The heart of a Virgo man
NOW you are in the right place Dttn! The ball was always in your court, it's just sometimes hard to realize it when you're emotional. How we respond to anything in life is always, ultimately, in our control - yes, even in the most trying of circumstances. This is the life lesson I am engaged in right now, all the way around - a challenge to quit letting things in life control me and get more control over myself, my situations, and how I react.
Okay, so about your guy - so someone read his texts. So what? That IS his problem. If he were so concerned about getting busted he should never have wandered off in the first place.
How was it that you met him? Wasn't it online? I met "R" online as well. I never seduced that man out of his marriage - he lied to me and led me into his life. So there was this one day I texted him, thinking that his wife was at work...uh oh, turns out she wasn't and she saw who the text was from. He made up some story about it being a customer, but somehow he immediately managed to hop on line and IM me that his wife was very upset, crying, wanted to know who "J" was. (All that commotion and yet he had time to IM me? He also seemed very cool about it. When I pointed this out he claimed, "I didn't know what else to do".)
Pfftt! I said, " if your purpose in IM'ing me right now is trying to make ME feel bad because I accidentally upset your wife, you're not. You live in a house of cards with what you are doing anyhow- it's only a matter of time before you mess up and get caught...just make sure she doesn't show up on my doorstep because I'm not going to have sympathy for either one of you for dragging me into your stuff." Not like she isn't suspicious of him anyway, if one text from a woman (who legitimately could have been a customer of his) is enough to send her into a crying jag, well she's got his number anyway, she's just waiting for her suspicions to be confirmed. Oh, but meanwhile I did apologize for calling at a bad time. Hahah. Funnier still was that he came over to see me that night, claimed he was "already in the doghouse so what did it matter - he just took off."
Whatever....again, his status with his wife didn't really concern me whatsoever. In fact he accused me of "enjoying all of this". Wasn't that I enjoyed it, but wtf, it wasn't my situation - he owns whatever disappointment he causes in his marriage - so I remained aloof and probably seemed quite cold about it all. What I WOULD enjoy, however, is he AND his wife actually coming clean all the way around and figuring their stuff out so I can get a little more insight on deciding if I'm stayin or going, lol. But like your guy, "R" didn't seem too concerned really about getting caught - very cool about it. I can't even speculate where that comes from...just some kind of wierd acceptance? Let the chips fall where they will? Is daily life so volatile with his spouse that it's a case of what's one more episode? I dunno, I really don't.
But basically you nailed it when you said your Virgo - HE has stuff he has to deal with. That's my theme with "R" - that I'm not the one who's living lies and deception or bound by constraints HE is, and I don't need him making my life complicated with all of his confusion and indecision.
Now at the risk of sounding harsh ALL of you married people reaching outside of your relationships for happiness have to ask yourself the same questions. ALL of you must take that look in the mirror and ask if you like what you see, and if not, whatchya going to do to change it? I KNOW the questions because I asked them of myself two years ago and came up with my answers. I got divorced.
In everything you've said here you it is apparent that you had no real intention of getting divorced. Neither did Virgo guy. Now really, I think that the two of you could have some very interesting discussions going forward about your marriages. Nix the whole concept that you have anything more, or that you really ever had anything more, going on than a friendship and get to the nitty-gritty of what it is that you get from each other that you don't get in your marriages. Maybe you can find some answers in each other and from THAT find the greater happiness you both seek elsewhere. To me you were both found each other in an emotional fog, it's just that you are more assertive about finding your way out of it and he's still lost in there. I think you can help each other if you continue to communicate, and assuming you both get real about what you're doing together - which is more and more looking like NOT having any kind of serious long-term relationship that ends with you divorced and together. So if you do ultimately decide to communicate with him, just move in a new direction and be friends.
But all in all Dttn, you're getting through this. I tend to agree with Angel that you were brought together for a reason. I believe that about "R" and I as well. I don't enjoy learning lessons this way, none of us do, but I think when you can face the experience as just that - a learning experience - then maybe the results aren't quite as angst-filled, and you can move on a little faster.
