" a year and a half now. Lol. I like how you worded the last sentence. If his wife "were to decide to stay and fix the marriage and not let him go". At least it acknowleges that his wife has some responsibility to making it work as well. Also Interesting that you would imply that she is the one driving the relationship. I truly believe that if she appreciated what she has in this man, he would never have strayed. His emotions run deep and he does have a strong sense of the importance of family unity. I don't think it would even have taken much effort on her part. I think if she were sincere, she could win him back right now without a problem. They have time, history, and children to keep them together - but somehow it's just not happening. Oh he's there in body, but he is not there emotionally.
In the time I've known him he's tried to do nice things for her, and tried to engage her in their relationship. At least I can give him credit for being honest with me about that. As long as he is there he'd like to keep life pleasant for his family. But it still only gets negative results. If he gives her a gift, it's not what she wanted. If he takes her to dinner, it's not the right place. So every time he tries and it fails, it's just "chalk another one up" for the day he leaves her.
Seriously, when I first learned that he was married, I wanted to understand what got him to the place of betraying his marriage. I tried to see things from her side, threw out little scenarios of how she might be feeling taken for granted and alienated (he worked long hours, she was home with the kids) Sadly, there is such a pile-up of all kinds of issues between them that in his mind, she "left" him long ago. Frankly, I think he is still in the process of sorting out what went wrong, and even questioning his own role in the demise of the marriage. Virgo analysis you know. Who knows...maybe there is still something there to salvage, but in my opinion it will take nothing less than both of them and a 100% positive effort for him to find the marriage fulfilling. His other option is to just accept things the way they stand and live with his emptiness. I've considered at times that this may be his final decision. The path of least resistance.
Will I be understanding if they decide to work on things or he just decides to sit tight or perhaps in our conversations I might even help him see the light? Ms. Sunny, I have walked this path too long with him not to be understanding. Do you have any idea what sort of understanding it has taken to stay the course with him in this? Lol. I dare say I would be more understanding than he was back in February when I, very honestly, told him that an old boyfriend had come back into my life and I owed it to myself to see what was still there.
I seriously thought that Virgo would support my decision. Well he did, on the surface, because afterall, what justification did he have to stop me? He did tell me he would be hurt if I pursued it. What does "hurt" mean to a guy who cheats on his wife, lol. I did it anyway. The surprise was, that three months later, I am only just learning how deep that hurt actually went for him and how it has played on his mind. Very confusing really and so I told him as well, that he really needs to figure out what's going on in himself and how he really sees things going between us long term for both of our sakes. I don't feel good about hurting him either, but unless there is solid commitment and changes on his side, there is ultimately only one direction I can go. I repeat, I won't pass up an opportunity to find a fulfilling relationship if the right guy comes along, lol. Does Virgo want to be that guy? He certainly could be that guy. But that's something he has to figure out.
As far as regrets...I've never had a regret over any relationship I've been involved in. I've had relationships that went for years and failed, but that doesn't mean the experience was a failure. If whatever this is with Virgo "fails" as well, I wouldn't expect it to feel any differently. Hurt, disappointment and pain can come up in any relationship circumstances at any time. You must have been feeling some of that when your heart was lured away from your husband. You must have done some incredible soul-searching in all of that. But you found where your heart really lies and you followed it and it turned out that you did a good job of getting it right.
I give Virgo plenty of space to say, "you know what, I messed up". In fact, I'm the one who probably pushes him the most to think about, "are you really sure about all this", because the reality is, I don't want a future with him unless he can wipe the slate clean of the past. No regrets on his side either. No uncertainty.
THANKS for your posts Ms. Sunny, I always enjoy your comments in the forum and I appreciate the time you've taken to share them here. I like that we can agree to disagree on points as well. Life is just messy sometimes, it's good when we can share thoughts in all directions and try to find new ways of looking at things.
a frickin year and a half ?? LOL you really are digging your grave deeper and deeper..
I knew a Virgo man once he lied and cheated me out of money, i thought also there was some kind of connection but as it turns out it was all pre-meditated, vicious lies, these people are purely selfish in my opinion using their so called insecurities to mask their viciousness. I have had experience with various Virgo's men and women and in my experience the use you until they have gotten what they want then they drop you like a hot brick. I am never going to date another Virgo or befriend one, my experiences were just too bad with these people.
Jenever>>>>>I have been involved with a Virgo man for 5 months now. Met him online, we got along perfectly, in time I figured out he was married (long story) with four children.
