The heart of a Virgo man

  • Thanks for all your kind thoughts Mimi. It actually has been a wonderful twist of Fate that my Scorp found me when he did. I have asked myself several times whether I would have collapsed back into the emotions with my Virgo if I didn't have Scorp there helping me keep perspective ("yes" I know, he's a scorpio and ultimately he won't be satisfied until Mr. Virgo is pushed completely out of the picture, lol, but he is having the positive affect of keeping me realistic about Virgo and his intentions).

    I think your Virgo is right about saying "I love you" all the time. In my opinion it can easily lose all significance if the actions don't support the words. Seems like you understand that and it's not a big deal. And why should it be really, if everything else between you is loving and he's there for you in all ways. I'd rather have that than someone who says they love me every single day but doesn't treat me with love - THAT'S the guy I divorced. 😉 That's also the Virgo I just "let go". Although I must say, I was a bit surprised yesterday when, at about eleven o'clock last night, my IM popped up with a message from Virgo, "Happy Valentines Day Jenever" with a little "wink" emoticon attached to it. I just said, "Thanks and same to you" and nothing more was said.

    This all gets me wondering about bluewatermama's thoughts about him right now...he may still just be looking for ways to keep me pulled in with him. I know that his point last night was a way of saying, "see, I am thinking about you". Which is enough to keep me irritated with him in some ways actually. If the fool has something he wants to say to me, he ought to just spit it out, lol. I'm a Cancer, he's already hurt my feelings, it's a miracle I'm still talking to him. My move to "transform" the relationship right now was very much intended to remove us both from an emotional quagmire and into the "light" of reality - before things really did turn bad. If he starts playing mind games (and oooh I know he likes them) muddying up my Cancer waters, well he's going to get quite a pinch from this little crab.

    As far as the astrological stuff, unfortunately, I am no help. Many many years ago a woman who knew all about such things told me I have a Virgo ascendent and that's about as much as I know about me. You know, you should just post a question on the Astrology threads and I'm sure someone can help you. I know I have read posts before where suggestions have been made as to websites where you can learn more . I meant to save the sites, but once I didn't - well it's a needle in a haystack now trying to figure out where I might have seen them. If you do start a thread let me know so I can check it out. I will say that my favorite books dealing with relationships and astrology are those by Linda Goodman; "Sun Signs" and "Love Signs". She is so on the money with her descriptions of each sign's characteristics and how they generally mesh together...she's amazing really, I've never found her to be wrong. Check it out if you've never seen them. I can't relate all that was said about the Scorpio woman/ Virgo man relationship, but I looked it up real quick and suffice to say he needs long as you have the patience to put up with him and all his negative, nit-picking, perfectionist and often insensitive ways it sounds like you'll be fine. Lol. Perhaps you'd better have a look at the books.

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  • Jenever7 and all the wonderful queens in here.

    Ladies, Ladies, Ladies,.... My story here too lies. I therefore can empathize. (ooh I'm rhyming lol). But I came to realize that no matter how much he is my SM. I deserve better. I have to believe, because it is the truth. It is what we want and we have to stand by that.

    I found that giving 1/2 just doesn't cut it. I need to give me completely. My complete love does not shine thru any other way. SO..if he wants to be with you, Stand your ground and let it be known. You're not FORCING him to make a decision. If you allow him to continue in his behaviour, that's exactly what he will do. CONTINUE!!

    I allowed myself to become broken, by accepting what he could give, which was just the remainder, what he could, and I gave and forgave and made excuses and allowed, and he kept on...........

    In conclusion, he will only do what you allow him to as long as you allow it. Be strong and stand your ground. It may cost you, then again you may gain. But pain does eventually go away and you can start all over anew and with new eyes.

    Be blessed..hope this message reaches someone.

  • Forgot to add...I love this place as it allows us a place to connect with others in need of healing, guidance, a voice, and sometimes just love, no matter how tough sometimes

  • Hmm. I had a Virgo man who I thought was my spiritual soul mate and an honorable, admirable man of high ideals. I felt safe, happy, blissful in his presence. Great chemistry. He was constantly speaking of spirituality, philosophy, morals, ethics, medicine, and planning a future which included me etc etc I fell fast and hard. I thought I found "the one". LOL

    He dumped me without any forewarning, respect, or common courtesy whatsoever. I look back and remember, that I was so blinded by what was happening between us, and the lovely flowery things he'd say, and his twinkling eyes, that he had mentioned past behavior where he broke up with girlfriends in order to experience other 'experiences' (that was his way of saying sex with other women) then was depressed that he lost the original partner. That in the past, they told him, 'how could you just through me away like a piece of garbage?' He would cry and say he was haunted by that past, yet, guess what...he did the same exact thing to me, so it was not the past, it's a pattern of behaviour that he partially regrets but does not change. On the other hand, my brother is a Virgo, and while he was guilty of some less than stellar behavior, he tended to fall pretty hard and was faithful in his relationships. So again, you got to look beyond the sign/sun sign. As tragically romantic as it sounds, I have a bad feeling he is not telling you the whole truth. I am guessing his wife does not know what he is doing. So as noble and selfless as it sounds, 'for the children', he is breaking a vow (I didn't read "open marriage"), deceiving his wife, and perhaps himself and you in the process. You have to wonder, if your relationship with ever became troubled, would he tell you? Would he try to work it out? Or would he just continue, and as time permitted, seek solace elsewhere? Just things to think about. You sound like a beautiful person, who really wants to love and be loved and who is a true romantic at heart. I agree with the above post, you deserve 100 percent. So does his wife. Dad or not, he's got to man up and make a choice, it's just too unkind and unjust to you and her both. (Yeah, and this place is therapeutic for me, too sorry if I am a bit rough this morning folks.)

