What Does Mercury in Perfect Conjunction With Vertex in Sign of Sun Portend?



  • I think the overall pattern in my chart is that of a bowl. If so, discluding Chiron, my Venus is the most clockwise and therefor would be the most emphasized planet in my chart. I find that to be fascinitating because love are very important to me. If this is true, the site I'm looking at says that there is a need for compromise between the energies of the cutting planet and the opposing planet, Neptune in my case. Neptune is in my first and Venus is in my 7th. Could this mean that I may have to compromise between my dreams hopes and wishes for myself and finding the person or staying with the person that I'm meant to be with? I don't mean to bombard you with questions. It's just that I have practiacally no experience with interpeting these sorts of things and you seem to be quite knowledgable.



  • Hmm….well sometimes things are said in the heat of the moment and once it's cooled down it can look different. I can tell you though, that the relationship that has been the most tumultuous in my life has also been the most significant. In the end it was all a matter of timing and we both had to live and grow as individuals in order to come together.

    I’m glad you’re still interested in astrology and I believe it’s always best to start off learning with your own chart. You're pretty thorough in your research.

    I believe a trapeze would include 2 squares, 2 trines and 2 quincuxes, so I don’t see one there. And you’re right; you don’t have any yods either…yay! You only have 1 quincunx between your Sun and Moon.

    The apex of your t-square is a challenge. Your tightest square is a trigger; it is trademark behaviour. The apex planet(s) is pressured by the 2 other planets that it squares which are in opposition to each other. A Virgo mars is disciplined and hard working and even more so in the 10th house. The natural ruler of the 10th is Saturn. When Mars conjuncts Saturn, your Mars would feel inhibited by Saturn and Mars as an apex planet is resistant to change. Mars is how you express your physical energy; it’s about action or aggression. Saturn squaring Venus can create a vulnerability which causes you to hide your feelings from others. When you described how you could be reserved and timid, these are the aspects that jumped out at me and it’s the outlet of your t-square. The 2 base planets in opposition are your Gemini Venus in the 7th and your Sagittarius Neptune in the 1st. This is also a mutable t-square so it might have tendency to avoid problems because it seeks harmony, but the 4 planets are all in angular houses so they are more dynamic. It will add a cardinal quality to them.

    I don’t know if it would be considered a bowl pattern. The planets are usually contained within 180 degrees but yours are contained within 210 degrees. I think a bowl person would feel that something is missing from their life because a certain hemisphere is missing. They would look for people to fill in those voids.



  • I guess I discounted Chiron when determining that it is a bowl. Somehow I feel that the astroids shouldn't play as significant role in your life as planets. Afterall, there is an entire belt of asteroids, and they are constantly colliding, and don't have a definite orbital path, and certainly don't have the mass of or reflective properties of the planets (if I remember my astronomy course from many years ago correctly). On the other hand, I read somewhere that one school of thought is that the reason planetary positions and angles can play such an important role in determining whom you are and whom you become is that the soul is a reflection of the cosmos at the time and place of your birth and is, essentially, a fracral pattern of the way the universe is at large when you come into existence. I have a very scientific mind and am involved in the sciences, so this idea is pleasing to me. There are actually three quincunxs if you include Chiron and the angles (in which case you're right, there is no bowl pattern). I'm not sure how appropriate it is to include angles in pattern analysis, but it seems to me that it is justifiable based upon the idea that angles are exceedingly important and aspects they make with planets are so crucially significant. It is exceedingly difficult to find interpretations of quincunxs, so any insight you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Two of the quincunxs form something similar to a mystic triangle, where the trine is replaced with a sextile. I was wondering whether or not you attribut importance to this pattern and, if you do, am interested in your opinion of the meaning associated with the one's involved in my chart. When Chiron is included and aspects to the node are allowed for, I do also actually see 5 cradles in my chart. I was under the impression that cradle and trapeze are synonymous, but I could very well be mistaken. The cradles include my neptune, pluto, mercury, and Chiron, and then Uranus, Mars/Saturn, and Mercury/Vertex, and Chiron (which is slightly out of position so I'm not sure those 4 count). If you look a little closer you'll see a butterfly pattern with my t-squares including Neptune, Mars, North Node, and Chiron. Maybe this can soften the hardness of those t-squares, or maybe it won't be able to until I follow my enlightened path and let myself shine in public the way I'm supposed to. I'm not sure if this is the case and couldn't find a meaningful interpretation of this pattern on the net. I also noticed that her North Node completes both a grand cross and a kite pattern in my chart. I somehow feel that is very significant and may have a role to play in both of our lifes if she decides to come back to me (I think she will but that may also just be wishful thinking). I think that we can have a could have a happy life together and accomplish practically anything we set our minds to if she would just give in and try to be happy with me. I think that the reason she can't is that my IM is in the sign of her North Node and the fact that I can read her so well and embody the person whom she needs to become for spiritual enlightenment is scary to her. We've always had almost a preternatural connection and both fell for eachother after the very first date, but, although she was emotionally attached and stopped seeing other people, she for some reason has never been able to commit herself to me. I want to thank you again for your assistance and say that has been a pleasure interacting with you on this site.



