The heart of a Virgo man



  • Jen, I have few friends who are into international conspiracies. It can be quite entertaining for a while, but it's just another way of placing responsibilitis and blame on outside forces, rather than yourself. Basically, it's a victim mentality and reluctance to grow up. By the way, my Virgo friend is not into conspiracies,and he is sceptical about people who are, but he still gets depressed because he considers himself lacking what's needed to be successful - certain stamina and the willpower to change whatever needs to be changed.



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  • Jen,

    Wow. I never got to the part of your story where the wife finds out! Sorry and yeah it sounds very convenient. Drama. I hate drama. lol Glad to hear about Ariesman though. 🙂

    This thread has got me thinking about VMgr and VBFF a lot over the past few days. It occurred to me that much of my 'head games' with manager was as much about self-preservation as anything and not necessarily about not caring even though I know its a complete brick wall. I just wanted to be completely honest about that---I'm not really as strong as I come across, it appears. The thing is, I never knew I needed to self-preserve. My life is usually straight forward and happy. Anyway, this has been a good exercise and I'm back in that place of equilibrium thanks, in large part, to the ladies on this thread.

    One thing I have found about Vmen--they do force one to be completely honest with oneself and that's not a bad thing, is it?



  • Mardepp - I am going to be honest with you and tell you that you post has left me very upset with your Virgo. In addition to what Voplysoply pointed out, that he is playing you, trying to see where your limits are, he also stated (no matter how nicely he phrased it) that he knows you will always make time for him. Now if you make yourself more unavailable would he respond to that, or simply go find someone new to play with?

    I don't like that he has you wondering what is going on with him and where he stands. Does he want to see you or not? Does he want to spend time with you or not? What's the obstacle? Ahh, that's a secret I suppose, because you might learn too much about him? I agree with you, something is wrong here. That's great that he keeps in touch. Is that enough for you? Can you live without much face-time? The only thing that he DOES seem to know for sure is that he wants to mess with your head and push emotions out of you that you may or may not want to experience. Does he have any interest in pushing positive emotions out of you or just negative ones? You always "say the right thing", but he wants to hear you cut loose and say the "wrong" things for a change. Why???? Isn't that mean really? Shouldn't he appreciate and encourage the good part of you? Frankly, right now I think he's a jerk. Sorry, I am quite sure I am projecting some of my personal feelings into this, but I just had to say all of that anyway so you can weigh it out for yourself.

    I am sure that he is Prince Charming when he wants to be, but pay attention to what he is really saying and pay attention to the comments that are capturing your attention. There is a reason that you are questioning things here. It feels funny for me to say all of this to you given our conversation on the other thread, but this just might be a case where your desire to "sabotage' things might be in your best interest. I'd like to be wrong, hope that I am wrong if you really like him, but I sense a manipulator here.



  • Scorpwwings - Regarding your comment about being completely honest with yourself - well, it's a very "tough love" approach getting to that place with some of the men described on this thread. I'd like to think there are better ways for a person to get honest with themselves than by taking as many knocks as some of the gals here have, but maybe that is the only way sometimes. I'm glad you feel like you've been helped by joining us on the thread. I know I feel the same and it's hard to believe sometimes that we're strangers here because everyone feels like good friends. 🙂



  • Hello ladies,

    VS and Jen thank you both so much for your input. I think you are right on the dot, whether he is doing this consciously or unconsciously is beyond me...I just know my signs when I start feeling uneasy and I want to make sure I am not being unfair. I do not think he is a jerk Jen, yet, I am still observing him and trying to figure it out. I practiced to pull back to and observed the signals, as hard as it is for me and my personality to not reach out if I do not hear from him and let him take the lead. The other thing that I try to do is when he reappears I am my usual cheerful self that almost didn't notice that he was pulling back...last I had heard from him was a Tuesday phone call, Wednesday I sent him a humorous text, he replied with a sweet note, nothing Thursday, today he called all happy...I can't say if he hadn't asked to see me again because he knows I am tied up with a number of things, can't say...(Jen, the comment that I made that I could make time to see him was mine actually, it is just the way I wrote it -coming from the other thought- it seemed expressed that way) In any case we had a good conversation and they are always looonnnngg, which is why I think we should see each other instead. So, while talking I asked what his plans were for the weekend, he said he didn't have any, just painting a couple of rooms in his house. He asked about me so I told him I was going to see a friend after talking to him and tomorrow I had an art event-party, that if he wanted to join me I would like that. So he said he would like that and see me, that he was looking forward to it. So, we will see how I feel tomorrow. When I am around him I feel great, but when I am apart from him I feel he rationalizes his emotions a lot. I think that is the part that worries me, that when he is around me he doesn't seem to want to let go of me but when we are apart he can be perceived by me (at least) as really detached. So, in my head I start playing negative messages "this is not working out, this is not going to work out!". Part of it is my inner negative dialogue and part of it is trying to make sure I do not ignore my intuition...Frankly, I suspect that is not that he might me a jerk but more like he has insecurities and I am willing to bet that he is OCD and it is something he feels ashamed of. So if I get too close I start seeing his flaws and he does not like that. He is a neat freak, he really is. I am organized and clean but I LIVE in a home. If you visit his house it is like no one lives there. He plans everything to the last detail and I can see that he is starting to relax now. He is not so controlling of his perception of time anymore, I can tell he is feeling more comfortable, but at the same time I do not want to see that his attention for me turns into sloppiness, does it make sense? You might be right Jen, and he might turn out to be a master manipulator. I sure hope not...