Sunny>>>>> I was pretty sure I read that part correctly.. 5 months is what you wrote on how long you been with him. now you say it's been a year and half.
does it really matter how long? the point is, you are having an affair with a married man. put yourself in his wife shoes and think how it feels to be betrayed and lied to over and over
Ms Sunny - An affair may be the ultimate, tangilble expression of betrayal in a marriage, but there are many other ways to betray a marriage. My ex betrayed me with his relationship to alcohol. Some people betray their marriage by investing themselves in their work. Some people put their family before their partner. Some women invest all of their emotion in their children and push their spouse aside. Whenever a marriage gets to a place where one person feels that they are giving their all and getting nothing in return, or is being put second, that is just as much a betrayal. The emotional security and support that you thought were implied in a marriage becomes a sham. The trouble that leads to a physical betrayal starts with the emotional betrayals.
I tell you, Virgo did not get to this place alone. I am not the one who needs to put myself in her shoes at this point, she is the one who needs to realize that she is wearing the shoes. She's had that shovel digging her own marital grave for years before I ever came along. I think that she could still help make it work. He says it's too late, but I'm not sure I believe that because the stakes between them are so high. Four children you know. (Maybe that's just my naive, idealist little self at work again, lol.) Maybe the real answer is for her to put herself in her husband's shoes, eh?
Just asking... Do you know anything about their marriage apart from what HE has told you? I mean, I haven't read through all 48 pages, have you actually talked to HER, his wife? Do you know her side of the story?
Why am I asking?
Well, I was happily married (yes indeed) for many many many years to a Virgo male. But Virgos crave confirmation, they are real flirts and other womans attention (even though they will hardly ever act on it) make them feel goooood and when I couldn't supply my husband with the attention (won't tell you why, but it was for a good reason) he went and got it somewhere else.
But at home he was playing happy family, it was all looooove, all happiness, all family, all forever and ever, all flowers and gifts and kisses and hugs and cozy evenings together and good sex etc etc etc.
And then I found out about his little affair, and "she ment nothing". Of course. Just a way to "get confirmation" and "some excitment". Well well...
One thing that I have discovered, since my ex wasn't my first Virgo, is that Virgos have very very secret fantasies, dirty fantasies. They are so perfect on the "outside", no one would guess.
Honestly...my ex was such a brilliant liar that not even I, who had known and lived with him every day for sooo many years and am really good at "seeing straight through people", knew what was true and what was false when it all fell apart.
I actually talked to his mistress, and well...let's put it this way...he had told her some very interesting things about him and me. Very convincing too. And of course, not true at all.
That is how people who know that they are doing the wrong thing act. They say whatever necessary to make their actions seem more okay. Make it seem like there is a very good reason to play that kind of game.
Jenever7, you seem to be so smart! I cannot understand how you can have a go at his wife, who might be completely in the dark, just like I was. My ex, the cheater, even admitted that we had the best marriage and partnership that any man could ask for, including him. He just wanted confirmation and "the excitement". When it all came out in the open he even begged on his knees for me to keep him, tears and everything, which I didn’t. He didn’t go to her, he ended it the same day as it came out in the open (hoping that it would make me forgive him) and is still single.
Nah… I wrote it earlier in another thread. If a man is serious, nothing will keep him from you. No obstacles are too mighty, regardless of what they are. Nothing stands in the way of true love.
I wish you good luck. All the best. But I think I know where this is heading.
Annearies spoken like a woman who knows. Your ex sounds like my father, the ultimate player if ever there was one. This man's mission in life was to obtain the "confirmation" and "excitment" from every woman in a 100 mile radius before, during and after his childhood courtship, marriage and ultimate divorce when I was 5 from my mother. I can't count the number of women he brought me around once he was single again and seeking "confirmation" and "excitment" from other women on an obscene scale. And some label women as w hores.
My point is that even after all these years anda long painful wake of women duped by my father's charm into dead-end relationships that some even found an understanding shoulder to cry on in my mother (she was never blind to his behavior even from when they were kids) to this day the only women he constantly cries, regrets and still openly professes his undying love for is...yep...you guessed it...my mom. All those wasted tears by so many other women he lured into thinking he "connected" with and not one of them is around today when he is no longer big man on campus with an ego and narcissim that knew no bounds. Now there isn't a single minute of the day he doesn't wish he could take all back and have what he lost with me and my mom again. This even with his girlfriend of 20 plus years still by his side as well and a very good friend to me. The only other woman I know who has stood by him and all the dirt he did her during theirown relationship and yet even then, my mother is the one he continues to love above all others and the only woman he ever had as his wife.
