# The numbers 4 and 8 question

• Hi. My birthday is on the 13th. 1+3=4 The thing is I'm going to be going through a name change and have been trying out different options.

In Chaldean numerology I think that I understand that 4 and 8 are rather negative karmic numbers? So, if my birthday is 13=1+3=4, does, this mean that I should avoid any name with either a 4 or an 8?

What if out of first, middle and last names....only one or two add up to 4, should that be avoided? Or

will the total some dilute the bad affect of the 4?

Thank you for any help in advance. I have nobody else to ask regarding these things. It's so confusing.

• BirdyByTheSea,

You need to look at all your major numbers in your chart as a whole.

While examining them one by one helps us understand ourselves, it is only part of the bigger picture.

Your day of birth tells us what you came to earth with, your talents, lessons, opportunities.

Also, a name change will only change the "daily" energy of your life.

However, the "destiny" cannot be changed, since it was the name you received at birth.

No number is totally "negative" or "positive" they all are special, and can help one achieve their goals.

Beyonce has been in a cycle of 13/4 and look at all that she has accomplished, you will find that many great ideas and successes fall under the number 4.

Yes the 8 is karmic, however, that is the law of the universe. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The 8 can bring one rewards on the material plane, but it cautions us against beings consumed by it, if we do, we suffer the consequences.

If you give me your date of birth and name number you were thinking of changing it to, I can give you some advice on that issue.

Create A Great Day!

Markie

• Hello Markie,

Thank you very much for your reply. Sorry I haven't responded sooner as I've been away

and then needed to try to find the website and my posting again.

I was going to originally just change my first name, but have decided to change the rest of it, too.

Anyway here are the possible combinations:

12=3 (first name 1) + 21=3 (first name 2) creating a double first name...together.... 12+21+33=6

36=9 (middle name)

27=9 (last name)

TOTAL = 96=15=6

On a daily basis middle name isn't normally used so that would add up to TOTAL 60=6 (first names and last name)

Problem also is first name part is Anna combined with my present name to create a double first name because I was supposed to be named after my grandmother originally, but name different after adoption, etc, and people know me by my present name, so was trying to combine them to satisfy people who are accustomed to call me one thing, but retain my orginal identity to my birth family. Also, 12=3 of Anna and 21=3 of present name are not great numbers. Combined they seem more positive. I'd rather just have one first name, but don't know how to fix this and with my birth number 4, I think 3 might not work for me. 6 and 5 are supposed to be positive for the day I was born when applied to my name number.

The other possible combination is:

23=5 (first name) - changed spelling of present name

12=3 (first middle name) Anna

34=7 (second middle name)

27=9 (last name)

TOTAL = 96=15=6

On a daily basis middle name isn't normally used so that would add up to TOTAL 62=8

This is negative for my birth date, 4, so I would need to use an abbreviation of

first name 23=5 (first name) plus 12=3 (A. first initial of Anna) + 27=9 to get 51=6 (last name)

in daily usage.

Other daily usage option is 15=6 (Anna plus fiirst initial of current first name) summed with

last name 27=9 (last name) is 42 = 6

The last option is 23=5 (first current name) adding 27=9 (last name) = 50=5 on a daily basis, but then Anna would just be my middle name : ( It's hard to make everyone happy and do good numerology, too. : (

I'm so frustrated because I'm just trying to work this out in some way and it's so difficult..

My big question is ....Is 50 and 5 or 60 and 6 better for me since my birthday is 13=4???

That could also help me decide........................

Markie, I hope I didn't confuse you. Please let me now if so....It's hard to explain, I guess.

I await your reply and many thanks for your offer of help here because I'm really starting

to stress over getting this write and not coming up with an answer.

• Sorry...meant to say that I'm really starting to stress over getting this right (not write).....

• BirdyByTheSea,

Wow, you definitely are putting a lot of thought into it.

It is good that you are so interested in the craft of Numerology, but I feel you getting stressed out on all of the nuances is causing you more of a headache than needed.

Remember the name change WILL ONLY affect the DAILY energy of your life.

Your birth name is your DESTINY, that cannot be changed. Your DESTINY is the path you must walk.

Whatever you choose to change your name to, you must make sure you are ready to adhere to the energy of that number/vibration.

Letters have power too, we all go through letter cycles, so that is something that must be considered as well.

All in all there is no perfect name, every number has it's benefits and trials.

Every number will force you to grow, and also challenge you.

I have been doing Numerology for nearly 10 years, and I have seen great names and not so great names. And both groups are challenged in their own way.

Since you were born on the 13th, it would make numeric sense to have a name number of 6 rather than 5.

The 4 is closer to the 6, in the sense that they do value their security and home.

The 5 is a restless energy, and is full of surprises, not something that the 4 really likes.

