The heart of a Virgo man
Thread is acting up again. I posted, it didn't appear. I advanced the page number in the address bar and voila, there is new post from virgirl but not mine. So before I post my larger post twice, this is a test to see if it will push the next page up.
Well, here goes. If this post still happens to show up twice, sorry. Virgirl - good points. I'll have to think about that.
Voplysoply - Leave it to a Virgo to approach you with such a practical arranagement. You know I was so excited with the idea that you would have your own space, just for you, to think about what makes you happy after all these years of being with Virgo and his nonsense. Now Virgo has found a very "sensible" way to tag along.
Do you really think that he would go off to Britain without you or will he be figuring out why you would be better off moving there with him too. He'll probably find you a job and housing in Britain just to get you there with him.
You KNOW I want you to be happy but V irgo seems more like a child right now who needs you to take care of him and calm all these fears that now fill his head. It is like he is living outside of reality and he wants to pull you there with him. Voplysoply - I am a bit of an expert in living outside of reality with a Virgo - you will not want to stay in that unreality with him. If I'm not mistaken, the very reason you are here with us was because you were tired of it.
I think that you should not allow him to believe that he has any chance of moving into your new place at this time. You can keep this option open in your mind, but I wouldn't let him make these kinds of plans for you right now. He seems desperate and it seems like he is trying to exert control over your life to cover for his own needs, not really yours. Let him think he is really being left out of your plans and maybe you will start to see his true colors even more clearly - for good or bad. If I'm misreading what's going on, I'm sorry, but that's what it's looking like based on what you have been saying about him lately.
Probably time for you to decide as well if you really want to detach from him, or if deep down you want to make this work. As long as you two keep sticking together like this neither one of you is going to move on to a new relationship, nor are you going to get some breathing room for yourself VoplySoply. Virgos like numbers and schedules, set a timeline. Tell him you want six months on your own and then you will talk about him possibly moving in with you.
It took so much thought and planning and emotional decisions for you to get your own place. It really does bother me to think that he can so easily derail your plans just because he is consumed with worries about himself.
Virgirl, please don't hate being a Virgo. For a start, unlike men, female Virgos usually don't tend to be confusing, just a little controlling But then again, Aries, for instance are known for all kinds of unflattering characteristics. We all have our challenges and all make choices over who we are.
Jen and ABB, you are right, I shouldn't allow the Virgo to decide for me, and I do my best not to crack under pressure. Also, that's true, lots of the time I feel like a parent of a kind to him, which makes it difficult just to let him behind. I do love him on a human level, and feel very divided about the whole thing. These days he is much nicer to me than he has been for a long time, which in a way makes it more difficult to say no, as we get along quite nicely these days. On the other hand I do know that no matter how nice he is to me, we are not ever going to be partners in a traditional sense of the word. Part of me has almost accepted this "unreality" (as long as this doesn't mean an exclusive "relationship"), the other part is aware of how absurd this situation is. I like Jen's advice about 6 months, and will probably follow it, or something similar. I don't think he would insist on me leaving the job and going to Britain with him, but would probably try to keep me in his life somehow.
Hello everyone, I just read the last couple of pages and glad to be here. Hope that you all had a good weekend. I got a lot of organizing done at home (though I didn't finish!). It has gotten so late tonight and I will write tomorrow. But I just want to say thank you guys for your insight. Jenever, your post in particular has moved me...thank you for your words and taking the time with such a thoughtful response. I have a lot more to say but I will write tomorrow...Good night to all!
Oh and please ask me how my current boyfriend and my ex V were at the SAME party last Saturday!!!!! I live in a major city and the statistical chances of this happening have to be ridiculously low. I won’t lie it shook me up some briefly but then I thought who the he## cares, life goes on.
“Again, **** i r g o provides extremely well for my daughter and her family. Yet he is totally emotionally detached from anything other than his true interests. He goes along with certain things to maintain an outward appearance to others, as needed, yet there is very "dark" selfish side.”