My grandfather is the complete opposite having been " devoted" to my grandmother for over 60 years. However, their marriage was/is still beyond volatile and sadly a personal emotional war on each other for all the years that she cheated in their marriage and he drove her to such distraction from his controlling criticism that had her acting out a lot of times like a mad woman when she wasn't smothered in depression. Again, Virgo couldn't let it go no matter how trying or at times ungrateful my grandmother could be about a well provided for life she had become accustomed to that he willing provided and still does to this day. Oh...he's 87 and she's 85.
These are just my own personal experiences with Virgo males who were suppose to be my role models and how no matter what was said and done in the end if the wife didn't leave him he's not going anywhere. My mother left my father but my grandmother did not. But both are still revered to this day in each man's heart. Single Virgo men are a handful in and of themselves. Add marriage on to that and it's a stronger woman than me who can hang.
Jenever, could you post something here when you're home? I'll go in the chat room in you-know-where asap, if it's in the next hour and a half.
That way we can talk in real time.
Actually perhaps i should sleep sooner today... talk to ya another time okay?
Well, in defense of Virgo males everywhere, I would very much hope that neither these recent posts nor my current experience with a Virgo leads anyone to believe that ALL Virgo males are bad guys. I will say though, that the Virgos I know who are "honorable" men, still all seem to share an akwardness when it comes to finding and developing relationships. They either don't marry at all or they married late in life. All are very difficult personalities and very complicated to understand. But good men all the same, with high ideals.
So is my Virgo just one more brilliant liar? I guess if he is he has me fooled and shame on me in the end. You know I never started this thread to evaluate what I am doing with him, or what his wife thinks, or judge his moral character, or have mine judged, lol. I simply asked if a Virgo man is capable of being true to his heart (recognizing that they are such mental, practical creatures). Can I trust that if he says his heart is in this with me, is there is truth in that? As sad as a couple of these last posts are, in a wierd way they actually address my original question. Apparently a Virgo man can engage in all sorts of bad behavior and yet his heart remains in one place.
So the real question about my Virgo seems to be was his heart ever really in his wife or his marriage? His sense of responsibility certainly was, but what about the rest of it....
Only he can figure that one out.
HiddenDiamond - Hope you had a good night's rest! Looking forward to chatting with you, but it may be a challenge with the time difference and how our schedule of activities affects our days. I'm on U.S. Eastern Standard Time, so we'll have to figure out what window of time works best globally. The weekend is actually best for me, unless it's something urgent you want to discuss. If so, let me know and we'll make something work!
While I can't speak for anyone else, my views of the two most important Virgo men in my life since birth was by no means of placing judgment on your decisions Jenever here your Virgo experience is concerned. Haven't walked in your shoes so I am in no position to comment on whether or not what you are dealing with is worth it or not. That's all on you. However, I also had to comment on Annearies' post because it too had merit not just about Virgos but about the lengths some married me will go to in order to have their cake and eat it too. And, from my experince with the Virgos in my own life and not the general population, the wife did and does indeed hold the honored place in the hearts of the Virgos' I know. Doesn't have to apply to your situation. You believe otherwise and have made it clear that you are in it for the 4 year pay off being promised. I very much hope you get what your heart desires as I wish for us all. Be blessed in all you do.
I do not think that it is fair to assume that all Virgos are like my ex, or your “partner”. Not at all. I am 100% convinced that there are many faithful Virgo men out there, just like in any other sign. This really, looking carefully at it, has nothing to do with zodiac signs.
I was merely trying to explain that some men (and women) lie to get what they want. And they are convincing double players, prepared to say and/or do almost anything to keep that nice cake…and eat it.
I simply asked if a Virgo man is capable of being true to his heart (recognizing that they are such mental, practical creatures). Can I trust that if he says his heart is in this with me, is there is truth in that?
I think, just my opinion based on life and experience, that words mean way less than action. If he was in this with you, “commited”, he would have done the right thing. The right thing to his wife and family, to you and to himself.
It is easy to talk and make excuses.
As sad as a couple of these last posts are, in a wierd way they actually address my original question. Apparently a Virgo man can engage in all sorts of bad behavior and yet his heart remains in one place.
I can only tell you that my ex husband still to this day claims that he loved me before, during and that he still loves me. He acted like a complete **** towards me, us and our family though planning, cunning, cheating, taking valuable time away from us and our family and yet he claims that he loved me then and that he still loves me and that he never ever wanted to hurt me.