If nothing else ever comes from my "realtionship" with "R" at least I can give him credit for causing me to start this thread and bringing all of us together to discuss these things. When "R" and I fall apart one of these days, everything that has transpired here will be a huge part of my perspective in moving on. Or maybe some of what transpires here is actually keeping us together at this time. I have been on the verge of ending things a number of times with "R" since I started the thread and then something posted will give me a new insight, or more patience, or even just the curiousity to stick it out a little longer to see if one of the more negative posts turns out to be true or false.
Sounds silly I guess, but if "R" is serious about a future together (and I will say I can envision being happy with him long term) then maybe this thread is his/our saving Grace, lol. Like you Dttn, I am not one to hold a grudge or be unforgiving about anyone's basic human-ness, but I am pretty ruthless about cutting situations out of my life that don't work and that cause me suffering. The sitatution with "R" would be over by now if not for this thread. Seriously. At the time I posted it I was very much in the last ditch process of evaluating every angle before I dropped the final ax. It was a huge turning point for me and this thread was just one more way to psyche myself for ending it with him. Enough was enough - I figured that I had already given up much to move out of a bad relationship and find real happiness in life and "R" was certainly not looking like ANY kind of picture of what I had in mind. Now we find ourselves both making an effort to keep what we have together but neither one of us can really answer why? Is it love? Is it some other passing need? Does it just keep life interesting? We are learning about ourselves through each other?
I don't know, maybe that is the whole point for me - having come out of a 16 year relationship, maybe I don't have a clue what I want. All I really had a handle on at the time of the divorce was what I DON'T want and that's a very negative space to approach any new relationship from. I guess I'd have to say that "R" is teaching me that if you want goodness in a realtionship then you have to give goodness. That basic "you get what you give in life" which is so simple to say and yet so hard to actually do. If I go into any new reltionship looking for all the negatives, trying to sort those out and see what I have left, then I'll probably never actually even get to the good stuff. Since we're all only human, if I look for negatives I am certain to find them. The lesson is "start with the good stuff" and the bad stuff might not really be so bad after all.
Dang, now see that's the sort of thing that makes me keep this guy around, and actually happy that we did make it this far. He's always good at bringing things down to the most basic level for me. Maybe that's a good tip for you too, Dttn, in recovering the relationship with your husband - ignore the bad stuff and focus on the good stuff - dole out some good yourself and see what you get back.
Hey, if I've been a little blunt in some of this please know that it is because I have the utmost respect for you as a woman who clearly weighs logic in with your emotions. I figure you can handle it. I'd like to think that you wouldn't hesitate in letting me know what you think about anything I have to say as well, and I won't take it personally.
Well, that was a good read Jen. I'm sure if we were to live closer to each other and became friends that we would be very good ones at that. I like you saying whatever you think. I hope i can do the same for you ..lol.
I don't imagine I will be hearing from Mr. Virgo any time too soon if what he told me is the truth then he will be in the dog house for awhile.
Yes i did meet him on line. I'd like to tell you more about that but not on here. I'd love to also share some of the history of my marriage with you but also not here.
I really question if Virgo is telling me the truth. Maybe you can pull a card for me and let me know what the tarot says.
If I have any advice for you Jen it would be to relax in your relationship with "R" . When i was with my Scorpio friend (and we are still friends , but just friends and have been for 5 years) it took me atleast the first year of our relationship to relax. Let things happen and unfold. I realized after a year that he wasn't going to leave me that he was going to call me often and that he really did love me. I had faith in him.
If you want to hear more let me know. I really enjoy chatting with you Jen.
Ditto on your sentiments about friendship Dttn and thank you for your advice on "R". I know why I go through cycles of "anxiousness" about him, and ultimately you, and he, are both correct, I need to just "chill" and appreciate what we have for now - just like any relationship - appreciate the good things and don't dwell on the negatives. I so often create my own "angst" I think.
I have to get ready for work soon, but here's what I'm thinking. I have an e-mail address around here that's like a "spare" for situations where I don't want to give out my main address. If I can't find it I'll make a new one. I'll post that one, you can contact me if you are open to that and from there I'll give you my regular e-mail address. I would enjoy sharing more with you. As I've mentioned, I was with the same man for 16 years, he put me through much (although he still can't see it) we probably have a few similar issues on that front. I am also close to you in age, 49, so we share that as well.
I'll try to get back with you tonight with that address and we'll pull a card or two for Virgo man, see what's up with him. Ttyl!
