The heart of a Virgo man



  • Messanger, I feel badly for you having to go through this, you are a few weeks farther ahead than I am in my break up. I ended the relationship just over a week ago and I am really hurting today. I guess as time goes by and I expect to hear from him reality sets in and I realize he's not calling this is the hard part If you have read previous posts by me you know my situation , his lack of contact yet asking me not to leave and telling me he loves me. I really need to look ahead and appreciate my husband who loves me I know. We have had our problems in the past as I'm sure you have.

    Hang in there Messanger maybe we can gain strength from each other.

    Mystral, I love your comment about no more hamster-wheel thinking about hiim-him-him and how

    can you truly love and be loved if you are a prisoner of your own mental habits. Maybe if I let those thoughts go then I can move forward in my relationship with my husband.

    Dttn



  • Dttn, your response made me laugh when I you apologized for pissing me.lol It's your life and I really had no right to get ticked off. I just want the best for you. I'm glad to hear you're doing OK. Are you finding it easier as the days pass?

    Jen, I'm not familiar with numerology. I was just curious if you were a cusper because I've always found that relationships with Scorps have always been easier and more fulfilling for me.



  • Trice...Good to hear from you again. How are things with Scorpio?

    I'm glad I gave you a chuckle with my post. Today was a bad day I have been riddled with anxiety unfortunately. This evening is much better. TIme heals all. I just have to take one day at a time. I'm really trying to connect with my husband but I admit I am finding it somewhat difficult. I guess I need to give myself some time to heal and clear my head.

    Any thoughts from anyone would be welcome

    Dttn



  • Hello all,

    I've just registered as this thread has really pulled me in, and I would love it if you could continue your sagas! I don't really need advice as such, as my situation is (sadly!) no-go, but it chimes with yours, in that I'm a cancer, completely consumed with love for a virgo who can never be mine.

    Without going into too much detail, he is related to me (not by blood), we are both pretty happily married, and have been having an 'emotional' affair for the past 3 years. There has been a spark for much longer..maybe ten years. We have kissed. So I guess not just emotional :). I think maybe 8 INCREDIBLE kisses in 3 years. But we are both on the same page ...not prepared to overthrow two families (both have kids) and all the aftermath for our own needs.

    The situations you've described are so familiar in lots of ways...the interactions between us which are in turn loving, gentle and meltingly sensual, and then at other times, confusingly, cold as ice. We see a lot of eachother (rarely alone though) but never set up chances to be alone together - I think we both know that would be asking for trouble. Each time we've kissed has been a chance encounter, although there have been other times where we've found ourselves alone and done nothing. I'll admit I'm always up for it - he always calls the shots when it comes to physical contact!

    As we aren't at liberty to discuss how we feel about eachother, I do find him confusing, and yet at the same time I sense strongly that when we connect, he is sincere and I feel the same peace in my heart that Jen has described - a sense of finally being where I'm meant to be, of having found what life has intended for me. Its heartbreaking, and yet there is nothing to be done. As he put it..' we just have to go on'.

    Your stories have helped me in understanding virgo's heart. I'd like to believe he is sincere, that it isn't just a lovely little ego trip built purely on desire, but that the connection is real and pure but sadly in the wrong time and place. He has said little to make me believe otherwise 🙂 so maybe I'm being naive but I've always felt complete trust for him and don't believe he is a natural 'strayer'....though all the straying virgos in the posts have got me wondering....! In a sense, none of it matters for me..I will just have to go on.

    Thankyou all for sharing... its wonderful to read supportive, intelligent posts about situations that could end in moral slanging matches. Ally



  • allycat - I loved reading your post, thank you. I'll have to post an update on where things are at between my Virgo and I. Which isn't anything dramatic actually, just sort of plugging along as usual. You've read the thread - you know I'm also in a situation that doesn't appear to be changing in any hurry. Yet we persevere. This has, indeed proven to be a very enlightening thread for me, with all kinds of responses that I didn't really aniticipate. ALL incredible food for thought though, and it's so great that people like you are willing to share your experiences and insights.