You know when you read something and it resonates inside you? This statement did. My ex-V told me once (this was when we were in the early getting to know you stages), that his wife told him that she left him for “emotional” reasons. My ex in general conversations told me of several scenarios with her. 1. His ex-wife had opened her own business and as a result because of the impact it had on the community was acknowledged in a major magazine. There was a banquet dinner for her and an award ceremony (you get the idea, it was a big deal), anyway, he never went. Just didn’t show up and when I asked him why he said it was because he “fell asleep.” What disturbed me was the way he rationalized it, “she never went to anything for me.” I could not get that out of my head, how sad that must have made her, not to have her husband at her side and she called him several times but those calls were never answered because after all; he was asleep.
There was a similar incident where he just didn’t show (opening day event for the new business) and again his reason was pathetic and towards the end of that conversation he admitted, I just didn’t want to go, it would have been boring.” Yet this same man cannot understand why she’d leave for “emotional reasons.” There are more but I think you get the idea and the teo incidents I mentioned happened about 9-10 years into their relationship. He admitted she had a point, but didn’t think it was worth “destroying a relationship over.” Yes he was a great provider financially, however, she could hold her own financially as well and brought in about 45%-48% of their yearly income (their combined incomes brought in about $350,00-$400,000 annually), she needed him to BE THERE not the money.
I’ve heard the great provider comment about Vs stated quite often and I guess if that’s what you’re looking for great, but there is a very selfish side to them that makes them very, very, difficult to be with romantically. Unless they want something, then they’re the sweetest people on the planet. Anyway, ABB’s comment made me remember this (not sure why), I should have run for the hills then (after all if he treated her that way and he loved and married her, what chance did I have of being treated any better?).
VS – I think Jen’s 6 month plan is a great idea. I don’t know ..I feel like you almost got away but now he’s pulling you back.
Snowball Money does not bring happiness only makes it easier! We are social beings and meant to be emotionally and physically (touch) connected. Hope everything turned out alright with both of your guys at the same party. Yeah, and how strange is that?
Snowball - That's so crazy about the party. Reminds me of Vic's stories about running into her ex Virgo all over town and she lives in a huge city as well.
That's a sad story about your ex and his former wife. You wonder though, was there any truth in his comment that she never went to anything for him? She sounds like a pretty busy gal. Assuming there was anything to go to for him. Most people don't have banquets thrown in their honor or grand openings of their own businesses. Maybe her successes drew out his insecurities and he felt that he would look very small if he stood too close to her spotlight. Maybe it's how he kept his dignity in his own mind if he were feeling inadequate comparing himself to her success? Virgo or not, I think a lot of men would be intimidated by a woman who clearly has such drive and leadership skills. The "man is the strong s ex and the provider" mentality. He probably admired her for it and hated her at the same time, lol.
Snowball, I think Virgo was definitely jealous of his wife's success. By the way, my Virgo friend sabotages every single social event I want to attend, under pretext that they are boring, especially those in which I happen to be a focus of attention for some reason, like professional. He dislikes and disposes of good pictures of me (and recordings), and keeps the less good ones. This kind of things... I think he would be much happier if I were always somewhat invisible.
I didn't go to the party, my boyfriend went without me because I had already made plans with my family that day. He showed me some of the pictures he and his friends took there and my ex was in two of them. It looks like their tables were near each other since my ex was sitting at the table behind my boyfriend's table in both of the pics. The person taking the picture was standing so it's a great shot of my boyfriend and his friends and the table directly behind them ( the one my ex was at).
They don't know each other and it was clear my boyfriend doesn't know him ( I casually asked about the people in the pics), but yes the chances of that happening have to be soooooooooooo
slim. It was weird seeing him more so because of the circumstances, but I know I'm over him because although it did shock me I didn't have the longing for him i would typically get, just a dull sense of sadness, pity, and regret.
Jenever - I also got the sense that he both loved and resented his wife's drive. Despite everything he has accomplished, he has some deep rooted insecurities. One of the main reasons I never considered living with him (although I never told him this) is because I believe deep down he only wanted me there to bring in the income he was missing from her departure (he's had to cut back drastically and has had to make major changes ). To everyone else he's got it made and is living the life..but I knew the truth..how much he struggled to make ends meet, how embarrassed he really was that she left him for another man, how lonely he really was..no one else knew but I did. He needed (or rather wanted) me to complete the polished image he presents to the world. Yes, he was very insecure of his wife's success (despite his own) but I also think there were problems long before her business began. He says no, but given his callousness towards her feelings concerning something so important to her, I doubt it.
