Hanswolfgang, insight?

  • Boyfriend of 3 yrs--living with him for the last 2. I traveled back and forth (4 hr.drive) 2 times a month for work. (self-employed) The last yr. I was with him 17 days and back at my apt. for 5, then with him for 17. All my furniture after a divorce was at his home--basically I made his home "ours". I painted, wallpapered, stained and varnished woodwork, helped make a fireplace, a bar (my design and idea) etc. etc. Plus outside, planted over 150 hostas and loads of other flowers and bushes. We were to be married after we had dated 6 months and he said I could move in.

    We had our ups and down. He's laid back, I'm the pursuer, and a clinger--but didn't realize my dangerous tendencies until to late. I was also moody and very emotional. He avoids confrontations at all costs--withdraws. He said people should be happy 99% of the time. I say "Good Luck!"

    He finally bought the engagement ring last Oct. But never proposed. Had issues about it around Val. day. He said maybe we rushed things. WHAT! So I bought books on how to restore our relationship. I thought they were working. But in May a son from prison moved in, and in June an emotionally defiant son with 2 small children moved back home. (kicked out by g/f) But our relationship was better--or so I thought.

    June 23--our 3 year ann. we went away for 3 days. Had a fantastic time. He left for a golf outing with the boys. Met another woman. We went for a 5 day vacation over the 4th of July. He proposed to me on July5. Now he had hinted he was going to propose--so I knew it was comming. But I pressured him in the beginning of June about it.

    So on his birthday 7/29/56 before the party, we got in a big fight. Long story. What he did was wrong I feel, but as usual, I over-reacted--badly. Caused a scene, and claimed I was leaving. He said ma;ybe that would be good if I left for 3 wks. WHAT!! Never had been broke up before. I said I wasn't leaving until I was scheduled to leave, 12 days from then. So HE left. Never did that before....came to get clothes for work, etc. I cried.

    Aug. 5, it dawned on me he must have another woman. Ipaid for his cell. Looked at records. Yep, he met her the week before he proposed-he even called her from my mom and dads home during the 4th, the night before he proposed. I called his work...he wasn't working that night, BUSTED!

    Aug. and until Sept. 26, I never went 2 wks. with out seeing him. at first I told him I would forgive him but he had to quit seeing her. He said o.k., but never quit. Pretty soon, I WAS THE AFFAIR, and he was calling her when I was at his home. I was doing everything to keep him. He kept saying, I'm just not sure yet. Give me a little more time. I love you, not her. The classic string along. But I believed him

    Then 4 wks ago, I called him at work (after being with him for 6 days-he had to leave one day and one night to be with her, WHILE I slept in HIS bed) to beg for reassurance. Everyone said he was lying to me. HE DIDN'T WANT ME! He then told me over the phone, that I was obsessed, that everyone breaks up, and he didn't want to see me for 2 months (so he could miss me) and he'd call me in a week.I couldn't belive it. I said I thought I was giving him time to get over HER!!! 3 wks. later....

    When I first met him,(June 2007) it was instant connection. Thought it was an act of "God". We use to laugh about it. Really, truly thought it was meant to be. I was coming out of a 20yr. old loveless marriage (no sex for the last 15 yrs) and he had been divorced for 15 yrs. and never had a relationship longer than 9 months. But hardly without a woman. He had just broke up with someone 2 wks. before.

    Now we haven't seen each other for one month. Went NO CONTACT. He started calling last wk. about a court case, and I wouldn't answer the phone. Last Sat. he got a card from me saying that I couldn't talk or see him since his last phone call--the pain was too much. I also wrote down some memories since 2007 of the fun things we did in Oct. (Last yr. engagement ring and picked shells in Florida for our reception tables!!!)