  • Thanks Jen. I can't tell you how weird it feels to write about this as though I'm talking about gardening or work. Just to be able to say 'I love this man' feels incredible..it has felt like my dirty little secret for so long.

    When we are together it never feels wrong, and I've felt more guilty about not feeling guilty than about what has happened between us! I guess sometimes the heart feels what the heart feels, and we are hard-wired to respond to those feelings - will-power is ill-equipped to fight them, which is part of the reason I've enjoyed your story...will she or won't she? I don't think you really have any choice - unless something happens, you'll hang in there.

    I'd be floating on air if I thought there was a chance my virgo man could be mine in 4 years!!!!!



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  • Hey alleycat, how are things with you? I'm so glad you registered so that you could get some things off of your chest. I have found this to be very helpful in helping me deal with some of the things i have been going through the last few weeks. Jen inspired me to post on here as well and i thank her for starting this thread. These virgo men certainly are a strange breed living in their own world. Can I ask , how is your relationship with your husband. I ask because I am trying to work through that right now, trying to recapture some feelings I once had before this Virgo walked into my life and messed with my heart and told me he loved me. He has made quite a lasting impression and I 'm finding it very difficult to shake him. He is an unusual person ,not quite like anyone I have met before. On our most recent upheaval his wife found some text messages on his phone from me and I heard from him once 2 weeks ago and that was it. I'm trying to move on but it is so hard to get my head around some of the things he has said to me. Hang in there Alleycat you're not the only one bitten by the virgo.

    dttn



  • Thanks dttn. You're right, they really are strange...! The jekyll and hyde thing is something I'd really like to understand...I know all about moody - but why two weeks without contact?? To me, that would be about trying to emotionally punish you, but it seems for virgo its something quite different. I don't know what though. Maybe he is trying to punish you for being party to his moral downfall..who knows? There was a (VERY disconcerting!) post some time ago from a virgo male who described emotional manipulation, ego-tripping and game-playing. I very much hope that isn't it...it seems like a level of cruelty I just can't imagine..but any other explanation is difficult to come by xx. I often deal with my virgo being very physically affectionate to his wife right in front of me...obvioulsy he has every right to do this, and I'm glad (kind of :)) that he is showing her loyalty..but I can't help thinking 'why???'...what are his motives for that?? haven't had the 'L' word to deal with but my virgo has said things that I still can't get my head around either... it makes my head spin...did he mean that? Was it just a flippant comment at the time?? Or is he just reeling me in??? Or in fact am I completely over-analysing the whole thing and is he just a nice man caught up in a complicated situation from which it is hard to untangle, despite knowing that's the only thing to do??!

    My relationship with my (scorpio) husband is pretty good..despite all this, and TG. If it wasn't so good, I don't know where I'd be. We understand each other pretty well, it can be a bit more volatile than I would like at times (I think its virgo's calmness partly that attracts me), he still makes me laugh. I do understand that there can be no comparison..how can a 15 year relationship compare with that unremitting desire..?? And in a sense our marriage has proved its worth by lasting this long, and we are close friends. I try to see the value in that companionship rather than looking for the firey desire we had early in our relationship.

    Don't ask me how can I can treat someone I love like this..I've asked myself over and over and the only answer I can come up with is that we must be somehow biologically programmed to respond to a connection like the one I have with virgo. Fighting it feels more wrong than succumbing...and for some reason I'm more inclined to listen to my heart than my head!!



  • Hey Ally, My Virgo outright asked me to quit listening to my head and listen to my heart, lol, so don't feel confused - perhaps that is just what yours is hoping you'll do.