  • to everyone of some VIRGO interest. The word virgo clearly suggests a virginal essence. but, in my associations with the many I know, they are more clever and brilliant and even quietly beguiling than anything virginal.. It seems there is nothing their minds won't believe is okay, but they know is something just not right with every word and action you convey. They trust in themselves deeply, because noone is more perfectly getting the full view of life better than how they SEE all the clues and all the real reasons and all the best or most perfect outcomes. If the S___ don't add up, then they speculate and even hurt trying to make good(virginal) on the person. This makes them terribly maddening-all the secrets, lies, and deceit. They only want the best for they want to give you their best in return. The hardness they evoke is not some impossible attitude, but their struggle with tending to your best coming to life. They are keepers and homemakers, not losers and messer uppers. Everything must be on time, all the time. If you are slackers and out of shape and an emotional wreck, they fall out of goodness(virtuosity the virgin) real fast. Stay fit and Stay on time is the key to their staying with you. Johanna of Jacksonville.

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  • Ditto what Mimi said - very interesting posts.

    EmeraldFields, I actually said to Virgo in all of this that I believed (not suspected but truly BELIEVE) that he could find a way to justfiy just about anything he wants no matter whether it's good or bad - just as long as it suited him and HIS circumstances at the moment. As an example of how this operates, I suggested that he lies to me. His response was: "I have no reason to lie to you". Okay, now this is how his Virgo mind operates in my opinion. What he has really said there is absolutley nothing. He does not admit he lies, he has not said that he does not lie to me, he simply says he has no reason to lie to me. Well, that's always true isn't it, lol. None of us ever has a good reason to lie to another, doesn't mean we won't, just bottom line there's never a really good reason for it. But that is the hair-splitting level that I have to get to in order to really "hear" what Virgo is saying...and listen closely for what he is not saying, and frankly, all that digging around for the truth gets to be a real headache after a while.

    Hanna66 - I appreciate what you are saying too. I continue to get nice little messages from Virgo since I backed off from things. Much more attention than I have received for weeks prior to "giving us up". But I suspect that his real motivation is somehow redeeming himself in my eyes. I really do believe he respects me as a person and at the same time he recognizes that he has treated me with disrespect. Now that I've called him on it and said, "enough", I think he is hoping to lure me back in just as a way to tell himself that he's not really a bad person. I truly think that he respects me enough that I become some sort of "stamp of approval" and another way for him to justify his naughtiness. Sort of like, "well if J can still love me no matter what I do, I can't be all that bad, can I?" Anyway, all his attentions now are suspect. He is up to something, that's for sure. As I say, it may be as simple as needing my approval and has nothing to do with emotions. So, as I have stated recently in this thread, the most important thing for me is to just stay true to myself, and resist anything coming from him that isn't clearly grounded in truth or comes from his I sort that out I have no idea, LOL. Just going to continue to keep a healthy mental and emotional distance from him.

    Now for those of you wondering why I don't just walk away from Virgo at this point and call it a day, all I can tell you is "I can't". Those of you involved with these strange creatures know exactly what I'm talking about. For all the rest of you, go ahead and shake your heads in disbelief, I've done it plenty myself, lol. I've even said to him, "I can not believe the stuff I put up with out of you, if you were anybody else I'd have written you off a long time ago". But right now I still can't shake this man off completely. In spite of all of his obvious shortcomings, I can still honestly say I've never "experienced" anyone quite like him in my whole life, and that hasn't worn off yet.

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  • Good Morning Jenever7

    I understand.

    For as much as you let go, you're drawn. I feel though that he'll do something that'll break the camels back and you'll say "enough". When the time is right.

  • Hello Darling Jenever,

    Wondering how you are. I just read up on the recent posts on this thread. Thank you for the compliments you have given me 😉 Please let me/us know how you are doing and continue to pray specifically for clarity. (and for God to send you the right mate whoever that may be).

  • Wow, all of these recent posts humble me, you gals are so awesome with all of your support. I must admit that I feel like I've put myself in a self-imposed cage here and not letting anyone in who doesn't have the right "key". Not easy when the emotional pulls are so strong in all directions. Thanks for the reminder bluewatermama, it is very easy to get caught up in the details here and you are most right, I need to just keep praying for that clarity all the way around. I keep reminding myself too that there doesn't need to be any real answer in any of this.

    I don't know how to describe where my mind is right now other than I feel like I'm walking through the middle of something with both these men that actually may not have anything to do with me and wherever I may be headed down the line. To me THEY both went looking for something and in their "looking" they found me, so somewhere in this THEY find what they want/need which obviously isn't in line with whatever it is I want/need or I probably wouldn't still be here on the forum spilling it for all of you folks, lol.

    So that leaves a great big gaping door open for something else or someone else to come along and "meet me in the middle" - MY middle for a change - while these guys get left on the sidelines sorting their stuff out. I really never do underestimate what surprising things life can present us when we keep our hearts open to change and trust that our own path will take us where we are supposed to go. Not easy to hold that thought right now with all the emotions but I just keep trying to build on that and pay attention to all the bright things I have going on in my life.

    Which is all of it really, lol! I'm actually in a very good place all the way around - if I can just avoid men who pull me into their "neediness" with only a second thought to me (the emotional Cancer "mama" in me is just too easily seduced by broken souls). And all of you here who offer your support are my reminders to keep staying focused on all those bright things so that lots more of it can just keep on coming! And somewhere in all of that, I'm hopeful that these guys can learn something too about looking inside for their own little light that guides them, instead of thinking it makes sense to just take what you need or expecting that anyone else can heal what ails you on the inside. Am I making sense here? I know what I want to say, but it's hard to put into words, lol.