The fact that he could not CAN NOT see the connection between his actions and her leaving lets
me know he will not change. This is him, right down to his self centered egotistical bones.
EVERYTHING he does, every decision he makes; no matter how minor or major somehow all lead
back to him. It boggles my mind really.
Snowball - sounds just like my ex-husband. He, however, is a Scorpio. A few weeks ago someone asked me if we were back together. Said they ran into my ex and he was giving them an update on my job and our new big account and the projects I'm working on...said ex spoke so glowingly about me and seemed to know so much "you'd think you were still married".
Not really, this person just doesn't know him well enough. Ex was only talking about me because somewhere in it he felt it made him look like a better person. He could take any good thing I did and make it look like he was somehow responsible for it. And certainly I will never forget how he tried to make me suffer financially after the divorce. I was smarter than he gave me credit for back then, and I'm too smart to believe he cares one crumb about my success in life now - other than how he can use it to make himself look good or hope that one day I'll earn enough that he can keep reducing his child support payment. He is mind-boggling as well.
Good morning ladies...3:11AM here...VS, what you said just triggered something in my brain...I noticed on my page on the dating site, V would not comment on my younger pictures...He would only comment on my later pics...Nothing on my younger pics...I'm still an attractive woman, but couldn't understand why he did not comment...Can somebody shed some light on this?...Thanks ladies...Hope all is well with everyone...
Laidye, one word in Carly Simon's song "Your So Vain"! The V i r g o I knew would always send me photos of himself and I did not even care to have any. Most men do not do this, I think, unless you ask. Do they? Thought it was funny! Anyway, mentioned one day that a astrological site had mentioned that you can spot a male v i r go by their prominent forehead and that often one foot is turned slightly inward. Asked whether he had a foot that turned in and he said "No". Already knew one of his feet turned in slightly because there was a photo that showed this. The next day the photo was gone. Now, that is crazy stuff. LOL
Jenever - “Not really, this person just doesn't know him well enough. Ex was only talking about me because somewhere in it he felt it made him look like a better person. How he can use it to make himself look good or hope that one day I'll earn enough that he can keep reducing his child support payment.” EXACTLY!! – Although you know the truth, to everyone else a different picture is portrayed.
Laidye – When I was on FB, I didn’t comment on anyone’s older pics either, they just didn’t seem relevant given they were older. My ex V was the same way. Earth signs are annoyingly practical and tend to focus on the here and now, so I’m sure it’s nothing beyond that.
ABB – LOL LOL That’s funny, my V had a very prominent forehead! Not sure about the foot thing, I never noticed, but wasn’t looking so who knows.
Laidye - When I was on the dating site I didn't comment much on anyone's pictures because I figured they were usually old photos (comparing the age indicated with the pic, they usually looked younger in the photo) or they were taken in such a way that they seemed to be hiding something, such as a man with sunglasses on, or sunglasses AND a cap on, or they were so distant in the photo that I couldn't discern the details very well. Discussing the photos didn't improve their quality or verify the age of the photo, so I figured why bother. Wouldn't know the truth until meeting anyway so I usually concerned myself more with how the conversation went than with their pics. Maybe the Virgo was just focusing on what he saw as current and most relevant - who you are now, not in younger years.
Snowball - that's the whole point with guys like this - the picture they convey to the world is everything, you are just a fixture within it. Ideally a pretty, well-behaved, and marginally interesting fixture with no personal ambition of your own - other than to make his life comfortable while he strives to achieve exactly what he wants in life.
Some residual post-divorce rage in that little rant, lol.
Hello ladies, I have been following everyone's comments. Interesting to read Snowball's and Laidye's post too. I cannot believe not being genuinely happy for someone else's (non other than your spouse!) recognition and accolades! wow!. VS, I am glad you have moved away and it seemed this time was going to be finally a good place and time for you. I can only trust that if you agree to his proposal it is because you are truly respecting your own wishes as well...