    I had a falling out with mine two days ago. I like your Dr. Jekyll - Mr. Hyde comparison. I sent an e-mail expressing what I needed to make things "happier" between us and he blew like Mt. Vesuvius. Hmm...perhaps a few anger issues here I should be paying attention to? There was more to it than that, I did go off on a bit of a rant about things in general, trying to pin him down on where things really stood for him because I have found him to be very unavailable lately. Just wondering if we were moving in different directions at this point. Granted, my presentation may have been a little bit too much to the point in some areas, but I do think I balanced it with many loving thoughts as well.

    But he didn't see any love in it, lol. Completely honed in on the negatives and boy was he mad. Since there is really no such thing as "anger" - only hurt (think about when you are angry, aren't you really just hurt?) Well it appears that I have hurt him deeply. But you know what - right now I don't care. I'll probably care plenty if it ends things, but then again, I'm not going to walk on eggshells to make things work or pretend to be someone I'm not just to accomodate his delicate, insecure ego (and it IS both), but he is a grown man and I believe he should be able to deal with me maturely. Not exactly how things are going btw, lol.

    What amazed me though, is that his reaction to my expressing myself is that I am "manipulating him". That I am like a spoiled brat who says whatever they need to, to get what I want. Then the icing on the cake was the accusation that I play games with him because I know that I can, because I know that I won't lose him. Good grief!! I NEVER have the confidence in what goes on between us to make an assumption that he's sticking with me no matter how I treat him or that he really had plans to stick around that long himself. When I asked him to explain that statement, he said you know I'm not going anywhere so you just say whatever you want to get what you want. Ooooookaaaaay. Mind you I rarely talk to him in general and haven't seen him in at least four weeks, lol. What the heck, maybe I am manipulating, I get so little as it is! Anyway, HE finally decided that he was done discussing anything and that HE needed time to cool off, and that HE will get back with me. That was three days ago and I fully expect it could be weeks before he decides to talk to me again. Now who's the manipulator or the spoiled brat attempting to get what they want? Oy, I feel like I'm sixteen again, lol.

    Anyway, it does remind me of the post as well, about the manipulation and game-playing. It is very hard for me not to see his accusations of me as the very things that he is capable of doing himself, and in fact, may very well be attempting to project on me as well. He knows what he is doing to me in our relationship is very much manipulating me/our situation to meet his needs, not mine, so going to try to make me think I'm just as bad? It ain't working.

    So what happens next? Who knows, I suppose when he's decided he's got himself under control or his next plan of action contrived he will return. Honestly though, what he doesn't seem to get is that I am a Cancer and if he truly cares about me, he's playing a dangerous game. If he dilly-dallies long enough with his little power struggle here and forces me to start extricating my heart from the matter, he will NOT get it back. Oh sure, I'll hurt over it, and it doesn't mean I won't be his friend, but every day that he chooses to avoid bringing resolution to the situation, is one more day I will be forced to bring it to myself. He is apparently confusing the fact that I love him with the idea that it means my love is unconditional as far as putting up with his bad attitude. A fatal misconception. I will love him forever, just like I love a couple of other men who have come and gone in my life, and yet with whom I remain on friendly (but never again intimate) terms. It amazes me Ally that you can stomach seeing your guy with his wife like that. Very un-Cancer-like of you. If I ever saw that one time with my Virgo, it would totally kill what's in my heart for him on the spot and forever. Hmmm...might be just the thing to pull me out of the emotional quagmire this relationship causes me. Ha!



  • Wow, Jen. What a horrible,uncomfortable situation. What are you asking him to do? Do you want him to leave his wife earlier to be with you? Or just to clarify what he wants from you? It sounds as though he thinks he is very clear with what he needs/wants/plans, and he can't understand why you persist in challenging him. He thinks he has laid it out for you - and don't forget his primary motive in staying in his situation is for his children - he honestly seems to think this is the best situation for him (although personally I would doubt that if his relationship with his wife is how he describes...but that is for him to decide) but he can't handle you pushing him because he thinks the two of you have a kind of status quo that works for him (Do virgos have a problem with empathy??).