I actually, however strange it may sound, sorta believe him. He knows that he really f*****d up, big time. A very costly experience, the price was high for all of us involved. Especially for our children.
I can understand falling in love with a married man, or woman. It is difficult to control feelings in that way. But acting on it, no, that I can never understand.
All points well taken ladies. I guess to me it does get very situational in this case. The first issue being that he and his wife got married because a baby was on the way. She was 18, he was 20. Not even legal to buy a beer and they're making a person, lol. Did they have a clue what love was? Certainly they didn't have a clue what raising a family was going to take out of both of them. What it amounts to is that they cheated each other out of taking the time to see if their relationship was solid before moving forward. Virgo says his wife now blames him for taking away her youth. She has a very questionable on-line "friend" at this time as well, and she sees this guy through her work. Tells Virgo all about this too. The games they play with each other are cruel in my opinion and a waste of time and emotion. "Throw the cards on the table I tell him. Ask her what she wants in the marriage. Tell her what you want. Find some kind of truth you can both live with and then live it." What he says is that they both agree, that under different circumstances they would never have gotten married. Now they're stuck. Nobody can afford to leave.
Now as lame as that might sound to all the romantics out there, the reality is, the state I live in currently has an unemployment rate of 13.6. Economic growth is at a standstill and businesses continue to close leaving hundreds more out of work and out of options. I'd leave here myself for better opportunities if I weren't tied here through my kids and their dad. I'm stuck too and live with an uncertain job situation! But I can think of three other couples I know, living in unhappiness/tolerance because the reality of their financial position leaves them with no good options. Two are actually divorced already but had the heart not to leave their ex out in the cold. As understanding as I may be, I couldn't live with my ex. There are worse things than poverty, lol. Anyway, their best hope seems to be that one of them finds someone else and moves out. It's craziness!!
J, something tells me you're turning 25 today!
LOL, HD, aren't you sweet! I'm just about to post a thread seeing if anyone wants to give me a birthday reading! Thanks so much for remembering, really so very nice of you! Let's go with 35 though, 25 was kind of a messy year. I don't want to re-live that one, haha.
Jenever, and mimi if you're still reading this...
The Scorpio girl who disappeared a few months ago, and who I thought was so similar to me... well, I found out that her Sun was almost perfectly sextiled with my sun(2 months difference - 24 August to 23 October), and it was EXACTLY where my Ascendant lands. Funny!
By the way, I watched the movie ''She's out of my league'', and loved it... found it very inspirational.
It basically says ''You're as good as you believe you are.''..
Hey Jen ! x
How are you ? Happy Birthday (sorry its late x) . How are things with your Mr Virgo? hope all is well. Just a quick update from me. The last time we spoke I mentioned that Mr Virgo got back in touch with me via email and I said to you I wasn't sure what I would do next. Well I let 2 weeks go by and then I replied to his email to say I am ok, how are you? Well it's been a month since my reply and no news.
I know in the past when we have broken up, he has blocked my details so that he doesn't have any contact with me, well I don't know why but I sense that after sending his first email he had a sense of regret, almost as though he could take it back and then went on to change his settings on the email account so that he can't receive any reply.
The other reason I know this is because on my msn account, the message keeps coming back as `your message could not be deleived' and that only happens when u have been blocked. I certainly feel he has had a change of heart.
My other feeling is that perhaps he did wait initially for a reply to come back from me, but I took my time to reply to him (2 weeks), in which time he may have believed that I was never going to write back to him and so blocked off my settings. Maybe until today he doesn't even know that I did actually reply to him.
Anyway even if we did have contact, I had decided in my head that this time around I was only going to be friends and wil continue to meet other people, he will have to accept and respect that. The fact that he has now changed his mind again doesn't actually change things for me much as I take everything as a sign from destiny. In the past I have tried to steer things in a certain way to bring us closer together, but I have learnt so much from that. Accept destinys answer otherwise you are only delaying the answer to come back to you.
When he contacted me via email, I wasn't expecting it, at the time, my reaction in my head was, I am ready to deal with him and tell him we can be friends, but the fact that we have lost touch again is maybe fates way of saying your not ready yet, or maybe I don't need him period in my life and I am ready for that. This time apart from him, has really helped with my soul searching.