Jenever, like I said the other day thank you so much for the hug and all of your words. I have been feeling very confused lately and I think my nostalgia for my ex Cancer was propelled by the recent Virgo guy's behavior. I do miss Cancer guy and definitely there's something not resolved there. If you click on my name it will show an old thread where I tell of the situation. Cancer man simply didn't even dump me. His last words were "I love you" and we were making plans to see each other in a few weeks because we were long distance. To this day I remain in sporadic contact with his family and friends, but not him. He treated me like I had offended him, he took me off his FB, didn't respond to a letter I sent him after a few months...he gave me silence and it was very hard for me, really. I still miss him, because I sense that he was influenced by other things in his decision and he took the easiest way out. Well, now with Virgo it seems I am reliving some of that. I mean, like I said in the other thread I am the common denominator and my attempts at relationships since my divorce do not pass the 5 or 6 month mark, usually end much earlier. Well, Virgo and I it has been 2 and a half months or a bit more. A week ago he told me he was falling for me, today he said he is not sure he is ready for a relationship. He is pulling back big time and I said today that I am not sure I can deal with that and perhaps it was better to end it. I said I had some expectations on our communication because we had set those up together and he showed me that and now it is not that way, in fact it is getting worse. He is just not the knight in shining armor going out of his way that he was a few weeks ago. He says he does have hesitancy, because he is going through a lot of stress at work and he does not want to bring me into that and that in some ways he thinks it would be better to be on his own, but that then he thinks about all the ways I enhance his life and that he wants to continue this. Under his terms though, he is not very open to doing things in any other way. He warms up to me when he sees me. I do not know. His feelings for me sound like a lot of rationalizations to me and not passion. I have seen those moments in him with me but he represses them just as quickly. I am messing up his plan I guess...whatever. I do not know what I want to do. I want to stay, I like him and I know there is a promise of much more but it sounds like it would take a long time if ever to get there with him. And it really sounds so much like most of the Virgo stories I have seen here...I asked, he said to see each other Sunday, now I am not so sure I should. Perhaps it is better to skip this weekend and change things around. I think I am becoming too agreeable or available in his eyes, so as much as I would like to see him maybe it is better that I don't. Or should I just let him show up if he wants to? Advice is welcome but I already can feel what all of you might say...I am ready to hear it.
Good morning ladies...Hope all is well...
I made a mistake, and told V that I can be jealous at times if I felt threaten (insecurity)...Well, he wrote two emails to me...In both he mentioned a mutual female friend of ours...He stated that "He has not talked to her, as he did not have her email address"...Not once, but twice he has mentioned this in a email...I keep in touch with her on a regular basis...Very nice person...Think this was done to see what my reaction was going to be...Nothing...I totally act like it was not part of the email....When I answer, I totally ignored what he said...The nerve, like I am going to give him her email address...I feel if she wants him to have it, she will give it to him herself...Am I reading wrong into this?...I don't think so...Another thing ladies...Do V men test you?...What is the purpose of this testing?...Is it about trust/loyalty/reactions?...
I believe I know where all of this is coming from...I asked him a very stupid question, and I realized that I really hurt this mans feelings...Very upset with me in his reponseI did not intentionally mean to hurt him, and I apologized immediately...Did not talk to me for 4 days...Just shut down...I learned that he was sensitive in the beginning of our talks...Learned after this remark, he was super sensitive...So am I...Don't think he has ever forgiving me for that...When I asked if he did, he totally ignored the question...Would not say yes, or no...Then I felt the distance, as well as the coolness towards me...I think he do these things to get back at me per se, but in subtle ways...
Everyone have a wonderful day...
MD...You know I my V did the same absolute thing...This is my theory...He told you that he was falling for you...Then he started to pull away...My take, they are no longer in control of their emotions, so they go to their man cave (pull away) to access what they are feeling...I had an uncle that was a V...He dated his gf for 7 yrs., before they got married...He treated her very well while dating because he truly loved her...I find that they show you how they love you more so than telling you (action speaks louder than words)...My uncle did the hot/cold, moody thing too, but my aunt learned to give him his space...A day or so he was himself again...Moral of the story is, yes it will be on their terms...Either you roll with it that way, or leave it alone...I forgot to mention that he was married twice...The second wife is the woman he cheated with on the first wife...However, before he died, he apologized to the first wife for his infidelity...That was in April 2003, he died in June 2003...
That's a sad story, Laidye. I think trying to accomodate Virgos (giving them space etc.) only produces sad results - he starts taking you for granted. Truly, lack of words here is the least of troubles, compared to the action - cheating. Who needs an appology at the end, when your whole life has been wasted on a cheater ?