    I suspect you will push him away if you try hard enough. And ultimatums really don't sound like a good idea - he sounds like he is not open to considering any other choices right now. And he thinks you're on board with that. I don't envy your situation at all. Don't forget he thinks he's right and probably genuinely can't understand why you are trying to change things, why you don't trust him, why you want more when he has been clear about what he can give. Oh, the torture. I really really feel for you. Maybe you should only ask what you know he can give: to phone once a day and tell you he is thinking of you/love you/misses you...? On the other hand...that just keeps you in your box and 4 years of that could kill someone.

    Seeing my guy with his wife..I die inside. It really is awful. I don't do it to him..it would feel like ourtright cruelty. But don't forget these are family events..perhaps he is just trying to behave 'normally' in front of everyone, or to reassure his wife, in case she ever had an inkling of something between us, or even my husband. I really dont' know..it seems wrong to ask, as she is his wife after all, and the bottom line is he chose her.. sob! Or at least the situation she represents. I don't want any more from him as things stand as even the odd look, or smile, or touching fingers (I KNOW....wrong wrong wrong..) keeps me locked up and wanting wanting wanting him. I'm starting to see the 'controlling' thing people have spoken of..... there is no doubt virgo lays down the ground rules. Can you accept that??



  • OH, and another thing I thought of reading your post... while I say I'm in love with Mr Virgo, and that's certainly how it feels, I also understand much of that is burning desire, and I love what I know about him. We haven't had much in the way of intimate discussion and I have to believe that I can take the things he says at face value. I also believe the more I know the more I'll love. When you know someone intimately, you know how they'll react, and what their triggers are, and how far you can push them in certain directions. I know often when my husband blows I think 'damn, why did I do that..' as I could have prevented it. And he knows how to console me, and what I need to hear if I'm in a downer, or when to just give me space. This isn't about loving someone more, but about knowing them..time together. Maybe you just pushed your guy's buttons too far?? He may not have anger isses at all, but it sounds like you came in hard, perhaps in exactly the wrong direction, with exactly the wrong amount of force at exactly the wrong time....???????????



  • Ally - I'm totally cracking up here, I DO believe you have nailed the situation on all points.But I think the real question is your last one asking, "can you accept that?" I'm feeling like deep down here I really can not - not unless he meets me in the middle on the communications thing. I can generally live with much of the rest of it, because it suits my lifestyle as it stands - but feeling like he deals with me when he wants, well, it' feels wrong and disrespectful. Mind you I am not married and held hostage to any kind of limitations. Even if I were, it doesn't mean I could'nt find the time to let someone know that I'm at least thinking about them.

    I think that the single vs. married situation is a huge difference in where you and I come from. "Yes" I think that every single thing you've said is completely accurate as far as the "demand" I have made on him, but you see, it only holds up if I decide that this is going to be enough for me. But my reality is that it doesn't have to be enough for me, I'm not sitting in my own marriage and forced to exercise any kind of restraint in dealing with someone - unless he's married, lol. Obviously I am moving to a place where this is probably not going to work for me or I wouldn't keep pushing for more. "No" I do not expect him to leave his wife for me, but I expect him to respect that I am a part of his life. Ally, I ask very little of him, I understand his position and situation, if basic considerations have no place in all of this, well, I simply have a difficult decision to make I think.

    REALLY love your input, you are so insightful! Thanks Ally!