    On a different note, I find everyone's stories interesting and I am learning a lot. ScorpwithWings has a keen sense of observation...it is fabulous what you can pick up about people if you just observe all the communication dynamics; like all of the people at this place become almost characters of a play. VS, conspiracy theories can be interesting sometimes if they have a grain or two of truth in them, that is how they gain validity. Jen, give us an update on Ariesman, I hope things continue to grow steadily between you two!

    As for my Virgo guy I will keep on taking it slow, I keep trying to think that I am not in a relationship with him of any sort, so that I can maintain a level of detachment as well. Deep down I know that I am still vulnerable and he still has the power to hurt me, even this early on...so we shall see...



  • mardepp - Things with Ariesman are status quo. We are in touch every single day one way or the other, either text or talk on the phone. It's complicated to see each other with all the kids involved and their activities but so far neither one of us is gettting resentful over not spending more time together. Yesterday I asked him if he wanted to go to a work function with me in a couple of weeks, nice dinner, meet my coworkers. He has to be out of town for his son's sport tournament. So, oh well, I will go by myself. I said, "well there's always the summer picnic", and he replied, "unless you dump my sorry a s s by then!" I said, "but I think we are getting along very nicely. I like how we never have drama. I guess that could change...you might figure out what a pain in the but t I really am and dump me first! Or maybe just get sick of all my stories..." (I tell a lot of stories because I'm always reading about new things and then I want to discuss them.) To which he said, "I'm not dumping you, I really enjoy your company..and your stories, and your cute looks, and your girlish smile, and your (this one would get deleted here, lol) and you are the total package!"

    That was all last night. I'm seeing him this evening and he really, really wants me to stay the night. Since this is about the fourth time he's asked I figure I'll concede. He really wanted to get together last night, but he also wanted to watch the Red Wings game. So he finally said, well you've had such a hectic week and dealing with work and kids nonstop, why don't you take some quiet time for yourself and we'll get together tomorrow for sure. Then he still texted me all night long, but we both got to do what we wanted that way. 🙂

    You know, he's the perfect guy really. Present enough to keep me feeling secure, but not suffocating. Always there with a word of encouragment if I'm having a tough day. Never tries to mess with my emotions or make me feel guilty for not being or doing what he wants. I still have no clue how he really spends most of his time, but I feel zero reason to distrust that he would fill his time with someone other than me. Just goes fishing, or walking his dogs, or figuring out what he's going to do for work when the season hits. And he has his son every day after school for a least a few hours, and then several nights a week so he has domestic tasks. His custody situation is more complex than mine even though he has one kid and I have three. He has some big decisions to make about his work situation and what he wants to do for the future. I think when he brought up the possibility of going out West and working with the oil field projects he was hoping to hear what I thought about us long-term, but I don't want that to affect what he needs to do. Told him that, "at our ages you need to seize opportunities - if doing this will put you ahead for the years to come, then do it. We'll visit on your time off. Not like I'm going anywhere here...for at least ten more years anyway. I think your bigger concern should be about making this work with your son and the years you have together before he will be off on his own."