    He called after he got the card,(I didn't answer) and started to cry. He said he really screwed up. He said, "I have to do the right thing." (whatever that is....) He said, so many good memories, so many memories. I do think of you. I do miss you, and you know I do love you." He'd cry and say, ahhh Baby, I'm so sorry. etc. etc. But he never said he wanted me back. 3 a.m. I called him at work. He told me he didn't have as much in common with her. When I asked him point blank, if you had to chose her or me right this minute, who would you chose. He said YOU. (what else could he say???) He said he call on Mon. (He was gonna see her Sun.)

    So on Monday he calls and I could tell everything was different again!!! Much cooler. . I didn't answer. He left v.m. He said, I was thinking about you the other day, and all the memories. Hoping someday maybe we'll get together again, I'm not sure when, cant give you an exact date or time, maybe Christmas.I'm not sure where things are going with Michelle. I do miss you, I do think about you and I always will love you. (hmmm...not good)

    So I was not a happy camper...again...I called back and we talked until he had to go to work. 45 min. He said that he had more in common with me, than her. But they never have any confrontations. Heck no, Itls only been 3 months--infatuation. He's always running to her house an hour away, where I live 4 hours away and always drove to HIS house.

    Plus I found pics of them on the camera--porn type.In our house 2 days before I was there. Leather, whips, etc. Her whole back is tatooed, and a butterfly on her front "private" area!!! He always HATED tatoos!!! Did I tell you she was RICH also. Half million (or more) house on a big lake with boat and all the toys. He's really tight with his money, and even tho I didn't have any, always had to chip in with vacations, and even bought paint for his home. He hardly gave me any gas money for always driving up there, soooo yea....money important. And she pays for almost everything!!!!

    So I called, Said I couldn't wait for him forever. He said he knew. I asked him for a date that he would be comfortable with. He said Christmas, I asked for Dec. 5. (I mean, who wants to be dumped just before Christmas.) Actually, I feel like I've been dumped over and over, then he reels me back in.

    Does he mean what he says??? Is he REALLY confused. Or does he really know what he wants and just can't tell me. He is a very weak person in saying NO. He's an enabler to his sons--big time! No is not in his vocabulary. He always wants to be the good guy. I've been seeing a therapist, and reading lots of books about my insecurities, moodiness, and "control" issues. (I din't realize I was controling, I thought they were just my NEEDS) I would love to get another chance. I can't promise I'd be perfect. But I'd try.

    Things we have in common: Biking, walking,traveling, DANCING, working on house projects, working n yard projects (I mowed his yard all last year, he never did it once--so we could play when he ws off) We traveled to the beach, We went to the mountains, we played cards, and badmitton, and went to church. We made Christmas cookies together. We did EVERYTHING together.

    With her--she's totally opposite. Where I was a one on one person, she is much more social. She likes the bars (which is what he was into, until he met me) stock cars (which he liked, not me) and football (packers--not me) So everything he liked, and I didn't, she fills that spot. But we had more of a family kinda thing with my puppy. AND we did have GREAT sex, so he didn't need her for that!!!

    He asked if he could call in a few wks. I'm thinking about not answering, but sending him another card full of ""memories". And really think about "forever". I read somewhere: Don't marry the first person you can live with, marry the first person you can't live without!

    I know I made lots of mistakes. (I do over anaylize things, and I do talk alot, like I write) He also always said that he liked that I was a talker...unlike ex-husband...yuck....

    He is the first person in my 55 yrs, that I have been crazily in love with. Always willing to make love. Willing to hang his clothes on the line, instead of washer. Willing to wash dishes by hand, and keep the heat in the dead of winter at 64 degrees. I did try. I thought it was MEANT to be.

    Is he gone forever??? Will someone who doesn't cry and isn't over-emotional, nonconfrontational, just a good time bar, and bed partner, WIN over someone he's been with for over 3 yrs?. who was a partner with him in every way? Who was painting the hallway on Christmas morning, making his home BEAUTIFUL....who he even claims we have "more in common"...will he chose her over me????