  • Jenever7, I am so...happy for u! Finally! U are thinking now with more of your head, because in the end result, the head is only thinking on behalf of the good for the heart! I can see u are finally seeing things more clearly...without the rose colored glasses on, that this virgo man doesn't have your best interests at heart. When it comes down to it, communication is a major factor and u'r seeing this virgo man is unable to deal with things calmly. Aggression means he is defensive=which means your figuring him out for his true colors, and he doesn't like that so....he is projecting the problems back around onto you, so that HE doesn't have to step up and tell you the truth, and/or he realizes u'r actually a smart cookie, not like his wife who probably doesn't even know there is a problem with her husband because of his lack of communicating with HER and all the head games he has to do to her, for her not to figure out his real game. I feel bad for her, as she doesn't even really know her husband even though she has been married for years. Sad. Don't u dare let him make u feel like your the problem, as I have found that because of the Virgo perfectionistic belief in themselves, THEY don't know how to APOLOGISE for their behavior, or for hurting you. They really don't know how to "empathize". And, if he was so defensive, you obviously were right, he just didn't want to have to apologize to you, afterall...that would have been a better technique than to have become defensive with you. If he was smart enough, his apology would have made it all better between you...so hopefully you can see how he would act with you, if you were in a relationship with him, and yet your not and you really are only asking of him to treat you like he would a friend and yet this is how he behaves. WOW! How mature! Move on hun, I KNOW you deserve the best, and u better believe that, otherwise u will only attract another obstacle like this virgo man on u'r way to happiness!



  • Just a quick response to Allycat; Hun, u are still in "honeymoon stage" with u'r virgo man, cause u'r willing to put up with alot of c**p from him. The red flags are waving right in front of u'r very blinded eyes, and u CHOOSE to ignore them altogether, which is sad. This indeed tells me how needy u are, whether for love or affection, or attention (to feel alive again). For him to blatantly show his wife affection right in front of u....NO, that was downright MEAN. I remember I was at a xmas party once and my virgo man was there with the wife, well anytime SHE would make any affectionate gestures towards him, he would stand up, leave the table, whatever, but NEVER did he allow me to see/feel hurt. He was trying to protect me from that, and I could see that. But no matter what his good intentions were, I was already hurting because it wasn't me sitting next to him, socializing, not being able to share a dance together, being introduced as his wife etc. and that was painful enough for me to deal with. Personally, I feel if I were u, I would befriend his wife, make her my focus so that I could gain some insight into her husband, like what he tells her, compared to what he says to you, see if she knows he has a problem with being faithful etc. then u will know how to better deal with him. Woman will always be happy to open up about their problems with their spouse, heck, look at us in here chatting it up...Like countries at war, who send in the spies to learn about their enemy, u must do too, be the spy, and learn about u'r virgo man, this will better equipe u for what lay in the future for you and him. Good luck Ally.



  • Messanger..thankyou, you are absolutely right. And you are right about Jen too....if he owes her nothing else, he owes her open communication and full consideration. I guess if there is any doubt over your self-respect, then there is a problem. Thankyou for being non-judgemental.



  • Well, just a quick update here...without writing a novel, it seems that some of the reason for my Virgo's "distance" lately is the state of his relationship with his wife. He's a man who can't take much more from what I'm gathering. It would seem that some of what I was "catching" was his general defensiveness towards everybody in his world right now. Things are to the point that he's actually talked of simply moving out of state, leaving his wife and his kids behind and starting over. His own father did this, so as immature and irresponsible as that may seem, it is apparently a realistic option to him. Note to parents: THIS is precisely why one must be careful about what lessons we teach our children about how to deal with adversity - the lessons go deep and are long-lasting. I warned him that if he just walks away his kids WILL resent him and will not forgive him any more than he ever forgave his own father. (Clearly he has not forgiven and the pain of it runs deep.)

    Anyway, after our little blow-up, once we got talking again, he unloaded about his desire to leave his wife and all the misery she brings him and that he seriously "can't take much more". I know that there are many of you that would say, "he's lying", but I saw him last night for the first time in nearly two months, and frankly he doesn't even look well at this point. I'm actually worried about him.