  • Is it uncommon that none of my aspects are open ended and all connect back to the larger pattern (every planet has at least two aspects)?



  • Oi…you’re right; you do have a bowl because Chiron wouldn’t be included in a pattern. I wasn’t looking at the aspects to angles, but should they be included…I don’t know. I’ve been told they shouldn’t be, but then I know some who do. The nodes and Chiron shouldn’t be though. Configurations are specific to a certain combination of aspects, so even though the visual might appear as that configuration if the aspect is different then the energy is different. I only see 1 possible cradle with Venus, Neptune, Pluto and NN. Interesting, I know 2 people with a cradle and a t-square. I’ve never heard of a cradle being referred to as a trapeze. I have seen trapeze referred to as a Rosetta?? It’s possible that there are 2 different aspects that are named the same, like the quindecile. I know it as a 24 degree aspect but have also seen the name used for a 165 degree aspect.

    FYI, I found this quick reference of the aspects.

    DEGREES, AND DEFINITIONS

    CONJUNCTION 0° Togetherness, activity, cooperation, concentration.

    OPPOSITION 180° Contrary, polarity, separation, attraction.

    SQUARE 90° Obstacles, work, overcoming.

    SESQUARE 135° Excites, efforts, dominating.

    SEMISQUARE 45° Challenge, irritation.

    TRINE 120° Complete cooperation, ease.

    SEXTILE 60° Opportunity, gaining, achieving.

    SEMISEXTILE 30° Fluidity, fruition.

    QUINCUNX 150° Sacrifice, reorganization.

    DECILE 36° Resourcefulness.

    NONAGON 40° Completing, capable, testing.

    QUINTILE 72° Talent, genius, expression.

    TRIDECILE 108° Mental growth, unfoldment.

    BIQUINTILE 144° Creative, talent, complex.

    VIGINTILE 18° Ideation, mental.

    QUINDECILE 24° Unfolding, creative.

    SEPTILE 51° Potential, inevitability.

    SEMI-SEMISQUARE 22.5° Events.

    A unaspected planet has to work double time because it is standing by itself. It’s more unusual to have a planet totally unaspected.

    CC, if I may ask? When you talk about your lady giving in and just being happy with you, have you given in to just being happy with her? Have you surrendered to her? Have you shared how you feel about each other? If I know Cancers (my s/o is a Cancer Sun), I know they aren’t that forthcoming about sharing their feelings first. Is it possible your actions could be misleading and cause her confusion (as I’m sure you’ve read many Cancer threads here)? Btw, I think the characteristics of your bowl are highlighted when you talk about her.



  • Serious? The word v-i-s-u-a-l is being censored??? Or maybe it's my poor grammar that's being censored...haha.



  • I just found a site that says only "planets" should be used in aspect patterns, and that the orbs should be very exact. The reason being that patterns are akin to harmonic vibrations. Each planet harmoniously transfers energy to the planets in a pattern; since angles and nodes can only recieve energy and not pass it along they should not be considered in pattern analysis. I decreased the standard orbs to 50%. Here is that chart:

    The focal point of my chart is obvious. It is the Mars apex of the t-square that you first pointed out to me. It seems interesting to me that some of that pressure may be relieved by the talent associated with the mini trine which has mars also at its apex. Likewise, some of the talent of the mini trine may be focused and apparent in my life due to its connection to the t-square. There is also a "mini" mystic rectangle connected to a wedge connected back to itself through two semisquares. If you allow for an orb of 2.5 degrees for a semisextile, the two patterns are connected together through a semisextile between pluto and the apex planets Mars/Saturn. It seems that all the planets are in some way shape or form harmonically connected to all other planets. What this means I have no idea.

    She knows how I feel. She has known from the beginning. I do have a very strong tendency to hold things back and a strong aversion to sharing my feelings. With her, I knew from the very beginning. I think I fell a little bit in love with her on the very first night we spent together. So, because my previous relationship which was important to me fell apart due to my pattern of behavior being the embodiment of that so typical of cancers, I told her where I stood within a week of us meeting. I told her that I can't envision a casual relationship with you and that I knew I was going to fall for her if we continued to see eachother. She seemed happy about this because she also seemed every bit as enamored with me as I was her. At one point, she told me that I was the man she had been waiting for, and we often expressed our mutual love, but it seemed like our timing was always a little off, and outside forces always seemed to intervene (both described by synastry chart).