6 will bring relationship issues to the forefront, and 5 will bring the issues of adaptability.

It is for you to decide, but remember the destiny number is the most important.

Even if you change your whole name, that doesn't change your "birth" name.

The change in your name will be ADDED on energy onto your birth name, so you will have to make sure you fulfill both the energy vibrations of your birth name and your known name.

Take into considerations your numerical cycles, both short and long range.

No matter fortunate name, or unfortunate name, you have to be willing to take "action" in order for all dreams, goals, desires to come true.

I always say there is no magic in numbers, the power is always within YOU.

Wishing you prosperity and most of all happiness!

Create A Great Day!

Markie

• Hello Markie,

Thank you so much for your reply. : ) What you said about 6 being better than 5 for me due to my birthdate of 4=13 makes good sense. You know a lot! 10 years...very long time studying this.

I am relatively new to numerology, so what you explained regarding 6 being closer to my 4 energy and nature than 5 is very helpful. I had read something that was written very short and brief that only stated that number 4 should have a name that is 1, 5, 6, or I think it was 9, but it didn't explain why or which one was better. So, you helped me. : )

I do have another question if that's okay. Is it okay to have 12=3 or 21=3 as a first name if your birth number is 4 and your complete name (all names together) will add up to 60 o 6? Would it be better for me to put the two first names together to make (12=3)+ (21=3) = 33=6 as a first name? I ask this because I had read somewhere that 3 is not compatible with 6 and my full name added together will be 6...and not sure how 3 goes with birth number 4, either.

I remember seeing somewhere it was written that your first name is like a mantra that is repeated constantly throughout the day, everyday all through the year, so that makes the vibration of the first name one of the most important of your names. For this reason I ask the above question regarding number 3 and 6 for a first name for me.

I understand that I cannot change my birth vibration, but improving the daily energy if possibly would be fantastic.

I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you again for your help.

Kindest regards......

• I guess I should have asked if regarding the two first names that add up to 3...... Is 12 or 21 better?

• BirdyByTheSea,

If you follow Chaldean Numerology 21 is by far better than 12.

Though they mirror one another, the 12 is considered the "victim" number in Chaldean Numerology.

True the first name matters, as it is how people see you, the energy you give out.

All your numbers don't always have to jive, when you have numbers from different concords, it does help you to grow, and further yourself.

Instead of worrying about the "downside", start thinking of how you can "push" your numbers to the highest possible point of excellence.

Each number has its positive and negative traits, its up to you to live up to either one.

Any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Create A Great Day!

Markie

• Hello Markie,

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't been able to get back onto the website for a couple of weeks. Many thanks for your reply. I wish 12 wasn't the 'victim' number, but I guess I can't change that, so will have to look more at 21 or adding the names to get 33=6. hmmm........

Can I ask you another question, please? For somebone like me that has 13=4 as birth number....is a name total (for daily usage, not including middle name) of 51=6 or 60=6 better?

One more thing. I had read that if your name or day number is 6, then 3 is an enemy number for some reason. So, if my name adds up to 6, I can't have a middle name or other that comes to 3? Is this true from what you know. I know you've been doing numerology for a very long time, so I will go with what you say on it.

Many thanks........

• Hi BirdyByTheSea,

51/6 is one of the most powerful numbers in Numerology, this one would benefit you the most.

This number will attract good fortune, popularity, and romance.

You will hear all types of things people say where this number is an enemy of this one, etc.

That depends on which type of Numerology you believe in.

In my personal numeric opinion, 3 is a buddy to the 6. They are part of the same concord, which is the artistic concord, they are part of the triad of easy money numbers. They are bosom buddies if you will, very good friends, helping one another out when they need help.

Anything else let me know!

Create A Great Day!

Markie Mark

• Hello Markie,

It's been ages since I've been able to come back to the boards. Was wanting to respond sooner. I did want to come back and thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

I note that you say that 3 is a buddy of 6 and not an enemy. Is that only in Pyth. numerology and in Chaldean 3 & 6 are enemies? You know...I was signing on to take expert advice from a numerologist. He says he does Chaldean, Pyth. and Vedic.... When I told him that I wanted to go back to using a name that was suppose to be mine (was adopted)...named after my grandmother...Anna... he told me that he would not accept my case if I were to use Anna... that I would have to use another name.

He says....I'm a Chaldean 13=4 birthday...but a life path 6, and that 3 and 6 are enemies. He said that if I were to use Anna = 13 = 3 that it would cause problems in relationships, so he doesn't want to begin things badly. However as you say...and have also read it somewhere else now...that some believe that 3 and 6 are friends and not enemies... Why so much contradiction. Now, I feel a bit frustrated... I ignore his advice and take on Anna anyway......??? What if you are indeed correct Markie...and 3 and 6 are indeed friends.....?? ...that would be better.