    In any case, thank you all and I will continue to keep you posted on how things evolve here. 🐵

  • Jenever,

    without any particular man in mind will you post a list on here of at least 10 to 20 traits or qualities that would make up your perfect mate?

  • Bluewatermamma are you setting me up here? Lol.

    Actually, I have such a list already. It was an exercise during my counseling sessions four years ago at the point when divorce was imminent (a "learn from your mistakes" exercise to carry me forward). The rule for the list was "anything goes", for instance if you want a guy who makes a ton of money, put that on the list, you want a guy who never burps, put that on your list, if you want a guy with all his hair, put it on the list, and so on - the idea being to get as detailed and realisitic about things as possible . Then my instructions were to simply realize that any time I get involved with a man who does not possess any ONE of those characteristics on my list, then that's initiating a compromise. Then I have to weigh out whether a potential relationship would be worth giving up that characteristic - i.e. accepting that "flaw" in my ideal mate. Is it a "deal-killer" or could I let it slide. It's a pretty interesting exercise that I recommend for any single person.

    But anyway, here's my list (and I'll remind everyone here that I "get" that no one is perfect but at the same time I believe that every one of us has the potential to be seen as perfect by another - just depends on what we are looking for - and I believe that's all most of us hope to find - that sense that "we're perfect together". Kind of the "one man's trash is another man's treasure" theory on relationships, haha.)

    So I want a man who:

    -Is intelligent without being a know-it-all or a bore.

    -Finds humor in life and can laugh at himself.

    -Self-aware and can take responsibility for his actions - doesn't get defensive, accusing, and blaming when we have a disagreement.

    -Likes me just the way I am, doesn't try to change me.

    -Is open-minded spiritually.

    -Doesn't cut me off when I'm talking.

    -Respects that I can have my own opinions and that I am not wrong just because I think for myself.

    -Cleans up after himself.

    -Takes reasonable care of himself - isn't fat.

    -Respects other people and cultures - not a racist or a bigot.

    -Doesn't provoke jealousy in me.

    -Can be relied upon to be there for me when I need him most.

    -Can be relied upon to give me space when I need it most.

    -No more than 3" taller than me so I can look him eye to eye - and not have him look down on me, or force me to always look up to him.

    -Understands that the only good reason for an exclusive relationship is because you find a level of peace, acceptance, support, and security in each other that no one else can give you.

    -Passionate about intimacy (had to clean that one up so it didn't get "****"'s, lol)

    -Trusts the relationship enough that we don't have to do everything together - we can both have our own interests without any guilt about it taking away from the relationship.

    -Enjoys his work, and if he doesn't, he is smart enough to be figuring out what to do about it instead of just living with it, or worse, whining at me about it.

    That's pretty much it. Oh, other than at the point I discovered Virgo guy was married, I literally took my list and added, "single, divorced, or separated with a divorce in progress". Well, I believe in "visualisation" to some extent and I figured I better not take any chances that the Universe might get confused on that point again, haha.

    Also, if you're wondering about the absence of material concerns on my list it's because I don't care about a man's finances. I've never been involved with a man who wasn't competent to provide for himself so I just see that as a non-issue. A lack of personal motivation won't get him through my door anyway, period. Has nothing to do with his income, everything to do with personal priorities. An enthusiasm for doing your best in life may not make you rich, but it will make you a much more pleasant person to be around I think. I'm not greedy either, I like being comfortable but living within my means makes me feel secure so I don't get worked up over things like houses and cars or whatever anyone else has.

    I also don't include my children within this list because, while I care about their welfare, finding a life partner is about my life, not theirs. Needless to say, if I were involved with someone they hated, and they gave me good reasons for their concerns, well I'd want to consider their thoughts. But I really believe that if I am convinced that I've found the right man, that my children will accept him because they trust me. I have no history at all of dragging men in and out of their lives since my divorce and no intention to start now. Virgo asked me not so long ago, what I thought my kids would think of him. I said, "they would think that you must be a pretty good guy if their mom calls you a friend, because they know all my friends, they are good people, my kids enjoy them, and I believe they trust that I make good decisions on the company I keep."

    Speaking of my Virgo, I couldn't help but note that this morning's e-mail was signed off with "love, R". Now that's never happened before. Of course I've never, in the course of a year, received e-mails from him every day for a week either, or communicated with him in any way every single day for any period of time. You know, it very well may have been a mistake to let either Virgo or Scorp know about the other. Now it's very hard to know what's operating here...affection for me, or just primal male ego. Not that Virgo is talking about "us" mind you, oh no, it's all just chit-chat about different topics, not about us. BUT the point is (and you can be darn sure he is fully aware of what he is doing expecting that I should see this) the point is that he is making a space for me in his day. He is letting me know that he is not going anywhere despite all that's been said and now he dares to use the "L" word. Hmmm....

  • Well I think it depends on the mars and venus influence for someone's sexual and love behavior. I'm a Virgo myself. Most Virgo men I know are very faithful and usually get cheated on.