    My bowl is highlighed when speaking of her... in what regard? Inspired and dreamy in love sigh, or an intuitive sense of psychic connection to the person I love, or that my love seems opposed by forces out of my control, or something else entirely?

    Since the "arrow head" (not defined anywhere but terminology of my own making) seems to be the most prominent pattern in my chart, could you offer any insights into this pattern. Also, although ostensibly I was inquiring about the "mini" mystic triangle because it appears in my chart, there was a surreptitious reason for my inquiry. The pattern is present in our composite chart shown here:

    any insight on that pattern is likewise greatly appreciated.



  • by arrowhead I mean the mini trine apex conjuncting the t-square apex to form an arrowhead type pattern.



  • What I meant by saying your bowl is highlighted, is that you speak about your connection as though she would be filling a void within you (empty houses) and that her dynamic personality would somehow help solve some of the challenges within you. That is 1 characteristic of a bowl person. It’s a search for someone to fill a void that they perceive is lacking within.

    Scorpio Uranus in the 12th trines Cancer Mercury in the 8th is inventive, creative, passionate, and intuitive. Uranus sextiles Mars/Saturn in the 10th indicates an energetic, creative individual that requires enough freedom to explore their thoughts and goals. Virgo Mars in 10th sextiles Cancer Mercury in 8th, constant learning is important to you and in your field you are almost always thinking ahead of others. So if you look at all these aspects singly and then bring them together then you will see the theme.

    You do have a wedge between Gemini Venus in 7th, Sagittarius Neptune in 1st and Libra Pluto in 11th. A wedge is quite common and doesn’t generate a lot of friction or tension. It is a masculine wedge (air & fire) so it is more active in nature than a feminine wedge (earth & water) would be.

    Actually, I’m not sure what you’re referring to as an "arrow head" pattern. I don’t see a similar pattern in composite.

    Ok, I recorded her birth time before your links got deleted. I haven’t looked at her chart in detail, other than she’s a 22 years old Gemini Sun, Leo Moon and Aquarius AC, her chart ruler Uranus is in Capricorn in the 10th. She has a Capricorn Stellium and a mystic rectangle (Uranus, Mars, Venus and Moon). She has a t-square (Moon, Mars, Sun). Her chart signature is cardinal earth – Capricorn. Her 4th/5th and 10th/11th houses are duplicated signs in Gemini and Sagittarius respectively. Aries (2nd) and Libra (8th) are intercepted signs. Have a look at those and see what you think.



  • there is a mini mystic rectangle in both composite and my chart. The arrowhead is the conjunction of the mini trine and t-square and is a term I made up. I'm going to look into the aspects you've pointed out



  • sorry, mystic triangle - quincunx, square, trine. But my quincunx is not in the right direction to form a trine. Instead it forms - quincunx, square, sextile. I called this a mini mystic triangle analagous to a mini trine



  • I'm guessing that you too are air and water given your moniker on this site.

    looking at her mystic rectangle, I see that it would connect to my Sun, North Node and Jupiter (the ruler of my chart), and loosely to my Uranus, and could channel that energy down into Pisces/Aquarius where I am void of any planets in my chart. This point also connects back to my Jupiter through opposition. My Sun and Moon are connected through Jupiter, so her mystic rectangle, both directly for my Sun and Jupiter, and indirectly for my Moon, can channel my luminaries' and chart ruler's energy down into a place wheren energy is conspicuously lacking.

    My Moon, which is also conjunct my Ascendant and is the focal point of my mini mystic triangle, completes a Grand Cross for her on her Midheaven in Sagittarius. Actually, now that I look at it, both the mini mystic triangle in my chart and the mini mystic triangle in her chart are pointing to opposing points involving her gravity axis and my magnetic axis. The grand cross, along with these two triangles form a very nice symmetric pattern looking something like a star fighter. There is alot of symmetry going on her. The apex of my mini mystic triangle involves my moon and is located at my ascendent, while the apex of her mini mystic triangle is her sun and is located at her IC. Her mini mystic triangle involves her luminaries and her chart ruler, as does mine. It seems that the focus of my energies in this pattern can be projected through my outward personality (Ascendent masculine) and subconscious thoughts and emothions (Moon feminine) to help her in the way she presents herself to the world at large (Midheaven masculine) and the focus of her mini mystic triangle can be projected through both the way she shines (Sun masculine) and who she is deep inside (Imum Coeli feminine) onto the "other " (Descendant feminine) that I am somehow lacking in myself. The harmony here is somehow pleasing to me. The apex of my triangle is feminine conjuncting the masculine side of my angle which touches the masculine side of her angle, while the apex of her triangle is masculine conjuncting the feminine side of her angle which touches the feminine side of my angle. It is also interesting to note that her vertex, within two degrees, is in conjunction with the ruler of my chart in this pattern, and that my North Node is in conjunction to her moon in the same area. I realize that the connection between my Moon and her Moon is not very tight at an orb of eight, but when you throw my Jupiter in there, which is conjunct her Moon, the whole thing blends very nicely. This pattern will likely be difficult to see unless you draw it out like I did. You'll need my Moon, my Jupiter, my Sun, and her Moon, her Sun, her Mars, and her Uranus.