    Ariesman and I don't have enough history for me to influence his bigger life decisions. What I do respect in all of this though, is that he is able to think about how I fit in with the big picture. He cares about that. My ex husband was all about doing whatever he needed to advance himself and expecting me to go along on his ride - didn't care what I wanted or needed. Obviously Virgo man was only concerned with his needs (although I believe he thought that he was considerate of my needs by giving me space to live my life all on my own - he didn't interfere with me, but you see he didn't seem to understand that the result of this was that he didn't exist in my "real" life - that this was not a "relationship" and it left me feeling all alone. Twisted logic, Virgos are masters of it.)

    Speaking of Virgo though, I continue to have moments when I ponder whether things are really over with him. Every time I read a post that says, "Virgo returned after a year, or five years, or twenty years...professing his love", I ask myself what I would do in such a case. In our last real conversation (before everything blew up) he stated, "you never have to wonder - my heart always trails back to you - you hold my heart in your hands". So this is always hanging out there to challenge my mind and emotions. But then I realize that if Virgo's heart ever "trails back to me" then what happens next would depend on what was there between Ariesman and I, or whomever might be in my life if it's not Ariesman. I always say I am not a stupid woman, but I am an emotional one. I'm just going to trust that the emotional tie with Ariesman, or any other man, would hold the final answer. If that tie could be easily broken by the reappearance of Virgo, then there is probablility that it could be broken by another man anyway - Virgo man or not.

    Virgo put me through so much and yet I still have feelings for him. There's no question that there's a deep tie there, but that tie didn't play out well day to day. Maybe it was because of the obvious obstacles or maybe it's because that's how he liked things. See, that's the answer I never had and why I always, always said that the best I hoped for was to have the opportunity to see what we had between us. I could never say, "you are the one and only" because there was too much we didn't know about each other given the circumstances. So if I had a guy who was everything I could ask for and then I were presented again with Virgo and his games and uncertainty, would I want to risk what I have for Virgo?

    I said to Virgo, in that same "final" conversation that "no amount of excitement could take the place of that cozy feeling of being with someone who makes your heart feel safe and secure" and I added, "because you have another woman in your life, we don't have that kind of trust". His response (as this was via IM) was an unhappy face: 😞 Then he went on to say that he has been like a curse in my life (as usual reverting back to victim mode). I said, "I don't see you as a curse and I'm not going to be bitter, I have learned a lot in this, and it was probably things that I needed to learn".

    Probably let him off the hook too much there, lol, but what would be the point in making him think that our time together had been a waste or making him feel like a bad man. His self-esteem is shaky as it is. He already knew he had been a "bad" man. He could look at himself and state that he was a "selfish and shallow" man and that he "hurt people" and hurt me. He could admit that he has "a lot of soul-searching to do" and that it was getting "harder and harder to look at the man in the mirror". It wasn't a waste in my mind, although it was certainly unfortunate in many ways.

    Then again, here I am with all my friends here as we help each other work through life in more ways than just these Virgo men. In the grand scheme of things he led me to a place where I could explore how to be happier in life and help bring others together to explore that too. The "price" and the "prize" for his cursing my life has been something I wouldn't have discovered any other way. Although, quite honestly, I look back and feel that I was in a pretty solid and content place before he jerked me out of it, so it's easy for me to stil look at everything and think, "this was all about Virgo in the end". I feel like I just looped back around to re-find what I already had going for me when I first met him. As I said to him so many times, "I don't belong in this with you, and we both know it" and then I would say, "so what's the purpose in us meeting"? To which I still don't have a good answer, but maybe someday it will all become clear.

    Moral to that long story though, mardepp, is what you already seem to know. You can tell yourself that you are detached, but you are not. You are going to find that you think about this a lot, trying to make sense of it. The effort to remain detached becomes part of it all. It's an investment in you trying to control your emotions to avoid hurt. How much nicer it is to not have to control your good feelings about someone and let go of worries about ultimately getting hurt because what you have in the moment is good and honest and open. That's what I have with Ariesman right now, I'm not worrying about anything, just enjoying him. He doesn't leave me fearing that he's going to hurt me, and hopefully I don't leave him feeling that way either. So the short answer to your question is that things are going along very peacefully.

    🙂



  • Oh my! Hope everyone is doing well! 🙂



  • Jen,

    I'm so happy things are great between you and Ariesman! I really am, I'm a sucker for a good love story... Virgo is still in my life; I just wish I had an "Ariesman" to take my mind off him. I would give anything to meet someone like your Ariesman appears to be. Sounds like a keeper! 🙂



  • Ariesman definitely sounds like a keeper, Jen ! Judging by the fact that your best friend is also an Aries lady, I'd say, this sign seems to work for you . I'm so happy that you are happy and at peace !