  • Hi everyone, I’m new to this forum, but I have been with my Virgo man for 5 years now. Some of the things that you guys have written, honestly it feels like those are my words, it’s scary you know, lol. Well whatever they are, we need to thank our virgo men for doing one good deed, for bringing us all together. I always felt alone in my understanding the virgo man’ but I thank god, that I came across this forum . A problem shared is a problem halved. I would love some input from you all as currently I am at a crossroad with my love life and am not sure whether I am strong enough to let go of my virgo man. I am a scorpio woman, they say its one of the best combinations for a virgo man, I don’t know about that lol. Being a scorpio I never do things in my life half heartedly, its always all or nothing for me, if I take something up then its with a passion. I am determined and loyal in all my relationships till the very end. Before I met my virgo man I had a previous long term relationship with an Aries man for 9 years. I wanted to get married to him, but at the end of the 9 years he married someone else. I actually bumped into him and his mother shopping for a wedding ring at a jewelers shop (whilst we were still seeing each other), that’s how I found out, when I confronted him, he came out with it all. Anyway that was a sad and harsh experience for me. It took me a couple of years to heal and find my way back and to be able to trust men again although I can’t say again I still trust them fully. A few years down the line I met my virgo man at work. The funny thing is I wasn’t looking for anyone at the time and I know he wasn’t either. They say you always fall big when you are not looking and that’s exactly what happened to me. I was still carrying sadness in my heart from my previous experience, but would put on a brave smile at work. Anyone that didn’t know me, wouldn’t know any better, it would take someone rather special to notice what was hurting deep inside, my heart. Enters the virgo man. They say that when you go through sadness in your life, sharing someone else’s pain helps heal your own wounds. When I first met him the first thing I noticed was his smile was like mine, it never reached his eyes. I feel you can read a lot about a person through their eyes. He was smiling on the outside but I felt like there was some sadness behind it. We were attracted to each other almost like a magnet, there was a very strong pull from the beginning. To speed things up a bit for you all, we started a friendship, there was a lot of flirting too, but I can safely say that he was more after me at the time because I wanted things to go slow, because I was cautious that I didn’t want to start an office affair, I didn’t want anything casual and also I had already been hurt in my previous relationship and had promised myself that this time I would take my time and not trust so easily. I was on a temp contract at work and eventually left the company. He continued at the same place but moved branch. We met up a few times as friends, we were still friends at this point. Then one day he took me out and said he wants to start a relationship together and that he cant stop thinking about me. However I was not prepared for the next thing he was about to tell me. Before I tell you all what that is, at this point, even though we had worked together in the past, nobody at work knew a thing about us, I made that clear to him and so I never knew about him his family what his background is and I would never ask colleagues incase they think why is she interested in him? Call me naïve but that was the point when he first told me that he is married. I was shocked and hurt because I thought to myself why me? Why does this always happen to me? Just when I find someone I really want to be with, life throws more obstacles in my way. I listened to him patiently as he told me his story. He said that he had been married to his wife for 13 years and that the marriage is non existent. They have fallen out of love for each other and he doesn’t think it will last. He said the only reason he has put up with it is for the sake of his 2 boys. He said at that point that no one can predict the future but my intentions are to be with you. I need to be in a loving relationship and I want a new life for myself. Even at that point, my heart did feel sorry for him that he is in a trapped marriage but my head ruled and said thank you but no thank you, we can be friends, that’s all I can offer you I am sorry (I was protecting my own heart). It wasn’t the answer he wanted but he said ok just friends. Then he smiled and said I can meet you for coffee some time then? And I laughed and said yes. What go to me was that cheeky smile, its like he always knows whats going to happen next with us, its like he’s steering everything calmly and quietly the way he wants things to go even though I have said the right wordno’ why does it feel like a yes with virgo men. They know the art of persuasion I can tell you that. To cut a long story short, after a lot of meetings, eventually he got the yes that he wanted, but I made it very clear to him that I am init for the long haul not anything casual. If casual is what he wants, then there are plenty more fish in the sea, I am not stopping him. He knew my intentions from the beginning, I have never experienced marriage and if things went well between us, I definitely felt this soulmate connection with him and wanted us to be together for the rest of our lives, he said he felt the same too. This was in 2005. Over the next year we kept seeing each other, but I noticed the honeymoon period’ was wearing off with him and he was becoming forgetful about us. The phone calls stopped and text messages. Suddenly I found myself in a world where I was putting more in to get something out of him. I stopped and started analyzing things and saw that he had become complacent about the two of us and our future together. My friends starting telling me that he has it all the wife the kids and you, wake up! I also noticed that everytime I would ask him about us and our future together, he would just frown and no answer. He stared to become very private and soon the conversations went down to a minimum, he did not like conversations or arguments or any kind of confrontation, so soon enough the emotions were gone and all that was left was the physical side of the relationship which he was still keen on keeping. Being a scorpio this was not enough for me. I need to feel fulfilled by my man in every way, emotionally, physically and spiritually. I would sit at home and cry alone, thinking about our first year and how terrific he was towards me. Everybody around me said that I need to start looking out for myself because that is what he is doing. We were still in touch but not as often as we used to be. I started to keep my distance from him, if he would call I would answer but I stopped initiating everything for the both of us. It was draining me deep inside. Whatever was going on in his life, one day we had an argument and he told me to keep out of his business (by which he ment his family). That really hurt me because I have always been supportive for him, I am not a nosey or pushy partner, I know when to respect a person’s space, it really hurt that he could even think that. That day I decided I will focus on myself. After the argument, normally I would always be the one to kiss and make up first but I didn’t. He noticed a change in me but couldn’t quite put a finger on it. All of a sudden out of the blue he started phoning me and messaging me like the good old days (after telling me for months it is difficult to phone because the wife is around, all of a sudden everything is ok?). But I did not jump to his tune, I would say sorry in a nice way and make out I have other plans and I am busy. At this point in my story it is important to mention that we both worked as Retail Managers in our profession. It was now December 2006 and I was approached by a Company to go out and work in Dubai for a Retail company as a manager. I had 2 interviews and didn’t tell him anything about it. To be honest I never did think I would get the job. In Jan 2007 I got the job offer, which was ment to start in March 07\. I accepted. I didn’t look at it as if I am leaving him, but more a test of our love. I believe that wherever you are in the world, that does not matter, that is just geography, true love will always prevail. I had thought about it in my mind and that if he really wanted, we could still keep in touch on video call on msn and email each other. My posting was only for a year and a half out there. I also felt that I needed time away from him to think alone about what I want. For the first time I was putting myself first before him. I decided not to tell him until the last 2 weeks before I had to go. The reason for this was I noticed a selfish side to him when he wants to be. He is very protective and private about his own life but when it comes to mine he needs to know everything. He knew everything about me, which I guess made him lazy about me, I just wanted to jolt him and wake him up and make him realize that I will not be around forever. The day I told him, my friend made me laugh, she said she wished she was a fly on the wall or had a camera to take his picture. I still remember the moment, he asked me to repeat myself 2 times, as if what he heard was not true. At first he looked shocked and didn’t say anything, just ok, ok. Then the bruised male ego kicked in and a very quiteI’m happy for you’ came out. Then after a pause, I wish you the best of luck’ as if we were saying bye forever. I looked at him and saidwhy where am I going?’ I held his hand and said yes I am moving, it will give you time to focus on what you want to do, but its just geography, I will always live in your heart’. Then I returned home after seeing him. I did not hear from him until the last week. He asked me to come out and see him but I really was up to my neck with things and could not make it. We said bye on the phone before I left for the airport, he said I know I have lost you and I said no you have not. When I got to Dubai I made sure I kept in touch with him through emails, we even kept intouch on the phone sometimes. I could sense that he misses me a lot and thinks about me. Later that year he mentioned to me that he was not enjoying work and he wished he could be out here in Dubai with me. He even asked me how I got the position. I said to him nothing is impossible if you really want it. He said you are lucky you can do what you want, my life is stuck. I said go out there and create opportunities for yourself. I wanted to change his mind so he starts to think positive about life. I immediately asked him to email me his cv. I then asked him if he didn’t mind if I sent his cv to a few companies, he said you can but nothing will happen. I told him to leave it with me. I brushed up his cv and started to send it out to numerous companies in dubai. I made phone calls and sent faxes and was determined to get him here. A couple of months went by but there was no response to his cv. Then one day I got a call from him, he was very negative towards me and started saying we have nothing in common and that I was selfish to go away and now he needs to think about himself. That’s when he told me that since I had gone he had started seeing a girl at work. Typical man out of sight out of mind’. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing especially after all the ground work I was doing to get him here. I just told him best of luck and put the phone down. To be honest at the time I was so shocked, I did not know how to react and slammed the phone down and burst into tears. It took me a whole week to get out of my room, other than work I was just house bound trying to absorb it all in. The next few months were difficult for me alone, I just kept thinking back as to where I went wrong. Work was the only thing that kept my mind off things. Then one day I received an email from him titled THANK YOU. I opened it and it had details of his ticket to dubai, he was coming in the next 2 days for a job interview. One of the companies that I had sent his cv to contacted him and sent him a ticket to come for a job interview. I didn’t know whether to jump for joy or cry. I decided to ignore it as if I had not received it. Then I started getting missed calls from him on my mobile which I ignored. He must have know at this point that I was furious and did not want to talk. Then he did something we both said we would never do, he called my work place and finally got hold of me. He told me he just wants to see me once and then I can decide if I want to see him or not, just so he can explain. I said I would get back to him. At first I spoke with my sister and said I am still mad, but my sister made me calm down and said I have nothing to lose if I see him the once, just so he has a chance to explain himself, after that I can decide what I want to do. When we met he was really apologetic, I told him he is only that way because he got the interview, he said no. He said when I left he found it very hard to get over me and the girl he saw was just a few times, casual sex which he thought will help him forget me, but it didn’t work. I told him that at this point in time I can only be friends with him because he has broken my trust and hurt my feelings. He said that’s fine and then he left to go back to the airport. I asked him how his interview was and he said it went well. One month down the line he got called for a 2nd interview with the same company. When he visited this time, he came to see me but I noticed that he wasn’t that keen about the interview even though he showed up. It was as though he was up to something else but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. Another month went by and he told me that he didn’t get the job. I don’t know why but I know he was over qualified for that position and they were paying good money, I feel they did offer it to him but he turned it down. Till today he tells me he didn’t get it, but I believe he did. I don’t think the reality had actually hit him, like what would he do if he actually got it? I think he got cold feet and got scared and also leaving the boys with his wife may have not appealed to him in the end. As much as I believe that he really does want a life for himself, I know that it will only start once he feels his boys are old enough to look after themselves. He has told me his wife is very materialistic and has never had to work. He has also told me that he does most of the domestic stuff around the house for the boys (he is a great cook! lol) So at the end of the day he decided to stay put. A few more months went by and my contract came to an end and I came back to London. He was very happy that I was back. We started seeing each other again and we spoke about our future together once again. He just keeps saying he needs more time. This was last year. I know that he doesn’t like me talking about his family but if I don’t ask then how will I know what he’s going through and how far we are from being together. End of last year we had a big argument over the commitment thing again. I told him it has been 5 years since we first met and that I have stood by him through everything, but he just keeps saying that he doesn’t know. Its like he doesn’t want to lose me or the kids. I know there is no love between him and his wife. They are just putting up. But deep down inside I feel like it will only end if she leaves, I don’t think he has the heart to leave her or the boys. I also know that his father left his mother when he was young and married again. His mother passed away a few years ago, he was very close to her. He says that she would understand him without him having to say anything, he says I am the only woman that can understand his silences. He says he has shared the most about himself with me than he has with any other woman ,even his wife When he looks at me and holds my hand I genuinely feel he means it and that he really needs me. At the same time I cant help but feel incomplete when he is not there. Its like I am sharing him with so many other things in his life, he is not completely mine. Being a scorpio I find that very hard. My aunt is a scorpio and is married to my uncle for 30 years he is a virgo and she says patience is the key and at the end you will have a man with a heart of gold. I have been very patient up until now but due to my experience with my ex which was for 9 years and then he left me, I feel like this might happen to me all over again and it scares the hell out of me. Well in February this month (finally I have brought you all up to date) I couldn’t hold back any longer and said I need to know exactly what his plans are and when if ever we will be together. They say the worst thing you can do with a virgo man is push him for commitment. Well I did exactly that. At first he said that he will marry me and we will be together, very soon and that he loved me. Then the next day I got a GOODBYE email saying that it was never right from the start for both of us and that he needs to get on with his life and I should get on with mine? He said I should find someone else and that he wishes me all the happiness and good luck and also never to contact him again? This is the same man that told me he loved me just a day before? He has done this in the past when he gets cold feet. He likes playing hide and seek and mind games. I have always called him my bunny (you can laugh) but he is cute cuddly and sweet and just when u get the best of him he hops off in another direction and leaves u in a trance. When he would disappear like this in the past I would always say to him you’ve put your running shoes back on’ and he would laugh. I replied to his goodbye email and said, why didn’t you save yourself some words and just putrunning shoes’ as your title. I told him that even though we are not married I feel like a wife already, I have seen his everyside and he keeps playing hide and seek with me, like any husband would I told him nothing about him surprises me anymore, I have seen it all, (all the drama that comes with being a virgo man). I then said I just have a few words for you `In your own time bunny’ xx. Its like a repeat cycle with him and it drives me mad, I don’t know why he has to test the boundaries time and time again. It wears me out and I am at the point where I feel I deserve better. This happened on 10th February and since then I have missed him huge amounts and couldn’t resist and phoned him and then hung up, I think he knew it was me even though I withheld my number. I am not going to stalk him or anything – lol’, but I don’t know whether I have lost him for good. He did say in his email, its time to move on. Do you think he is really over me, what’s going on in that head of his? Sorry for the long saga, I hope I haven’t bored you all too much, I would love to hear from you all.