    Plus the way things went last night - he asked if he could come over and I said "no" because my kids are here for the week. An hour later he called and wanted to know if they were in bed yet. I said "yes" and he said "good because I'm coming over, I've got to see you". He was already practically to my house when he called - that's how determined he was to see me. I never said a word about it, didn't give him any trouble, I just sensed that whatever was fueling this completely unexpected and new behavior on his part had to be something serious. He never would have contemplated taking the chance that my kids might "see" him before now. Something in him has taken a major shift here. I'm not saying it's about me either, or us, or anything to do with the future of our relationship. What I had on my hands was a man, who for whatever reason, was in such a troubled state that he needed comfort right now and that's all that mattered to him. I guess I might even use the word "desperate" here. In spite of all the challenges I've given him lately, he clearly still trusted me to give him that comfort, and I left it at that.

    Whatever is happening with him right now though, is his personal journey that only he can work through. But what I sensed last night was that here was a man who just needed a hug and a little while to get his mind off life. Very sad for me to see him like this, and my prayer is that somehow he and his wife can work out some kind of solution that will allow them both to move in a new direction that will lead to some real happiness. That would also give their children a chance to get to know them as happy people as well - instead of waiting until they are grown and the relationship patterns of their parents are set as their "norm" as well. I can easily imagine the tension and negativity that pervades their home, whether they think their kids are aware of it or not - I know from my own experience that kids don't miss anything, they know when their parents aren't happy.

    Will be interesting to see where things go from here. I'm as detached as I've ever been, just kind of keeping to myself now and if he wants to connect great. Although I love him very much, I feel like I need to steer to the sidelines for this phase. He said he was seriously thinking of calling a lawyer soon, talk about what it would take to divorce his wife, worried about how he would pay alimony and support, worried about how the kids would take it, generally worrying about everything and making himself even more unhappy by doing all that worrying. I simply told him I'm here for him. As I say, my concern is that he's going to do something that he'll regret later, and at the very minimum, I'm concerned that he's fringing on some serious depression here. If I can help him to settle down on either issue, not be rash, well, I'm glad about that.

    As far as whatever issues I have with him, I told him my "dramas" can wait - we'll talk about it some other time when it's the right time. For right now, and no matter how he's "neglected" me the past couple of months, I'm just going with the saying that, "sometimes a person needs a friend most, when they deserve one the least".



  • Jenever7, I don't want to come across as judgemental, and I'm not, I just want u to be happy. U seem to have mentioned that u'r virgo man seemed "desperate", well I agree with that.

    -He is...desperate to keep what he has going with u, as u mentioned the power struggle u had in u'r last conversation with him ended badly and u didn't even know when he would call the next time.

    -He is...desperate to keep the control of all relationships in his hands, it keeps the game going, no matter if he is really trying to make it a game.

    -He is...desperate cause u made him worry that it was possibly over between the two of u, and he isn't ready for that. He still is needy, and u r the fix at the moment. He wouldn't want to have to start all over with someone else at this point. That would take alot of work.

    I think personally u need to step completely out of the picture. If he has issues to deal with within his marriage, he needs to stop looking for another woman to comfort him and step up and deal with them. As he is noticing that things are only intensifying at the home front because he thinks they will somehow disappear as if by magic one day, and of course they won't until he makes definite decisions here.

    U r actually another "stress" he has to deal with at this time. Although u want to believe u'r just there as a "friend", come on, we know u would accept anything from the man u love at any given point, that is u'r weakness. Been there myself.

    I feel he might have genuine feelings for u, but he still is dealing with the present (his wife, his children, his marriage, his life), and is incapable of a future. Until he defines clearly from within himself what that future is, and takes definite steps towards that future, (whether with u or alone) he will always be in limbo between the two lives he wants and continues to lead.