So much contradiction in numerology! Are you using primarily Pythagorean? I'm just trying to understand better..

Thank you so much for all your help Markie......... ; )

• BirdyByTheSea,

I use both Pythagorean and Chaldean methods.

The issue with most numerologists, is that they try to deduce a problem and use both systems, the problem is that most times they will contradict one another.

I use the Chaldean method for the known name, and Pythagorean for the various other calculations.

You will find it difficult to find a Chaldean/Vedic Numerologist which is extremely proficient. The reason being is that there isn't much information on these two methods.

I've been doing this for nearly 10 years, and my clients have been satisfied by my method.

True in Vedic Numerology 3 and 6 are enemies, they can sometimes be neutral.

In Chaldean and Pythagorean they are both friends. They help one another out, as they are both part of the artistic concord 3, 6, and 9.

You'll need to make that determination and choice to decide which is best for you.

You do need to understand that if you have the determination, perseverance, and drive you can make anything happen in your life, regardless if you have a good name or not. True a good name may give an extra boost, but that doesn't guarantee a happy existence.

I always tell my clients that the magic isn't in the numbers, it lays within YOU.

Its the same if you go to 10 different doctors for a cure to an ailment, you'll probably get 10 different answers. So you need to decide which method or way is going to work best for you.

I understand you are trying to pick a good name, because you want to make your daily life as easy as possible, but know that there isn't one number or combination that is "perfect" or without "problems" every number has a positive and negative characteristic to it, its up to you as the individual to activate that positive or negative side.

3 and 6 are lucky numbers, but they can give their fair share of grief as well.

Take a step back, and ask the Universe for help in your decision, I trust you will make the right choice.

I wish you success, and most of all happiness!

Create A Great Day!

Marky

• Hello Markie,

Thank you for your reply. Yes, it's confusing with all the contradictions between different styles of numerology. This person says he works out the Chaldean and Pyth. first before Vedic., but not seeing that.

I didn't know that you take on clients. I should have come to you first! ; ) Do you have a webpage or contact? I know that there may be rules regarding this in the forum...I don't know.

Many thanks again for trying to answer all my questions. I'm still trying to plod on with this as confused as I am. He's worked out some strange numbers for me that inside I am questioning.

My birthday is 13 = 4 with life path 6. Somehow he has worked out that one of my best names should be 72=9 (everyday usage name) and 95=14=5 (full name) that agrees with some calculations of his and doesn't have karmic debt and a heart number which I don't understand. I thought 6 would be better for me. Oh, well.........

Take care..........

• BirdyByTheSea,

Unfortunately, I can't give you any contact information. Admin is quite strict on that.

With a day of birth as 13/4 and a life number of 6, a 95/14/5 name wouldn't really behoove you, in the sense that you're energy is more "rigid." This is evident, as you are taking your time to choose a name, playing with different ideas back and forth in your mind, and sort of inflexible at times.

A 5 name would attract circumstances that are sudden, and hectic. This would contradict your other energies. In a nut shell, it may be a headache, and too much for you to handle.

As far as karmic debt goes, it's up to you, to work with that energy. You already know that your day of birth 13/4 is a karmic debt number, and that's something you were born with, and cannot change. However, the 13 is quite a powerful number as well, many successful people that I know have a karmic debt number 13, and still rise to the top. It's all a matter of your perception, your ability to work with it, and your free will.

Remember your birth name, the name you were given at birth is your "destiny" that cannot be changed, you will have to work with that energy no matter how many times you change your name, that energy stays with you until you leave this earthly plane.

Your daily name energy will have an effect, and if favorable, will somewhat be helpful, but again, it doesn't change the name you were given at birth.

The 72 in itself is yes a favorable number, and the 9 is compatible with your 6 life number. However, remember the 9 does endure "loss" and is an emotional number, due to its constant ups and downs.

Again, there is no "PERFECT" combination. That is because, life is not perfect. However, that's the beauty of it.

You need to decide for yourself what type of name energy you are willing to take on, and work with.

Don't get so hung up on choosing the perfect name, instead you should focus on pushing your current numbers, (Destiny, day of birth, life number, etc. ) to their most highest and favorable points.

I do wish you luck once again, and most of all happiness.

Create A Great Day!

Marky

• Dear Markie,

Thank you for reply. I had no idea that 9 is a number of loss. I always just hear it's humanitarian, etc. I am learning so much from you! You should run a numerology teaching course. Seriously. : )

I see that you say 94/14/5 wouldn't behoove me. Thank you for letting me know. I will very much take your advice with this. Thank you.

Markie....at I had originally started this thread regarding the numbers 4 and 8. Can you tell me if 8 is at least okay as a destiny number. I mean if the Chaldean name number is good and comes to a 6, but then when doing the Pyth. calculations the destiny is 8, is this okay? Some say 8 is bad while others say it can bring material success.