    One last thing that I would like to share with you all. My mother said that whenever you experience pain in your life just remember one thing, `what we want from our heart is good for us, but what we don’t want is even better for us because it comes from gods heart, and he would never want anything bad for us’. Sometimes in life you give yourself to a situation and nothing comes out of it even with the best intentions and you know you could not have done any more. If you still don’t get the desired result then its time to move on. Maybe there is something better waiting around the corner which we can’t see now. It hard to have all the answers sometimes when you want them, letting go allows that answer to come to you quicker. The more you hold on the more you are delaying your destiny. Love needs to be set free, if it is yours it will come back, if it doesn’t it never was.’

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  • Mimi ! x

    Thanks, that is so sweet of you. Our stories sound very similar in terms of the way we came across our partners at work, and it was friendship at first. Thanks for reading my very long post, lol. I really appreciate all the advice. I can say that, when he has done this disappearing act in the past, he has always resurfaced because he says he misses me too much.

    I have always said to him that he can turn off the contact between us but not the feelings and he says he knows that. The only thing that he did different this time was he actually sent a email asking me to move on. He has never done that before which has surprised me. I know virgos are deep thinkers and they don't do things lightly without giving it lots of thought.

    I don't think its something that he just thought of sending to me on the spur of the moment. What hurts is knowing that he may have been thinking about parting ways for some time. I still can't figure how he told me that he loves me just 24 hours before? Anyway, I know when virgos feel they are right, its best to leave them alone until they come around in their own time.

    Since feb 10th when he sent the email. I have not heard from him. I know its only 2 weeks but it feels like ages. I really miss him. Virgo men are like a comforting blanket. You feel so warm when they are around. When they are gone its like a winter chill. I can only hope that he misses me as much as I miss him. I do get tempted sometimes to contact him, to ask him if he is ok, but then I have to stop myself. I know he needs his space at this time and is probably going over everything in his head.

    I think the argument we had before we split, I could have avoided, but it was the Scorpio in me that needed to know where I stand. I think it was all too much for him and he threw in the towel. Had I not pushed him maybe we would still be together right now.

    I believe with a Virgo man it is a very long waiting game, especially with one that is married multiply that by x100 ! You have to have extreme amount of patience and self belief to keep it going and know that you will get him at the end of the day. Belive me, I have hung in there for 5 years now.

    I am sure that all of us here would agree that when you are in a relationship where you are constantly giving and not getting anything back, eventually it will catch up with you and you will feel like you deserve more. I do believe that in these situations we are all giving too much and should start to think for ourselves. What I mean is, keep the virgo man there but keep your other options open too. This is because in my experience, you never know when that Virgo man will pull that rug from under your feet. When that happens then you'll be thinking, we'll he's gone back to his family, why didn't I think of a plan B for myself. Had I seen other people in his abscences, maybe I would be the one to say its time to move on for us honey.

    I like the idea of keeping the virgo man as a friend (so that the day he is actually free he does come to us). Until then I feel it is important to date other men and progress with new relationships. I never did that throughout my 5 years with him, but I feel I want to do that now.

    I feel the same as you all, that I cannot let go of my virgo man. I don't feel any other man can make me feel the same way. However sometimes in life its important to keep moving on. Standing in the same place for so long is not going to get any of us anywhere. I also feel its important to let the virgo man know that our lives have to keep moving on even though they are in our world. I think this is important so that they know we are not dependent on their coming and goings and we have a life of our own outside of them. If they love you in the true sense, then this will build into respect and admiration for you.