Jen, that would be fabulous ...looking forward to it.
This post is deleted!
Sorry I've been MIA but I'll be honest, Dttn, you pissed me off by texting him again after we had already gone over this! But as you can see I checked back again because you were on my mind.
I told you the sap-sucker would call again and that wasn't the last time you'll hear from him. You sound better with the situation. Don't you feel in control again? Stick to what you said about not texting. Work on your marriage if that's what you want to do. I'm happy that the depressive state has passed.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that you want think of him from time to time. That's normal..........you had/have deep feelings for this person and it will take time to fully heal.
I haven't heard from that lying-*ss Virgo I dated, since that song he sent me. I've met someone new and he's Scorpio. I'm currently seeing a Scorp (sex buddy) and have been wanting to end the situation but I just love what Scorps bring to the relationship, intensity, emotion, loyal sensitivity and most of all PASSION.
Jen, I know you had a bad experience with your Scorp and so did I, but I just see where I went wrong in my current situation. I should have never allowed him to monopolize my time and in essence, control me. Now that we aren't in a relationship, I call the shots and things flow very well. I've just been through too much with him and its time to move on. This is going to sound soooooo crazy but I've always said it will take another Scorp to take me from this one.............I think he just arrived with is potentially crazy a*s. Love it!!!!!
I am an Aries woman married to a Virgo man 21 years. So much of what I have read about this relationship combination is sooooo true. I am such an Aries and he a real Virgo. Our differences/faults is what makes us chime. As perfect as he seems to think he is - I know he isn't - and thats okay to me - just don't tell him. Would like to see posts from others in this relationship combination. Take care and live in the moment as life is not a dress rehersal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kmb50 - Congratulations on finding 21 years of love and happiness with your Virgo man! It's nice to have someone post evidence that a Virgo man can put his heart into a relationship and keep it there! Thank you for your input. Just hearing about a relationship that is still going strong as long as yours has, puts a smile on my face!
Excellent advice there for everyone as well.
Trice, what can I say...I look at you and all I can think is that you must enjoy playing with fire, lol. I wish you all the best with your new Scorp man. I'm SO done being burned by Scorps though that all I can think is, "better you than me!" Haha
Jen, thanks for the half-hearted best wishes.lol I was just curious, when is your birthday?
I've been dating a man who is a Virgo, and a true Virgo. He is controlling and he is always right. No matter what I say. He thinks he is perfect and wants perfection. He is smart I have to give him that, but the past 9 months have been the most difficult times of my life. He is possessive, jealous, obssessive about everything. I can say the sky is blue and he says it's black. I can say I'm not lying about something and he is sure I am. I'm a Sag, a free spirited.........I feel like sometimes I'm choking, but I love the man to death. I agree that in time they come around when they feel betrayed or are angry. It just takes time. At the same time, there's no grey area with Virgo men. It's all black or White. Not to menion, if something doesn't make sense to them, they will drive you crazy. It's all about logic to them. I can literally say we have broken up within the last nine months a handful and have gotten back together......so time is what really they need to cool their heels. And watch out when they get angry or feel betrayed, they are out for blood. It's not easy dealing with a Virgo man.
Trice, All the best to you with your Scorpio , I have had experience with them. They are amazing lovers but can't seem to be satisfied with life and are always looking for the grass being greener on the other side. They also think they are smarter than anybody and can fool people. Sneaky little Scorpions. But even with all that if they love you they are incredibly loyal.
Sorry I pissed you off with my texts to mr. virgo I must admit I wasn't too happy myself but caved in a moment of weakness. You'll be happy to know I have not heard from him since the morning he called me last Tuesday. But I'm doing okay.
Hey Jen, got your message so am continuing to do some posting here. thx.
Trice - My birthday is 7-7. Total Cancer.
Futurephd - so interesting to hear a little "dark side" Virgo. I understand Virgo perfectionism, but I never have had the experience of Virgo possessiveness or jealousy, probably because my situation is unusual. Kinda hard for a married man to tell me not to see other men isn't it, lol. Although, I will confess, I have at times made a point to tell him that until things are resolved between us, I have no desire to explore other relationships. I just sense that he would be very hurt if I were seeing other men based on a couple little things he's said, although "on the record" he says, "I understand that I have no room to tell you what to do and you should feel free to do whatever makes you happy". As you say Futurephd, all very logical. But my gut tells me that logic would fly out the window if he thought I were seeing someone else, and he probably would end things. Interesting to think about how he resolves any feelings of jealousy or possessiveness about me though, given that there are huge amounts of time that he has no idea what I might be up to.... Does it bother him? I really don't know, lol.