  • Hello ladies. I know I have been away for awhile, but I see a lot has been going on. Hello to all of the newbies, and welcome. Well I'm to start by cursing all these damn virgo men...lol...Have not talk to virgo in long while. I deleted him from my phone, and from my email. Well guess who the hell calls Thursday?. Yup caught me so off guard. I really must be getting over him, because I didn't even recognize his number. (good for me)...

    When I heard his voice, I was totally shocked. He says "long time no hear from". My reply was, I'm busy. He says "I see". Then here we go for the roller coaster ride, hold on Nelly...lol..."Since you have been gone, you have forgotten about people". I told him, "Only the ones I choose to". Now silence. Think I stepped on a toe or two, but what the hell. He says, "Am I one of those people?". I told him he headed the list. Was I being too blunt, and direct?. Oh well, too damn bad. Now he rolls the strike. "When can I see you?". For what I asked? "I really need to talk to you". "I am making some life decisions, and I would like to include you in them". "I miss you". "I miss our talks, texts, & IM's". Before I let him go any further, I told him I had to go to the bathroom to pee, and would call him back.

    I really don't know where that was heading to. No, I didn't call back. I would bet some money, I am going to get another call. I am so over whelmed here. Ladies, what should I do?. Part of me wants to know what it is he has to say, and the other part is telling me to keep stepping. I know what you are going to say, but tell me any way... 😞



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  • Laidye, it's obvious what is going on here - Virgo wants his toys back. He wants his influence back, he wants to feel in control again. Well done for responding him the way you did, but now he'll probably make it his project for the next few months to get you back to where you were - under his spell. "Life decisions - where have I heard it before ? Oh yes, the other Virgo men on the thread, and one tortured soul at home." Please, don't fall for it, it's just another trap, however convincing it might sound.



  • Bless you Laidye, you did the right thing and you also know the answer. V cannot just pop up and expect anything more than how you responded. BTW, He taught you well. He too, now is no longer important enough for you to get right back with him, if at all. He had his chance and was not man enough to do what is needed in a relationship. His loss and a big one at that. Also, VS is right..."life decisions" is a term that Vs use regularly when they truly know they screwed up and believe that just their charm and using female catch words will win you back. It's the hook. These words are the number one red flag for manipulation at work. Vs use this term as their "ultimate" weapon for reeling you back, because they know/knew how much you cared about being part of their life which BTW wasn't of concern to them while you two were seeing each other. Hope my opinion is not too harsh. Laidye, you sound as if you're doing very well so remove any doubt and just keep doing what it is you're doing. ♥



  • Laidye- Good to hear from you! Wowz, what timing here, did you read my last post...your very situation is my lingering concern with my Virgo man. Always in the back of my mind because of how often this has come up in the thread...these guys coming back later looking to pick up where they left off. Or rather where they left you hanging and left you to pick up the pieces and just when you think you are finally out of the emotional woods, here they come back.

    I like what Voplysoply and AriesBB have said. I would also add that, despite you directly saying that he is top of the list of people you want to forget about, he completely ignored that and rolls on about what he wants. I guess I would be curious as to what constitutes a "life decision" to one of these guys? "Life" as in this week in life? I don't see any of these men thinking very far past their very immediate needs. Sure, everyone is best living in the present, but really, most of us need some sort of masterplan beyond the next few weeks.

    Now you also have distance between you, right? I should go back and read where things left off, but my point is that even if you were to rekindle something here, there are new complications. He misses your talks, texts, and IM's. Uh huh. He misses just knowing you are out there for him...but what else does he have to offer to YOU? Seems to me that too often, just knowing you are there in a text or an e-mail suits many of these guys just fine. They don't need much more than that. So what would it take for him to bridge the physical distance between you? Is that in his plans, or he just wants to keep you hanging around? He's all about telling you what he wants, dish some of that back at him and see what happens.

    I am really impressed with your self-control so far and not reacting until you've thought things through for yourself. Good for you!!! No easy answer here, but you are doing the right thing by holding back and not jumping in. Thanks for returning to share this turn of events with us. Very interesting. You just keep your head straight, laser-focus on what you need, not what he wants and the right answer will come to you. Keep in touch, we are all here supporting you!!!