    Since he has left, I have had time to think about all these things. I am praying and hope that he will contact me and we can be friends. I would never want to lose contact with him. He is my soulmate in every sense of the word. At the same time, I also know that no matter how much you want someone back in your life, there are times when circumstances will take over, and the only thing you can do is keep moving forward without looking back. I know I can't keep waiting forever, its very draining. You can have all the love in the world for someone, but if you are not being nurished back with the same love, then you cannot give anything back to the situation.

    Sometimes I feel the things he has to deal with in his life are not as difficult as he makes them. I am a very positive and optimistic person. Being a virgo he will always chose the longest and hardest way of doing things. It is not possible to please every single person in certain situations, something has to give. I have tried telling him that many times but he says no and will always take the long route. No matter how much you love them, they will always have it their way.

    Anyway I hope I haven't bored you all with another chapter of my saga. If I hear from him, I will keep you all posted. I really hope I do. I wish you all the luck with your virgo's.

    Take care

    Sahana xx

  • Sahana I hardly know what to say, so many aspects of your story are similar to my situation. Things that your man has said, his excuses for staying with his wife, the parting and coming back together between you two, the way he shared with me all of his grievances about his family life and in the next breath will tells you to stay out of things, the little things like his materialistic wife and doing everything around the house and for the kids. I’ve heard all the same things. Given the amount of time you have invested in your man it's as if you offer me a crystal ball to see what the future might look like with my Virgo. Frankly, I don't like what I see.

    It was Einstein who came up with this definition of insanity: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, in the same way, and expecting different results. Going round and round with my Virgo feels like that. I love him to death, but it is too hard to keep going through the same old cycles and never getting any different results. It is painful to back away, but depending on what you want for yourself, it may be the only way. I find it just as painful to stay involved with him in anything more than friendship at this point.

    I do think that my Virgo will be sorry one day for what he is giving up because there is something so special between us. (But since I told him I am giving “us” up, at least he can tell himself that it was my doing, not his – you know how much our Virgo men like that – as you say, never wanting to be the bad guy.) He actually went so far as to suggest recently that he thinks the end of his marriage is near, but part of me thinks he said that just to keep me hanging on. I suspect that he has been saying that “the end of my marriage is near” for years, lol.

    Because we have continued to keep in touch I know that he has been doing a lot of soul-searching. Weighing out himself and his marriage. Where will it take him? I have no idea. I know that he would love nothing better than for his wife to end the marriage. Put him out of his misery. He seems to think that she will end it…eventually. He says that if she doesn’t then he will…eventually. It’s unfortunate that he doesn’t just have the guts to end it himself though. Instead he would rather just play the martyr, live in his little emotional hell. He claims his biggest problem is that he’s too compassionate towards others, too afraid of people judging him badly, too afraid of hurting people – and yet he hurts me and he knows this. But you see he thinks I have a very strong personality and he uses that to justify himself I think. And frankly I do have a strong personality, and me putting up with him and his situation does nothing but reinforce that notion for him. My current objective is to demonstrate to him that my personality is so strong that I will in fact do what I need to do to take care of my needs in this life. Continuing with him under the current circumstances is not in line with my objectives in life, I’ve told him this and now it’s my obligation to myself to go forward with that. If he wants to maintain anything more than friendship, he’s got some serious decisions to make and he needs to make them sooner rather than later.

    Like your guy though, when I made a move to end things three weeks ago he came back in full force...for about a couple of weeks. Now he's dropped off the map again. Oh, I'm pretty confident he'll be back, whatever that means. An e-mail, a phone call - not the way I would want him back. I admit that I have bouts where I miss him intensely. Even though we've stayed in touch, I very consciously keep working towards getting him out of my heart and simply maintaining a level of friendship. Is that possible? I'm not sure yet. I may have to end things completely in order to set myself free. But I really love what you said about "the more you hold on the more you are delaying your destiny". Perhaps we delay the destiny of these men as well. I actually am enjoying the idea of my Virgo back in the place he was when we first met. Trapped in his marriage and looking for a way out. I hope he goes off and makes however many more mistakes it's going to take for him to figure himself out. I'll always wish that he'd had the courage to take a stand for himself and his own happiness and for what we could have together, but seriously, he drives me absolutely crazy with his indecision and confusion. Let him drive himself crazy for a change and see how he likes it.

    As I've told him many times, "I love you, but your situation stinks and if I ever give you up it won't be about you, it will be about your situation". But I believe that he will give me up even if it hurts, because I don’t think he’s willing to think about “down the road” because he’s so caught up in the complications of his present. So who knows, maybe some time without me in the picture will force him to look at himself more closely and look at where his life is really going and whether his decisions in the present are really making any positive difference in anyone’s lives. Or is the reality that he is just too darn lazy to do the work it would take to transform his life. Maybe that’s why he’s in a state of soul-searching these past couple of weeks – because I have forced him to face life now without being able to imagine me in his future. What better way to push him (without obviously pushing him or giving him any ultimatums) to simply take a look at his life, and what it has meant to him to have me a part of it. Up until a few weeks ago there was an assumption that we were both open to being more than just friends - indefinitely. Now I have told him, “no”, from here on out it’s not enough for me to live in uncertainty and so, while I will always call you my friend, I am open to finding a deeper, completely fulfilling relationship elsewhere.