That "vindictiveness" you mention surprises me a little because it's really illogical. One would think that a Virgo would just move on, nice and neat and logically. Why bother with a lost cause? Although I could just as easily see in my case where that might be at the heart of why we even got together...perhaps he's being vindictive towards his wife? Hmmm, very interesting.
Love your comment about things being "black and white". This is how I would expect a Virgo to see the world, but you see, my Virgo likes to throw things into a haze - when it suits his purposes. I can tell when he's doing this, mainly over issues that he really doesn't want to deal with, but because of his general disposition I always feel pretty darn sure there's no "haze or confusion" about much of anything going on with him. Timing maybe; when things are going to happen maybe, but not issues. I always thought it tied in with that "need for space" thing, but okay, there is control in that behavior too. Ahaha! Thanks Futurephd, your post has given me some very intriguing insights to contemplate!
Oh and Trice - why do you ask? Any chance that you do numerology readings? Hmmm? If that's the case, let me know if my birthdate means anything good (birth year is 1960). I've never explored numerology but have always wondered about the 7's. And believe it or not, "no" it is not any kind of lucky number for me. I guess there really isn't any lucky number for me so far as I can tell from experience, lol.
Hi all, just wanted to check in and see how everyone was doing. Nothing really to update regarding my Virgo who I guess is no longer my Virgo so I'll just call him Virgo Man.
He had called me last Tuesday to give what now I feel is some bull**** story about his wife finding text messages on his phone because he just happened to leave his phone at home ...on ...while he went to Chicago overnight from Friday to Saturday. It still doesn't explain why he didn't answer my frantic messages on Thursday when he was home. Lots of things have been going through my mind this past week about him and I can't help but feel that he was afraid of me and what I represented to him. Cheating !! But in his mind maybe he was thinking that in order to not hurt me he would hope that I would just fade away. That way he wouldn't have to tell me he wasn't interested. I just don't understand why you would continue to tell someone you love them when that really wasn't the case. To all you men out there. Don't tell a woman you love her if you don't mean it. Just be honest please!!!! We'll get over you.
This poignant love-story is not about any Virgo man, it's about the Cancer woman,
herself. Relationship is always showing us the self, for better and worse.
Cancer seeks safety. First on the outside (financial security, home, work, marriage) and
later, after the pain of years or lifetimes, she seeks safety where she finds it, in herself.
Her higher self, so long forgotten.
The deep woundedness many of us carry does not qualify us to follow our gut. There
is healing to do and that takes effort, time, energy and a dedication to our own lives.
And getting up again every time we fall ... fall in love, in bliss, in betrayal, in illusion, in abandonment. This is love with need, and without wisdom. But we don't know it till
we do. Pain is the teacher.
There are other teachers.
If one were to ask, I would say please take some of this forum time
to educate yourself psychologically (study of the soul). Books on relationship abound.
I have always loved reading about myself, because this is what they are: about me.
I am becoming an expert on myself. As an intelligent, emotional and complex human being,
it is taking a long time! But I am worth the study, worth the time and energy it takes to
go to meetings (12 Step), do my daily spiritual practice, read literature of inspiration.
That makes me feel even better than soothing forums like this one.
My decision to heal is making me stronger, more self-reliant. My next love has a much
better chance of being someone who is also self-informed (i.e., mature), with integrity, and other qualities that I am building in myself. I was love-addicted for decades. Today I am "drug free." It is not easy, but much easier than what I was doing. I am worth it. I bless the relationships for the lessons they gave.