  • Ariesman update - He announced last night that he is for sure heading out west to work. Says he's not sure if he wants to wait a few months, work his regular season here and then leave, or just go for it and leave in a few weeks. Soo, well...I admit I was a little disappointed because of the complications that will come from this going forward. I'm sure I would see him when he comes to town, but I was kind of hoping for a guy who would be around to do things with me, not just be a quick visit once a month or something. I think this new situation would be not much different than what I had with Virgo as far as developing any kind of relationship.

    But, having said all that, I think this is something Ariesman should do. I think it would be a great adventure for him and put him in a more comfortable financial position and give him some confidence to set off in other new directions. He's used to running his own show and the state of the local economy has forced him to find a new path. This might be a good space for him to figure out what comes next. His youngest son is only 12 years old, and they spend a lot of time together, so it's not like he can stay away. In fact I think his boy is going to be the biggest obstacle to him really making this move. In any case, I'm not attempting to influence him in any direction. Like it would matter anyway, lol. Aries don't want to be told what to do right? He seems to be able to solve his problems just fine on his own and I know he will keep in good touch as he always does, so we'll just have to see how things go.



  • Jenever, who knows this move could turn out not to be so bad. If Ariesman is not successful in his own right, eventually the struggle financially could become a bigger problem and I wouldn't want to be with a man struggling with no future economical chances. You are right in not interfering as it is definitely a big decision for him to make and might cause him much concern. Not sure that this could be equated as similar to what you and Virgo had. If Ariesman is financially stable you two could probably arrange to see each other more often than you might think, since as you said his son is so important to him. Either way, you've definitely found someone that truly cares for you and he also sounds likes he's a special type of guy. You're very lucky just to have him in your life, even if just as a friend for now. And, yes Aries do not like to be told what to do, but they listen carefully to other's advice and more often than not are very considerate of other's feelings. Wishing you the best of luck!



  • Hi all ! First of all, I cannot believe how long this thread is, or can I ? I feel for all of you dealing with this "virgo man". I too am dealing with one. Also could use some advise from "professionals" !! lol I'm a Sag girl, wondering about a Virgo man. From what I've read, over and over and over again. Sag and Virgo are no match. However, I don't expect a long term relationship. I do however, want a relationship. No matter how long it shall last. As you all have said, there is a deep, deep connection. We both can "feel" eachother when we're not together. This has been going on for 3 yrs. Let me say there is an age difference and "other circumstances" that prevent us from being together. But, my thoughts are, this may be the best possible relationship, "for us". I've expressed my feelings for him, possibly too early, however, in the beginning of our "relationship", he was the one to tell me that he loved me. I avoided this "love talk" at all costs. We've been back and forth with love and lust, breaking it off and coming back together for 3 yrs. I am so lost. I am so "infatuated" with him I just don't know what to do anymore. He is of course, so practical about our relationship, that I know whole heartedly that we can never be. But I can't let him go. I've tried. And he keeps coming back. He's constantly "testing me", pulling back, and the usual from the "typical virgo man". How do I get him to trust me ? OR, how do I let him go ?



  • Hi emotionsucks, welcome to the thread. So, when you ask how to get him to trust you what do you mean? Trust what about you? You have known him for three years, that's a long time. If he doesn't trust you by now, then is it possible that this is not as deep as you think it is? I know all about what "practical" means - it means he isn't going to let his feelings for you interefere with his priorities. HIS, not yours or your feelings.

    Honestly, based on everything we know about some of these Virgo's, if you believe that this can never really be with him, then you need to make the decision about whether you want to continue in this. He keeps coming back because you let him come back. You take him back because you want him, I understand that completely, but if you are never really going to have the kind of relationship you want with him, then you are the only one who can start the process of letting him go. Begin by redefining the relationship as friends only, not friends with benefits, friends only. Then stick to that. You say you don't expect a long-term relationship, well three years is long enough then. Any longer and you should probably just face the fact that this is as good as it's probably ever going to get. Or at least as long as those "obstacles" remain in place. Only you can decide how long you want to wait hoping to move a mountain.



  • Hi Ladies. EmS, welcome to the Virgo detox thread. I absolutely agree with Jen and only want to add - don't waste your precious time on someone who doesn't seriously consider you for a partnership. All you do is postpone the inevitable disappointment, and deprive yourself of a chance to meet someone who could make you happy ans fulfilled in the near future . Make the process of detachment on your terms, don't wait until he gets involved with someone else (or is he already?) and breaks your heart. Virgo men are very addictive, because of uncertainty and craving for more that they create, but they are not capable of sustaining a real relationship, therefore you have to decide what it is that you want for yourself.


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