    Everyone says he's made his choice already. Who's he seeing, and who hasn't he seen in a month, and doesn't want to see for over another month. I told him "Actions speak louder than words"

    Am I living in a fantasy world?

    I will go up there Dec. 1 and pack my van full of all the pictures on the living room wall. (all mine) I will take the end table, and the lamps and all the nic-nacs. Why should his home look nice for the holidays for her and not me? Then in the spring I will rent a moving van, and get the big stuff--plus all the stone statuaries from the gardens......geesh I did alot of work on that home.. all the time and energy and love I put into it. I guess that is why I demanded all his affection and time...I felt I deserved it.

    Should I keep a postitive attitude. Or get ready for the enevitable. The last thing he said to me was, "NO, I don't want you to quit loving me".

    Sorry this is a book. I'm so hurt, so empty, I told him, I would leave it in Gods hands, if he wants us back together again....I've lost 22 pounds and I can't sleep. I'm not that busy at work because for 3 years I was gone.....it's just me and my dog...alone... Hope, or no hope...Thanks all for responding...

    Him: 7/29/56

    Me: 12/24/54

  • Girl move on with your life, I am sure if you look back you will be able to identify the reg flags.

    This man is not happy with himself how can he be happy with anyone else? He will leave this woman for someone else also.

    You seem like such a nice lady...I hope things get better for you.

    Light and love


    PS - ": Don't marry the first person you can live with, marry the first person you can't live without!"

    No one should ever feel they can't live without a person. A partnership should be 2 whole people coming together not two pieces of a puzzle.

  • Realitynut,

    Does he mean what he says??? No.

    Is he REALLY confused: No.

    Or does he really know what he wants and just can't tell me: No.

    Is he gone forever??? No.

    Will someone who doesn't cry and isn't over-emotional, nonconfrontational, just a good time bar, and bed partner, WIN over someone he's been with for over 3 yrs? Yes.

    who was a partner with him in every way? no.

    Who was painting the hallway on Christmas morning, making his home BEAUTIFUL....who he even claims we have "more in common"...will he chose her over me???? No.

    Am I living in a fantasy world? No.

    Why should his home look nice for the holidays for her and not me? Because although grieving and wounded by the agent of darkness, you still help others to safety with the strength of a horse.

    Should I keep a postitive attitude: Yes.

    Or get ready for the enevitable: No.

    Thanks all for responding...: just be like a rope-walker, balance yourself, balance him with someone else, going tho and fro.

    Him: 7/29/56: this means conversation, communication, sharing ideas and cooperation on a communication level. However, it is also known as fear and arguing. He may feel compelled to talk to others and to establish lines of communication. He should look deeper into himself and he may discover an inner conflict between his desire to be alone and to be with others. Talking to others may shed more light on who he is. He should just make sure that he is being honest with himself.

    Each moment is new, each day is new, each person

    is new. Hence to compare is one of the most stupid

    things you can do. And you are taught to compare. You

    are continuously comparing yourself either as being

    superior to others or as being inferior to others.

    Because of this nonsense of comparison you have created

    two complexes: the superiority complex and the

    inferiority complex. And everybody suffers from either

    the one or the other. It is very rare to find a person

    who is neither suffering from superiority complex nor

    from inferiority complex, who simply is whosoever he

    is, incomparably, uniquely himself.

    That has to be your way. Then great

    joy arises. Then great is the benediction because all

    psychological complexes start disappearing, a great

    clarity happens, all clouds disperse and the sun shines

    so brightly. Life takes on a totally new colour, a new

    shape, a new fragrance. It starts moving in a new


    The mind which is jealous, envious, ambitious,

    greedy, violent, is bound to be bitter because these

    are all poisons. The moment you drop all these poisons

    your whole being becomes full of a sweetness. Then love

    is there, compassion is there, sharing is there, the

    joy of life is there, gratitude is there, prayer is

    there; these are all sweet phenomena. And the sweeter

    you become, the closer you come to god; the more bitter

    you are, the farther away you are.