    Again, u have allowed him to turn all the attention back onto himself. Red Flags: (low self esteem issues, insecurities, needing his ego boost for the week, month, whatever.) and u once again pulled through on those points, just like u always do. At what cost to u: having to put on hold the issues, or so u negatively put it "drama" u have with him. Why u would tag u'r concerns as a negative remark, when they r legitimate concerns, frightens me. U don't have any obligation to prove to him anything, u have already invested too much time and energy into this toxic relationship. He really just bought himself some time. As slow as we know Virgo to be when dealing with things in a relationship, he just manipulated things again to suit what he needs, and this time. Just give him that...give him all the time in the world by stepping away from this toxic relationship. Let him find a good therapist to console him. U don't need to invest anymore emotions into this man...u have already proven u'r worth. When he is ready, able and willing to invest anything real into your relationship with him, and it may take awhile, then maybe it will work out without interuption. However, don't let u'rself be caught in the role of the therapist/counsilor, once there, u won't be able to think clearly for u'r needs and desires, it will be all about his, just want he loves and needs. U have enough on u'r everyday plate of life to deal with...u don't need to add to it with his problems. If he loves u he will return for u once he has finished cleaning out his closet. U have to stop him from controlling u'r relationship (whatever relationship that my be).

    We always seem to want to help people by being there for them, but then we end up feeling empty ourselves when these people have spunged every last bit of positive, encouraging, and loving energy from us. If we are not replenished, we can head for disaster ourselves, like depression. Don't listen to his problems anymore, don't let u'r relationship with him be built around HIS LIFE. Make it about building u'r friendship, (anything but his problems or u'r problems), make it about just enjoying u'r time together, talk about positive things in u'r life. Anything but the issues u'r both dealing with in u'r lives. When the two of u come together as a couple, then add this to the relationship, but then it will be about U and HIM, and not any other toxic relationship either one is struggling with at this time. Don't become the therapist, become the friend. And I know that sounds weird, but men don't look at woman friendship's the same as woman look at friendship's. That's why most men and woman end up in bed. U can't be both believe it or not to a man, to a woman, yes, but not to a man.

    Here's some advice from a therapist that I thought u may like:

    Here's what you do:

    Instead of trying to be understanding of him, and expressing that understanding and trying to keep things "smooth" and conflict-free - know this: Depression is almost ALWAYS about ANGER. Your man is most likely very ANGRY, and he doesn't know what to do about it.

    This means that instead of trying to keep things smooth, and not being able to because when he's not withdrawing and trying to stay away from you his anger jumps out anyway, you want to get as

    strong as you can inside YOURSELF. You need to get strong inside yourself in order to actually be able to HEAR his real, true ANGER, instead of working to just withstand the small explosions and "acting out" he does when he's struggling to express himself. Only thing is - you can't just out and out ask him "How do you feel?" Because he won't tell you. Likely - he doesn't even know. And likely, too, he doesn't really want to spew his anger all over you - so you'll have to go about this in a completely different way.

    I know - all of us women endure the frustrating situation of "He just won't open up and tell me his feelings..." And that's the way it is. And guess what? That's the way you WANT it to be!

    You don't want a man who's always focusing on his own feelings with you. Being in that emotional place more than occasionally makes a man feel like a child. And when he's feeling bad, and depressed, and angry - and you're trying to be "helpful" he feels like even MORE of a child. So - you have to be able to allow him to really express his anger, really get that out in a way that's safe for you, and without you trying to drag it out of him. Sounds impossibly hard, I know. But it isn't. It's just different. A different way to do it than we've been taught. Now that you know you're dealing with a huge wellspring of his anger (and don't forget YOU'RE likely angry, too - so count that as part of the

    mix) and that most likely you've been trying to "help" him by AVOIDING conflict, you can take the

    next steps.

    First - you've been likely moving toward him and leaning toward him in order to help draw him out, and to be understanding. You have to REVERSE this, and STOPPING doing all of those "Overfunctioning" things you're doing.

    Next, you have to learn to feel strong and grounded when he DOES show up (and he will - if you Step Back enough, he'll show up). And if he shows up grumbly and cranky and angry- that's a GOOD THING! - You'll have something to work with!