    Another thing that stands out to me is that the focal point of my pattern, the apex of my mini trine and t-square, is in almost exact conjunction with her South Node.

    That is what I saw, but I don't think that it is congruent the direction you were pointing towards. If there is anything you wanted me to notice about her houses or her elements that I failed to, please let me know.



  • Yes, watery influences outweigh anything else in my chart, but my Sun is a singleton air.

    Ok, so my Aquarius Sun has to say something CC and I hope you don’t take offense. Your Gemini is young but she is an individual and needs to be recognized as such. I brought up certain aspects in her chart because she needs to develop her own identity as her own person and not as an extension of you or anyone else. You know the dynamics of this relationship today and I think you would agree that you both have to develop into your own person before you can make it together. I feel that you are placing too many expectations on her and it doesn’t matter how much you think you complete each other, imho it can’t happen without respecting the individual self.

    “….but I don't think that it is congruent the direction you were pointing towards” You knew I was going to stand on my soapbox… 🙂

    Her Gemini Sun, Leo Moon and Aquarius AC won’t bode well to you holding on to her too tightly or to anyone trying to channel or dominate her; she will suffocate and she will rebel. This is also indicative of her Venus/Uranus opposition because this aspect also requires some spontaneity and freedom. The energy of a mystic rectangle can be self-contained if she doesn’t know how to use it. It doesn’t generate a lot of tension or challenges but she can become unbalanced if the energies are thrown off.

    An intercepted sign is inhibited. With an Intercepted Aries in the 2nd she will have difficulty asserting her values or fears taking any action to defend her values. The emotional pressure would build up until she finally explodes. Libra would also be intercepted in the opposite house, her 8th so she can have difficulty achieving equality in a relationship. The 8th also represents shared resources and the support she receives from others.

    Those secondary little “patterns” don’t really mean anything and what you should try to understand are how those planets are interacting by aspect.



  • Which planets and in aspect with reference to my planets or to her other planets?



  • I beg to differ about the mini patterns being insignificant, btw. The mystic triangle is supposed to be a very powerful pattern and having the square go in the other direction to form a mini triangle is no more likely in occurence and probably more directed, considering the sextile is a more effective communicator of energies between planets. The same argument can be, and has been, made for the mini trine.



  • Tell me exactly what aspects create a mystic triangle and what aspects create a mini trine. I have never heard of them before and I am not familiar with Magi astrology. Please explain how these aspects manifest.



  • Otherwise, your analysis wasmostly spot on. She is most certainly the free spirit and rebels against being tied down. Her feeling overborn upon is an artifact of her own making in my view, however. Doing what you want, when you want, however you want, without regard to how your actions affect the feelings of those close to you, is simply irresponsible and creates tension between you and those you love.



  • Some of problem here is I don't understand your terminology.



  • I'm not sure how much credence you lend to magi astrology, but they are proponents of the mystic triangle, and I think that is where I found it. Because I am so new to this, my search has been very scatterbrained and so I can't be sure. It involves a quincunx, a square, and a trine in tight aspect. If you take a quincunx and square it in the opposite direction the triangle will be completed with a sextile. That is what I cointed "mini" mystic triangle. The mini trine is a trine connected by two sextiles and is supposed to actually be a more focused version of the grand trine because it has a focal point and sextiles are better at communicating energies amongst planets. There is a prominent mini trine conjuncting my t-square in my natal pattern.



  • I'm going to upload a photo of the pattern I saw. The reason I attribute significance to it is symmetry and placement. Both "mini" mystic triangles are pointing to opposing ends of our conjoind axis', and her sun and my moon form the apex of these triangles in opposition. I also find it significant that both of these triangles involve a luminary and the respective chart ruler. the symmetry is not perfect because my chart ruler is a little out of place, but the spot where it conjoins her moon is in almost perfect position to form this pattern and would lead to actual mystic triangles being formed between her Uranus and that spot. There is an actual mystic triangle formed which isn't drawn between her Mars, my Sun, and my Moon. If you take the point where my Jupiter and her moon conjoin, the place where they resonate, the pattern is perfect and even more intricate because it completes a larger pattern with mystic triangles. Obviously, I am very green at interpreting charts, but the symmetry speaks to me, and the fact that it is all occuring on a mutual axis between us is hard to ignore.


Log in to reply