    So let this be the criterion: judge whatsoever you

    are doing by whether it is helping to make you more

    bitter or helping to make you more sweet, whether it

    will release poisons into your being or nectar. All

    depends on you.

  • hanswolfgang,

    Questions about contridictory responses, please...

    (her) 1. will someone who doesn't cry...win over someone he's been with for over 3 yrs.--YES

    (me) 2. who was a partner with him in every way--NO

    (her) 3. will he chose her over me???--NO

    Am I living in a fantasy world? (meaning thinking he will chose me?) NO

    So basically I was hoping for some insight on who he was going to choose Dec.1--her or me.

    You said: Her-YES



    Me in fantasy world? -NO

    So what I got was: 2 yes for her, and 2 yes for me. Hmmm....could you explain? Maybe my questions were confusing...

    Thanks....anyone else like to comment?

    Like he told me, he has more in common with me----but they have not ever argued.

  • gypsydreams,

    I hate to tell ya, but I was the problem in our relationship, most of the time. Sure, he enabled his sons, and we fought aabout that. He was buddies with his ex-wife--I was suppose to think of her as his "sister". But I was stupid over the little things. Any little thing that would upset me, I'd get my feelings hurt, then clam up. At night (usually at night we fought, don't know why, or to if I drank at all) I'd start questioning him about stuff, I'd cry, and say "why don't you love me", he always said he did, but that whatever he said or did was "never enough". Now that we've been apart almost 3 months, I've done alot of reading and online, and I've found out about so much of my destructive behaviors. Most have stems from abandement issues, control issues, neediness, etc. I'm surprised he stayed with me 3 yrs. Of course I was living with him---and he has problems "saying NO". He tried to break up with me, but I wasn't listening. I thought he was just mad at a fight at the time. I always said things I didn't mean when we fought.....so I thought he was too. He always forgave, if I asked.

    This woman was just his way out. He thought OMG, I'm getting married June 11, I don't know if I want this. OMG, adult kids have just moved back into my house--how can I handle this.

    I feel she was an escape. He did have a life before me. I was the one who made HIM my life. TOTALLY and completely. I never once, not once in all the fights (that I almost 100%started) did I ever think that I didn't love him. I just thought that he would love me forever--flaws and all. Temper tantrums, I'd go into the other bedroom at night, hoping he'd "come for me" to prove he loved me. At first he would. But then he quit. He didn't want to baby me, he said. Oh, if only I could do it all over again. I really thought he was the one for me. I was so childish, and demanding. But loving too.

    I had been married 20 yrs. to a person I had NO love for. We ended up very seldom fighting, because I didn't care. We didn't talk. We didn't interact. We didn't love. I had no expectations. I had expectatons galore with this guy. Way too much, I it got me dumped.

    So you see, it was me with the red flags. He had red flags in the fact he was divorced 15 yrs. only dating girls for 9 mo. or so, but he was even tempered---just not into commitments. I was the pain in the butt.

    I wish he'd give me another chance. But i doubt that will happen. I just feel like I lost my whole life. MY future. Iworked so hard on his home. I've lost now 2 homes that I've worked on all my life. I had a huge victorian home during my marriage, that I restored. It was on mother day walks, and on Christmas trolly tours. I poured 20 yrs into that home. When I met Dan, his house was a wreck except for the kitchen, which he was just finishing. Now we were on the LAST room which we were suppose to finish this coming winter! Last yr. i even poured cement in his front hallway, while he was at work. We then tiled his front hall. I had tiled before, he hadn't. SHE gets the finished project, that I worked so hard on. Why is that fair. Can't he see how much I loved him. Can't he see how much I tried. I gave so much....

    I was thinking the other day, that I have less now at 55, then when I did when I was 29. Everything feels so hopless. July 25 we were at the beach on lake Michigan having the most wonderful time. Then we went biking. i told him it was one of the happiest days of my life. Then only a week later, my life turned upside down.