    Sahana, I literally read your post start to finish three times. I was so astounded by how identical your situation and feelings are to my experiences of the past year. Imagining that I could go on like that for five years is impossible for me. Most of all I look at who is really getting anything at all out of situations like ours. Virgo guy doesn’t get anything out of it. His children get his presence but not a happy fulfilled parent and so I can’t help but think that they are growing up with an illusion of the man their father really could or should be. Ultimately their wives “win”, but what they win, I am not sure. When a man is so willing to settle for so much less for himself in so many directions, what kind of man is he? You’ve read my posts so you know that I completely understand the feeling of what it’s like to be with your Virgo guy; so secure, so solid, so peaceful… but does that feeling last? Is it enough to get you through a lifetime? No Sahana, it is not. His inability to put a priority on his own happiness is something that pervades all of his actions in life. You saw this when he had the job opportunity in Dubai. The shining new path was laid out before him. The security of a good job, the assurance that he could provide for his children, and that he could enjoy a relationship with a woman he truly loves. Yet he did nothing. Was he immobilized by fear? Responsibility? Insecurity? Who knows and does it matter. The real fact is that whatever the answer is he can’t get past it. You can’t pull him there whether you stand by him for 5 years or a hundred years.

    I totally believe that sometimes the things worth having in life don’t come easily, but they are worth the wait. These guys could turn out to be worth the wait in the end, but we are talking about “relationship” here; about two people and their ability to work together towards a common goal. That is NOT what is happening between you and your Virgo. It is NOT what has been happening between my Virgo and I. Either one of these guys can talk like they’ve got some nebulous long-range plan that includes us, but somehow we are not privy to what that plan really looks like.

    Which reminds me of something very amusing that came up in a recent conversation with my Virgo…he had the audacity to suggest that I didn’t try hard enough. That I should have been more insistent that we get together “no matter what it takes”. All the patience, compassion, love I have shown him, all the accommodations that I have made to his situation and his short-comings that arise from it and yet I didn’t try hard enough? Or maybe it’s that I didn’t try in the right way, or say something in the right way, or what? I don’t even know, and I think in the final analysis that’s because he doesn’t know what he wants. Until someone is very clear about what they want for themselves, meaningful decisions cannot be made.

    Look at it this way; if you are with someone who is happy and optimistic all the time, good chance you will be too. If you are with someone who is negative and critical all the time, good chance you will be too. If you are with someone who is confused and indecisive all the time, good chance you will be too.

    In all of this I offer you no solutions Sahana, but hopefully some food for thought. Do you want to go on dealing with a person who is confused and indecisive and make that your destiny as well? Can you handle it? Based on other posts in this thread there are some women who can. I guess it is all about what you personally can endure in the end.

    Being a Scorpio, you have much in common with my Cancer self. I understand that you can sense the deeper nature of your Virgo man. I think this is why they love us and why it is so hard for them to pull away as well, because so few people can really uncover and appreciate all the things deep inside them, that they work so hard to bury from the world. Such beautiful souls…but I also understand what you need to be happy. While these guys could give us that happiness, the reality is they don’t or they can’t. They don’t give it to anyone and they don’t let themselves have it either. I pity them for that. I told my Virgo that what pains me most in our relationship is witnessing what he puts himself through with all of his confusion and knowing that no one can help him out of that but himself. He will simply punish himself and suffer until he finds it within to say “enough”. What is there to be done with that Sahana? These men who simply let themselves be stuck in life. There’s nothing you can do with that. You can be his friend and expect nothing more, that’s what I’ve decided to do with it.

    I hope you will let me know what happens and how you are doing with all of this. Your story hits so close to home for me I feel like we are inside each other’s minds. I am here for you if you need me. I believe that if you want to get out of this place with him that you can do it, but it is sure to feel like a death for a while. Even though I still have my Virgo in my life, the “dream” of what I thought could grow between us is dead in my mind and my heart is sure to follow. I’m just accepting that if we are going to continue to stay in touch, something new and different will emerge. Or perhaps we’ll just wander down separate paths eventually. Either way, I’ve come too far now to go back to what was happening before, the way it was happening before. I leave room for the unexpected - I'm not saying I couldn't go back with him, but it sure would have to look different from what was going on before.

  • Jenever7,

    I have been reading the posts on this topic, but I haven't posted here before... but somewhere in the 2nd-to-last paragraph in your last post brought tears to my eyes(literally), and I just felt like I had to post.

    I'm a Virgo male, born on Virgo side of Leo/Virgo cusp (Scorpio rising, Capricorn moon) in my early 20s, and I don't know what to say, after reading the stories told here.

    They make me sad, and sometimes hopeless that I too feel(and am told by my friends) that my greatest problem is to care too much about others... but your stories also inspire me to try to overcome my flaws.

    The fact that I only have a handful of friends always made it so that I'm always afraid to throw a friendship away, leading me to back out of arguements(and sometimes apologize) to avoid conflict, even if I still believe I'm right.

    Lately, however(about 4 months ago), after I had argued with my friend, another friend of mine encouraged me to defend my dignity more fiercely. I have started to do that a lot more, both at home, and with my friends, and now I feel a lot more self respect than I did before.

    I also feel somewhat ashamed that guys with characteristics similar to mine cause so much trouble in the hearts of women.

    Perhaps it's because in my life I've always valued partnership a lot, as every time I have liked or loved someone in my life, they did not like me back.

    As a matter of fact, I don't know of any female who has liked me(in the sense of a man-woman relationship) before, or I would surely have paid her more attention, since I believe everyone has their own special shine.

    I have read that a lot of virgo guys tend to stay single. That idea has on various occasions caused me to panic and cry myself to sleep, since day after day I feel lonely, ever since I can remember... I must say I find it hard to believe, that Virgo guys like being alone. Even though I sometimes like to have my own space, there's nothing I want more than find someone who likes me and would not run if I decided to dedicate myself fully to them(And if someone says I don't know what I want... I know that's not true. What I want is what I have just said. And it is, perhaps unfortunately for me, the only thing I want.).

    Anyways I can only hope that I will not become like those guys you have mentioned, and I am grateful that I have come across this topic, because it has opened my eyes for some of the things I should be careful not to do in my life.

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