Today I have no husband or lover, but there are lovely men in my life. For the first time I am capable of choosing, or not. My "gut" and emotions are still powerful, after so many years of running the show, and the desire to be held and touched is alive. It is in my best interests to live my healing decisions daily, otherwise falling into nowhere again. (I had lots of romance, fun, drama, pretend-love in nowhere-land. There had to be a payoff for all that pain ...) But to tell you the truth, I am totally bored with my dead-end pattern in love. Big yawn. Self healing is much more ...fun isn't the word ... it's exciting, it's deeply satisfying, and much much more. It's real. I love waking up in my sun-rise room, in peace and freedom, with nothing to regret, no more hamster-wheel thinking about hiim-him-him. How can I truly love and be loved if I am a prisoner of my mental habits?
I didn't know I was needy (God forbid!!) , but that is what obsessing is: real needs not being met. I was too caught to figure this out for myself. The decision to heal brought me into contact with others just like me, and now that I had become teachable, I learned. I learned what my real needs were and how to take care of them, like an adolescent leaving home for the first time. I caught up on my self-care physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I learned that although attraction is hugely ... attractive.. I could actually choose whether or not to start, stay, or leave a relationship. I could look before leaping, and if I'm not sure about what I'm seeing, I can ask for feedback from my friends before anything starts. I would never in a million years have done this before: I acted in silence and alone. I used "following my heart" and "destiny" and "he's so wonderful" to keep me in. I was in denial about the fact that I had absolutely no power to choose. I was a victim of my generations-deep condition of dependency and co-dependency. It took years before I could sincerely admit this, despite the obvious. I was in denial of the fact that I had not chosen or created a life-purpose that made me love myself.
I did not respect myself enough to let my feelings alone choose a mate wisely. No woman in
her right mind chooses a lover or a mate based on feelings alone. I did not yet have the healthy mind that balances the heart.
Now, the very idea of choosing to be in a relationship, or not, is so amazing it makes me laugh out loud. Healthy women knew this all along and for me it's a whole new world. Is this where the real fun, the real love begins? Yeah!
Thank you all for sharing your hearts and minds, and letting me share mine in progress, not perfection.. I wish you gentle thoughts and acts today -- for you!
Thank you Mystal, what a wonderful journey you are on!! I have contemplated many of the same issues as you in the past year and spent much of my time reading inspirational books by authors such as Eckhart Tolle, Don Miguel Ruiz and Marianne Williamson. If you are not familiar with them, I recommend every one of them. It IS ultimately all about how we respond to what life hands us and our personal decisions to take a negative position or a positive one. To look for the bad or to look for the good. Like you, I am a work in progress and expect that's what I will be for the rest of my life - but the key, as you so eloquently put it with your thoughts - the key is starting the work. Just getting started can be the biggest step of all. Thank you for taking the time for sharing - you brought a smile to my face.
Hi, I'm not sure if u remember my other posting which is way back on page 8. I finally came back to finish off my story about my virgo man.
So, yes he would flirt all day with me, of course until he would put on his family persona when it was time to go home. This man had me thinking about him day and night. I was obsessed with him, but he kept the game going, and maybe I did too because I was completely head over heals for him, he intreged me aswell, however I just thought he would eventually tell me what his motives were for us. Why keep me dangling? I really believe now that it was just an ego boost. when he would feel like s**t (as virgo's are more critical of themselves than others) he would play his head game crap with me. That would be his distraction, and ego boost for the day, week, whatever, until he require my attention again to boost up his ego and confidence. I also now believe virgo's are control freaks, (as even their horoscope states that they are perfectionist,) and I believe this equals controlling everything so that things will be in perfect order to THEIR liking =equalling control.
Think about it, all these men we have discussed, all either own their own businesses or are in management roles that everyone answers to them. Including their wives, and us...I bet their wives are no different than us. They probably love them so..much, like us, that they are just giving them the space they need, thinking things will get better. Only they won't get better, because they play these head games, with all of us! I believe that if we weren't even in their lives anymore, they would find someone else to replace even us with. I too haven't slept with my virgo man, however he always seems to keep me engrossed with him. I too am a confident, intelligent, attractive woman. I never have had problems with men coming onto me...but him, he is the 1st man who actually caught my eye in 20 years. I never even really dating in high school, because I was too damn picky, I never wanted to be 2,3,5,8th whatever # on some guys list of conquests especially when I saw all my friends being used and abused.