    I didn't get married until I was 30. I know what is out there _-NOTHING! I was happy and upbeat when I met him. He was everyting I was looking for..everything. I WAS the IMPERFECT one...

    He may not be perfect, but who is...I just wish he'd give me another chance. I know in my heart, we would still be together if it wasn't for this other woman. And the fact she has $$ doesnt' help.

    Words of advice,? do I really just move on? Is he really not the one for me?

  • The other woman and her money isn't the problem, he is. I think you should move on and stop blaming yourself or waiting for him to make a decision you will only torture yourself emotionally if you wait for him to make a decision.

    You can still find someone who is better suited for you.

    It takes two to make a relationship work. Maybe try to work on your issues ( You seem to understand them well) while you are single so when you meet someone things wont repeat themselves.

  • Realitynut,

    When I started reading this thread there was just something I could identify with but to be honest, this was me maybe 20 years ago. I always felt insecure in my relationships, I, too would pour ALL of myself in to making the guy happy and for me, that made me happy. What I didn't understand was that I made it too easy for the men in my life and I would always be dumped and he would leave me for another woman.

    My stepfather was a psychologist and he would tell me "Hun, you are making things too easy, you aren't a challenge." He was right. I see a lot of similarities in your personality and mine, the difference is I took time out and started working on myself, spiritually I am at a very good place now. You stayed in a loveless marriage the last 15 years of a 20 year marriage and Dan was everything your ex-husband wasn't. Your emotional instability is just one part of why he left. He knows you love him, even too much. You aren't a challenge and he knows you will always be waiting for him so he is having his cake and eating it too. He is stringing you along sweetie. Why? Because he can, because you are still pursuing him even knowing he is making a life with another woman. Don't compare yourself to this woman, she is not the issue. Does she even know he is communicating with you and telling you how he feels? Sounds like you are both being played.

    My deepest feeling is to tell you to get all of your belongings from his house at the same time, don't go back later. Also, don't go there alone, take some men with you for the moving. Make a clean break and then stand your ground. STOP being a victim and take control of your life once and for all and don't do this to win him back, do this because this is what you need for YOU!!! If you could love yourself half as much as you love him, you'd be a very happy woman and draw many people to you, men and women.

    Dan isn't the kind of guy who likes to be alone, he will jump from one woman to another, to the point of already having one lined up before he breaks up with the current girlfriend. He is not in a loving relationship with her but it is comfortable and this is what he prefers at the moment. He has some emotional issues of his own and that is why he is trying to make everyone happy but then he isn't is he? He is living a lie.

    PLEASE, get involved with a project that makes you happy and feel good about yourself, one that doesn't involve him. Forget about what you don't have at your age, stop comparing and deal with what you DO have, be grateful that you have a roof over your head and food to eat. You have such a gift for renovating and gardening, I think if you volunteered your services to a local womens shelter to improve the landscape or to re-do the interior, this would bring you so must satisfaction to help others. YOU need this honey, you need to let go of Dan for now and focus on making you happy.

    We here in the Forums at Tarot offer each other support and it's a great place to make online friends. I have made some here that I will be meeting in person, they are very special to me. I notice that you articulate yourself very well and it is nice to see that you are getting therapy to work on yourself. I wish you the best of everything.


  • gypsy, that is great advice, if she doesn't work on herself history will repeat itself.

  • Wonderful advice Notshy!!! Nice pic too 🙂

  • Realitynut,

    2 yes for her, and 2 yes for me. Hmmm....could you explain? it ends in a tie, in a draw.

    It is as it should be. Everyone should follow his/her heart, driving to someone, he/she loves.

    By the way, the answers are not contradictory, you are contradictory, he is contradictory, life is contradictary, the answers are just mirroring that.

    There is nothing to do, all is finished. He is no longer interested. Remain in the moment, there are no projects to do. Be utterly empty. Look at the rising sun.... and that is the moment, to become yourself.

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