    In order to feel strong and grounded, you have to focus on YOU. Even though he's miserable - YOU have to be HAPPY!! I know this sounds strange. I mean, how can you be "happy" if your man is all grumbly and mean and withdrawing? Well, you can. You may not feel happy in the "relationship" at this moment, but you can feel happy OUTSIDE of the relationship. I know it feels weird to step away from a man who's unhappy - we just instinctively want to help and feel SO frustrated when he won't let us. But you have to. A man will only feel better when he starts DOING better. That means he has to start feeling more like a MAN - whatever his idea of a man is - and every time you lean in and act "helpful" and "supportive" he feels like less of a man.

    What he wants to do - is to support YOU. What he wants to do is to make YOU happy. He wants to find a way to use his masculinity (which he may feel is going down the tubes) to give YOU what YOU need. And every time you step in and try to help him- you're going completely AGAINST what it is he wants!

    So - on to the next steps. Being inviting helps by teaching you how to be warm and open and LISTENING in a new way in the exact moment when he shows up. This specific scenario of learning is to shift your energy so that your man comes to YOU...not the other way around.

    Learning to master this shift can help you no matter where you're at in your relationship...committed, not committed, dating, married, in therapy. It doesn't matter. You'll feel the change immediately. For now, just try standing there when he shows up.

    Don't pepper him with questions, don't ask him how he "feels," just turn toward him, give him

    your complete attention, Leanback and Listen.

    What's really, really important is that YOU have something ELSE - something besides HIM -going on. That means you have to have an IMPORTANT, fascinating (to you), and GREAT FEELING (to you) thing you're doing. It could be dancing, or writing in your journal, or meditating, or sewing, or even focusing your attention on doing the dishes in a very PRESENT way- where all you're doing is EXPERIENCING washing the dishes. It can be anything that gets you deeply involved so that you're not thinking so much, not being in your mind listening to those voices we all have yelling in our heads and flooding us with information, questions, and bad advice. It can be anything that gets you deeply involved with your BODY and your Heart, so that you just naturally feel more relaxed. So you just naturally feel GOOD.

    So how will all this work with your miserable man? The moment he FEELS (and men really can pick up on this) that he's NO LONGER the CENTER of your world, he'll poke his head out of his cave. The moment he experiences you actually being HAPPY (instead of what he usually experiences, which is you being unhappy - where he feels totally responsible and guilty), he'll RELAX. He'll all of a sudden start coming TOWARD you. Now, as soon as he does, if you can do this and just Be there, he'll start to open up. He will. He'll say something that will give you the opening to ALLOW him to express his feelings - and yes, his anger. At this point, you're probably used to jumping in and defending against his anger, trying to avoid the conflict, or trying to keep things together so you can feel safer. And what you need to do is LET HIM GET IT OUT -but without attacking YOU. Yes, this is tricky and it requires some new skills. This kind of conversation teaches you how to feel POWERFUL - where, before, you might have felt weak and at his mercy.

    This requires standing up to him, while still INVITING him to express himself. I promise you, if you can do this - and it's not that hard, it just takes some new skills and guidance in using them, you'll turn things around for yourself almost overnight. It might take a long time for your man to get

    himself together, no matter what, he'll do these things FASTER - he won't be RESISTING doing them as much. And during the time where he's not yet doing what he needs to do to help himself - your RELATIONSHIP will improve dramatically.

    Now of course that was information given to single woman dealing with single men, but I felt it could be used to u'r benefit in this situation of yours. Food for thought.

    I still feel however in order to even have any kind of relationship with this virgo man of yours, he needs to deal with one relationship before ever thinking about pursuing another. It just becomes to stressful and overwhelming otherwise, for both parties. U also don't want to be the rebound girl, those relationships never last.

    I wish u nothing but love so please choose wisely, so that u will not hurt yourself anymore.

    Here are a few websites I also thought would be helpful, one is an ebook u can order.

    http://www.HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com/ToxicMen

    http://www.HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com/eBook

    http://www.HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com/Toolkit

    http://www.HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com/Support/WhiteList/ (weekly news letter u could receive)



  • All good advice!!!



  • This is one of the longest discussions on one topic I have ever seen on this site.


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