I really believe now that he is my test. Why I say test is because my girlfriend at work asked me one day what my ideal man would look like. Crazy as it sounds, the man I did describe definitely did not match my husband! lol Go figure, weird I know. No kidding...within 2 weeks of my stating this ideal man of mine, this virgo man appears from whereever and is now working with my company. He was transferred from another location. That's of course when it all started. I've already gone into detail as to alot that went on, even when he left for the other location, me visiting him and being disappointed regularly. U can't even imagine how many tears I have cried for this one man. Closing myself off in my bedroom on several occasions crying and trying to figure this man out. So one night I decide to pray, and I sayed to God that I didn't want to be the reason for this man to leave his wife and children. Although I loved him, I didn't want to be held responsible by God for his divorce. Within a few days after this prayer, this virgo man was offered a better job at another location. I was crushed, and he didn't even tell me about it, I had to find our through other people talking.
Sorry I have to go, be back.
Ok I'm back.
He even saw me the whole day and yet didn't come up to me to tell me he was leaving. Who knows why, maybe he didn't want it to end. So pretty much he was calling all the shots and then disappointing me. I was so frustrated with him, eventually I took control back. I decided enough was enough, I called him at work and told him I thought it was best to move on and that I felt it was time that I should start having children with my husband. I figured that this would show him that I have needs and that he wasn't ever going to meet them, and that if he was trying to meet them, he was sure taking his sweet a** time.
Well, he turns around and says: "If you want a baby... I'll give you a baby."
What the f**k!! Again I was lost for words...what is he doing to me!! He knows I would have, in a second had a beautiful child with him, but come on. If he isn't going to be there for me...what about our child? No way would I do this. Then, because I didn't respond immediately, cause I was caught off guard...in shock really.
He again turns around and says to me, "Ya well, my wife and I were discussing having another child as well."
I sayed: "What? I thought you only wanted two?"
He answers, but fumbles back and forth with "yes"..."no"... "yes"... "no"..."no".
I realized at that moment, he didn't even know what-he-wanted. He couldn't even be straight with me when answering that important question. I swear he just sayed that though to hurt me, cause maybe deep down I hurt him, and he was jealous, angry and vendictive...if I even hurt him at all. Cause up until now, he always seemed so cool, calm and collective. Acting and responding so indifferent than what I was used to dealing with. I just wanted him to see that I wasn't going to wait around for him to make all the decisions anymore. I'm moving on with what I've already worked towards for 20 years.
Currently, I believe he was trying to manipulate me into staying caught up with him (ego) but once again. As it's always been about him right from the beginning. I also believe that just like he would flip back and forth with "yes and no" answers to my questioning him about children, I truley believe that is what he was doing within his mind over his wife and myself. Not capable of choosing between one of us. One day his choice maybe me, the next day maybe her. Although he seemed to always be slow to make progress in romantic affairs, when it came to business, watch out! He was so dedicated, I believe he was a workaholic...really. Work comes before everything! You will never come between work and a virgo.
Long story short, I haven't seen him for over a month, as I've decided to take my life back. I am starting college for a career in veterinary studies, I play baseball during the week, I socialize with friends and family. I now keep myself so busy...I don't think about him. I was putting my life and happiness on hold for over 3-4 years, I still care about him, but not like I used too. He has forever made a lasting impression into my heart, as he has taught me alot about myself, and others. He was my learning curve, thrown in front of me to help me grow. He also helped me learn as to what I was taking for granted within my own marriage. I once watch a councilor on 100 Huntley St. inform people watching the show, that if a man was truley into you, he would move heaven and earth to be with you. And let me tell you from experience, my husband did exactly that when we first met.
So now why would I want/seek anything different? Maybe I was searching for someone that was standing right in front of me the whole time, but got bored somehow with him, for after 20yrs, what more is there to learn about someone, you pretty much know, inside and out, in every aspect. There are no stories that he hasn't told me, I've either heard them all or have been there with him when they were created. There didn't seem to be any passion left in my marriage. Therefore I was searching elsewhere for it.
I hope my story helps to encourage you in some way, please take your life into your hands. We really don't have much time to dilly dally along with people who aren't genuine. Sometimes these men are roadblocks to what we can be in the long run. A continued loving person to all...not a torn and thrown about person lying weak in the ditch.
it interests me that you seem to focus more on the reasons for him position in your life. would love to hear more about how this relationship is shaping yours?