For all the time that I have shared with this man, good and bad, he will always hold a special place in my heart, but I can look back and feel confident in the fact that I really did give that relationship my everything. But at the end of that day `you can lead a horse to water, but u can't make it drink ' that stands true to virgo men. At the end of the day, my love is not what he needs to sort his mess out, he needs to do it by himself and for himself. '
I don't know if I will ever hear from him again or if he tries to get in touch again. If he does, I am happy to be friends and he has to accept that we will not be together like we were and accept that I wil move forward with someone else. If he doesn't contact me, I am still happy and will no longer reject destinys answer. Either way my life is moving forward, with or without him.
What have I learnt from all this? Well Jen, I have spent 5 years loving a man who is full of words, now I want to spend my life with a man whose actions support his words.'
Jen I would love to hear from you and how things are with u and mr virgo. If by miracle I do hear from him, lol , I will let u know. I am still curious as to why he had a change of heart after emailing me initially and why he has blocked me? What do u think ? It still puzzles me.
Lots of Love
Well Sahana, I think I find myself in a similar situation as you, perhaps just a bit more blunt. One day recently I just decided that I'm tired of thinking about all of this. I love my Virgo, I always will, but I'm just in a place in life that I want things really solid in all directions. I want to know I'm investing myself in the right people and situations, and I want to make those investments whole-heartedly. As much as I like being able to help others through this thread, I've even come to realize that all it does is put me in a negative space, dealing with my issues with Virgo over and over. Please don't take offense to that, it's just a personal matter that goes with the decision to cut Virgo loose here and - as you have said about yours - let him deal with his own stuff. (I won't actually abandon anyone here, lol. I care about you all!)
Anyway, this is all very recent, having transpired in the past few days. My last communication with Virgo was Thursday...a simple e-mail saying only: "I care about you alot". He can't even deal with me by phone on this "ending". Talking it through in person is apparently far too much to ask, lol. I'm not entirely sure how to take that e-mail. Is it acceptance? Sort of an apology? Just one more way to leave things hanging? But that's the very problem with him, the haze of uncertainty that hangs over our relationship. He's always said that's my issue, that if I trusted him, I wouldn't feel all that uncertainty.
But you see, things took a new twist too, as I figured out he has some personal demons he struggles with as well. My Cancer intuiton kicked in lately and I detected there was something going on with him that needed to come to the surface. So I asked him about it, and sure enough, there are more layers do deal with than I realized. Nothing was as simple as he made it sound. Is he a liar? Well "yes", lying to himself about some things and so, intentionally or not, lying to me as well.
It's enough in my mind to deal with the external issues that block our relationship (his marriage, his kids, his work) but to now add "personal problems" to the mix...well, as I told him, I've been able to deal with this situation so far because I trust myself. But if he can't trust himself then we're in an entirely new realm here. All along he has asked me to trust that he knows what he wants and to me that has gone out the window right now. Only real decisiveness on his part will have me convinced that he knows what he wants.
Sometimes life is like walking through the deep dark forest. At times people are there to hold your hand and lead you through the forest. Other times no one can make that journey with you and you have to make the walk yourself, and fight all the big scary bears by yourself, in order to make it to the light in the clearing, beyond the woods. Like you Sahana, I believe I have held his hand long enough, it's time for him to see if he can slay a few bears on his own. In doing this I have created my own walk through the "deep dark forest" as well. It does hurt me very much to let go of his hand, but...not if that hand is pulling on me and holding me in the dark.
Because this is such a new development, I don't know what to expect with him. I think that if I hold to my decision then that is what I should expect - to be without him and to go my own way. He may very well put up a wall as well, just like your Virgo seems to have done. Hard to say right now. If there is anything in him that really wants to try, I will know in the next month. If two months go by with no word, that will mean he has reconciled himself to his situation and won't be back.
So that is where things stand right now. A very difficult place for me right now as I mentally and emotionally adjust, but it's time for a change. It's been too long. How you made it 5 years I'll never know Sahana, lol. I need progress in my life, I have no patience for sitting in one place indefinitely. I like change, even when it hurts. I've abruptly ended relationships before with men (oh we "awful" unpredictable Cancers, lol. But I do it now with the confidence that if he wants to be friends down the road, I'll still be that to him. (I have never abruptly ended relationships and not had the man recognize later, that I didn't mean to hurt him. Things become clear later and things are peaceful.) I thought that Virgo was worth the hurt if it could lead him to change, but I think he's too...I don't even know...just plain old afraid maybe. I don't want to be afraid of change, even if it means leaving him behind.
If there are any developments I'll let you know. Lots of love to you too Sahana. Oh, but to answer your question - I have no answer. These guys need to find some answers, not us. I'm making my own answers right now, lol.