I think I finally found a good name. I would like to check with you. I will be so happy if this combo. is finally THE ONE! hehe.....

Would these numbers be okay?

As an everyday usage and signature name:

day number 13 = 4

life path number = 6

Chaldean total name total = 60=6

Pyth. heart number = 2

Pyth. destiny number= 8

Pyth personality number = 6

and the full name total would be:

day number 13=4

life path= 6, but

Chaldean number name total=123=15=6

Pyth. heart number = 3

Pyth. destiny number = 8

Pyth. personality number = 5

Bless you and thank you for all your help.

Kindest regards...

• PS....I know that 6 is good for me. I don't mind a tad bit of 5 energy in my personality if need being that I already have loads of 6 in my life path and possibly as a full name. I do travel a lot as 5's do already. Example, I've lived in several countries and am still transit! I love 'home';, but do get resltess after 3 years or so. There was once a song I remember..."Home is where I lay my hat'....okay...maybe for me...wherever my heart takes me.

Blessings........

• Hey Birdybythesea!

Ok, so looks like you are narrowing down your combinations, awesome!

So a destiny number 8, is that good you ask? Yes and No.

The number 8 does bring financial success and material comforts but it rewards on GOOD JUDGMENT. So if you always use good judgment and are not greedy, and doing this that would promote duplicity then yes the 8 is compatible with your energies.

The 8 is in the business concord, and if you are in business for yourself, would like to be, are in a managerial position, etc, the 8 will work for you.

Another note the 8 is Karma, so remember, that will be a constant theme throughout your life.

You have the 4 in your day of birth which is compatible with the 8, some say it isn't others say it is. I say it is. The 4 represents fate, the 8 karma. When these two numbers get together they can do wonders if pushed positively, or can bring things crashing down when used negatively.

Negative example is Osama Bin Laden. He was caught and killed. I did a post on him on my site, and he had a whole bunch of 4 and 8 energy. So one could say what ended up happening to him was "Fated" but also "Karmic."

So if you use good judgment in all your dealings both personally and professionally you should do fine with this combination.

Nothing wrong with the 5 energy. Its quite good, the personality number maybe one of the least important of your core numbers. So it doesn't have that much of an effect.

With your current combinations, 2012 will be an interesting year for you. It can go either way, but will test your "adaptability".

To me your current combination seems sound and great, next step is learning to utilize those energies and pushing your numbers to your most highest and favorable promise.

Anything else let me know.

Create A Great Day!

Marky

• Hello Marky,

Thank you so much for your detailed answer. I haven't had the chance to reply earlier as I had been packing up from where I was in the Caribbean and just arrived back in Scotland. Now, in the next couple of days will be doing my name change legally. One last check with you, though..

I had given you the numbers above for 'an everyday usage name' and 'full name' and you went over with the numbers with me and I'm very much thinking I'm going to go with this. My only worry is with the 8 karma..but if I'm well behaved......you know....... ; )

Anyway... I won't bother you with full names..but in comparison... I have 3 other 'everyday usage names' options I'd like to compare to the one that I have above and get your opinion if that's okay on which one is best.... This will be my final go and I'm off to get it done legally.

Marky, your input has been so valuable to me..I can't tell you how much......thank you. You are a gem.

Okay..here are the 4 absolute final choices:

1. As an everyday usage and signature name (that you saw already):

day number 13 = 4

life path number = 6

Chaldean total name total = 60=6

Pyth. heart number = 2

Pyth. destiny number= 8

Pyth personality number = 6

2)day number 13=4

life path number = 6

Chaldean name total = 60=6

Pyth heart number = 6

Pyth destiny number = 6

Pyth personality number = 9

1. day number 13=4

life path number = 6

Chaldean name total = 72=9

Pyth. heart number = 2

Pyth destiny number = 6

Pyth personality number = 4

1. day number 13=4

life path number = 6

Chaldean name total = 45=9

Pyth heart number = 5

Pyth destiny number = 3

Pyth. personality number = 7

Hope to hear from you soon...I'm so ready to take the leap! ; )

• Hi BirdyByTheSea!

Definitely go with the first choice.

Not to worry about the 8. Just remember, what goes around comes around, and you'll be fine.

The other choices while good, may not be inline with what you totally want.

The second choice has too much "6" energy, most of the time too much of that energy will give someone extreme amounts of stress, causing headaches, and sometimes lead to over eating.

Keep with the first choice, it seems it would work the best for you.

Most times a name change won't take effect right away. But if you want it to work faster, sign your chaldean name 60 times on a piece of paper, everyday for 3 months. This will circulate the energy into the Universe.

Create A Great Day!

Marky